Dystopian thread by South Korean on why South Koreans don’t have kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I recently visited Korea and grateful that my kids live in America. There is so much pressure to excel academically in Korea. If you are not top of 10%, it seems you have no shot at a good college. College acceptance and majors are determined by a single test. Depression seems common. Most parents push their kids and spending hours at these after school academies is the norm. So kids are at school all day and then have to spend several hours at these after school programs. Problem is everyone is doing it so it is hard to be at the top.

Sounds like Fairfax, VA

Absolutely not. If that's your neighborhood, then it's not too difficult to move a couple blocks and solve the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. Why can’t people move to a less expensive town or opt out of the educational prepping insanity?

1. good jobs are mostly in the cities, like Seoul, and the majority of good paying jobs are with one of the chaebol (conglomerates) like Samsung, or Google Korea -- these types of jobs are very hard to get, which leads to...
2. unlike the US, there are not many top universities in Korea - there are maybe two - and if you can get in, you are set for life because the top companies will only hire from these companies

There are a lot of great things about Korea, but this kind of pipeline isn't healthy, which is why so many Koreans want to come to the US where the competition is less fierce, and one can get a great job without going to a T20 colleges.

People stay to 11PM - doing what? Really nothing. Just busy work. Nothing productive.

From the outside if you are hiring the best and the brightest like they claim why is it taking them so long during the day to do basic office work. They don’t sound very bright io me. What go they do? ChatGPT will make 99% of the jobs they are doing worthless anyway.

I don’t think everyone works until 11pm. There is just a lot of pressure to be at the top. America seems very accepting of being average. A parent would not put excessive pressure on their kid who isn’t that smart. Not everyone is smart. It is a difficult country to be an average student.

I don’t know if all schools are like this but my cousin told me all the kids are in the same class. They are not split by level. I told her in America, most kids are gen ed and then most school districts have a gifted or advanced program for the top 5-20% depending on the district.

Can you imagine putting all the slower learners with the advanced kids in the same class? They also rank you in order so you will know where you stand compared to your fellow classmates.

What? They do that here, too, other than the magnet/AP/IB classes. Where do you live? The "honors" classes are now mixed with slow and a bit more advanced learners.

We live in McLean. The advanced kids are in AAP. If you put the lower kids with the AAP kids, it would be horrible for the low performers, especially in math. I actually asked my cousin specifically about math and she said all the kids learn the same math. I told her in America, a student could elect to take some honors and some regular or all regular classes in high school and still go on to an ok college and have a fine life. She said that the moms would not want their kids in the average or lower classes. Seems like a bad system.

It would not be “horrible” - private schools don’t do segregate by level until the middle school grades

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. Why can’t people move to a less expensive town or opt out of the educational prepping insanity?

1. good jobs are mostly in the cities, like Seoul, and the majority of good paying jobs are with one of the chaebol (conglomerates) like Samsung, or Google Korea -- these types of jobs are very hard to get, which leads to...
2. unlike the US, there are not many top universities in Korea - there are maybe two - and if you can get in, you are set for life because the top companies will only hire from these companies

There are a lot of great things about Korea, but this kind of pipeline isn't healthy, which is why so many Koreans want to come to the US where the competition is less fierce, and one can get a great job without going to a T20 colleges.

People stay to 11PM - doing what? Really nothing. Just busy work. Nothing productive.

From the outside if you are hiring the best and the brightest like they claim why is it taking them so long during the day to do basic office work. They don’t sound very bright io me. What go they do? ChatGPT will make 99% of the jobs they are doing worthless anyway.

Agree with this. Most of the time must be spent networking and socializing with coworkers. Similar story with the Japanese. These countries aren’t really more productive and their economies aren’t any better. It makes sense there are some economic issues and a low birth rate if people are spending 12 hours on a job that can likely be done in 8 or even less. Seems like a culture that needs some changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Worst”? Maybe stop framing it as a bad thing. Perhaps let in immigrants.

It costs too much to raise kids in Korea. How are immigrants going to raise their kids in Korea if native Koreans even can't? What the he|| could uneducated Pedro and Maria from Guatemala do in Seoul that would allow them to raise kids there, and I mean in a way that would allow the kids to move up in the world rather than doing whatever Pedro and Maria do?

Why do African countries have so many children? It is expensive too but people are still having 5+ kids

In African countries, children are more of an asset than expense. They can provide great labor to the family & community in terms of farming, selling food etc at an early age. They can take care of their parents when they’re old. Also, sex is free & fun, and there’s low access to birth control. Becoming a parent in such places is a way to self-actualize since formal education, travel & careers aren’t easily accessible. Children provide simple enjoyment. A family in an African country doesn’t need to spend hundreds of dollars/month on math & computer science lessons to be considered a good parent.

Disillusioned much?

I’m PP. There has been a ton of research on this topic, and what I said is accurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. Why can’t people move to a less expensive town or opt out of the educational prepping insanity?

1. good jobs are mostly in the cities, like Seoul, and the majority of good paying jobs are with one of the chaebol (conglomerates) like Samsung, or Google Korea -- these types of jobs are very hard to get, which leads to...
2. unlike the US, there are not many top universities in Korea - there are maybe two - and if you can get in, you are set for life because the top companies will only hire from these companies

There are a lot of great things about Korea, but this kind of pipeline isn't healthy, which is why so many Koreans want to come to the US where the competition is less fierce, and one can get a great job without going to a T20 colleges.

People stay to 11PM - doing what? Really nothing. Just busy work. Nothing productive.

From the outside if you are hiring the best and the brightest like they claim why is it taking them so long during the day to do basic office work. They don’t sound very bright io me. What go they do? ChatGPT will make 99% of the jobs they are doing worthless anyway.

I don’t think everyone works until 11pm. There is just a lot of pressure to be at the top. America seems very accepting of being average. A parent would not put excessive pressure on their kid who isn’t that smart. Not everyone is smart. It is a difficult country to be an average student.

I don’t know if all schools are like this but my cousin told me all the kids are in the same class. They are not split by level. I told her in America, most kids are gen ed and then most school districts have a gifted or advanced program for the top 5-20% depending on the district.

Can you imagine putting all the slower learners with the advanced kids in the same class? They also rank you in order so you will know where you stand compared to your fellow classmates.

What? They do that here, too, other than the magnet/AP/IB classes. Where do you live? The "honors" classes are now mixed with slow and a bit more advanced learners.

We live in McLean. The advanced kids are in AAP. If you put the lower kids with the AAP kids, it would be horrible for the low performers, especially in math. I actually asked my cousin specifically about math and she said all the kids learn the same math. I told her in America, a student could elect to take some honors and some regular or all regular classes in high school and still go on to an ok college and have a fine life. She said that the moms would not want their kids in the average or lower classes. Seems like a bad system.

It would not be “horrible” - private schools don’t do segregate by level until the middle school grades

Because private schools hand pick their students. No ESOL, low income or disabled students at them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. Why can’t people move to a less expensive town or opt out of the educational prepping insanity?

1. good jobs are mostly in the cities, like Seoul, and the majority of good paying jobs are with one of the chaebol (conglomerates) like Samsung, or Google Korea -- these types of jobs are very hard to get, which leads to...
2. unlike the US, there are not many top universities in Korea - there are maybe two - and if you can get in, you are set for life because the top companies will only hire from these companies

There are a lot of great things about Korea, but this kind of pipeline isn't healthy, which is why so many Koreans want to come to the US where the competition is less fierce, and one can get a great job without going to a T20 colleges.

People stay to 11PM - doing what? Really nothing. Just busy work. Nothing productive.

From the outside if you are hiring the best and the brightest like they claim why is it taking them so long during the day to do basic office work. They don’t sound very bright io me. What go they do? ChatGPT will make 99% of the jobs they are doing worthless anyway.

I don’t think everyone works until 11pm. There is just a lot of pressure to be at the top. America seems very accepting of being average. A parent would not put excessive pressure on their kid who isn’t that smart. Not everyone is smart. It is a difficult country to be an average student.

I don’t know if all schools are like this but my cousin told me all the kids are in the same class. They are not split by level. I told her in America, most kids are gen ed and then most school districts have a gifted or advanced program for the top 5-20% depending on the district.

Can you imagine putting all the slower learners with the advanced kids in the same class? They also rank you in order so you will know where you stand compared to your fellow classmates.

What? They do that here, too, other than the magnet/AP/IB classes. Where do you live? The "honors" classes are now mixed with slow and a bit more advanced learners.

We live in McLean. The advanced kids are in AAP. If you put the lower kids with the AAP kids, it would be horrible for the low performers, especially in math. I actually asked my cousin specifically about math and she said all the kids learn the same math. I told her in America, a student could elect to take some honors and some regular or all regular classes in high school and still go on to an ok college and have a fine life. She said that the moms would not want their kids in the average or lower classes. Seems like a bad system.

It would not be “horrible” - private schools don’t do segregate by level until the middle school grades

Because private schools hand pick their students. No ESOL, low income or disabled students at them.

And I imagine the Korean schools that educate the children of the UMC do as well. Let’s face it - it is the UMC who are obsessed with school performance. The average laborer doesn’t care if their kid is in the top 10%, and the elite know their kid can do well regardless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. Why can’t people move to a less expensive town or opt out of the educational prepping insanity?

1. good jobs are mostly in the cities, like Seoul, and the majority of good paying jobs are with one of the chaebol (conglomerates) like Samsung, or Google Korea -- these types of jobs are very hard to get, which leads to...
2. unlike the US, there are not many top universities in Korea - there are maybe two - and if you can get in, you are set for life because the top companies will only hire from these companies

There are a lot of great things about Korea, but this kind of pipeline isn't healthy, which is why so many Koreans want to come to the US where the competition is less fierce, and one can get a great job without going to a T20 colleges.

People stay to 11PM - doing what? Really nothing. Just busy work. Nothing productive.

From the outside if you are hiring the best and the brightest like they claim why is it taking them so long during the day to do basic office work. They don’t sound very bright io me. What go they do? ChatGPT will make 99% of the jobs they are doing worthless anyway.

I don’t think everyone works until 11pm. There is just a lot of pressure to be at the top. America seems very accepting of being average. A parent would not put excessive pressure on their kid who isn’t that smart. Not everyone is smart. It is a difficult country to be an average student.

I don’t know if all schools are like this but my cousin told me all the kids are in the same class. They are not split by level. I told her in America, most kids are gen ed and then most school districts have a gifted or advanced program for the top 5-20% depending on the district.

Can you imagine putting all the slower learners with the advanced kids in the same class? They also rank you in order so you will know where you stand compared to your fellow classmates.

What? They do that here, too, other than the magnet/AP/IB classes. Where do you live? The "honors" classes are now mixed with slow and a bit more advanced learners.

We live in McLean. The advanced kids are in AAP. If you put the lower kids with the AAP kids, it would be horrible for the low performers, especially in math. I actually asked my cousin specifically about math and she said all the kids learn the same math. I told her in America, a student could elect to take some honors and some regular or all regular classes in high school and still go on to an ok college and have a fine life. She said that the moms would not want their kids in the average or lower classes. Seems like a bad system.

It would not be “horrible” - private schools don’t do segregate by level until the middle school grades

Because private schools hand pick their students. No ESOL, low income or disabled students at them.

And I imagine the Korean schools that educate the children of the UMC do as well. Let’s face it - it is the UMC who are obsessed with school performance. The average laborer doesn’t care if their kid is in the top 10%, and the elite know their kid can do well regardless.

South Korea is a different beast. Virtually all kids go to some kind of hagwon by middle school:

“The average South Korean family spends 20 percent of its income on after-hours “cram schools,” or hagwons, with spending starting early. More than 35 percent of 2-year-olds, 80 percent of 5-year-olds and 95 percent of middle schoolers attend hagwons.

https://hechingerreport.org/opinion-known-intense-testing-pressure-top-performing-south-korea-dials-back/

It says something that most Korean high schools offer a dinner service.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Worst”? Maybe stop framing it as a bad thing. Perhaps let in immigrants.

It costs too much to raise kids in Korea. How are immigrants going to raise their kids in Korea if native Koreans even can't? What the he|| could uneducated Pedro and Maria from Guatemala do in Seoul that would allow them to raise kids there, and I mean in a way that would allow the kids to move up in the world rather than doing whatever Pedro and Maria do?

This

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. Why can’t people move to a less expensive town or opt out of the educational prepping insanity?

1. good jobs are mostly in the cities, like Seoul, and the majority of good paying jobs are with one of the chaebol (conglomerates) like Samsung, or Google Korea -- these types of jobs are very hard to get, which leads to...
2. unlike the US, there are not many top universities in Korea - there are maybe two - and if you can get in, you are set for life because the top companies will only hire from these companies

There are a lot of great things about Korea, but this kind of pipeline isn't healthy, which is why so many Koreans want to come to the US where the competition is less fierce, and one can get a great job without going to a T20 colleges.

People stay to 11PM - doing what? Really nothing. Just busy work. Nothing productive.

From the outside if you are hiring the best and the brightest like they claim why is it taking them so long during the day to do basic office work. They don’t sound very bright io me. What go they do? ChatGPT will make 99% of the jobs they are doing worthless anyway.

I don’t think everyone works until 11pm. There is just a lot of pressure to be at the top. America seems very accepting of being average. A parent would not put excessive pressure on their kid who isn’t that smart. Not everyone is smart. It is a difficult country to be an average student.

I don’t know if all schools are like this but my cousin told me all the kids are in the same class. They are not split by level. I told her in America, most kids are gen ed and then most school districts have a gifted or advanced program for the top 5-20% depending on the district.

Can you imagine putting all the slower learners with the advanced kids in the same class? They also rank you in order so you will know where you stand compared to your fellow classmates.

What? They do that here, too, other than the magnet/AP/IB classes. Where do you live? The "honors" classes are now mixed with slow and a bit more advanced learners.

We live in McLean. The advanced kids are in AAP. If you put the lower kids with the AAP kids, it would be horrible for the low performers, especially in math. I actually asked my cousin specifically about math and she said all the kids learn the same math. I told her in America, a student could elect to take some honors and some regular or all regular classes in high school and still go on to an ok college and have a fine life. She said that the moms would not want their kids in the average or lower classes. Seems like a bad system.

It would not be “horrible” - private schools don’t do segregate by level until the middle school grades

Majority of private school kids are at least preforming at gravel level though....unlike public school.

[Anonymous]

Why don’t UMC families opt out of this nonsense & send their kids to international expat schools, US boarding schools or homeschool? Then U.S. universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t UMC families opt out of this nonsense & send their kids to international expat schools, US boarding schools or homeschool? Then U.S. universities.

That is beyond UMC income

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t UMC families opt out of this nonsense & send their kids to international expat schools, US boarding schools or homeschool? Then U.S. universities.

Just like paying 70k for boarding school for multiple kids is out of reach for most American families, that cost is too burdensome for most Korean families.

My cousin is sending her 2 kids to boarding school though. Her husband has his own company and can afford it. Not everyone can do afford this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why don’t UMC families opt out of this nonsense & send their kids to international expat schools, US boarding schools or homeschool? Then U.S. universities.

Homeschooling is out of the question with the parents' work hours. Although they could probably "home-hagwon" if the parents had a grasp of the subject matter. E.g., Korean parents who speak English probably don't need to send their kids to English cram schools (hagwons) and likely many parents who themselves went to the top universities could also effectively tutor for the entrance exams. But like in the DMV, it's considered a flex to send your kid to a place for tutoring rather than do it yourself, even when doing it yourself is cheaper, faster, and less stressful. That's why you know of math professors who send their 8 year olds to Kumon to practice times tables and assorted baby math topics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. Why can’t people move to a less expensive town or opt out of the educational prepping insanity?

1. good jobs are mostly in the cities, like Seoul, and the majority of good paying jobs are with one of the chaebol (conglomerates) like Samsung, or Google Korea -- these types of jobs are very hard to get, which leads to...
2. unlike the US, there are not many top universities in Korea - there are maybe two - and if you can get in, you are set for life because the top companies will only hire from these companies

There are a lot of great things about Korea, but this kind of pipeline isn't healthy, which is why so many Koreans want to come to the US where the competition is less fierce, and one can get a great job without going to a T20 colleges.

People stay to 11PM - doing what? Really nothing. Just busy work. Nothing productive.

From the outside if you are hiring the best and the brightest like they claim why is it taking them so long during the day to do basic office work. They don’t sound very bright io me. What go they do? ChatGPT will make 99% of the jobs they are doing worthless anyway.

South Koreans aren't very productive workers. They just work a lot of hours, so there's probably a lot of pointless busy work and "presentism" due to the culture. American workers are significantly more productive. I'm betting their educational system is similar- a lot of time spent in rote learning, but it doesn't seem to result in a productive work force.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_labour_productivity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. Why can’t people move to a less expensive town or opt out of the educational prepping insanity?

1. good jobs are mostly in the cities, like Seoul, and the majority of good paying jobs are with one of the chaebol (conglomerates) like Samsung, or Google Korea -- these types of jobs are very hard to get, which leads to...
2. unlike the US, there are not many top universities in Korea - there are maybe two - and if you can get in, you are set for life because the top companies will only hire from these companies

There are a lot of great things about Korea, but this kind of pipeline isn't healthy, which is why so many Koreans want to come to the US where the competition is less fierce, and one can get a great job without going to a T20 colleges.

People stay to 11PM - doing what? Really nothing. Just busy work. Nothing productive.

From the outside if you are hiring the best and the brightest like they claim why is it taking them so long during the day to do basic office work. They don’t sound very bright io me. What go they do? ChatGPT will make 99% of the jobs they are doing worthless anyway.

South Koreans aren't very productive workers. They just work a lot of hours, so there's probably a lot of pointless busy work and "presentism" due to the culture. American workers are significantly more productive. I'm betting their educational system is similar- a lot of time spent in rote learning, but it doesn't seem to result in a productive work force.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_labour_productivity

On the other hand South Korea has made amazing progress over the past several decades in terms of economic output. By GDP it's the fourth largest economy in Asia and 12th in the world, and they did it without a ton of natural resources. South Korean work culture is toxic, but the country has punched well above its weight on the global stage, largely on the backs of its educated workforce. Samsung, LG, Kia, and Hyundai are well known brands.

I'm sure the hourly productivity rate of American workers would also plummet if we were expected to stay until 10PM every night. The South Korean workforce is plenty productive.