Anonymous wrote:DC has not taken any AP exams. Will attend an Ivy League school this fall. Top grades, many honors classes. Not an athlete, legacy, or URM.
What got them in then? Lucky draw from the pool of 1600/4.0 ED applicants? Rigor is usually a major factor.
Rigor is in the context of what the school offers. Schools that don’t offer AP still have honors and advanced classes. In this context, to show that you took the most rigorous course at the school you would have to take honors and advanced courses.
And that doesn't help much anymore. Times have changed. Look, when the schools decided to drop APs they could not have predicted what happened when COVID hit,. They could not have predicted that SAT subject matter tests would go away and that most schools would become test optional. Colleges are left with APs as the last thing they can look to for some level of standardization across schools. It matters more now than it used to, which is probably why some schools that said they were dropping APs actually have not done so -- they saw what the testing change would mean.
A lot of kids are not even taking the AP exam so colleges are only seeing the grade they got in the class, grading that is still school specific. In the scenario where kids are not taking the exam there is really no difference between an honors/advanced class and an AP class.
In part, but kids start taking APs in 9th so a pattern of scores is predictive of the senior year scores, especially if the grades support that. Also, colleges know what AP courses are, it's the point of having standards; they have no idea what every random schools' honors class is teaching.
They also start taking honors classes in 9th grade. Colleges get the course curriculum from each high school; the information that is covered in AP is usually also covered in advanced classes offered by school. The schools that are dropping AP are usually known for academic rigor and colleges trust this so why wouldn’t they trust the rigor of the advanced classes? I understand the benefits of a standardized program I just don’t like college boards monopoly on APs and the hoops schools have to go through.
This is the key question: why wouldn’t colleges trust these schools? The fact is, though, that it looks like at the same time that SFS, STA, NCS, and GDS announced they were dropping APs, they also all reduced the number of high-scoring 9th graders they admitted. So it could be that what students in the class of 2023 are seeing is that they’re at the top of the class, and what colleges are seeing is that the class of 2023 looks unusually weak compared to past classes.
What? How could you know that they reduced the number of high scoring 9th graders they admitted? And again, STA and NCS still have APs.
People here confuse their conspiracy theories with reality on an hourly basis.
Perhaps the assumption is that since these schools did away with standardized testing as part of the admissions process they are likely admitting lower scoring admits during these years? Possible, but they have to be strong students to get in anyway.
It’s not a “conspiracy theory.” It’s just that the count of students from elite privates on the presidential scholars eligibility list fell off a cliff this year.
School Without Walls:
Range, 2018-2022: 3-7
Average, 2018-2022: 5
Count, 2023: 11
Average SAT score for juniors and seniors
- 2018-19: 1277
- 2021-22: 1317
https://dcps.dc.gov/publication/dcps-data-set-sat
A “conspiracy theory” would be “at the same time they agreed to drop AP courses, the private schools also agreed to caps on high-scoring 9th grade admits.” I don’t have any of the inside information that would be necessary to make such a claim. And I can think of some alternate explanations. (For example, maybe the announcement that they were dropping APs caused applications from high-scoring 8th graders to fall off a cliff.) I’m just saying that, on the available evidence, the distribution of high-scoring students at local schools seems to have altered dramatically for the Class of ‘23 compared to historical patterns.
Wanted to address your conspiracy theory--the current STA senior class is a super smart one. I don't have a kid in it but there are easily a dozen outlier academic rockstars in it. It's the smartest class in a few years.
No dog in this fight, but how can you make a claim like that if the Presidential Scholar tally has dropped so much...Presidential Scholar is basically SAT scores. Doesn't really comport that there are a dozen outlier academic rockstars, yet only 4 are scoring high enough on the SAT (which doesn't require any academic outliers...just smart kids) to qualify for Presidential Scholars.
DP. Presidential scholars means nothing anymore because it only takes into consideration PSAT or early SAT scores. I know kids that had 1580 and 1600 on SAT but did not make presidential scholar because they did not take the final SAT until end of junior year past the deadline.
If you are going to make a statement, make sure it is not easily contradicted through a quick google search on 2023 Presidential Scholar qualifying (which does not take into account PSAT scores):
score exceptionally well on either the SAT of the College Board or the ACT of the American College Testing Program, based on tests taken during the year window that begins in August, 2019 and runs through October, 2022, (for the recognition cycle concluding in June, 2023), nominated by their Chief State School Officer (CSSO) or nominated by one of our partner recognition organizations based on outstanding scholarship.
I am 100 percent positive there are several students that have a 1580 or above that are not presidential scholars. 100 percent positive. That is at STA, NCS, and Sidwell. 100 percent positive.
Anonymous wrote:DC has not taken any AP exams. Will attend an Ivy League school this fall. Top grades, many honors classes. Not an athlete, legacy, or URM.
What got them in then? Lucky draw from the pool of 1600/4.0 ED applicants? Rigor is usually a major factor.
Rigor is in the context of what the school offers. Schools that don’t offer AP still have honors and advanced classes. In this context, to show that you took the most rigorous course at the school you would have to take honors and advanced courses.
And that doesn't help much anymore. Times have changed. Look, when the schools decided to drop APs they could not have predicted what happened when COVID hit,. They could not have predicted that SAT subject matter tests would go away and that most schools would become test optional. Colleges are left with APs as the last thing they can look to for some level of standardization across schools. It matters more now than it used to, which is probably why some schools that said they were dropping APs actually have not done so -- they saw what the testing change would mean.
A lot of kids are not even taking the AP exam so colleges are only seeing the grade they got in the class, grading that is still school specific. In the scenario where kids are not taking the exam there is really no difference between an honors/advanced class and an AP class.
In part, but kids start taking APs in 9th so a pattern of scores is predictive of the senior year scores, especially if the grades support that. Also, colleges know what AP courses are, it's the point of having standards; they have no idea what every random schools' honors class is teaching.
They also start taking honors classes in 9th grade. Colleges get the course curriculum from each high school; the information that is covered in AP is usually also covered in advanced classes offered by school. The schools that are dropping AP are usually known for academic rigor and colleges trust this so why wouldn’t they trust the rigor of the advanced classes? I understand the benefits of a standardized program I just don’t like college boards monopoly on APs and the hoops schools have to go through.
This is the key question: why wouldn’t colleges trust these schools? The fact is, though, that it looks like at the same time that SFS, STA, NCS, and GDS announced they were dropping APs, they also all reduced the number of high-scoring 9th graders they admitted. So it could be that what students in the class of 2023 are seeing is that they’re at the top of the class, and what colleges are seeing is that the class of 2023 looks unusually weak compared to past classes.
What? How could you know that they reduced the number of high scoring 9th graders they admitted? And again, STA and NCS still have APs.
People here confuse their conspiracy theories with reality on an hourly basis.
Perhaps the assumption is that since these schools did away with standardized testing as part of the admissions process they are likely admitting lower scoring admits during these years? Possible, but they have to be strong students to get in anyway.
It’s not a “conspiracy theory.” It’s just that the count of students from elite privates on the presidential scholars eligibility list fell off a cliff this year.
School Without Walls:
Range, 2018-2022: 3-7
Average, 2018-2022: 5
Count, 2023: 11
Average SAT score for juniors and seniors
- 2018-19: 1277
- 2021-22: 1317
https://dcps.dc.gov/publication/dcps-data-set-sat
A “conspiracy theory” would be “at the same time they agreed to drop AP courses, the private schools also agreed to caps on high-scoring 9th grade admits.” I don’t have any of the inside information that would be necessary to make such a claim. And I can think of some alternate explanations. (For example, maybe the announcement that they were dropping APs caused applications from high-scoring 8th graders to fall off a cliff.) I’m just saying that, on the available evidence, the distribution of high-scoring students at local schools seems to have altered dramatically for the Class of ‘23 compared to historical patterns.
Wanted to address your conspiracy theory--the current STA senior class is a super smart one. I don't have a kid in it but there are easily a dozen outlier academic rockstars in it. It's the smartest class in a few years.
No dog in this fight, but how can you make a claim like that if the Presidential Scholar tally has dropped so much...Presidential Scholar is basically SAT scores. Doesn't really comport that there are a dozen outlier academic rockstars, yet only 4 are scoring high enough on the SAT (which doesn't require any academic outliers...just smart kids) to qualify for Presidential Scholars.
DP. Presidential scholars means nothing anymore because it only takes into consideration PSAT or early SAT scores. I know kids that had 1580 and 1600 on SAT but did not make presidential scholar because they did not take the final SAT until end of junior year past the deadline.
If you are going to make a statement, make sure it is not easily contradicted through a quick google search on 2023 Presidential Scholar qualifying (which does not take into account PSAT scores):
score exceptionally well on either the SAT of the College Board or the ACT of the American College Testing Program, based on tests taken during the year window that begins in August, 2019 and runs through October, 2022, (for the recognition cycle concluding in June, 2023), nominated by their Chief State School Officer (CSSO) or nominated by one of our partner recognition organizations based on outstanding scholarship.
I am 100 percent positive there are several students that have a 1580 or above that are not presidential scholars. 100 percent positive. That is at STA, NCS, and Sidwell. 100 percent positive.
They don't superscore for Presidential Scholars...maybe that is part of the problem? You have to score it in one sitting...I think maybe 1550 is the low-end of the range this year.
I mean, getting nominated for the award is an automatic thing (actually winning it requires completing essays and other stuff). Sorry to discredit you, but anyone getting a 1580+ in one sitting would absolutely have qualified.
Anonymous wrote:DC has not taken any AP exams. Will attend an Ivy League school this fall. Top grades, many honors classes. Not an athlete, legacy, or URM.
What got them in then? Lucky draw from the pool of 1600/4.0 ED applicants? Rigor is usually a major factor.
Rigor is in the context of what the school offers. Schools that don’t offer AP still have honors and advanced classes. In this context, to show that you took the most rigorous course at the school you would have to take honors and advanced courses.
And that doesn't help much anymore. Times have changed. Look, when the schools decided to drop APs they could not have predicted what happened when COVID hit,. They could not have predicted that SAT subject matter tests would go away and that most schools would become test optional. Colleges are left with APs as the last thing they can look to for some level of standardization across schools. It matters more now than it used to, which is probably why some schools that said they were dropping APs actually have not done so -- they saw what the testing change would mean.
A lot of kids are not even taking the AP exam so colleges are only seeing the grade they got in the class, grading that is still school specific. In the scenario where kids are not taking the exam there is really no difference between an honors/advanced class and an AP class.
In part, but kids start taking APs in 9th so a pattern of scores is predictive of the senior year scores, especially if the grades support that. Also, colleges know what AP courses are, it's the point of having standards; they have no idea what every random schools' honors class is teaching.
They also start taking honors classes in 9th grade. Colleges get the course curriculum from each high school; the information that is covered in AP is usually also covered in advanced classes offered by school. The schools that are dropping AP are usually known for academic rigor and colleges trust this so why wouldn’t they trust the rigor of the advanced classes? I understand the benefits of a standardized program I just don’t like college boards monopoly on APs and the hoops schools have to go through.
This is the key question: why wouldn’t colleges trust these schools? The fact is, though, that it looks like at the same time that SFS, STA, NCS, and GDS announced they were dropping APs, they also all reduced the number of high-scoring 9th graders they admitted. So it could be that what students in the class of 2023 are seeing is that they’re at the top of the class, and what colleges are seeing is that the class of 2023 looks unusually weak compared to past classes.
What? How could you know that they reduced the number of high scoring 9th graders they admitted? And again, STA and NCS still have APs.
People here confuse their conspiracy theories with reality on an hourly basis.
Perhaps the assumption is that since these schools did away with standardized testing as part of the admissions process they are likely admitting lower scoring admits during these years? Possible, but they have to be strong students to get in anyway.
It’s not a “conspiracy theory.” It’s just that the count of students from elite privates on the presidential scholars eligibility list fell off a cliff this year.
School Without Walls:
Range, 2018-2022: 3-7
Average, 2018-2022: 5
Count, 2023: 11
Average SAT score for juniors and seniors
- 2018-19: 1277
- 2021-22: 1317
https://dcps.dc.gov/publication/dcps-data-set-sat
A “conspiracy theory” would be “at the same time they agreed to drop AP courses, the private schools also agreed to caps on high-scoring 9th grade admits.” I don’t have any of the inside information that would be necessary to make such a claim. And I can think of some alternate explanations. (For example, maybe the announcement that they were dropping APs caused applications from high-scoring 8th graders to fall off a cliff.) I’m just saying that, on the available evidence, the distribution of high-scoring students at local schools seems to have altered dramatically for the Class of ‘23 compared to historical patterns.
Wanted to address your conspiracy theory--the current STA senior class is a super smart one. I don't have a kid in it but there are easily a dozen outlier academic rockstars in it. It's the smartest class in a few years.
No dog in this fight, but how can you make a claim like that if the Presidential Scholar tally has dropped so much...Presidential Scholar is basically SAT scores. Doesn't really comport that there are a dozen outlier academic rockstars, yet only 4 are scoring high enough on the SAT (which doesn't require any academic outliers...just smart kids) to qualify for Presidential Scholars.
DP. Presidential scholars means nothing anymore because it only takes into consideration PSAT or early SAT scores. I know kids that had 1580 and 1600 on SAT but did not make presidential scholar because they did not take the final SAT until end of junior year past the deadline.
If you are going to make a statement, make sure it is not easily contradicted through a quick google search on 2023 Presidential Scholar qualifying (which does not take into account PSAT scores):
score exceptionally well on either the SAT of the College Board or the ACT of the American College Testing Program, based on tests taken during the year window that begins in August, 2019 and runs through October, 2022, (for the recognition cycle concluding in June, 2023), nominated by their Chief State School Officer (CSSO) or nominated by one of our partner recognition organizations based on outstanding scholarship.
I am 100 percent positive there are several students that have a 1580 or above that are not presidential scholars. 100 percent positive. That is at STA, NCS, and Sidwell. 100 percent positive.
They don't superscore for Presidential Scholars...maybe that is part of the problem? You have to score it in one sitting...I think maybe 1550 is the low-end of the range this year.
I mean, getting nominated for the award is an automatic thing (actually winning it requires completing essays and other stuff). Sorry to discredit you, but anyone getting a 1580+ in one sitting would absolutely have qualified.
Sorry, not one sitting...just meant they only look at the combined scores of any individual test. They do not take an 800 in Math from an October test and then marry it with an 800 in English from the March test (i.e., they don't Super Score).
Anonymous wrote:DC has not taken any AP exams. Will attend an Ivy League school this fall. Top grades, many honors classes. Not an athlete, legacy, or URM.
What got them in then? Lucky draw from the pool of 1600/4.0 ED applicants? Rigor is usually a major factor.
Rigor is in the context of what the school offers. Schools that don’t offer AP still have honors and advanced classes. In this context, to show that you took the most rigorous course at the school you would have to take honors and advanced courses.
And that doesn't help much anymore. Times have changed. Look, when the schools decided to drop APs they could not have predicted what happened when COVID hit,. They could not have predicted that SAT subject matter tests would go away and that most schools would become test optional. Colleges are left with APs as the last thing they can look to for some level of standardization across schools. It matters more now than it used to, which is probably why some schools that said they were dropping APs actually have not done so -- they saw what the testing change would mean.
A lot of kids are not even taking the AP exam so colleges are only seeing the grade they got in the class, grading that is still school specific. In the scenario where kids are not taking the exam there is really no difference between an honors/advanced class and an AP class.
In part, but kids start taking APs in 9th so a pattern of scores is predictive of the senior year scores, especially if the grades support that. Also, colleges know what AP courses are, it's the point of having standards; they have no idea what every random schools' honors class is teaching.
They also start taking honors classes in 9th grade. Colleges get the course curriculum from each high school; the information that is covered in AP is usually also covered in advanced classes offered by school. The schools that are dropping AP are usually known for academic rigor and colleges trust this so why wouldn’t they trust the rigor of the advanced classes? I understand the benefits of a standardized program I just don’t like college boards monopoly on APs and the hoops schools have to go through.
This is the key question: why wouldn’t colleges trust these schools? The fact is, though, that it looks like at the same time that SFS, STA, NCS, and GDS announced they were dropping APs, they also all reduced the number of high-scoring 9th graders they admitted. So it could be that what students in the class of 2023 are seeing is that they’re at the top of the class, and what colleges are seeing is that the class of 2023 looks unusually weak compared to past classes.
What? How could you know that they reduced the number of high scoring 9th graders they admitted? And again, STA and NCS still have APs.
People here confuse their conspiracy theories with reality on an hourly basis.
Perhaps the assumption is that since these schools did away with standardized testing as part of the admissions process they are likely admitting lower scoring admits during these years? Possible, but they have to be strong students to get in anyway.
Something may have altered the composition of the class of 2023 at certain schools, but I don't think it had anything to do with testing policies. My kid is in the class of 2023, and I am almost 100% sure these schools were not test-optional. Our K-8 administered the ISEE in 2018, and most kids also took the SSAT.
Anonymous wrote:It seems like a big mess and I’m guessing the private schools are regretting their stance on AP courses. Now we are all stuck with it.
I really don’t think the privates that got rid of APs have any regrets.
Sounds like a lot of the parents whose kids attend those privates do have regrets. This has been an interesting thread. I’d be very unhappy with the inconsistent messaging described at GDS if I had a kid there.
GDS parent. We are not happy with it but have been very happy with the school otherwise. So we appreciate the top notch teachers and rigor and just ignore the messaging on AP exams. Our DC says most kids they know also sign up for AP exams despite the discouragement, and the school still administers them.
Same. GDS parent here. We have loved the teaching for the most part (especially HS, MS was more variable). The collage office has been pretty good on most things and super bad on this AP issue. It’s left a bad taste in our mouth TBH. This senior class was not told clearly in sophomore year and September junior year what to do on APs. I’m glad some figured it out. Many kids did not and it limited college choices or chances to bypass 100 level college classes. Disappointing
Not to feed the flames of paranoia...but since you compete most against other kids at your school applying to colleges, won't the GDS kid who has As in the class and takes 5 APs (and scores high) have a leg-up on the kid who has As in the class and takes 0 APs. Won't the college think the kid with 0 APs doesn't seem as motivated...or maybe the class isn't as rigorous as they thought and the kid didn't take the APs because they thought they wouldn't score well.
It is crazy to allow this "informal" AP network to continue. Sure, GDS can tell the colleges the classes are rigorous and that kids are told not to take the AP test...but when the college then receives a bunch of applications with kids taking the AP test, does that not throw the school's explanation out the window?
This was not our experience. In the end it all worked out well with college acceptances. But as a family who followed the school's guidance and did not encourage our kid to sign up for AP tests (despite taking the corresponding classes), learning that so many other students were taking them AND that the school profile reports those numbers caused a lot of stress. I agree that the school needs to rethink their approach.
Anonymous wrote:It seems like a big mess and I’m guessing the private schools are regretting their stance on AP courses. Now we are all stuck with it.
I really don’t think the privates that got rid of APs have any regrets.
Sounds like a lot of the parents whose kids attend those privates do have regrets. This has been an interesting thread. I’d be very unhappy with the inconsistent messaging described at GDS if I had a kid there.
GDS parent. We are not happy with it but have been very happy with the school otherwise. So we appreciate the top notch teachers and rigor and just ignore the messaging on AP exams. Our DC says most kids they know also sign up for AP exams despite the discouragement, and the school still administers them.
Same. GDS parent here. We have loved the teaching for the most part (especially HS, MS was more variable). The collage office has been pretty good on most things and super bad on this AP issue. It’s left a bad taste in our mouth TBH. This senior class was not told clearly in sophomore year and September junior year what to do on APs. I’m glad some figured it out. Many kids did not and it limited college choices or chances to bypass 100 level college classes. Disappointing
Not to feed the flames of paranoia...but since you compete most against other kids at your school applying to colleges, won't the GDS kid who has As in the class and takes 5 APs (and scores high) have a leg-up on the kid who has As in the class and takes 0 APs. Won't the college think the kid with 0 APs doesn't seem as motivated...or maybe the class isn't as rigorous as they thought and the kid didn't take the APs because they thought they wouldn't score well.
It is crazy to allow this "informal" AP network to continue. Sure, GDS can tell the colleges the classes are rigorous and that kids are told not to take the AP test...but when the college then receives a bunch of applications with kids taking the AP test, does that not throw the school's explanation out the window?
This was not our experience. In the end it all worked out well with college acceptances. But as a family who followed the school's guidance and did not encourage our kid to sign up for AP tests (despite taking the corresponding classes), learning that so many other students were taking them AND that the school profile reports those numbers caused a lot of stress. I agree that the school needs to rethink their approach.
I’m glad to hear it worked out well for your kid. We are applying to some upper schools that have gotten rid of AP as well as some schools that still have APs and I’m really so confused about the whole topic. I’m not unsure whether this should be a consideration when it’s time to select a school.
Anonymous wrote:DC has not taken any AP exams. Will attend an Ivy League school this fall. Top grades, many honors classes. Not an athlete, legacy, or URM.
What got them in then? Lucky draw from the pool of 1600/4.0 ED applicants? Rigor is usually a major factor.
Rigor is in the context of what the school offers. Schools that don’t offer AP still have honors and advanced classes. In this context, to show that you took the most rigorous course at the school you would have to take honors and advanced courses.
And that doesn't help much anymore. Times have changed. Look, when the schools decided to drop APs they could not have predicted what happened when COVID hit,. They could not have predicted that SAT subject matter tests would go away and that most schools would become test optional. Colleges are left with APs as the last thing they can look to for some level of standardization across schools. It matters more now than it used to, which is probably why some schools that said they were dropping APs actually have not done so -- they saw what the testing change would mean.
A lot of kids are not even taking the AP exam so colleges are only seeing the grade they got in the class, grading that is still school specific. In the scenario where kids are not taking the exam there is really no difference between an honors/advanced class and an AP class.
In part, but kids start taking APs in 9th so a pattern of scores is predictive of the senior year scores, especially if the grades support that. Also, colleges know what AP courses are, it's the point of having standards; they have no idea what every random schools' honors class is teaching.
They also start taking honors classes in 9th grade. Colleges get the course curriculum from each high school; the information that is covered in AP is usually also covered in advanced classes offered by school. The schools that are dropping AP are usually known for academic rigor and colleges trust this so why wouldn’t they trust the rigor of the advanced classes? I understand the benefits of a standardized program I just don’t like college boards monopoly on APs and the hoops schools have to go through.
This is the key question: why wouldn’t colleges trust these schools? The fact is, though, that it looks like at the same time that SFS, STA, NCS, and GDS announced they were dropping APs, they also all reduced the number of high-scoring 9th graders they admitted. So it could be that what students in the class of 2023 are seeing is that they’re at the top of the class, and what colleges are seeing is that the class of 2023 looks unusually weak compared to past classes.
What? How could you know that they reduced the number of high scoring 9th graders they admitted? And again, STA and NCS still have APs.
People here confuse their conspiracy theories with reality on an hourly basis.
Perhaps the assumption is that since these schools did away with standardized testing as part of the admissions process they are likely admitting lower scoring admits during these years? Possible, but they have to be strong students to get in anyway.
It’s not a “conspiracy theory.” It’s just that the count of students from elite privates on the presidential scholars eligibility list fell off a cliff this year.
School Without Walls:
Range, 2018-2022: 3-7
Average, 2018-2022: 5
Count, 2023: 11
Average SAT score for juniors and seniors
- 2018-19: 1277
- 2021-22: 1317
https://dcps.dc.gov/publication/dcps-data-set-sat
A “conspiracy theory” would be “at the same time they agreed to drop AP courses, the private schools also agreed to caps on high-scoring 9th grade admits.” I don’t have any of the inside information that would be necessary to make such a claim. And I can think of some alternate explanations. (For example, maybe the announcement that they were dropping APs caused applications from high-scoring 8th graders to fall off a cliff.) I’m just saying that, on the available evidence, the distribution of high-scoring students at local schools seems to have altered dramatically for the Class of ‘23 compared to historical patterns.
Wanted to address your conspiracy theory--the current STA senior class is a super smart one. I don't have a kid in it but there are easily a dozen outlier academic rockstars in it. It's the smartest class in a few years.
No dog in this fight, but how can you make a claim like that if the Presidential Scholar tally has dropped so much...Presidential Scholar is basically SAT scores. Doesn't really comport that there are a dozen outlier academic rockstars, yet only 4 are scoring high enough on the SAT (which doesn't require any academic outliers...just smart kids) to qualify for Presidential Scholars.
DP. Presidential scholars means nothing anymore because it only takes into consideration PSAT or early SAT scores. I know kids that had 1580 and 1600 on SAT but did not make presidential scholar because they did not take the final SAT until end of junior year past the deadline.
If you are going to make a statement, make sure it is not easily contradicted through a quick google search on 2023 Presidential Scholar qualifying (which does not take into account PSAT scores):
score exceptionally well on either the SAT of the College Board or the ACT of the American College Testing Program, based on tests taken during the year window that begins in August, 2019 and runs through October, 2022, (for the recognition cycle concluding in June, 2023), nominated by their Chief State School Officer (CSSO) or nominated by one of our partner recognition organizations based on outstanding scholarship.
I am 100 percent positive there are several students that have a 1580 or above that are not presidential scholars. 100 percent positive. That is at STA, NCS, and Sidwell. 100 percent positive.
They don't superscore for Presidential Scholars...maybe that is part of the problem? You have to score it in one sitting...I think maybe 1550 is the low-end of the range this year.
I mean, getting nominated for the award is an automatic thing (actually winning it requires completing essays and other stuff). Sorry to discredit you, but anyone getting a 1580+ in one sitting would absolutely have qualified.
No one cares about this. This has nothing to do with OPs question about AP classes. Please stop hijacking the thread.
Anonymous wrote:DC has not taken any AP exams. Will attend an Ivy League school this fall. Top grades, many honors classes. Not an athlete, legacy, or URM.
What got them in then? Lucky draw from the pool of 1600/4.0 ED applicants? Rigor is usually a major factor.
Rigor is in the context of what the school offers. Schools that don’t offer AP still have honors and advanced classes. In this context, to show that you took the most rigorous course at the school you would have to take honors and advanced courses.
And that doesn't help much anymore. Times have changed. Look, when the schools decided to drop APs they could not have predicted what happened when COVID hit,. They could not have predicted that SAT subject matter tests would go away and that most schools would become test optional. Colleges are left with APs as the last thing they can look to for some level of standardization across schools. It matters more now than it used to, which is probably why some schools that said they were dropping APs actually have not done so -- they saw what the testing change would mean.
A lot of kids are not even taking the AP exam so colleges are only seeing the grade they got in the class, grading that is still school specific. In the scenario where kids are not taking the exam there is really no difference between an honors/advanced class and an AP class.
In part, but kids start taking APs in 9th so a pattern of scores is predictive of the senior year scores, especially if the grades support that. Also, colleges know what AP courses are, it's the point of having standards; they have no idea what every random schools' honors class is teaching.
They also start taking honors classes in 9th grade. Colleges get the course curriculum from each high school; the information that is covered in AP is usually also covered in advanced classes offered by school. The schools that are dropping AP are usually known for academic rigor and colleges trust this so why wouldn’t they trust the rigor of the advanced classes? I understand the benefits of a standardized program I just don’t like college boards monopoly on APs and the hoops schools have to go through.
This is the key question: why wouldn’t colleges trust these schools? The fact is, though, that it looks like at the same time that SFS, STA, NCS, and GDS announced they were dropping APs, they also all reduced the number of high-scoring 9th graders they admitted. So it could be that what students in the class of 2023 are seeing is that they’re at the top of the class, and what colleges are seeing is that the class of 2023 looks unusually weak compared to past classes.
What? How could you know that they reduced the number of high scoring 9th graders they admitted? And again, STA and NCS still have APs.
People here confuse their conspiracy theories with reality on an hourly basis.
Perhaps the assumption is that since these schools did away with standardized testing as part of the admissions process they are likely admitting lower scoring admits during these years? Possible, but they have to be strong students to get in anyway.
It’s not a “conspiracy theory.” It’s just that the count of students from elite privates on the presidential scholars eligibility list fell off a cliff this year.
School Without Walls:
Range, 2018-2022: 3-7
Average, 2018-2022: 5
Count, 2023: 11
Average SAT score for juniors and seniors
- 2018-19: 1277
- 2021-22: 1317
https://dcps.dc.gov/publication/dcps-data-set-sat
A “conspiracy theory” would be “at the same time they agreed to drop AP courses, the private schools also agreed to caps on high-scoring 9th grade admits.” I don’t have any of the inside information that would be necessary to make such a claim. And I can think of some alternate explanations. (For example, maybe the announcement that they were dropping APs caused applications from high-scoring 8th graders to fall off a cliff.) I’m just saying that, on the available evidence, the distribution of high-scoring students at local schools seems to have altered dramatically for the Class of ‘23 compared to historical patterns.
Wanted to address your conspiracy theory--the current STA senior class is a super smart one. I don't have a kid in it but there are easily a dozen outlier academic rockstars in it. It's the smartest class in a few years.
No dog in this fight, but how can you make a claim like that if the Presidential Scholar tally has dropped so much...Presidential Scholar is basically SAT scores. Doesn't really comport that there are a dozen outlier academic rockstars, yet only 4 are scoring high enough on the SAT (which doesn't require any academic outliers...just smart kids) to qualify for Presidential Scholars.
DP. Presidential scholars means nothing anymore because it only takes into consideration PSAT or early SAT scores. I know kids that had 1580 and 1600 on SAT but did not make presidential scholar because they did not take the final SAT until end of junior year past the deadline.
If you are going to make a statement, make sure it is not easily contradicted through a quick google search on 2023 Presidential Scholar qualifying (which does not take into account PSAT scores):
score exceptionally well on either the SAT of the College Board or the ACT of the American College Testing Program, based on tests taken during the year window that begins in August, 2019 and runs through October, 2022, (for the recognition cycle concluding in June, 2023), nominated by their Chief State School Officer (CSSO) or nominated by one of our partner recognition organizations based on outstanding scholarship.
I am 100 percent positive there are several students that have a 1580 or above that are not presidential scholars. 100 percent positive. That is at STA, NCS, and Sidwell. 100 percent positive.
They don't superscore for Presidential Scholars...maybe that is part of the problem? You have to score it in one sitting...I think maybe 1550 is the low-end of the range this year.
I mean, getting nominated for the award is an automatic thing (actually winning it requires completing essays and other stuff). Sorry to discredit you, but anyone getting a 1580+ in one sitting would absolutely have qualified.
I had twins and my daughter opted out of sending her test scores to third parties. She and her brother scored exactly the same on the ACT and her brother made the list and she did not. This is not difficult to understand.
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