MAP-M 6+ in 5th grade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So MCPS will provide guidance like 5th graders score 250+ (just as example) in Spring MAP Math 6+ test can choose algebra 1 at 6th grade? Or how should it work? I am sure just depending on individual school is not a good solution. MCPS should provide the guidance for all middle school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is run by ineffective and unsupportive leaders who don’t actual care about the schools or kids. Our school fought back when the memo arrived and yet no one at the top cared or listened. We are told to follow orders even though the decision is not good for kids. It’s awful and parents should be reaching out to the math dept and directors. They don’t listen to teachers.

Why would the people at the top even think this was helpful? Could this provide a better indication of who is ready for Algebra in 6th than the current methods which seem to be up to each school are inconsistent?

You didn't hear this from me but all the noise about the WPS offering Algebra in 6th to students has raised equity concerns among the top brass. Apparently, the first step in addressing it is to collect accurate metrics by using the 6th-grade MAP-M at the end of 5th.

It all makes sense now.

Should. Won't. Limits their options.

As the parent of an older kid and looking back, I am not convinced that anyone needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade. For reference, my kid had a 260 at the end of 3rd grade and took Algebra in 7th. Finishing HS having taken Calc BC in 10th, Linear Alg, AP stats, and Vector Calculus. That's plenty of math!

Having access to Algebra in 6th enables kids to better on MS contest math that requires knowledge of both Algebra and Geometry. Also, seems like it would provide a boost to MAP-M since that's about exposure which in turn impacts magnet admissions. It's all kind of a racket about how people like to improve their kid's odds by hoarding these opportunities.

If you are taking Algebra in 6th, your MAP is Blair-ready before you even take these classes.

That may be. However, there are very few SMACS slots compared to demand for them, and admissions is by competitive review -- those deemed best get in, and having an even higher MAP score contributes to an applicant's profile for consideration (only one factor, but it's not like they'd take the lower-scoring candidate, all other factors being equal). It's not general-qualification-with-lottery, as they made elementary and middle magnet programs.

Can't say for sure, but I don't think admissions committee considers an "absurdly high" MAP over an "extremely high" MAP. They've been trained enough in "equity" to know to disregard that, and they know that MAP's ceiling is far below Blair's expectations. They don't care whether your kid is far above mediocre Geometry vs far above mediocre Algebra 2. They happily take kids who are far above mediocre Algebra 1, and put them in Geometry class. The raison d'etre of SMACS Magnet is that regular schools and regular tests like MAP don't meet these kids' potential.

Programs like SMACS don't have enough seats to take everybody who would benefit from them. Why wouldn't they take the higher MAP if all other factors were equal? Families looking to have a better chance may take that slight edge for their children that would be conferred by exposure to courses a year earlier than MCPS provides within their standard acceleration options.

It’s not hard to learn algebra at or before 6th grade outside.

Unless you don't have the family support structure for outside enrichment. $$$ -> support -> early/additional exposure -> higher score -> increased chance of admission.

Why would students without family support be able to survive the SMAC program?
Family plays a critical role in children’s education.

Ever see Stand and Deliver? Anecdotal, but the premise is well supported. It's not that a reasonable proportion don't have capability, but nurturing that ability/meeting that need requires:

1) Identification methodologies that evidence capability rather than relying on performance, and

2) Adequate system-delivered supports.

The one requires more of a philosophy shift from lip-service equity to truer equity (that doesn't kow-tow to special interests, monied or otherwise). The other is more about prioritizing $; expanding program capacity to match the need would be a part of that (population has grown far more than slots, and more were needed to begin with).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So MCPS will provide guidance like 5th graders score 250+ (just as example) in Spring MAP Math 6+ test can choose algebra 1 at 6th grade? Or how should it work? I am sure just depending on individual school is not a good solution. MCPS should provide the guidance for all middle school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is run by ineffective and unsupportive leaders who don’t actual care about the schools or kids. Our school fought back when the memo arrived and yet no one at the top cared or listened. We are told to follow orders even though the decision is not good for kids. It’s awful and parents should be reaching out to the math dept and directors. They don’t listen to teachers.

Why would the people at the top even think this was helpful? Could this provide a better indication of who is ready for Algebra in 6th than the current methods which seem to be up to each school are inconsistent?

You didn't hear this from me but all the noise about the WPS offering Algebra in 6th to students has raised equity concerns among the top brass. Apparently, the first step in addressing it is to collect accurate metrics by using the 6th-grade MAP-M at the end of 5th.

It all makes sense now.

Should. Won't. Limits their options.

As the parent of an older kid and looking back, I am not convinced that anyone needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade. For reference, my kid had a 260 at the end of 3rd grade and took Algebra in 7th. Finishing HS having taken Calc BC in 10th, Linear Alg, AP stats, and Vector Calculus. That's plenty of math!

Having access to Algebra in 6th enables kids to better on MS contest math that requires knowledge of both Algebra and Geometry. Also, seems like it would provide a boost to MAP-M since that's about exposure which in turn impacts magnet admissions. It's all kind of a racket about how people like to improve their kid's odds by hoarding these opportunities.

If you are taking Algebra in 6th, your MAP is Blair-ready before you even take these classes.

That may be. However, there are very few SMACS slots compared to demand for them, and admissions is by competitive review -- those deemed best get in, and having an even higher MAP score contributes to an applicant's profile for consideration (only one factor, but it's not like they'd take the lower-scoring candidate, all other factors being equal). It's not general-qualification-with-lottery, as they made elementary and middle magnet programs.

Can't say for sure, but I don't think admissions committee considers an "absurdly high" MAP over an "extremely high" MAP. They've been trained enough in "equity" to know to disregard that, and they know that MAP's ceiling is far below Blair's expectations. They don't care whether your kid is far above mediocre Geometry vs far above mediocre Algebra 2. They happily take kids who are far above mediocre Algebra 1, and put them in Geometry class. The raison d'etre of SMACS Magnet is that regular schools and regular tests like MAP don't meet these kids' potential.

Programs like SMACS don't have enough seats to take everybody who would benefit from them. Why wouldn't they take the higher MAP if all other factors were equal? Families looking to have a better chance may take that slight edge for their children that would be conferred by exposure to courses a year earlier than MCPS provides within their standard acceleration options.

It’s not hard to learn algebra at or before 6th grade outside.

Unless you don't have the family support structure for outside enrichment. $$$ -> support -> early/additional exposure -> higher score -> increased chance of admission.

Why would students without family support be able to survive the SMAC program?
Family plays a critical role in children’s education.

Ever see Stand and Deliver? Anecdotal, but the premise is well supported. It's not that a reasonable proportion don't have capability, but nurturing that ability/meeting that need requires:

1) Identification methodologies that evidence capability rather than relying on performance, and

2) Adequate system-delivered supports.

The one requires more of a philosophy shift from lip-service equity to truer equity (that doesn't kow-tow to special interests, monied or otherwise). The other is more about prioritizing $; expanding program capacity to match the need would be a part of that (population has grown far more than slots, and more were needed to begin with).

Great movie based on a true story. Can't really undervalue the teacher's dedication. I always felt he was the catalyst/ I've known a few amazing teachers, but he seemed beyond dedicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So MCPS will provide guidance like 5th graders score 250+ (just as example) in Spring MAP Math 6+ test can choose algebra 1 at 6th grade? Or how should it work? I am sure just depending on individual school is not a good solution. MCPS should provide the guidance for all middle school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is run by ineffective and unsupportive leaders who don’t actual care about the schools or kids. Our school fought back when the memo arrived and yet no one at the top cared or listened. We are told to follow orders even though the decision is not good for kids. It’s awful and parents should be reaching out to the math dept and directors. They don’t listen to teachers.

Why would the people at the top even think this was helpful? Could this provide a better indication of who is ready for Algebra in 6th than the current methods which seem to be up to each school are inconsistent?

You didn't hear this from me but all the noise about the WPS offering Algebra in 6th to students has raised equity concerns among the top brass. Apparently, the first step in addressing it is to collect accurate metrics by using the 6th-grade MAP-M at the end of 5th.

It all makes sense now.

Should. Won't. Limits their options.

As the parent of an older kid and looking back, I am not convinced that anyone needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade. For reference, my kid had a 260 at the end of 3rd grade and took Algebra in 7th. Finishing HS having taken Calc BC in 10th, Linear Alg, AP stats, and Vector Calculus. That's plenty of math!

Having access to Algebra in 6th enables kids to better on MS contest math that requires knowledge of both Algebra and Geometry. Also, seems like it would provide a boost to MAP-M since that's about exposure which in turn impacts magnet admissions. It's all kind of a racket about how people like to improve their kid's odds by hoarding these opportunities.

If you are taking Algebra in 6th, your MAP is Blair-ready before you even take these classes.

That may be. However, there are very few SMACS slots compared to demand for them, and admissions is by competitive review -- those deemed best get in, and having an even higher MAP score contributes to an applicant's profile for consideration (only one factor, but it's not like they'd take the lower-scoring candidate, all other factors being equal). It's not general-qualification-with-lottery, as they made elementary and middle magnet programs.

Can't say for sure, but I don't think admissions committee considers an "absurdly high" MAP over an "extremely high" MAP. They've been trained enough in "equity" to know to disregard that, and they know that MAP's ceiling is far below Blair's expectations. They don't care whether your kid is far above mediocre Geometry vs far above mediocre Algebra 2. They happily take kids who are far above mediocre Algebra 1, and put them in Geometry class. The raison d'etre of SMACS Magnet is that regular schools and regular tests like MAP don't meet these kids' potential.

Programs like SMACS don't have enough seats to take everybody who would benefit from them. Why wouldn't they take the higher MAP if all other factors were equal? Families looking to have a better chance may take that slight edge for their children that would be conferred by exposure to courses a year earlier than MCPS provides within their standard acceleration options.

It’s not hard to learn algebra at or before 6th grade outside.

Unless you don't have the family support structure for outside enrichment. $$$ -> support -> early/additional exposure -> higher score -> increased chance of admission.

Why would students without family support be able to survive the SMAC program?
Family plays a critical role in children’s education.

Ever see Stand and Deliver? Anecdotal, but the premise is well supported. It's not that a reasonable proportion don't have capability, but nurturing that ability/meeting that need requires:

1) Identification methodologies that evidence capability rather than relying on performance, and

2) Adequate system-delivered supports.

The one requires more of a philosophy shift from lip-service equity to truer equity (that doesn't kow-tow to special interests, monied or otherwise). The other is more about prioritizing $; expanding program capacity to match the need would be a part of that (population has grown far more than slots, and more were needed to begin with).

Great movie based on a true story. Can't really undervalue the teacher's dedication. I always felt he was the catalyst/ I've known a few amazing teachers, but he seemed beyond dedicated.

Escalante worked way overtime with students, and that was only in math, to get them up to honors level track. It would take a lot more years of time and support (almost boarding school) to do that for a full curriculum up to SMACS magnet level.
Also it's unclear how much family support those students had. Could be that the parents were supportive but the wider peer group and teachers were not, until Escalante changed the culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid's score growth has been smooth from ES to MS. Looking at the score history there's no clue where the switch from 2-5 to 6+ was.

Im guessing you didn’t have an outlier kid? Kids scoring in the 270s in the 3-5 version usually see a big drop. Kids scoring in the 240s or below may not.

Mine didn't drop, but does study next-level math over the summer, so maybe that covered the gap.

You had a kid scoring in the 270s in 5th who increased from that in 6th because of studying over the summer?

I can't prove it's "because", but besides that, yes. We've done Beast Academy / AoPS material at home since 2nd grade, including summers.

Spring scores were 240s in 2nd, with ~10pts/yr growth every year 2nd-6th. (Interpolating to estimate the covid-missing Spring 2020 score)

There is some jitter with the Fall and Winter scores, probably because my kid likes testing, and so puzzled and educated-guessed on material not studied yet, and there are multiple choice questions, and the rest is short.

So what were the actual scores end of 5th and beginning of 6?

276 and 282

282 in the 6+ MAP suggests strong knowledge of both algebra 1 and geometry. I don’t buy it.

Then you should "buy" this:
https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Math-Middle-School-IMLEM/dp/1453814450 (written by the father of infamous FTX/Alameda crypto fraudster Caroline Ellison!)

Or this:
https://artofproblemsolving.com/store/book/competition-math

Or this:
https://artofproblemsolving.com/store/book/intro-geometry

Or this:
https://artofproblemsolving.com/mathcounts_trainer

Or show up for math team practice twice a week all year long.

Math team practice twice a week in 5th grade? Oh my! How the other half live! I like my kids to have a childhood - they are self motivated and good kids but no, I’m not pushing them. And guess what? Even without the pressure cooker at home they still get into the Blair magnet!

Math team practice started in 6th grade. So that was actually after the fall MAP. Previous study was at home.
Or maybe it's, as NWEA says "Gifted students may have an intuitive grasp of math concepts and, since the test is not timed, they may actually figure some things out on their own."
https://connection.nwea.org/s/article/Transition-student-from-2-5-to-6-Reading-or-Math-test-1405101729354?language=en_US

(I don''t know about "gifted", though. When I was a kid, a teacher once told the class, "Gifted is when your parents give you a Lamborghini for your 16th birthday".)

Not all of us are fortunate enough to be able to support a commute to Blair or TPMS, so we enrich at home. DC seems to have plenty of time for it, since there is no commute and perhaps since free-play screen time is limited to under an hour per day, and DC doesn't know how to sh*tpost on DCUM like me .

Maybe DC just learns a lot in a little time.
"Guess what?" Some kids are curious and self-motivated to watch 3B1B on YouTube, and sometimes wake up on Saturday morning and prove a theorem before breakfast, and ask fascinating questions, and sometimes even write a personal essay in school about how they enjoy sharing a hobby with an engaged parent.

DP

I had never heard of 3B1B! Thank you for the suggestion. I think my kid would love it.

Also check out numberphile and the SoME playlists

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So MCPS will provide guidance like 5th graders score 250+ (just as example) in Spring MAP Math 6+ test can choose algebra 1 at 6th grade? Or how should it work? I am sure just depending on individual school is not a good solution. MCPS should provide the guidance for all middle school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is run by ineffective and unsupportive leaders who don’t actual care about the schools or kids. Our school fought back when the memo arrived and yet no one at the top cared or listened. We are told to follow orders even though the decision is not good for kids. It’s awful and parents should be reaching out to the math dept and directors. They don’t listen to teachers.

Why would the people at the top even think this was helpful? Could this provide a better indication of who is ready for Algebra in 6th than the current methods which seem to be up to each school are inconsistent?

You didn't hear this from me but all the noise about the WPS offering Algebra in 6th to students has raised equity concerns among the top brass. Apparently, the first step in addressing it is to collect accurate metrics by using the 6th-grade MAP-M at the end of 5th.

It all makes sense now.

Should. Won't. Limits their options.

As the parent of an older kid and looking back, I am not convinced that anyone needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade. For reference, my kid had a 260 at the end of 3rd grade and took Algebra in 7th. Finishing HS having taken Calc BC in 10th, Linear Alg, AP stats, and Vector Calculus. That's plenty of math!

What is the point of doing this much math in high school vs just going onto college?

College usually require living independently and a greater level of executive function that most highschoolers are capable of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So MCPS will provide guidance like 5th graders score 250+ (just as example) in Spring MAP Math 6+ test can choose algebra 1 at 6th grade? Or how should it work? I am sure just depending on individual school is not a good solution. MCPS should provide the guidance for all middle school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is run by ineffective and unsupportive leaders who don’t actual care about the schools or kids. Our school fought back when the memo arrived and yet no one at the top cared or listened. We are told to follow orders even though the decision is not good for kids. It’s awful and parents should be reaching out to the math dept and directors. They don’t listen to teachers.

Why would the people at the top even think this was helpful? Could this provide a better indication of who is ready for Algebra in 6th than the current methods which seem to be up to each school are inconsistent?

You didn't hear this from me but all the noise about the WPS offering Algebra in 6th to students has raised equity concerns among the top brass. Apparently, the first step in addressing it is to collect accurate metrics by using the 6th-grade MAP-M at the end of 5th.

It all makes sense now.

Should. Won't. Limits their options.

As the parent of an older kid and looking back, I am not convinced that anyone needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade. For reference, my kid had a 260 at the end of 3rd grade and took Algebra in 7th. Finishing HS having taken Calc BC in 10th, Linear Alg, AP stats, and Vector Calculus. That's plenty of math!

What is the point of doing this much math in high school vs just going onto college?

Just wanted to point out that there are still many paths to extensive math without it.

Is it really realistic to take admission to this kind of program for granted? My impression is that it's competitive, so it's not a good idea to expect admission without planning for the case where the student isn't admitted.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone seen the Reports on Parentvue yet? When are they posted?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So MCPS will provide guidance like 5th graders score 250+ (just as example) in Spring MAP Math 6+ test can choose algebra 1 at 6th grade? Or how should it work? I am sure just depending on individual school is not a good solution. MCPS should provide the guidance for all middle school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is run by ineffective and unsupportive leaders who don’t actual care about the schools or kids. Our school fought back when the memo arrived and yet no one at the top cared or listened. We are told to follow orders even though the decision is not good for kids. It’s awful and parents should be reaching out to the math dept and directors. They don’t listen to teachers.

Why would the people at the top even think this was helpful? Could this provide a better indication of who is ready for Algebra in 6th than the current methods which seem to be up to each school are inconsistent?

You didn't hear this from me but all the noise about the WPS offering Algebra in 6th to students has raised equity concerns among the top brass. Apparently, the first step in addressing it is to collect accurate metrics by using the 6th-grade MAP-M at the end of 5th.

It all makes sense now.

Should. Won't. Limits their options.

As the parent of an older kid and looking back, I am not convinced that anyone needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade. For reference, my kid had a 260 at the end of 3rd grade and took Algebra in 7th. Finishing HS having taken Calc BC in 10th, Linear Alg, AP stats, and Vector Calculus. That's plenty of math!

What is the point of doing this much math in high school vs just going onto college?

Just wanted to point out that there are still many paths to extensive math without it.

Is it really realistic to take admission to this kind of program for granted? My impression is that it's competitive, so it's not a good idea to expect admission without planning for the case where the student isn't admitted.

That is correct. Even without SMCS, it would be possible to double up on some math and/or take in the summer. My kid loves math but really was topped out by end of HS. Message here is to think ahead. Nice to be able to brag that your kid is in Algebra in 6th but do you really want them in Calculus in 10th grade and then having to take 2 even harder math classes after that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So MCPS will provide guidance like 5th graders score 250+ (just as example) in Spring MAP Math 6+ test can choose algebra 1 at 6th grade? Or how should it work? I am sure just depending on individual school is not a good solution. MCPS should provide the guidance for all middle school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is run by ineffective and unsupportive leaders who don’t actual care about the schools or kids. Our school fought back when the memo arrived and yet no one at the top cared or listened. We are told to follow orders even though the decision is not good for kids. It’s awful and parents should be reaching out to the math dept and directors. They don’t listen to teachers.

Why would the people at the top even think this was helpful? Could this provide a better indication of who is ready for Algebra in 6th than the current methods which seem to be up to each school are inconsistent?

You didn't hear this from me but all the noise about the WPS offering Algebra in 6th to students has raised equity concerns among the top brass. Apparently, the first step in addressing it is to collect accurate metrics by using the 6th-grade MAP-M at the end of 5th.

It all makes sense now.

Should. Won't. Limits their options.

As the parent of an older kid and looking back, I am not convinced that anyone needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade. For reference, my kid had a 260 at the end of 3rd grade and took Algebra in 7th. Finishing HS having taken Calc BC in 10th, Linear Alg, AP stats, and Vector Calculus. That's plenty of math!

What is the point of doing this much math in high school vs just going onto college?

Just wanted to point out that there are still many paths to extensive math without it.

Is it really realistic to take admission to this kind of program for granted? My impression is that it's competitive, so it's not a good idea to expect admission without planning for the case where the student isn't admitted.

That is correct. Even without SMCS, it would be possible to double up on some math and/or take in the summer. My kid loves math but really was topped out by end of HS. Message here is to think ahead. Nice to be able to brag that your kid is in Algebra in 6th but do you really want them in Calculus in 10th grade and then having to take 2 even harder math classes after that?

If you need to slow down you can do 2-Year AP calc AB + BC.

You can do AP Stats (or non-AP stats), which isn't harder than AP Calc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So MCPS will provide guidance like 5th graders score 250+ (just as example) in Spring MAP Math 6+ test can choose algebra 1 at 6th grade? Or how should it work? I am sure just depending on individual school is not a good solution. MCPS should provide the guidance for all middle school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is run by ineffective and unsupportive leaders who don’t actual care about the schools or kids. Our school fought back when the memo arrived and yet no one at the top cared or listened. We are told to follow orders even though the decision is not good for kids. It’s awful and parents should be reaching out to the math dept and directors. They don’t listen to teachers.

Why would the people at the top even think this was helpful? Could this provide a better indication of who is ready for Algebra in 6th than the current methods which seem to be up to each school are inconsistent?

You didn't hear this from me but all the noise about the WPS offering Algebra in 6th to students has raised equity concerns among the top brass. Apparently, the first step in addressing it is to collect accurate metrics by using the 6th-grade MAP-M at the end of 5th.

It all makes sense now.

Should. Won't. Limits their options.

As the parent of an older kid and looking back, I am not convinced that anyone needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade. For reference, my kid had a 260 at the end of 3rd grade and took Algebra in 7th. Finishing HS having taken Calc BC in 10th, Linear Alg, AP stats, and Vector Calculus. That's plenty of math!

What is the point of doing this much math in high school vs just going onto college?

Just wanted to point out that there are still many paths to extensive math without it.

Is it really realistic to take admission to this kind of program for granted? My impression is that it's competitive, so it's not a good idea to expect admission without planning for the case where the student isn't admitted.

That is correct. Even without SMCS, it would be possible to double up on some math and/or take in the summer. My kid loves math but really was topped out by end of HS. Message here is to think ahead. Nice to be able to brag that your kid is in Algebra in 6th but do you really want them in Calculus in 10th grade and then having to take 2 even harder math classes after that?

This is really the crux of the issue. Most kids are not going to major in a field like math/physics/engineering that requires really high and hard math levels. Most kids are not the type to be solving the Millennium problems. So unless your kid is really math oriented and really loves math there is no need to push. Find something that incorporates math and logic (games, robotics, science camps) and let kids live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So MCPS will provide guidance like 5th graders score 250+ (just as example) in Spring MAP Math 6+ test can choose algebra 1 at 6th grade? Or how should it work? I am sure just depending on individual school is not a good solution. MCPS should provide the guidance for all middle school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is run by ineffective and unsupportive leaders who don’t actual care about the schools or kids. Our school fought back when the memo arrived and yet no one at the top cared or listened. We are told to follow orders even though the decision is not good for kids. It’s awful and parents should be reaching out to the math dept and directors. They don’t listen to teachers.

Why would the people at the top even think this was helpful? Could this provide a better indication of who is ready for Algebra in 6th than the current methods which seem to be up to each school are inconsistent?

You didn't hear this from me but all the noise about the WPS offering Algebra in 6th to students has raised equity concerns among the top brass. Apparently, the first step in addressing it is to collect accurate metrics by using the 6th-grade MAP-M at the end of 5th.

It all makes sense now.

Should. Won't. Limits their options.

As the parent of an older kid and looking back, I am not convinced that anyone needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade. For reference, my kid had a 260 at the end of 3rd grade and took Algebra in 7th. Finishing HS having taken Calc BC in 10th, Linear Alg, AP stats, and Vector Calculus. That's plenty of math!

What is the point of doing this much math in high school vs just going onto college?

Just wanted to point out that there are still many paths to extensive math without it.

Is it really realistic to take admission to this kind of program for granted? My impression is that it's competitive, so it's not a good idea to expect admission without planning for the case where the student isn't admitted.

That is correct. Even without SMCS, it would be possible to double up on some math and/or take in the summer. My kid loves math but really was topped out by end of HS. Message here is to think ahead. Nice to be able to brag that your kid is in Algebra in 6th but do you really want them in Calculus in 10th grade and then having to take 2 even harder math classes after that?

If you need to slow down you can do 2-Year AP calc AB + BC.

You can do AP Stats (or non-AP stats), which isn't harder than AP Calc.

AP computer science also counts as a math class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone seen the Reports on Parentvue yet? When are they posted?

They won't get posted for a while.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So MCPS will provide guidance like 5th graders score 250+ (just as example) in Spring MAP Math 6+ test can choose algebra 1 at 6th grade? Or how should it work? I am sure just depending on individual school is not a good solution. MCPS should provide the guidance for all middle school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is run by ineffective and unsupportive leaders who don’t actual care about the schools or kids. Our school fought back when the memo arrived and yet no one at the top cared or listened. We are told to follow orders even though the decision is not good for kids. It’s awful and parents should be reaching out to the math dept and directors. They don’t listen to teachers.

Why would the people at the top even think this was helpful? Could this provide a better indication of who is ready for Algebra in 6th than the current methods which seem to be up to each school are inconsistent?

You didn't hear this from me but all the noise about the WPS offering Algebra in 6th to students has raised equity concerns among the top brass. Apparently, the first step in addressing it is to collect accurate metrics by using the 6th-grade MAP-M at the end of 5th.

It all makes sense now.

Should. Won't. Limits their options.

As the parent of an older kid and looking back, I am not convinced that anyone needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade. For reference, my kid had a 260 at the end of 3rd grade and took Algebra in 7th. Finishing HS having taken Calc BC in 10th, Linear Alg, AP stats, and Vector Calculus. That's plenty of math!

What is the point of doing this much math in high school vs just going onto college?

Just wanted to point out that there are still many paths to extensive math without it.

Is it really realistic to take admission to this kind of program for granted? My impression is that it's competitive, so it's not a good idea to expect admission without planning for the case where the student isn't admitted.

That is correct. Even without SMCS, it would be possible to double up on some math and/or take in the summer. My kid loves math but really was topped out by end of HS. Message here is to think ahead. Nice to be able to brag that your kid is in Algebra in 6th but do you really want them in Calculus in 10th grade and then having to take 2 even harder math classes after that?

If you need to slow down you can do 2-Year AP calc AB + BC.

You can do AP Stats (or non-AP stats), which isn't harder than AP Calc.

AP computer science also counts as a math class.

That's awesome! AP Calc BC, AP Stats & AP CS is a nice set without going into the higher-level college courses

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So MCPS will provide guidance like 5th graders score 250+ (just as example) in Spring MAP Math 6+ test can choose algebra 1 at 6th grade? Or how should it work? I am sure just depending on individual school is not a good solution. MCPS should provide the guidance for all middle school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is run by ineffective and unsupportive leaders who don’t actual care about the schools or kids. Our school fought back when the memo arrived and yet no one at the top cared or listened. We are told to follow orders even though the decision is not good for kids. It’s awful and parents should be reaching out to the math dept and directors. They don’t listen to teachers.

Why would the people at the top even think this was helpful? Could this provide a better indication of who is ready for Algebra in 6th than the current methods which seem to be up to each school are inconsistent?

You didn't hear this from me but all the noise about the WPS offering Algebra in 6th to students has raised equity concerns among the top brass. Apparently, the first step in addressing it is to collect accurate metrics by using the 6th-grade MAP-M at the end of 5th.

It all makes sense now.

Should. Won't. Limits their options.

As the parent of an older kid and looking back, I am not convinced that anyone needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade. For reference, my kid had a 260 at the end of 3rd grade and took Algebra in 7th. Finishing HS having taken Calc BC in 10th, Linear Alg, AP stats, and Vector Calculus. That's plenty of math!

What is the point of doing this much math in high school vs just going onto college?

Just wanted to point out that there are still many paths to extensive math without it.

Is it really realistic to take admission to this kind of program for granted? My impression is that it's competitive, so it's not a good idea to expect admission without planning for the case where the student isn't admitted.

That is correct. Even without SMCS, it would be possible to double up on some math and/or take in the summer. My kid loves math but really was topped out by end of HS. Message here is to think ahead. Nice to be able to brag that your kid is in Algebra in 6th but do you really want them in Calculus in 10th grade and then having to take 2 even harder math classes after that?

This is really the crux of the issue. Most kids are not going to major in a field like math/physics/engineering that requires really high and hard math levels. Most kids are not the type to be solving the Millennium problems. So unless your kid is really math oriented and really loves math there is no need to push. Find something that incorporates math and logic (games, robotics, science camps) and let kids live.

It's the crux of the student-centric concern of one side of the issue (ignoring the school-centric logistics/system-centric budgetary impact).

The flip side is that far too many are turned off to math in late elementary & middle because it's too trivial and dry. Too easy. Uninteresting in that they really aren't exposed to new concepts with enough frequency. Then they tune out/decide they don't like it when many of them would if it was paced well for them.

The problem is the combination of the MD requirement for math in each year and the possible college admissions expectation of continual progression. The former can be corrected by exempting anyone who has completed a college-level course, since the intent of the rule was to keep kids learning past the Algebra & Geometry minimums, not to push kids into MVC/DE/LA-type courses.

The latter is not a certainty, and many colleges, including highly-regarded ones, are happy to see just completion of Calc, even for those going into Math/Engineering/"hard" Sciences, as they tend to prefer those more advanced courses be taken at their institution. And if a kid is really attuned to Math/going for those majors, it shouldn't be a problem for them to continue choosing higher-level college courses as electives in Junior/Senior year.

Let there be acceleration through Geometry for anyone who wants it (given that teachers see they can handle it as a guard against parent push). Then let there be the options as noted above, flexing for anyone who wants more and anyone who has achieved highly enough not to need more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So MCPS will provide guidance like 5th graders score 250+ (just as example) in Spring MAP Math 6+ test can choose algebra 1 at 6th grade? Or how should it work? I am sure just depending on individual school is not a good solution. MCPS should provide the guidance for all middle school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS is run by ineffective and unsupportive leaders who don’t actual care about the schools or kids. Our school fought back when the memo arrived and yet no one at the top cared or listened. We are told to follow orders even though the decision is not good for kids. It’s awful and parents should be reaching out to the math dept and directors. They don’t listen to teachers.

Why would the people at the top even think this was helpful? Could this provide a better indication of who is ready for Algebra in 6th than the current methods which seem to be up to each school are inconsistent?

You didn't hear this from me but all the noise about the WPS offering Algebra in 6th to students has raised equity concerns among the top brass. Apparently, the first step in addressing it is to collect accurate metrics by using the 6th-grade MAP-M at the end of 5th.

It all makes sense now.

Should. Won't. Limits their options.

As the parent of an older kid and looking back, I am not convinced that anyone needs to be taking Algebra in 6th grade. For reference, my kid had a 260 at the end of 3rd grade and took Algebra in 7th. Finishing HS having taken Calc BC in 10th, Linear Alg, AP stats, and Vector Calculus. That's plenty of math!

What is the point of doing this much math in high school vs just going onto college?

Just wanted to point out that there are still many paths to extensive math without it.

Is it really realistic to take admission to this kind of program for granted? My impression is that it's competitive, so it's not a good idea to expect admission without planning for the case where the student isn't admitted.

That is correct. Even without SMCS, it would be possible to double up on some math and/or take in the summer. My kid loves math but really was topped out by end of HS. Message here is to think ahead. Nice to be able to brag that your kid is in Algebra in 6th but do you really want them in Calculus in 10th grade and then having to take 2 even harder math classes after that?

If you need to slow down you can do 2-Year AP calc AB + BC.

You can do AP Stats (or non-AP stats), which isn't harder than AP Calc.

AP computer science also counts as a math class.

That's awesome! AP Calc BC, AP Stats & AP CS is a nice set without going into the higher-level college courses

I don't think that's true. Also that will look bad on your college application to not have 4 years in HS of a full math class. Plus that makes no sense to rush ahead in math and then slow down later!