What youth-HS sport was the best experience for your family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hands down cross country! But I think my kid was lucky to be in a program with an incredible coach and team. Was honestly life changing for him. Leadership experience, role models, teammates, confidence, life long activity. He could have run D3 but ultimately ended up at a larger D1 college that was a better fit academically.

My kids all love summer swim too and we have a great pool community. But I don’t rank it as highly as XC bc if your kid ends up swimming competitively, practice is sooo early, lol.

Summer swim is great for us because DD is fast enough to make divisionals during the summer, but slow enough that she never wanted to do club

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swim is the worst

Very toxic

mcsl is very strange. A gazillion kids join their pool's team and then a few lucky ones get to swim in the meets? Who, other than the ringers would bother doing this? Why are the "A" meets so restrictive? While all the "commoners" go to a few pity meets. We're in a different county and TG its not like that. Everyone competes at the actual meets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swim is the worst

Very toxic

mcsl is very strange. A gazillion kids join their pool's team and then a few lucky ones get to swim in the meets? Who, other than the ringers would bother doing this? Why are the "A" meets so restrictive? While all the "commoners" go to a few pity meets. We're in a different county and TG its not like that. Everyone competes at the actual meets.

Are they really that restrictive? There are usually 60-70 kids competing in an MCSL Saturday summer swim meet (60 kids are needed for freestyle alone bc there are two heats of each gender for every age group plus kids can only swim 3 events so it spreads swimming around). And generally, lineups change each week so about 85 or more kids get to swim an A meet at our pool each summer. That is a larger number than any other sport my kid has participated in other than road races. Certainly more than field sports. How would meets work if more kids competed on Saturdays? So you would have 3-4 heats of each event? Would you score the meet deeper? Would that really feel better than dividing it up between two meets? I thought the MCSL set up was pretty standard in most leagues.

I would also suggest changing the culture around Wednesday meets at your pool. I would never use the term “pity meets.” Most kids at our pool really enjoy swimming in these meets because coach focuses on time drops, improvement, team spirit etc. Also, pep rallies, pasta dinners, social activities are open to everyone regardless of which meet they swim. The other thing our pool does is allow the high schoolers to be coaches so those who aren’t swimming A meets often have responsibility for managing the youngest swimmers and they seem to really enjoy it and keep coming back each year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I come at this from two different perspectives: as a coach because I've coached many of my children's teams (flag football, basketball and lax mostly)(some at the rec level some higher levels) and as a parent.

As a parent, the best experiences are typically when the parents and kids are good and normal. That goes a long way for our family's experience. This is particularly true for other parents. You are going to be sitting on the sideline with these people for hours over long stretches of a season. It is better if they are engaging, flexible and try not to take themselves to seriously about this. Some times the parents are great, sometimes they aren't. If they are douchey or morons.

The other best experiences for my kids is when I see them being well-coached and I see the players (not just my kids) get better and develop their skill set in the sport they are playing. So a good experiences is amplified by a good coach. And I'll be honest, the best coaches are also the most competitive. It doesn't mean win at all costs but the coaches ability to raise up their players (at all talent levels) so they can compete against other teams that might be more talented. Doesn't mean they win but you can see their skills improved that also develops confidence that they might win a game against a better team. Competitive coaches will work with all their players to get them to improve and will work with kids do the little things. My son just finished a travel basketball season that I thought would go meh because most of the players coming back were from last year's team and it was an awful experience. But, there was a new coach and by the end of the season, I saw huge development in the players and it was a team not just 5 individuals. They lost in the championship game by 4 to a team that had beaten them by 20 and 25 points earlier in the season. I've seen my daughter be coached in softball by one particular guy and I could tell that he was just a sort of roll the ball out there kind of coach. You could tell when you compared my daughter's team to other teams in how they approached the game and how they just lined up they weren't well coached. It was very frustrating.

As a coach, the best experiences I've had are watching players develop and getting better. It is also with parents that understand I have the best intentions for their children. I tell parents and kids I am going to place them in positions to succeed and give them the tools to make sure they succeed when I ask them to do something. That doesn't mean every kid does the same things - like play quarterback or point guard - but they will play and be asked to do things that will put them outside of their comfort zone. Nothing drives me more nuts when I ask a kid to do something in a game and they say they don't want to do it. For example, in flag football, I try to get every kid (especially at the lower ages) to run the ball every game. One year I had a kid never want to run with the ball until 2nd to last game of the season. I asked him, he said yes and ran the entire field for a touchdown. He said "Coach, why didn't I get to run the ball earlier?" I just rolled my eyes.

And I'll be very honest, you typically have better experiences when you win. It is just more fun. Again, this isn't you have to win at all costs. But getting your head kicked in for a season or losing all of your games isn't really a lot of fun for anyone. It builds character but just losing uncompetitively for long periods isn't great for the "experience." And I'm sorry if I'm not conveying myself very well. I've coached rec games where I could have won by just playing my best players or just handing off the ball to the kid that is the best athlete in the league and just dominate teams. It also depends on the rules. Most leagues I coach are you automatically my the playoffs. In those leagues, everyone gets the same amount of playing time but in the playoffs, playing time isn't equal but everyone still plays. I explain this to parents at the beginning of every season and never had anyone complain.

I know you have the best of intentions but I have to take issue with alot of what you said. You seem to be of the mind that as a youth coach you can make a difference. In reality, with such short one-off seasons, limited practice times and games, you really can't. Coaches don't develop players, players (with the help of their families) develop players, over multiple seasons.

I see youth coaches win and feel successful by doing all the wrong things for player development. Figuring out a way to get the better players on their team (carpool loophole). Heavily playing their best kids, or coming up with a gimmick play to score when all it does is limit important team concepts. In basketball this is typically press/zone defense, having the best kid handle the ball all the time, running pick and roll time after time for the best scorer while everyone watches and is told the rebound, guiding certain players to shoot less. Every sport has these little tricks that do nothing for and acutal limit player development.

The most important thing for a youth coach is this: Don't get in the way! Provide the framework and manage the practice and games, and then let the kids play and compete at the sport the right way. Wins or losses at the rec/youth level really don't matter (can't believe this has to be said) and a good coach will get that. I guarantee you that you aren't as good of a coach as you think you are. Otherwise, you wouldn't be a volunteer unpaid coach. That other coach you think that wasn't very good... there's very little separating the two of you, no matter how wide you think that gap is. Wins and losses come down to luck of the draw with the roster/players a team gets assigned (or that the dad coaches could finagle onto their time - you know who you are).

I don't think you read my post very careful and are reading a great deal into it. Much more than should.

You can take issue with what ever you want, but until you actually coach, you don't really know what you are talking about. If you do coach...great...we have different philosophies about how to coach. I'm going to guess mine is more successful at an individual and team level because the "provide the framework and manage practice and games" usually results in just chaos and players not getting better. A good coach is like a good parent and they provide a structure to players. No structure, results in practices basically being like herding cats and games - oh, boy.. As for good coaches, you know one when you see it. I have kids I coached 5-6 years ago come up to me all the time and talk about X season or just to say hi.

In 10+ years of coaching, I've never had a parent every ask me about playing time for their children, which means I've done a good job. I can also say numerous coaches, opposing players, parents, refs, have stated how well coached my teams are. This occurs even when my teams don't win and lose by a lot. And, yes, I've had a number of teams not be very good. Doesn't mean they weren't successful when looking at where the team and individuals improved. Some of my teams have been awful to start but through several years improved. I don't do any type of loopholes for my rosters. kids are on it or they aren't. Many of my teams through the years have had the same kids with minor changes at the margins because they go to my kids' school or were originally placed on my roster. Believe me, there have been times I wish a kid wasn't but that doesn't mean I coach them any differently. Yes, many players develop on their own but also input from me. If you don't think good coaching makes an impact on practice or player development, I'm not sure what to tell you.

I also don't think you know much about sports when you talk about player development because I never said players don't develop outside of practices I hold. In fact, most development occurs outside of my practices when kids take what is taught in practice and work on it outside of practice. Some do, some don't. Some get extra help outside, some are so busy they move from sport to sport depending on the season. Practice is for preparing for games and honing skills it generally isn't for constantly doing drills.

As for being paid, I could if I wanted to. I've been offered several opportunities to coach at AAU level teams. I don't take them up on it because I have a successful career and the main reason I coach is so that I can spend time with my children (and, setting when your team practices is an added benefit). When they get past the ages I can coach, I might look into it or I might start reffing.

[Anonymous]

^^ THANKS for your efforts PP. We need more coaches like you!

[Anonymous]

My kids have had a great time in summer swim starting at age 5 & 7. We are fortunate to not have to deal with A/B meets tho. We've moved onto club swimming and 1st year of high school swimming - both positive. Travel soccer has some of the worst parents and jerky kids too so we just try and keep to ourselves on the sidelines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They are all great and all miserable.

This. The sport itself and the lessons and hard work . . . .good. The competition, good. Learning to lose and fail, good. Succeeding after working hard, good.

The politics, favoritism, nepotism, MISERABLE. The money and long hours, miserable (for me, kid loves it).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swim is the worst

Very toxic

I think it depends on the league and the pool.

I have heard some negative things about some of the dynamics in the NVSL.... but I don't have any firsthand experience.

I know that in my experience, I don't see any toxic/negative dynamics in MCSL over the years I've been involved.


Club(winter) swim is different and more of an individual thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I come at this from two different perspectives: as a coach because I've coached many of my children's teams (flag football, basketball and lax mostly)(some at the rec level some higher levels) and as a parent.

As a parent, the best experiences are typically when the parents and kids are good and normal. That goes a long way for our family's experience. This is particularly true for other parents. You are going to be sitting on the sideline with these people for hours over long stretches of a season. It is better if they are engaging, flexible and try not to take themselves to seriously about this. Some times the parents are great, sometimes they aren't. If they are douchey or morons.

The other best experiences for my kids is when I see them being well-coached and I see the players (not just my kids) get better and develop their skill set in the sport they are playing. So a good experiences is amplified by a good coach. And I'll be honest, the best coaches are also the most competitive. It doesn't mean win at all costs but the coaches ability to raise up their players (at all talent levels) so they can compete against other teams that might be more talented. Doesn't mean they win but you can see their skills improved that also develops confidence that they might win a game against a better team. Competitive coaches will work with all their players to get them to improve and will work with kids do the little things. My son just finished a travel basketball season that I thought would go meh because most of the players coming back were from last year's team and it was an awful experience. But, there was a new coach and by the end of the season, I saw huge development in the players and it was a team not just 5 individuals. They lost in the championship game by 4 to a team that had beaten them by 20 and 25 points earlier in the season. I've seen my daughter be coached in softball by one particular guy and I could tell that he was just a sort of roll the ball out there kind of coach. You could tell when you compared my daughter's team to other teams in how they approached the game and how they just lined up they weren't well coached. It was very frustrating.

As a coach, the best experiences I've had are watching players develop and getting better. It is also with parents that understand I have the best intentions for their children. I tell parents and kids I am going to place them in positions to succeed and give them the tools to make sure they succeed when I ask them to do something. That doesn't mean every kid does the same things - like play quarterback or point guard - but they will play and be asked to do things that will put them outside of their comfort zone. Nothing drives me more nuts when I ask a kid to do something in a game and they say they don't want to do it. For example, in flag football, I try to get every kid (especially at the lower ages) to run the ball every game. One year I had a kid never want to run with the ball until 2nd to last game of the season. I asked him, he said yes and ran the entire field for a touchdown. He said "Coach, why didn't I get to run the ball earlier?" I just rolled my eyes.

And I'll be very honest, you typically have better experiences when you win. It is just more fun. Again, this isn't you have to win at all costs. But getting your head kicked in for a season or losing all of your games isn't really a lot of fun for anyone. It builds character but just losing uncompetitively for long periods isn't great for the "experience." And I'm sorry if I'm not conveying myself very well. I've coached rec games where I could have won by just playing my best players or just handing off the ball to the kid that is the best athlete in the league and just dominate teams. It also depends on the rules. Most leagues I coach are you automatically my the playoffs. In those leagues, everyone gets the same amount of playing time but in the playoffs, playing time isn't equal but everyone still plays. I explain this to parents at the beginning of every season and never had anyone complain.

I know you have the best of intentions but I have to take issue with alot of what you said. You seem to be of the mind that as a youth coach you can make a difference. In reality, with such short one-off seasons, limited practice times and games, you really can't. Coaches don't develop players, players (with the help of their families) develop players, over multiple seasons.

I see youth coaches win and feel successful by doing all the wrong things for player development. Figuring out a way to get the better players on their team (carpool loophole). Heavily playing their best kids, or coming up with a gimmick play to score when all it does is limit important team concepts. In basketball this is typically press/zone defense, having the best kid handle the ball all the time, running pick and roll time after time for the best scorer while everyone watches and is told the rebound, guiding certain players to shoot less. Every sport has these little tricks that do nothing for and acutal limit player development.

The most important thing for a youth coach is this: Don't get in the way! Provide the framework and manage the practice and games, and then let the kids play and compete at the sport the right way. Wins or losses at the rec/youth level really don't matter (can't believe this has to be said) and a good coach will get that. I guarantee you that you aren't as good of a coach as you think you are. Otherwise, you wouldn't be a volunteer unpaid coach. That other coach you think that wasn't very good... there's very little separating the two of you, no matter how wide you think that gap is. Wins and losses come down to luck of the draw with the roster/players a team gets assigned (or that the dad coaches could finagle onto their time - you know who you are).

I don't think you read my post very careful and are reading a great deal into it. Much more than should.

You can take issue with what ever you want, but until you actually coach, you don't really know what you are talking about. If you do coach...great...we have different philosophies about how to coach. I'm going to guess mine is more successful at an individual and team level because the "provide the framework and manage practice and games" usually results in just chaos and players not getting better. A good coach is like a good parent and they provide a structure to players. No structure, results in practices basically being like herding cats and games - oh, boy.. As for good coaches, you know one when you see it. I have kids I coached 5-6 years ago come up to me all the time and talk about X season or just to say hi.

In 10+ years of coaching, I've never had a parent every ask me about playing time for their children, which means I've done a good job. I can also say numerous coaches, opposing players, parents, refs, have stated how well coached my teams are. This occurs even when my teams don't win and lose by a lot. And, yes, I've had a number of teams not be very good. Doesn't mean they weren't successful when looking at where the team and individuals improved. Some of my teams have been awful to start but through several years improved. I don't do any type of loopholes for my rosters. kids are on it or they aren't. Many of my teams through the years have had the same kids with minor changes at the margins because they go to my kids' school or were originally placed on my roster. Believe me, there have been times I wish a kid wasn't but that doesn't mean I coach them any differently. Yes, many players develop on their own but also input from me. If you don't think good coaching makes an impact on practice or player development, I'm not sure what to tell you.

I also don't think you know much about sports when you talk about player development because I never said players don't develop outside of practices I hold. In fact, most development occurs outside of my practices when kids take what is taught in practice and work on it outside of practice. Some do, some don't. Some get extra help outside, some are so busy they move from sport to sport depending on the season. Practice is for preparing for games and honing skills it generally isn't for constantly doing drills.

As for being paid, I could if I wanted to. I've been offered several opportunities to coach at AAU level teams. I don't take them up on it because I have a successful career and the main reason I coach is so that I can spend time with my children (and, setting when your team practices is an added benefit). When they get past the ages I can coach, I might look into it or I might start reffing.

Fair enough. There's clearly a pretty big middle between 'barely caring coach who's there herding cats' and 'ego driven coach thinking its all about him'. Congrats on your coaching successes and the relationships you've formed.

[Anonymous]

Crew

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swim is the worst

Very toxic

mcsl is very strange. A gazillion kids join their pool's team and then a few lucky ones get to swim in the meets? Who, other than the ringers would bother doing this? Why are the "A" meets so restrictive? While all the "commoners" go to a few pity meets. We're in a different county and TG its not like that. Everyone competes at the actual meets.

I'm curious what league you swim in.

But this is not the how I'd describe the experience at our MCSL pool. The B meets on Wednesdays are very much meets and run in the same manner at the "A" meets on Saturdays. It's not uncommon, at least at our pool, to have more spectators cheering at a B meet than an A meet so in that regard, the tables are completely flipped. B meets can be a little longer since there may be more heats to accommodate everyone that wants to swim but other than that, it's run the same as an A meet. The B times are all entered into the computer system and I can actually look up times from my kids B meet swims from years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tackle Football. Hands down. Not even close.

Most tight knit, supportive, positive teammate.

+1 to all of this. VYI football for us. I’ll add positive and supportive coaches who were a huge influence on my kid.


The worst- the county run travel/county/all star teams for any sport. They are political and glorified rec with parent coaches and it comes down to friends and parent coaches over skill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swim is the worst

Very toxic

mcsl is very strange. A gazillion kids join their pool's team and then a few lucky ones get to swim in the meets? Who, other than the ringers would bother doing this? Why are the "A" meets so restrictive? While all the "commoners" go to a few pity meets. We're in a different county and TG its not like that. Everyone competes at the actual meets.

I'm curious what league you swim in.

But this is not the how I'd describe the experience at our MCSL pool. The B meets on Wednesdays are very much meets and run in the same manner at the "A" meets on Saturdays. It's not uncommon, at least at our pool, to have more spectators cheering at a B meet than an A meet so in that regard, the tables are completely flipped. B meets can be a little longer since there may be more heats to accommodate everyone that wants to swim but other than that, it's run the same as an A meet. The B times are all entered into the computer system and I can actually look up times from my kids B meet swims from years ago.

B meets are fine for most kids and esp little kids. The system is kind of unfair for kids who may be very good swimmers but happen to have a couple of stars in their age group at their pool. The A meets should have time standards that, if met, guarantee entry.

[Anonymous]

Best was jujitsu pre high school.

Also club soccer but we did not play for a familiar club, though it was top level play (2 kids are semi pro), it was the most diverse team my kids were on and super community feel.

Worst was lacrosse but he plays that in college so it was a necessary evil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Summer swim! Great family activity for all ages and they learn/practice a life skill. Social activities for both parents and kids. I enjoy that it’s a team sport that spans across all age groups, so you have the older kids cheering on the younger ones. It can be as competitive (A meets) or as relaxed (B meets) as you choose.

This. And our league is so small we don't do A meets/B meets so everyone is together. It has been amazing for our family.