Can someone be honest? How many APs did your kid take privately?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like a big mess and I’m guessing the private schools are regretting their stance on AP courses. Now we are all stuck with it.

I really don’t think the privates that got rid of APs have any regrets.

Sounds like a lot of the parents whose kids attend those privates do have regrets. This has been an interesting thread. I’d be very unhappy with the inconsistent messaging described at GDS if I had a kid there.

[Anonymous]

Meanwhile, the AP program itself is facing lots of controversy. Not just from the AP Af Am issues in FL but even more broad pushback in conservative states

Thread https://twitter.com/hookedonjohnics/status/1624432347503288321

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like a big mess and I’m guessing the private schools are regretting their stance on AP courses. Now we are all stuck with it.

I really don’t think the privates that got rid of APs have any regrets.

Sounds like a lot of the parents whose kids attend those privates do have regrets. This has been an interesting thread. I’d be very unhappy with the inconsistent messaging described at GDS if I had a kid there.

GDS parent. We are not happy with it but have been very happy with the school otherwise. So we appreciate the top notch teachers and rigor and just ignore the messaging on AP exams. Our DC says most kids they know also sign up for AP exams despite the discouragement, and the school still administers them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like a big mess and I’m guessing the private schools are regretting their stance on AP courses. Now we are all stuck with it.

I really don’t think the privates that got rid of APs have any regrets.

Sounds like a lot of the parents whose kids attend those privates do have regrets. This has been an interesting thread. I’d be very unhappy with the inconsistent messaging described at GDS if I had a kid there.

GDS parent. We are not happy with it but have been very happy with the school otherwise. So we appreciate the top notch teachers and rigor and just ignore the messaging on AP exams. Our DC says most kids they know also sign up for AP exams despite the discouragement, and the school still administers them.

Same. GDS parent here. We have loved the teaching for the most part (especially HS, MS was more variable). The collage office has been pretty good on most things and super bad on this AP issue. It’s left a bad taste in our mouth TBH. This senior class was not told clearly in sophomore year and September junior year what to do on APs. I’m glad some figured it out. Many kids did not and it limited college choices or chances to bypass 100 level college classes. Disappointing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like a big mess and I’m guessing the private schools are regretting their stance on AP courses. Now we are all stuck with it.

I really don’t think the privates that got rid of APs have any regrets.

Sounds like a lot of the parents whose kids attend those privates do have regrets. This has been an interesting thread. I’d be very unhappy with the inconsistent messaging described at GDS if I had a kid there.

GDS parent. We are not happy with it but have been very happy with the school otherwise. So we appreciate the top notch teachers and rigor and just ignore the messaging on AP exams. Our DC says most kids they know also sign up for AP exams despite the discouragement, and the school still administers them.

Same. GDS parent here. We have loved the teaching for the most part (especially HS, MS was more variable). The collage office has been pretty good on most things and super bad on this AP issue. It’s left a bad taste in our mouth TBH. This senior class was not told clearly in sophomore year and September junior year what to do on APs. I’m glad some figured it out. Many kids did not and it limited college choices or chances to bypass 100 level college classes. Disappointing

I would not call the college advising at GDS stellar in general. It is not uncommon to use a private counselor in addition to the counseling provided at GDS. It is worth doing if you can afford the extra expense

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC has not taken any AP exams. Will attend an Ivy League school this fall. Top grades, many honors classes. Not an athlete, legacy, or URM.

What got them in then? Lucky draw from the pool of 1600/4.0 ED applicants? Rigor is usually a major factor.

Rigor is in the context of what the school offers. Schools that don’t offer AP still have honors and advanced classes. In this context, to show that you took the most rigorous course at the school you would have to take honors and advanced courses.

And that doesn't help much anymore. Times have changed. Look, when the schools decided to drop APs they could not have predicted what happened when COVID hit,. They could not have predicted that SAT subject matter tests would go away and that most schools would become test optional. Colleges are left with APs as the last thing they can look to for some level of standardization across schools. It matters more now than it used to, which is probably why some schools that said they were dropping APs actually have not done so -- they saw what the testing change would mean.

Yes—have kids at 2 rigorous non-AP schools and feel they are essentially screwed. Yes they can take honors or advanced classes, but only some colleges will really consider their rigor. For the big state flagships/UCs your basically out of luck. Also, there is no question the private honors and advanced classes are rigorous, but there are no easy sources of support materials if you need help like there would be for AP classes which have tons of extra study materials/tutors if needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like a big mess and I’m guessing the private schools are regretting their stance on AP courses. Now we are all stuck with it.

I really don’t think the privates that got rid of APs have any regrets.

Sounds like a lot of the parents whose kids attend those privates do have regrets. This has been an interesting thread. I’d be very unhappy with the inconsistent messaging described at GDS if I had a kid there.

GDS parent. We are not happy with it but have been very happy with the school otherwise. So we appreciate the top notch teachers and rigor and just ignore the messaging on AP exams. Our DC says most kids they know also sign up for AP exams despite the discouragement, and the school still administers them.

Same. GDS parent here. We have loved the teaching for the most part (especially HS, MS was more variable). The collage office has been pretty good on most things and super bad on this AP issue. It’s left a bad taste in our mouth TBH. This senior class was not told clearly in sophomore year and September junior year what to do on APs. I’m glad some figured it out. Many kids did not and it limited college choices or chances to bypass 100 level college classes. Disappointing

I would not call the college advising at GDS stellar in general. It is not uncommon to use a private counselor in addition to the counseling provided at GDS. It is worth doing if you can afford the extra expense

Agree. GDS parent here. The college office seems overworked. Each manage 30-40 kids. One part time essay reader who I frankly thought was going through the motions when I saw their essay comments.

It’s shocking to me they don’t have double the number of people in that office for what they charge in tuition. Some big variability in quality and experience and advice between the various people working in the office. I’m guessing 90 percent of my kid’s friends there are using outside counselors. Another one of those GDS secrets that folks don’t talk about.

I’m actually not sure the outside counselors help that much but they are far more available and accessible than the GDS office has been during crunch time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Having students study on their own and sit for AP tests just seems like a way to add additional stress on students who are already struggling with high levels of anxiety and stress. How is this a good thing?
And what if a student doesn’t think about applying to UK schools until senior year. Sucks to be them at that point I guess.
I thought Canadian schools like McGill also like to see AP scores.

Now it makes sense why our private school (Holton) strongly pushes small liberal arts colleges.
Private small colleges have more time to read through applications and are less reliant on standard metrics

Agreed. So incredibly frustrated with school over the lack of transparency around AP testing and who should take what. Happened to mention to a teacher that my kid is taking an AP test and she said, lots of kids take that one. WTF! Why was this not explained by school!!!

NCS ended up keeping APs instead of phasing them out. Not having APs is turning out to be a huge detriment to our students with test optional.

[Anonymous]

Is this 6-7 AP exams taken before applications senior year? If so, that’s crazy. Poor kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC has not taken any AP exams. Will attend an Ivy League school this fall. Top grades, many honors classes. Not an athlete, legacy, or URM.

What got them in then? Lucky draw from the pool of 1600/4.0 ED applicants? Rigor is usually a major factor.

Rigor is in the context of what the school offers. Schools that don’t offer AP still have honors and advanced classes. In this context, to show that you took the most rigorous course at the school you would have to take honors and advanced courses.

And that doesn't help much anymore. Times have changed. Look, when the schools decided to drop APs they could not have predicted what happened when COVID hit,. They could not have predicted that SAT subject matter tests would go away and that most schools would become test optional. Colleges are left with APs as the last thing they can look to for some level of standardization across schools. It matters more now than it used to, which is probably why some schools that said they were dropping APs actually have not done so -- they saw what the testing change would mean.

A lot of kids are not even taking the AP exam so colleges are only seeing the grade they got in the class, grading that is still school specific. In the scenario where kids are not taking the exam there is really no difference between an honors/advanced class and an AP class.

In part, but kids start taking APs in 9th so a pattern of scores is predictive of the senior year scores, especially if the grades support that. Also, colleges know what AP courses are, it's the point of having standards; they have no idea what every random schools' honors class is teaching.

They also start taking honors classes in 9th grade. Colleges get the course curriculum from each high school; the information that is covered in AP is usually also covered in advanced classes offered by school. The schools that are dropping AP are usually known for academic rigor and colleges trust this so why wouldn’t they trust the rigor of the advanced classes? I understand the benefits of a standardized program I just don’t like college boards monopoly on APs and the hoops schools have to go through.

This is the key question: why wouldn’t colleges trust these schools? The fact is, though, that it looks like at the same time that SFS, STA, NCS, and GDS announced they were dropping APs, they also all reduced the number of high-scoring 9th graders they admitted. So it could be that what students in the class of 2023 are seeing is that they’re at the top of the class, and what colleges are seeing is that the class of 2023 looks unusually weak compared to past classes.

What? How could you know that they reduced the number of high scoring 9th graders they admitted? And again, STA and NCS still have APs.

People here confuse their conspiracy theories with reality on an hourly basis.

Perhaps the assumption is that since these schools did away with standardized testing as part of the admissions process they are likely admitting lower scoring admits during these years? Possible, but they have to be strong students to get in anyway.

It’s not a “conspiracy theory.” It’s just that the count of students from elite privates on the presidential scholars eligibility list fell off a cliff this year.

Here are the lists from 2018-2023:

https://edu.wyoming.gov/for-parents-students/usps/

Sidwell:
Range, 2018-2022: 9-19
Average, 2018-2022: 12
Count, 2023: 6

St. Albans/NCS:
Range, 2018-2022: 9-18
Average, 2018-2022: 14
Count, 2023: 4

GDS:
Range, 2018-2022: 5-11
Average, 2018-2022: 8
Count, 2023: 4

Meanwhile …

WIS:
Range, 2018-2022: 0-4
Average, 2018-2022: 2
Count, 2023: 8

School Without Walls:
Range, 2018-2022: 3-7
Average, 2018-2022: 5
Count, 2023: 11
Average SAT score for juniors and seniors
- 2018-19: 1277
- 2021-22: 1317
https://dcps.dc.gov/publication/dcps-data-set-sat

A “conspiracy theory” would be “at the same time they agreed to drop AP courses, the private schools also agreed to caps on high-scoring 9th grade admits.” I don’t have any of the inside information that would be necessary to make such a claim. And I can think of some alternate explanations. (For example, maybe the announcement that they were dropping APs caused applications from high-scoring 8th graders to fall off a cliff.) I’m just saying that, on the available evidence, the distribution of high-scoring students at local schools seems to have altered dramatically for the Class of ‘23 compared to historical patterns.

Wanted to address your conspiracy theory--the current STA senior class is a super smart one. I don't have a kid in it but there are easily a dozen outlier academic rockstars in it. It's the smartest class in a few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC has not taken any AP exams. Will attend an Ivy League school this fall. Top grades, many honors classes. Not an athlete, legacy, or URM.

What got them in then? Lucky draw from the pool of 1600/4.0 ED applicants? Rigor is usually a major factor.

Rigor is in the context of what the school offers. Schools that don’t offer AP still have honors and advanced classes. In this context, to show that you took the most rigorous course at the school you would have to take honors and advanced courses.

And that doesn't help much anymore. Times have changed. Look, when the schools decided to drop APs they could not have predicted what happened when COVID hit,. They could not have predicted that SAT subject matter tests would go away and that most schools would become test optional. Colleges are left with APs as the last thing they can look to for some level of standardization across schools. It matters more now than it used to, which is probably why some schools that said they were dropping APs actually have not done so -- they saw what the testing change would mean.

A lot of kids are not even taking the AP exam so colleges are only seeing the grade they got in the class, grading that is still school specific. In the scenario where kids are not taking the exam there is really no difference between an honors/advanced class and an AP class.

In part, but kids start taking APs in 9th so a pattern of scores is predictive of the senior year scores, especially if the grades support that. Also, colleges know what AP courses are, it's the point of having standards; they have no idea what every random schools' honors class is teaching.

They also start taking honors classes in 9th grade. Colleges get the course curriculum from each high school; the information that is covered in AP is usually also covered in advanced classes offered by school. The schools that are dropping AP are usually known for academic rigor and colleges trust this so why wouldn’t they trust the rigor of the advanced classes? I understand the benefits of a standardized program I just don’t like college boards monopoly on APs and the hoops schools have to go through.

This is the key question: why wouldn’t colleges trust these schools? The fact is, though, that it looks like at the same time that SFS, STA, NCS, and GDS announced they were dropping APs, they also all reduced the number of high-scoring 9th graders they admitted. So it could be that what students in the class of 2023 are seeing is that they’re at the top of the class, and what colleges are seeing is that the class of 2023 looks unusually weak compared to past classes.

What? How could you know that they reduced the number of high scoring 9th graders they admitted? And again, STA and NCS still have APs.

People here confuse their conspiracy theories with reality on an hourly basis.

Perhaps the assumption is that since these schools did away with standardized testing as part of the admissions process they are likely admitting lower scoring admits during these years? Possible, but they have to be strong students to get in anyway.

It’s not a “conspiracy theory.” It’s just that the count of students from elite privates on the presidential scholars eligibility list fell off a cliff this year.

Here are the lists from 2018-2023:

https://edu.wyoming.gov/for-parents-students/usps/

Sidwell:
Range, 2018-2022: 9-19
Average, 2018-2022: 12
Count, 2023: 6

St. Albans/NCS:
Range, 2018-2022: 9-18
Average, 2018-2022: 14
Count, 2023: 4

GDS:
Range, 2018-2022: 5-11
Average, 2018-2022: 8
Count, 2023: 4

Meanwhile …

WIS:
Range, 2018-2022: 0-4
Average, 2018-2022: 2
Count, 2023: 8

School Without Walls:
Range, 2018-2022: 3-7
Average, 2018-2022: 5
Count, 2023: 11
Average SAT score for juniors and seniors
- 2018-19: 1277
- 2021-22: 1317
https://dcps.dc.gov/publication/dcps-data-set-sat

A “conspiracy theory” would be “at the same time they agreed to drop AP courses, the private schools also agreed to caps on high-scoring 9th grade admits.” I don’t have any of the inside information that would be necessary to make such a claim. And I can think of some alternate explanations. (For example, maybe the announcement that they were dropping APs caused applications from high-scoring 8th graders to fall off a cliff.) I’m just saying that, on the available evidence, the distribution of high-scoring students at local schools seems to have altered dramatically for the Class of ‘23 compared to historical patterns.

Wanted to address your conspiracy theory--the current STA senior class is a super smart one. I don't have a kid in it but there are easily a dozen outlier academic rockstars in it. It's the smartest class in a few years.

No dog in this fight, but how can you make a claim like that if the Presidential Scholar tally has dropped so much...Presidential Scholar is basically SAT scores. Doesn't really comport that there are a dozen outlier academic rockstars, yet only 4 are scoring high enough on the SAT (which doesn't require any academic outliers...just smart kids) to qualify for Presidential Scholars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like a big mess and I’m guessing the private schools are regretting their stance on AP courses. Now we are all stuck with it.

I really don’t think the privates that got rid of APs have any regrets.

Sounds like a lot of the parents whose kids attend those privates do have regrets. This has been an interesting thread. I’d be very unhappy with the inconsistent messaging described at GDS if I had a kid there.

GDS parent. We are not happy with it but have been very happy with the school otherwise. So we appreciate the top notch teachers and rigor and just ignore the messaging on AP exams. Our DC says most kids they know also sign up for AP exams despite the discouragement, and the school still administers them.

Same. GDS parent here. We have loved the teaching for the most part (especially HS, MS was more variable). The collage office has been pretty good on most things and super bad on this AP issue. It’s left a bad taste in our mouth TBH. This senior class was not told clearly in sophomore year and September junior year what to do on APs. I’m glad some figured it out. Many kids did not and it limited college choices or chances to bypass 100 level college classes. Disappointing

Not to feed the flames of paranoia...but since you compete most against other kids at your school applying to colleges, won't the GDS kid who has As in the class and takes 5 APs (and scores high) have a leg-up on the kid who has As in the class and takes 0 APs. Won't the college think the kid with 0 APs doesn't seem as motivated...or maybe the class isn't as rigorous as they thought and the kid didn't take the APs because they thought they wouldn't score well.

It is crazy to allow this "informal" AP network to continue. Sure, GDS can tell the colleges the classes are rigorous and that kids are told not to take the AP test...but when the college then receives a bunch of applications with kids taking the AP test, does that not throw the school's explanation out the window?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC has not taken any AP exams. Will attend an Ivy League school this fall. Top grades, many honors classes. Not an athlete, legacy, or URM.

What got them in then? Lucky draw from the pool of 1600/4.0 ED applicants? Rigor is usually a major factor.

Rigor is in the context of what the school offers. Schools that don’t offer AP still have honors and advanced classes. In this context, to show that you took the most rigorous course at the school you would have to take honors and advanced courses.

And that doesn't help much anymore. Times have changed. Look, when the schools decided to drop APs they could not have predicted what happened when COVID hit,. They could not have predicted that SAT subject matter tests would go away and that most schools would become test optional. Colleges are left with APs as the last thing they can look to for some level of standardization across schools. It matters more now than it used to, which is probably why some schools that said they were dropping APs actually have not done so -- they saw what the testing change would mean.

A lot of kids are not even taking the AP exam so colleges are only seeing the grade they got in the class, grading that is still school specific. In the scenario where kids are not taking the exam there is really no difference between an honors/advanced class and an AP class.

In part, but kids start taking APs in 9th so a pattern of scores is predictive of the senior year scores, especially if the grades support that. Also, colleges know what AP courses are, it's the point of having standards; they have no idea what every random schools' honors class is teaching.

They also start taking honors classes in 9th grade. Colleges get the course curriculum from each high school; the information that is covered in AP is usually also covered in advanced classes offered by school. The schools that are dropping AP are usually known for academic rigor and colleges trust this so why wouldn’t they trust the rigor of the advanced classes? I understand the benefits of a standardized program I just don’t like college boards monopoly on APs and the hoops schools have to go through.

This is the key question: why wouldn’t colleges trust these schools? The fact is, though, that it looks like at the same time that SFS, STA, NCS, and GDS announced they were dropping APs, they also all reduced the number of high-scoring 9th graders they admitted. So it could be that what students in the class of 2023 are seeing is that they’re at the top of the class, and what colleges are seeing is that the class of 2023 looks unusually weak compared to past classes.

What? How could you know that they reduced the number of high scoring 9th graders they admitted? And again, STA and NCS still have APs.

People here confuse their conspiracy theories with reality on an hourly basis.

Perhaps the assumption is that since these schools did away with standardized testing as part of the admissions process they are likely admitting lower scoring admits during these years? Possible, but they have to be strong students to get in anyway.

It’s not a “conspiracy theory.” It’s just that the count of students from elite privates on the presidential scholars eligibility list fell off a cliff this year.

Here are the lists from 2018-2023:

https://edu.wyoming.gov/for-parents-students/usps/

Sidwell:
Range, 2018-2022: 9-19
Average, 2018-2022: 12
Count, 2023: 6

St. Albans/NCS:
Range, 2018-2022: 9-18
Average, 2018-2022: 14
Count, 2023: 4

GDS:
Range, 2018-2022: 5-11
Average, 2018-2022: 8
Count, 2023: 4

Meanwhile …

WIS:
Range, 2018-2022: 0-4
Average, 2018-2022: 2
Count, 2023: 8

School Without Walls:
Range, 2018-2022: 3-7
Average, 2018-2022: 5
Count, 2023: 11
Average SAT score for juniors and seniors
- 2018-19: 1277
- 2021-22: 1317
https://dcps.dc.gov/publication/dcps-data-set-sat

A “conspiracy theory” would be “at the same time they agreed to drop AP courses, the private schools also agreed to caps on high-scoring 9th grade admits.” I don’t have any of the inside information that would be necessary to make such a claim. And I can think of some alternate explanations. (For example, maybe the announcement that they were dropping APs caused applications from high-scoring 8th graders to fall off a cliff.) I’m just saying that, on the available evidence, the distribution of high-scoring students at local schools seems to have altered dramatically for the Class of ‘23 compared to historical patterns.

Wanted to address your conspiracy theory--the current STA senior class is a super smart one. I don't have a kid in it but there are easily a dozen outlier academic rockstars in it. It's the smartest class in a few years.

How do you know this? STA does not rank or give out GPA or SAT/ACT scores. Besides unless they are getting into their first choice school (which I have heard many in the grade have not) then it does not really matter what their stats are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC has not taken any AP exams. Will attend an Ivy League school this fall. Top grades, many honors classes. Not an athlete, legacy, or URM.

What got them in then? Lucky draw from the pool of 1600/4.0 ED applicants? Rigor is usually a major factor.

Rigor is in the context of what the school offers. Schools that don’t offer AP still have honors and advanced classes. In this context, to show that you took the most rigorous course at the school you would have to take honors and advanced courses.

And that doesn't help much anymore. Times have changed. Look, when the schools decided to drop APs they could not have predicted what happened when COVID hit,. They could not have predicted that SAT subject matter tests would go away and that most schools would become test optional. Colleges are left with APs as the last thing they can look to for some level of standardization across schools. It matters more now than it used to, which is probably why some schools that said they were dropping APs actually have not done so -- they saw what the testing change would mean.

A lot of kids are not even taking the AP exam so colleges are only seeing the grade they got in the class, grading that is still school specific. In the scenario where kids are not taking the exam there is really no difference between an honors/advanced class and an AP class.

In part, but kids start taking APs in 9th so a pattern of scores is predictive of the senior year scores, especially if the grades support that. Also, colleges know what AP courses are, it's the point of having standards; they have no idea what every random schools' honors class is teaching.

They also start taking honors classes in 9th grade. Colleges get the course curriculum from each high school; the information that is covered in AP is usually also covered in advanced classes offered by school. The schools that are dropping AP are usually known for academic rigor and colleges trust this so why wouldn’t they trust the rigor of the advanced classes? I understand the benefits of a standardized program I just don’t like college boards monopoly on APs and the hoops schools have to go through.

This is the key question: why wouldn’t colleges trust these schools? The fact is, though, that it looks like at the same time that SFS, STA, NCS, and GDS announced they were dropping APs, they also all reduced the number of high-scoring 9th graders they admitted. So it could be that what students in the class of 2023 are seeing is that they’re at the top of the class, and what colleges are seeing is that the class of 2023 looks unusually weak compared to past classes.

What? How could you know that they reduced the number of high scoring 9th graders they admitted? And again, STA and NCS still have APs.

People here confuse their conspiracy theories with reality on an hourly basis.

Perhaps the assumption is that since these schools did away with standardized testing as part of the admissions process they are likely admitting lower scoring admits during these years? Possible, but they have to be strong students to get in anyway.

It’s not a “conspiracy theory.” It’s just that the count of students from elite privates on the presidential scholars eligibility list fell off a cliff this year.

Here are the lists from 2018-2023:

https://edu.wyoming.gov/for-parents-students/usps/

Sidwell:
Range, 2018-2022: 9-19
Average, 2018-2022: 12
Count, 2023: 6

St. Albans/NCS:
Range, 2018-2022: 9-18
Average, 2018-2022: 14
Count, 2023: 4

GDS:
Range, 2018-2022: 5-11
Average, 2018-2022: 8
Count, 2023: 4

Meanwhile …

WIS:
Range, 2018-2022: 0-4
Average, 2018-2022: 2
Count, 2023: 8

School Without Walls:
Range, 2018-2022: 3-7
Average, 2018-2022: 5
Count, 2023: 11
Average SAT score for juniors and seniors
- 2018-19: 1277
- 2021-22: 1317
https://dcps.dc.gov/publication/dcps-data-set-sat

A “conspiracy theory” would be “at the same time they agreed to drop AP courses, the private schools also agreed to caps on high-scoring 9th grade admits.” I don’t have any of the inside information that would be necessary to make such a claim. And I can think of some alternate explanations. (For example, maybe the announcement that they were dropping APs caused applications from high-scoring 8th graders to fall off a cliff.) I’m just saying that, on the available evidence, the distribution of high-scoring students at local schools seems to have altered dramatically for the Class of ‘23 compared to historical patterns.

Wanted to address your conspiracy theory--the current STA senior class is a super smart one. I don't have a kid in it but there are easily a dozen outlier academic rockstars in it. It's the smartest class in a few years.

No dog in this fight, but how can you make a claim like that if the Presidential Scholar tally has dropped so much...Presidential Scholar is basically SAT scores. Doesn't really comport that there are a dozen outlier academic rockstars, yet only 4 are scoring high enough on the SAT (which doesn't require any academic outliers...just smart kids) to qualify for Presidential Scholars.

DP. Presidential scholars means nothing anymore because it only takes into consideration PSAT or early SAT scores. I know kids that had 1580 and 1600 on SAT but did not make presidential scholar because they did not take the final SAT until end of junior year past the deadline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC has not taken any AP exams. Will attend an Ivy League school this fall. Top grades, many honors classes. Not an athlete, legacy, or URM.

What got them in then? Lucky draw from the pool of 1600/4.0 ED applicants? Rigor is usually a major factor.

Rigor is in the context of what the school offers. Schools that don’t offer AP still have honors and advanced classes. In this context, to show that you took the most rigorous course at the school you would have to take honors and advanced courses.

And that doesn't help much anymore. Times have changed. Look, when the schools decided to drop APs they could not have predicted what happened when COVID hit,. They could not have predicted that SAT subject matter tests would go away and that most schools would become test optional. Colleges are left with APs as the last thing they can look to for some level of standardization across schools. It matters more now than it used to, which is probably why some schools that said they were dropping APs actually have not done so -- they saw what the testing change would mean.

A lot of kids are not even taking the AP exam so colleges are only seeing the grade they got in the class, grading that is still school specific. In the scenario where kids are not taking the exam there is really no difference between an honors/advanced class and an AP class.

In part, but kids start taking APs in 9th so a pattern of scores is predictive of the senior year scores, especially if the grades support that. Also, colleges know what AP courses are, it's the point of having standards; they have no idea what every random schools' honors class is teaching.

They also start taking honors classes in 9th grade. Colleges get the course curriculum from each high school; the information that is covered in AP is usually also covered in advanced classes offered by school. The schools that are dropping AP are usually known for academic rigor and colleges trust this so why wouldn’t they trust the rigor of the advanced classes? I understand the benefits of a standardized program I just don’t like college boards monopoly on APs and the hoops schools have to go through.

This is the key question: why wouldn’t colleges trust these schools? The fact is, though, that it looks like at the same time that SFS, STA, NCS, and GDS announced they were dropping APs, they also all reduced the number of high-scoring 9th graders they admitted. So it could be that what students in the class of 2023 are seeing is that they’re at the top of the class, and what colleges are seeing is that the class of 2023 looks unusually weak compared to past classes.

What? How could you know that they reduced the number of high scoring 9th graders they admitted? And again, STA and NCS still have APs.

People here confuse their conspiracy theories with reality on an hourly basis.

Perhaps the assumption is that since these schools did away with standardized testing as part of the admissions process they are likely admitting lower scoring admits during these years? Possible, but they have to be strong students to get in anyway.

It’s not a “conspiracy theory.” It’s just that the count of students from elite privates on the presidential scholars eligibility list fell off a cliff this year.

Here are the lists from 2018-2023:

https://edu.wyoming.gov/for-parents-students/usps/

Sidwell:
Range, 2018-2022: 9-19
Average, 2018-2022: 12
Count, 2023: 6

St. Albans/NCS:
Range, 2018-2022: 9-18
Average, 2018-2022: 14
Count, 2023: 4

GDS:
Range, 2018-2022: 5-11
Average, 2018-2022: 8
Count, 2023: 4

Meanwhile …

WIS:
Range, 2018-2022: 0-4
Average, 2018-2022: 2
Count, 2023: 8

School Without Walls:
Range, 2018-2022: 3-7
Average, 2018-2022: 5
Count, 2023: 11
Average SAT score for juniors and seniors
- 2018-19: 1277
- 2021-22: 1317
https://dcps.dc.gov/publication/dcps-data-set-sat

A “conspiracy theory” would be “at the same time they agreed to drop AP courses, the private schools also agreed to caps on high-scoring 9th grade admits.” I don’t have any of the inside information that would be necessary to make such a claim. And I can think of some alternate explanations. (For example, maybe the announcement that they were dropping APs caused applications from high-scoring 8th graders to fall off a cliff.) I’m just saying that, on the available evidence, the distribution of high-scoring students at local schools seems to have altered dramatically for the Class of ‘23 compared to historical patterns.

Wanted to address your conspiracy theory--the current STA senior class is a super smart one. I don't have a kid in it but there are easily a dozen outlier academic rockstars in it. It's the smartest class in a few years.

No dog in this fight, but how can you make a claim like that if the Presidential Scholar tally has dropped so much...Presidential Scholar is basically SAT scores. Doesn't really comport that there are a dozen outlier academic rockstars, yet only 4 are scoring high enough on the SAT (which doesn't require any academic outliers...just smart kids) to qualify for Presidential Scholars.

DP. Presidential scholars means nothing anymore because it only takes into consideration PSAT or early SAT scores. I know kids that had 1580 and 1600 on SAT but did not make presidential scholar because they did not take the final SAT until end of junior year past the deadline.

If you are going to make a statement, make sure it is not easily contradicted through a quick google search on 2023 Presidential Scholar qualifying (which does not take into account PSAT scores):

score exceptionally well on either the SAT of the College Board or the ACT of the American College Testing Program, based on tests taken during the year window that begins in August, 2019 and runs through October, 2022, (for the recognition cycle concluding in June, 2023), nominated by their Chief State School Officer (CSSO) or nominated by one of our partner recognition organizations based on outstanding scholarship.