Can someone be honest? How many APs did your kid take privately?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC has not taken any AP exams. Will attend an Ivy League school this fall. Top grades, many honors classes. Not an athlete, legacy, or URM.

What got them in then? Lucky draw from the pool of 1600/4.0 ED applicants? Rigor is usually a major factor.

Many honors classes = rigor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many threads on this here.

GDS dropped AP courses but still offer proctored AP tests. Many faculty in UL classes end up teaching side sessions in April to help kids prep for AP tests.

The irony is that in the official GDS college profile sent to universities, they still list how many kids took AP tests and how many tests taken in total.

Way to walk the talk

For all the "relax guys" GDS hoo ha, they actually further the arms race with stuff like this

"ADVANCED PLACEMENT EXAMS
In May 2022, 80 GDS high school students sat for 113 Advanced
Placement examinations; 38% earned scores of 5, 80% earned
scores of 4 or above, and 91% earned scores of 3 or above."

The reality is that many kids who plan to apply for Top 50 schools started self study taking APs at GDS in junior year. Also kids who planned to apply to UK schools as well as kids who planned to apply to state flagships which increasingly actually do look at APs NOT just for course credit but also as a signal of rigor - especially when they don't know that the cabal of DC schools stopped offering AP courses. And the kids in public schools and many parts of the country are taking 7 - 14 AP tests by end of senior year. For average UCLA or Berkeley admit, i think close to 12 APs....

Longer story but many of the junior class at GDS took at least one AP test last year (the now seniors) - except CC office discouraged this and yet told colleges proudly how many GDS kids took APs. so yeah....there's good consistency for you.

Only this year did this GDS CO start actually telling freshman kids and parents that you should start to plan to take AP tests if you want to apply to UK or get course credit at many US schools (not Ivies)

Until this year, they only told families in junior year and by then it was too late to sign up for junior spring AP tests for self-study so only parents who pushed hard or had outside help even knew to sign up for AP tests for their kids.

I don't get it...I can understand why you may officially drop the AP designation (as a PP listed all the college board nonsense), but the school can still offer all the AP tests you did previously and tell teachers to spend a measly 2 weeks helping kids prep for the test. I am sure the teachers basically taught the AP curriculum, but it is just like SAT/ACT prep...you spend 2 weeks teaching to the test.

Seems like that is a win-win for everyone.

GDS parent here - it seems to me like mixed messaging. The college office seems to dislike AP testing, discourages AP testing, and until this year didn't even discuss it proactively. AND YET, they include AP testing metrics in the college profile sent to universities.

Meanwhile, several of the "old school" faculty still believe in AP testing (even if they don't strictly teach AP curriculum any more...basically rebranded UL courses are 85-90% of AP curriculum as one told me). Those faculty take it upon themselves to organize 2-3 weeks of extra help sessions for kids taking the testing and self-studying.

I just dont understand why they run it this way. It's mind boggling lack of transparency and two sides of the house not speaking to each other. Almost every parent I know is annoyed at this and just wishes the school spoke with one voice and was consistent. Just pick one side and do it. What they are doing is the worst of all worlds. If the spirit is for "equity" then how is it equitable to not tell kids about testing that could benefit applications to UK schools or skipping college 100-level core classes - that's financial and choice equity no? The icing on the including of AP testing results to college reporting when you told the last 3 classes including these seniors to NOT take the tests, On every parent and kid zoom, college office told them last 3 years, "do not take AP tests" - clearly many did and now GDS decides that it's worth reporting that to colleges.

So, AP testing at GDS has become this secret thing that school tries to avoid talking about, downplays even the sign-up emails in October each year etc and yet some teachers actually encourage but very quietly.... I dont know if school is afraid of the lingering impact of DOJ investigation of DMV school collusion allegations, if college office and faculty disagree or it's something systemic around standardized testing that the school's value system doesnt believe in

But it leaves parents -- ok this parent -- wonder what they are doing or if they even realize it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, the top privates in the DMV collectively decided to do away with APs so they could appear different and better than the top DMV publics and justify charging their exorbitant tuitions. It was such an obvious move tbat the Justice Department actually looked into whether they violated antitrust laws.

Having said that, colleges make clear that (1) they judge your kids record by reference to the specific school that they attend, so if it doesn’t offer APs the college doesn’t expect to see APs or AP tests and (2) colleges don’t take AP exam scores into account in college admissions anyway. It’s taking the courses if they’re offered that they care about - not the scores in the exams afterwards. Remember, most students will take half or more of the AP exams that they’re ever going to take at the end of senior year, after they’ve already been admitted to college.

I served on one of the committees that decided to jettison the AP curriculum, and I can tell you that this lovely chesnut you put forth is clearly the product of your own demented fantasy and distrust of private schools. The main reason many of us supported getting rid of AP courses is because of all of the bureaucracy and red tape involved with dealing with the College Board, a questionable monopoly within itself. In order to use the AP designation for any course, a school must submit extensive documentation to show that the course meets the very narrow focus of the AP curriculum. Another determining factor in our decision was that teachers found themselves having to cut seminal information from their curriculum to ensure students were prepared to take the APs in May. Because of the nature of AP exams, this meant U.S. history teachers were cutting units that allowed them and their students to perform deeper dives on issues such as racism and its institutionalization, the emergence of sexual minority liberation movements, and even the 1980s and the implosion of the USSR. The reality is that many of our students take AP exams and earn 4s and 5s on them, so the dropping of the AP designation has not had many deterimental effects. Most people who argue for AP courses do so because they fear their children will be at severe disadvantage when it comes to applying for colleges. As many people have pointed out in other posts on this board, colleges use their own calculations when comparing a student with a weighted GPA versus one whose GPA is unweighted.

Sure, Jan.
Because calculus 1 and 2 have such unique perspectives in the fancy private schools.

This. All the STEM APs cover standard first year college content.
Also, there is no extensive documentation required. They ask you to submit an approved syllabus.
All you have to do is submit one of their standard approved ones. You can submit one of the approved syllabi that are easily available on their site. Then you ignore it and teach how you want (while also making sure to cover all the topics covered in the exam).
You only have to submit the documentation once unless a new teacher takes over the course

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many threads on this here.

GDS dropped AP courses but still offer proctored AP tests. Many faculty in UL classes end up teaching side sessions in April to help kids prep for AP tests.

The irony is that in the official GDS college profile sent to universities, they still list how many kids took AP tests and how many tests taken in total.

Way to walk the talk

For all the "relax guys" GDS hoo ha, they actually further the arms race with stuff like this

"ADVANCED PLACEMENT EXAMS
In May 2022, 80 GDS high school students sat for 113 Advanced
Placement examinations; 38% earned scores of 5, 80% earned
scores of 4 or above, and 91% earned scores of 3 or above."

The reality is that many kids who plan to apply for Top 50 schools started self study taking APs at GDS in junior year. Also kids who planned to apply to UK schools as well as kids who planned to apply to state flagships which increasingly actually do look at APs NOT just for course credit but also as a signal of rigor - especially when they don't know that the cabal of DC schools stopped offering AP courses. And the kids in public schools and many parts of the country are taking 7 - 14 AP tests by end of senior year. For average UCLA or Berkeley admit, i think close to 12 APs....

Longer story but many of the junior class at GDS took at least one AP test last year (the now seniors) - except CC office discouraged this and yet told colleges proudly how many GDS kids took APs. so yeah....there's good consistency for you.

Only this year did this GDS CO start actually telling freshman kids and parents that you should start to plan to take AP tests if you want to apply to UK or get course credit at many US schools (not Ivies)

Until this year, they only told families in junior year and by then it was too late to sign up for junior spring AP tests for self-study so only parents who pushed hard or had outside help even knew to sign up for AP tests for their kids.

I don't get it...I can understand why you may officially drop the AP designation (as a PP listed all the college board nonsense), but the school can still offer all the AP tests you did previously and tell teachers to spend a measly 2 weeks helping kids prep for the test. I am sure the teachers basically taught the AP curriculum, but it is just like SAT/ACT prep...you spend 2 weeks teaching to the test.

Seems like that is a win-win for everyone.

GDS parent here - it seems to me like mixed messaging. The college office seems to dislike AP testing, discourages AP testing, and until this year didn't even discuss it proactively. AND YET, they include AP testing metrics in the college profile sent to universities.

Meanwhile, several of the "old school" faculty still believe in AP testing (even if they don't strictly teach AP curriculum any more...basically rebranded UL courses are 85-90% of AP curriculum as one told me). Those faculty take it upon themselves to organize 2-3 weeks of extra help sessions for kids taking the testing and self-studying.

I just dont understand why they run it this way. It's mind boggling lack of transparency and two sides of the house not speaking to each other. Almost every parent I know is annoyed at this and just wishes the school spoke with one voice and was consistent. Just pick one side and do it. What they are doing is the worst of all worlds. If the spirit is for "equity" then how is it equitable to not tell kids about testing that could benefit applications to UK schools or skipping college 100-level core classes - that's financial and choice equity no? The icing on the including of AP testing results to college reporting when you told the last 3 classes including these seniors to NOT take the tests, On every parent and kid zoom, college office told them last 3 years, "do not take AP tests" - clearly many did and now GDS decides that it's worth reporting that to colleges.

So, AP testing at GDS has become this secret thing that school tries to avoid talking about, downplays even the sign-up emails in October each year etc and yet some teachers actually encourage but very quietly.... I dont know if school is afraid of the lingering impact of DOJ investigation of DMV school collusion allegations, if college office and faculty disagree or it's something systemic around standardized testing that the school's value system doesnt believe in

But it leaves parents -- ok this parent -- wonder what they are doing or if they even realize it?

Sounds like many teachers didn’t agree with the decision. I think the school doesn’t want to backtrack now on the theory that it would mean admitting it was the wrong decision. Actually, admitting that the decision has not played out well with the advent of test optional, or at least acknowledging openly that AP exams are still helpful to students (and not discouraging them), would show that the school is able to adjust to changed circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Having students study on their own and sit for AP tests just seems like a way to add additional stress on students who are already struggling with high levels of anxiety and stress. How is this a good thing?
And what if a student doesn’t think about applying to UK schools until senior year. Sucks to be them at that point I guess.
I thought Canadian schools like McGill also like to see AP scores.

Now it makes sense why our private school (Holton) strongly pushes small liberal arts colleges.
Private small colleges have more time to read through applications and are less reliant on standard metrics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC has not taken any AP exams. Will attend an Ivy League school this fall. Top grades, many honors classes. Not an athlete, legacy, or URM.

What got them in then? Lucky draw from the pool of 1600/4.0 ED applicants? Rigor is usually a major factor.

Rigor is in the context of what the school offers. Schools that don’t offer AP still have honors and advanced classes. In this context, to show that you took the most rigorous course at the school you would have to take honors and advanced courses.

And that doesn't help much anymore. Times have changed. Look, when the schools decided to drop APs they could not have predicted what happened when COVID hit,. They could not have predicted that SAT subject matter tests would go away and that most schools would become test optional. Colleges are left with APs as the last thing they can look to for some level of standardization across schools. It matters more now than it used to, which is probably why some schools that said they were dropping APs actually have not done so -- they saw what the testing change would mean.

A lot of kids are not even taking the AP exam so colleges are only seeing the grade they got in the class, grading that is still school specific. In the scenario where kids are not taking the exam there is really no difference between an honors/advanced class and an AP class.

In part, but kids start taking APs in 9th so a pattern of scores is predictive of the senior year scores, especially if the grades support that. Also, colleges know what AP courses are, it's the point of having standards; they have no idea what every random schools' honors class is teaching.

They also start taking honors classes in 9th grade. Colleges get the course curriculum from each high school; the information that is covered in AP is usually also covered in advanced classes offered by school. The schools that are dropping AP are usually known for academic rigor and colleges trust this so why wouldn’t they trust the rigor of the advanced classes? I understand the benefits of a standardized program I just don’t like college boards monopoly on APs and the hoops schools have to go through.

This is the key question: why wouldn’t colleges trust these schools? The fact is, though, that it looks like at the same time that SFS, STA, NCS, and GDS announced they were dropping APs, they also all reduced the number of high-scoring 9th graders they admitted. So it could be that what students in the class of 2023 are seeing is that they’re at the top of the class, and what colleges are seeing is that the class of 2023 looks unusually weak compared to past classes.

What? How could you know that they reduced the number of high scoring 9th graders they admitted? And again, STA and NCS still have APs.

People here confuse their conspiracy theories with reality on an hourly basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC has not taken any AP exams. Will attend an Ivy League school this fall. Top grades, many honors classes. Not an athlete, legacy, or URM.

What got them in then? Lucky draw from the pool of 1600/4.0 ED applicants? Rigor is usually a major factor.

Rigor is in the context of what the school offers. Schools that don’t offer AP still have honors and advanced classes. In this context, to show that you took the most rigorous course at the school you would have to take honors and advanced courses.

And that doesn't help much anymore. Times have changed. Look, when the schools decided to drop APs they could not have predicted what happened when COVID hit,. They could not have predicted that SAT subject matter tests would go away and that most schools would become test optional. Colleges are left with APs as the last thing they can look to for some level of standardization across schools. It matters more now than it used to, which is probably why some schools that said they were dropping APs actually have not done so -- they saw what the testing change would mean.

A lot of kids are not even taking the AP exam so colleges are only seeing the grade they got in the class, grading that is still school specific. In the scenario where kids are not taking the exam there is really no difference between an honors/advanced class and an AP class.

In part, but kids start taking APs in 9th so a pattern of scores is predictive of the senior year scores, especially if the grades support that. Also, colleges know what AP courses are, it's the point of having standards; they have no idea what every random schools' honors class is teaching.

They also start taking honors classes in 9th grade. Colleges get the course curriculum from each high school; the information that is covered in AP is usually also covered in advanced classes offered by school. The schools that are dropping AP are usually known for academic rigor and colleges trust this so why wouldn’t they trust the rigor of the advanced classes? I understand the benefits of a standardized program I just don’t like college boards monopoly on APs and the hoops schools have to go through.

This is the key question: why wouldn’t colleges trust these schools? The fact is, though, that it looks like at the same time that SFS, STA, NCS, and GDS announced they were dropping APs, they also all reduced the number of high-scoring 9th graders they admitted. So it could be that what students in the class of 2023 are seeing is that they’re at the top of the class, and what colleges are seeing is that the class of 2023 looks unusually weak compared to past classes.

What? How could you know that they reduced the number of high scoring 9th graders they admitted? And again, STA and NCS still have APs.

People here confuse their conspiracy theories with reality on an hourly basis.

Perhaps the assumption is that since these schools did away with standardized testing as part of the admissions process they are likely admitting lower scoring admits during these years? Possible, but they have to be strong students to get in anyway.

[Anonymous]

I will of course never know but kid submitted five AP tests (4 taken at private HS and 1 taken without AP class) with a score of 5 and got into REA school.

It feels like the scores helped.

[Anonymous]

Why are the privates getting rid of AP? Is it to make the curriculum more URM friendly? We applied to one school that is getting rid of their remaining APs just in time for DC's entry into 9th...and we can't see a description of these new classes yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC has not taken any AP exams. Will attend an Ivy League school this fall. Top grades, many honors classes. Not an athlete, legacy, or URM.

What got them in then? Lucky draw from the pool of 1600/4.0 ED applicants? Rigor is usually a major factor.

Rigor is in the context of what the school offers. Schools that don’t offer AP still have honors and advanced classes. In this context, to show that you took the most rigorous course at the school you would have to take honors and advanced courses.

And that doesn't help much anymore. Times have changed. Look, when the schools decided to drop APs they could not have predicted what happened when COVID hit,. They could not have predicted that SAT subject matter tests would go away and that most schools would become test optional. Colleges are left with APs as the last thing they can look to for some level of standardization across schools. It matters more now than it used to, which is probably why some schools that said they were dropping APs actually have not done so -- they saw what the testing change would mean.

A lot of kids are not even taking the AP exam so colleges are only seeing the grade they got in the class, grading that is still school specific. In the scenario where kids are not taking the exam there is really no difference between an honors/advanced class and an AP class.

In part, but kids start taking APs in 9th so a pattern of scores is predictive of the senior year scores, especially if the grades support that. Also, colleges know what AP courses are, it's the point of having standards; they have no idea what every random schools' honors class is teaching.

They also start taking honors classes in 9th grade. Colleges get the course curriculum from each high school; the information that is covered in AP is usually also covered in advanced classes offered by school. The schools that are dropping AP are usually known for academic rigor and colleges trust this so why wouldn’t they trust the rigor of the advanced classes? I understand the benefits of a standardized program I just don’t like college boards monopoly on APs and the hoops schools have to go through.

This is the key question: why wouldn’t colleges trust these schools? The fact is, though, that it looks like at the same time that SFS, STA, NCS, and GDS announced they were dropping APs, they also all reduced the number of high-scoring 9th graders they admitted. So it could be that what students in the class of 2023 are seeing is that they’re at the top of the class, and what colleges are seeing is that the class of 2023 looks unusually weak compared to past classes.

What? How could you know that they reduced the number of high scoring 9th graders they admitted? And again, STA and NCS still have APs.

People here confuse their conspiracy theories with reality on an hourly basis.

Perhaps the assumption is that since these schools did away with standardized testing as part of the admissions process they are likely admitting lower scoring admits during these years? Possible, but they have to be strong students to get in anyway.

It’s not a “conspiracy theory.” It’s just that the count of students from elite privates on the presidential scholars eligibility list fell off a cliff this year.

Here are the lists from 2018-2023:

https://edu.wyoming.gov/for-parents-students/usps/

Sidwell:
Range, 2018-2022: 9-19
Average, 2018-2022: 12
Count, 2023: 6

St. Albans/NCS:
Range, 2018-2022: 9-18
Average, 2018-2022: 14
Count, 2023: 4

GDS:
Range, 2018-2022: 5-11
Average, 2018-2022: 8
Count, 2023: 4

Meanwhile …

WIS:
Range, 2018-2022: 0-4
Average, 2018-2022: 2
Count, 2023: 8

School Without Walls:
Range, 2018-2022: 3-7
Average, 2018-2022: 5
Count, 2023: 11
Average SAT score for juniors and seniors
- 2018-19: 1277
- 2021-22: 1317
https://dcps.dc.gov/publication/dcps-data-set-sat

A “conspiracy theory” would be “at the same time they agreed to drop AP courses, the private schools also agreed to caps on high-scoring 9th grade admits.” I don’t have any of the inside information that would be necessary to make such a claim. And I can think of some alternate explanations. (For example, maybe the announcement that they were dropping APs caused applications from high-scoring 8th graders to fall off a cliff.) I’m just saying that, on the available evidence, the distribution of high-scoring students at local schools seems to have altered dramatically for the Class of ‘23 compared to historical patterns.

[Anonymous]

It seems like a big mess and I’m guessing the private schools are regretting their stance on AP courses. Now we are all stuck with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems like a big mess and I’m guessing the private schools are regretting their stance on AP courses. Now we are all stuck with it.

I mean, you are not stuck with it. Publics and many local privates still have APs. No one is forcing you to pay for a school without them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems like a big mess and I’m guessing the private schools are regretting their stance on AP courses. Now we are all stuck with it.

I really don’t think the privates that got rid of APs have any regrets.

[Anonymous]

Why did they get rid of them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems like a big mess and I’m guessing the private schools are regretting their stance on AP courses. Now we are all stuck with it.

GDS parent. This is it tough to fix. Albans restored AP courses despite being part of the original 7 schools who declared they would drop.

It would be easy for GDS and Sidwell to do this. But there is an anti-testing bias at GDS in the administration. Equity blah blah blah.