Can someone be honest? How many APs did your kid take privately?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There’s something weird about kids paying more for study help on AP exams in these elite schools. Surely the school would offer free exams and tutoring in the name of equity?

The point is although the classes do not have an AP designation, they still prepare students for material on the exam. The decision to hire tutors to study for the AP exam is usually precipitated by parents for many reasons, including the misguided belief that their children must learn how to take the exam. Why should a school teach students test strategies? What does it tell us about these classes that teach students about the strategy of standardized test taking instead of covering the actual material on the exam? The reality is astute students should know to pore over past AP exams to get a sense of what the test looks like, what to expect, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, the top privates in the DMV collectively decided to do away with APs so they could appear different and better than the top DMV publics and justify charging their exorbitant tuitions. It was such an obvious move tbat the Justice Department actually looked into whether they violated antitrust laws.

Having said that, colleges make clear that (1) they judge your kids record by reference to the specific school that they attend, so if it doesn’t offer APs the college doesn’t expect to see APs or AP tests and (2) colleges don’t take AP exam scores into account in college admissions anyway. It’s taking the courses if they’re offered that they care about - not the scores in the exams afterwards. Remember, most students will take half or more of the AP exams that they’re ever going to take at the end of senior year, after they’ve already been admitted to college.

I served on one of the committees that decided to jettison the AP curriculum, and I can tell you that this lovely chesnut you put forth is clearly the product of your own demented fantasy and distrust of private schools. The main reason many of us supported getting rid of AP courses is because of all of the bureaucracy and red tape involved with dealing with the College Board, a questionable monopoly within itself. In order to use the AP designation for any course, a school must submit extensive documentation to show that the course meets the very narrow focus of the AP curriculum. Another determining factor in our decision was that teachers found themselves having to cut seminal information from their curriculum to ensure students were prepared to take the APs in May. Because of the nature of AP exams, this meant U.S. history teachers were cutting units that allowed them and their students to perform deeper dives on issues such as racism and its institutionalization, the emergence of sexual minority liberation movements, and even the 1980s and the implosion of the USSR. The reality is that many of our students take AP exams and earn 4s and 5s on them, so the dropping of the AP designation has not had many deterimental effects. Most people who argue for AP courses do so because they fear their children will be at severe disadvantage when it comes to applying for colleges. As many people have pointed out in other posts on this board, colleges use their own calculations when comparing a student with a weighted GPA versus one whose GPA is unweighted.

Sure, Jan.
Because calculus 1 and 2 have such unique perspectives in the fancy private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, the top privates in the DMV collectively decided to do away with APs so they could appear different and better than the top DMV publics and justify charging their exorbitant tuitions. It was such an obvious move tbat the Justice Department actually looked into whether they violated antitrust laws.

Having said that, colleges make clear that (1) they judge your kids record by reference to the specific school that they attend, so if it doesn’t offer APs the college doesn’t expect to see APs or AP tests and (2) colleges don’t take AP exam scores into account in college admissions anyway. It’s taking the courses if they’re offered that they care about - not the scores in the exams afterwards. Remember, most students will take half or more of the AP exams that they’re ever going to take at the end of senior year, after they’ve already been admitted to college.

I served on one of the committees that decided to jettison the AP curriculum, and I can tell you that this lovely chesnut you put forth is clearly the product of your own demented fantasy and distrust of private schools. The main reason many of us supported getting rid of AP courses is because of all of the bureaucracy and red tape involved with dealing with the College Board, a questionable monopoly within itself. In order to use the AP designation for any course, a school must submit extensive documentation to show that the course meets the very narrow focus of the AP curriculum. Another determining factor in our decision was that teachers found themselves having to cut seminal information from their curriculum to ensure students were prepared to take the APs in May. Because of the nature of AP exams, this meant U.S. history teachers were cutting units that allowed them and their students to perform deeper dives on issues such as racism and its institutionalization, the emergence of sexual minority liberation movements, and even the 1980s and the implosion of the USSR. The reality is that many of our students take AP exams and earn 4s and 5s on them, so the dropping of the AP designation has not had many deterimental effects. Most people who argue for AP courses do so because they fear their children will be at severe disadvantage when it comes to applying for colleges. As many people have pointed out in other posts on this board, colleges use their own calculations when comparing a student with a weighted GPA versus one whose GPA is unweighted.

Sure, Jan.
Because calculus 1 and 2 have such unique perspectives in the fancy private schools.

Exactly. That reasoning makes very little sense for science, math, and language courses. Why not keep those APs rather than forcing kids to self-study for the AP exams?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've been trying to figure this out also. We talked to a college counselor about it and have landed on 6 APs. The theory is because this is work completed outside of school, we shouldn't need as many as high-stats public school kids (10-14) but want to cover core courses - math, english, science, etc.

AP classes/scores will *maybe* help with US college apps, but are necessary for UK uni apps.

+1 college counselors have said that without the subject matter SATs and the test optional SAT/ACT, AP exams are the missing piece that many colleges are comfortable using to compare kids across schools after they have whittled down the within-school comparison. It just isn't entirely true that your are never compared to kids from other schools.

Most kids don’t submit ap scores and a lot of public school kids do not even take the exams.

This is not true. Everyone who has a score above a 3 submits it. And the public schools are filled with kids with 4s and 5s because the curriculum matches the test. APs exams are free to public school kids and are a part of the regular school day, so they ALL take them. At DC private they have APs and the kids are REQUIRED to take them if they are taking the course.

No it’s not true. Kids with 5 aps often only take the tests for subset. Why? Because it costs money to take each test. And most kids don’t submit their AP scores, even if they do well. There are multiple threads in the college forum where this is discussed.

If private school kids are at any disadvantage with admissions (and they don’t seem to be at our private), it’s because of grade deflation not lack of APs.

[Anonymous]

Lots of universities, like Columbia, use good AP scores to let you opt out of prerequisites.

APs are probably more important for publics and second-tier privates. A 5 in AP Calc 2 says you really know the material, you didn’t just coast with an easy-grading teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, the top privates in the DMV collectively decided to do away with APs so they could appear different and better than the top DMV publics and justify charging their exorbitant tuitions. It was such an obvious move tbat the Justice Department actually looked into whether they violated antitrust laws.

Having said that, colleges make clear that (1) they judge your kids record by reference to the specific school that they attend, so if it doesn’t offer APs the college doesn’t expect to see APs or AP tests and (2) colleges don’t take AP exam scores into account in college admissions anyway. It’s taking the courses if they’re offered that they care about - not the scores in the exams afterwards. Remember, most students will take half or more of the AP exams that they’re ever going to take at the end of senior year, after they’ve already been admitted to college.

I served on one of the committees that decided to jettison the AP curriculum, and I can tell you that this lovely chesnut you put forth is clearly the product of your own demented fantasy and distrust of private schools. The main reason many of us supported getting rid of AP courses is because of all of the bureaucracy and red tape involved with dealing with the College Board, a questionable monopoly within itself. In order to use the AP designation for any course, a school must submit extensive documentation to show that the course meets the very narrow focus of the AP curriculum. Another determining factor in our decision was that teachers found themselves having to cut seminal information from their curriculum to ensure students were prepared to take the APs in May. Because of the nature of AP exams, this meant U.S. history teachers were cutting units that allowed them and their students to perform deeper dives on issues such as racism and its institutionalization, the emergence of sexual minority liberation movements, and even the 1980s and the implosion of the USSR. The reality is that many of our students take AP exams and earn 4s and 5s on them, so the dropping of the AP designation has not had many deterimental effects. Most people who argue for AP courses do so because they fear their children will be at severe disadvantage when it comes to applying for colleges. As many people have pointed out in other posts on this board, colleges use their own calculations when comparing a student with a weighted GPA versus one whose GPA is unweighted.

Sure, Jan.
Because calculus 1 and 2 have such unique perspectives in the fancy private schools.

I've since left the school, but my sense is that the AP designation still applies to some match, science, and language courses. Our committee discussed the curriculum in other disciplines and how it was deterimental to those classes. But go on with your snark and your pithy responses. We all know how productive those comments can be in an otherwise serious discussion among adults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, the top privates in the DMV collectively decided to do away with APs so they could appear different and better than the top DMV publics and justify charging their exorbitant tuitions. It was such an obvious move tbat the Justice Department actually looked into whether they violated antitrust laws.

Having said that, colleges make clear that (1) they judge your kids record by reference to the specific school that they attend, so if it doesn’t offer APs the college doesn’t expect to see APs or AP tests and (2) colleges don’t take AP exam scores into account in college admissions anyway. It’s taking the courses if they’re offered that they care about - not the scores in the exams afterwards. Remember, most students will take half or more of the AP exams that they’re ever going to take at the end of senior year, after they’ve already been admitted to college.

I served on one of the committees that decided to jettison the AP curriculum, and I can tell you that this lovely chesnut you put forth is clearly the product of your own demented fantasy and distrust of private schools. The main reason many of us supported getting rid of AP courses is because of all of the bureaucracy and red tape involved with dealing with the College Board, a questionable monopoly within itself. In order to use the AP designation for any course, a school must submit extensive documentation to show that the course meets the very narrow focus of the AP curriculum. Another determining factor in our decision was that teachers found themselves having to cut seminal information from their curriculum to ensure students were prepared to take the APs in May. Because of the nature of AP exams, this meant U.S. history teachers were cutting units that allowed them and their students to perform deeper dives on issues such as racism and its institutionalization, the emergence of sexual minority liberation movements, and even the 1980s and the implosion of the USSR. The reality is that many of our students take AP exams and earn 4s and 5s on them, so the dropping of the AP designation has not had many deterimental effects. Most people who argue for AP courses do so because they fear their children will be at severe disadvantage when it comes to applying for colleges. As many people have pointed out in other posts on this board, colleges use their own calculations when comparing a student with a weighted GPA versus one whose GPA is unweighted.

Sure, Jan.
Because calculus 1 and 2 have such unique perspectives in the fancy private schools.

I've since left the school, but my sense is that the AP designation still applies to some match, science, and language courses. Our committee discussed the curriculum in other disciplines and how it was deterimental to those classes. But go on with your snark and your pithy responses. We all know how productive those comments can be in an otherwise serious discussion among adults.

DP: Other schools still manage to teach and incorporate the topics you mention. Nothing about AP precludes you from covering it in your AP class or even having another entirely different class on it for interested kids if you want to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids are taking the AP tests privately, not the classes. They are studying on their own.

As far as I understand it, the schools are only "approved" to proctor AP exams for classes they offer.
I was looking into having my kid take AP World History and my kid's DC private does not offer the exam and neither does Jackson Reed (because they don't offer the AP world history class either).
I would have to contact Walls or Banneker or MCPS.

For what it's worth, we decided against this as I got a review book and the content differences are pretty significant (what my kid has learned vs. what is on the exam).

Curious how there were different?

For example, my one kid learned an absolute ton of detail about China but really nothing about the Aztecs/Incas. They both got an incredible understanding of the big principles (things like colonialism, revolution, industrialism, etc etc ) but would
now have to go back and see (for the first time) a lot of specifics of the history. It is very clear the teachers are not "teaching to the test" and just getting XYZ facts out about XYX cultures. They are teaching big concepts.

Th AP course are structured around big concepts. The study guide book tells you nothing about how different teachers approach the course in a classroom. The study guides are supplements, not the course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, the top privates in the DMV collectively decided to do away with APs so they could appear different and better than the top DMV publics and justify charging their exorbitant tuitions. It was such an obvious move tbat the Justice Department actually looked into whether they violated antitrust laws.

Having said that, colleges make clear that (1) they judge your kids record by reference to the specific school that they attend, so if it doesn’t offer APs the college doesn’t expect to see APs or AP tests and (2) colleges don’t take AP exam scores into account in college admissions anyway. It’s taking the courses if they’re offered that they care about - not the scores in the exams afterwards. Remember, most students will take half or more of the AP exams that they’re ever going to take at the end of senior year, after they’ve already been admitted to college.

I served on one of the committees that decided to jettison the AP curriculum, and I can tell you that this lovely chesnut you put forth is clearly the product of your own demented fantasy and distrust of private schools. The main reason many of us supported getting rid of AP courses is because of all of the bureaucracy and red tape involved with dealing with the College Board, a questionable monopoly within itself. In order to use the AP designation for any course, a school must submit extensive documentation to show that the course meets the very narrow focus of the AP curriculum. Another determining factor in our decision was that teachers found themselves having to cut seminal information from their curriculum to ensure students were prepared to take the APs in May. Because of the nature of AP exams, this meant U.S. history teachers were cutting units that allowed them and their students to perform deeper dives on issues such as racism and its institutionalization, the emergence of sexual minority liberation movements, and even the 1980s and the implosion of the USSR. The reality is that many of our students take AP exams and earn 4s and 5s on them, so the dropping of the AP designation has not had many deterimental effects. Most people who argue for AP courses do so because they fear their children will be at severe disadvantage when it comes to applying for colleges. As many people have pointed out in other posts on this board, colleges use their own calculations when comparing a student with a weighted GPA versus one whose GPA is unweighted.

Sure, Jan.
Because calculus 1 and 2 have such unique perspectives in the fancy private schools.

I've since left the school, but my sense is that the AP designation still applies to some match, science, and language courses. Our committee discussed the curriculum in other disciplines and how it was deterimental to those classes. But go on with your snark and your pithy responses. We all know how productive those comments can be in an otherwise serious discussion among adults.

Well, that was a convenient omission on your part. Did your school drop APs for STEM? What did your committee recommend wrt to those classes or did you skip them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The kids are taking the AP tests privately, not the classes. They are studying on their own.

As far as I understand it, the schools are only "approved" to proctor AP exams for classes they offer.
I was looking into having my kid take AP World History and my kid's DC private does not offer the exam and neither does Jackson Reed (because they don't offer the AP world history class either).
I would have to contact Walls or Banneker or MCPS.

For what it's worth, we decided against this as I got a review book and the content differences are pretty significant (what my kid has learned vs. what is on the exam).

Curious how there were different?

For example, my one kid learned an absolute ton of detail about China but really nothing about the Aztecs/Incas. They both got an incredible understanding of the big principles (things like colonialism, revolution, industrialism, etc etc ) but would
now have to go back and see (for the first time) a lot of specifics of the history. It is very clear the teachers are not "teaching to the test" and just getting XYZ facts out about XYX cultures. They are teaching big concepts.

Th AP course are structured around big concepts. The study guide book tells you nothing about how different teachers approach the course in a classroom. The study guides are supplements, not the course.

And the review books are not the text books used in the courses. For example, my DC noted that the college calculus text his roommate is using is the same one he had in AP Calc BC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, the top privates in the DMV collectively decided to do away with APs so they could appear different and better than the top DMV publics and justify charging their exorbitant tuitions. It was such an obvious move tbat the Justice Department actually looked into whether they violated antitrust laws.

Having said that, colleges make clear that (1) they judge your kids record by reference to the specific school that they attend, so if it doesn’t offer APs the college doesn’t expect to see APs or AP tests and (2) colleges don’t take AP exam scores into account in college admissions anyway. It’s taking the courses if they’re offered that they care about - not the scores in the exams afterwards. Remember, most students will take half or more of the AP exams that they’re ever going to take at the end of senior year, after they’ve already been admitted to college.

I served on one of the committees that decided to jettison the AP curriculum, and I can tell you that this lovely chesnut you put forth is clearly the product of your own demented fantasy and distrust of private schools. The main reason many of us supported getting rid of AP courses is because of all of the bureaucracy and red tape involved with dealing with the College Board, a questionable monopoly within itself. In order to use the AP designation for any course, a school must submit extensive documentation to show that the course meets the very narrow focus of the AP curriculum. Another determining factor in our decision was that teachers found themselves having to cut seminal information from their curriculum to ensure students were prepared to take the APs in May. Because of the nature of AP exams, this meant U.S. history teachers were cutting units that allowed them and their students to perform deeper dives on issues such as racism and its institutionalization, the emergence of sexual minority liberation movements, and even the 1980s and the implosion of the USSR. The reality is that many of our students take AP exams and earn 4s and 5s on them, so the dropping of the AP designation has not had many deterimental effects. Most people who argue for AP courses do so because they fear their children will be at severe disadvantage when it comes to applying for colleges. As many people have pointed out in other posts on this board, colleges use their own calculations when comparing a student with a weighted GPA versus one whose GPA is unweighted.

Sure, Jan.
Because calculus 1 and 2 have such unique perspectives in the fancy private schools.

I've since left the school, but my sense is that the AP designation still applies to some match, science, and language courses. Our committee discussed the curriculum in other disciplines and how it was deterimental to those classes. But go on with your snark and your pithy responses. We all know how productive those comments can be in an otherwise serious discussion among adults.

So your school didn't decide " to jettison the AP curriculum" and your teachers didn't have "to cut seminal information from their curriculum "
They are still offering AP classes in math, science, and language courses. So basically your school decided it didn't want to offer a survey course of US History. A totally fine, understandable, and reasonable decision that has nothing to do with the AP curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We've been trying to figure this out also. We talked to a college counselor about it and have landed on 6 APs. The theory is because this is work completed outside of school, we shouldn't need as many as high-stats public school kids (10-14) but want to cover core courses - math, english, science, etc.

AP classes/scores will *maybe* help with US college apps, but are necessary for UK uni apps.

+1 college counselors have said that without the subject matter SATs and the test optional SAT/ACT, AP exams are the missing piece that many colleges are comfortable using to compare kids across schools after they have whittled down the within-school comparison. It just isn't entirely true that your are never compared to kids from other schools.

Most kids don’t submit ap scores and a lot of public school kids do not even take the exams.

This is not true. Everyone who has a score above a 3 submits it. And the public schools are filled with kids with 4s and 5s because the curriculum matches the test. APs exams are free to public school kids and are a part of the regular school day, so they ALL take them. At DC private they have APs and the kids are REQUIRED to take them if they are taking the course.

No it’s not true. Kids with 5 aps often only take the tests for subset. Why? Because it costs money to take each test. And most kids don’t submit their AP scores, even if they do well. There are multiple threads in the college forum where this is discussed.

If private school kids are at any disadvantage with admissions (and they don’t seem to be at our private), it’s because of grade deflation not lack of APs.

Why on earth would any kid not take and submit? Unless they are a senior and know their chosen college won't accept it for credit?

My current senior will start at MD with over 30 credits. Maybe close to 40.

Most will be useful too. Why would anyone take freshman english or Calc 1 (or 1&2) if they didn't have to? Or refuse practically free Gen ed credits?

[Anonymous]

My DC at a DMV highly competitive private took AP Foreign Language, AP US History, AP Calc AB, AP English Literature by Junior year. All were taken at school (and arranged via school). Only Calc AB was a true AP class but they had no problems studying for History/English. They did some extra work for Language .

They have signed up for more in Senior Spring (AP English Lang, Calc BC, Science), but will only take the exams if their chosen college will accept the additional AP's in a meaningful way.

Their college application list includes some T10 schools (they have stats to support lottery chance) but also ranges through Top 60 and some SLACS that'd probably be outside of T100 if combined with national universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How would they do this?

Put your kid back in public if your school does not have AP's and you want a top college.

No one is going from a private that does shadow AP's to an IVY LOL

Of course they are. Many private schools stopped offering AP classes and are doing their own thing which they consider equivalent, without paying College Board for the AP name.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The kids are taking the AP tests privately, not the classes. They are studying on their own.

As far as I understand it, the schools are only "approved" to proctor AP exams for classes they offer.
I was looking into having my kid take AP World History and my kid's DC private does not offer the exam and neither does Jackson Reed (because they don't offer the AP world history class either).
I would have to contact Walls or Banneker or MCPS.

For what it's worth, we decided against this as I got a review book and the content differences are pretty significant (what my kid has learned vs. what is on the exam).

This is not true. Our school offers to proctor a wide range of AP exam for in subjects that they are not teaching a certified AP course. Simplest examples are AP Literature and AP US History. These are the most commonly taken AP exams at our school, but the school doesn't teach AP courses - just their own 11th grade English and US History that everyone has to take.