WTU Contract and Charter Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your wrong to think of this as legislation. This is oversight. Charters can pay their teachers more if they want.

Somewhat true -- the amount that charters have to pay their teachers is based on the amount of funding they receive. This funding (in theory) should be equitable with DCPS. If DC is providing an additional 170 million to DCPS outside of the per pupil funding formula for teacher salaries, then DCPS is getting thousands of dollars more per student than charters.

This could all be solved by charters committing in writing to using the funds to pay their teachers more. They won’t. It will go into a black hole that no one can track. They will continue to pay their teachers 40,000 a year. It’s a feature not a bug.

Lies. My charter school matches the DCPS scale to be competitive for educators. Also, publicly available reports show that the average salary for charter teachers two years ago was over 65K with a max over 130K.

I’m PP. I just looked up my kids charter school (Breakthrough) and the average teacher salary is $64,860 with a range of 57,500-83,850. However all the admin make over $100,000. Let’s be honest I chose it for Montessori but I understand the teachers are not getting paid as high and that’s probably why we have had turnover.

The DCPS starting salary is 56k meaning that your school is paying starting salaries above DCPS. Have you looked at what DCPS administrators make? That contract has recently gone up as well. The starting salary is $130k.

ALL teachers in DC need fair compensation -- charter or DCPS. Looks like your charter has already tried to be competitive. What do you think will happen to teacher turnover next year when your charter (which had been competitive this year) is now competing with salaries that have gone up nearly 10,000+?

To be honest I don’t particularly care. That’s why the administration gets paid more. They need to figure out staffing. You seem to be arguing with yourself here anyway. I stated what teachers at my charter got paid and stated what administrators got paid. No where did I make a judgment about the pay. I’m of the opinion if a charter teacher doesn’t like the pay they should take their talents elsewhere. But I am somewhat insulated as there aren’t many Montessori schools to go to so people stay out of necessity.

I get it and I'm not arguing at all. There seems to be a prevailing narrative of teachers being dramatically underpaid with one of the prior posts mentioning charter teachers making 40k. I applaud you for looking it up and seeing that your charter starting range is $57K. I'm only noting that the 57K is above the range DCPS teachers started at this year and that the admin pay of your charter over $100k is still very much lower than the DCPS starting salary of $130K for administrators.

So, again, I'm not arguing but I do care and am very concerned that there will be a lot more turnover, lower morale and (charter) school instability if the resources aren't made available to raise teacher pay.

DP: Charter schools are the root cause of most of the instability outside of W3, so I'm not exactly sympathetic to this argument

Oh this is hilarious. You are naive or your child must be in the early grades.

Nope, the dysfunction and race to the bottom in DCPS is the root cause of why families choose charters. This would not change one bit if there were no charters.

Charters are the worst thing for my gentrifying DCPS IB. If charters didn’t exist, I don’t think my IB ever would have gentrified. You need people to be willing to stay in DC and the public school system if they live EOTP. Charters did that 10-15 years ago.

This pretty much nails it. There's a chicken/egg problem that cannot be reconciled with slogans and by ignoring history. Charters kept a generation of school age kids in DC when their families would have fled. Now that many of those areas have a critical mass of school age kids people complain that the same charters that kept them here are hurting DCPS. That's lazy and dumb.

The "charters aren't playing fair and are hurting DCPS" narrative also ignores that there's nothing stopping DCPS from competing. There are instances where DCPS schools are succeeding in making the case for their offering. Look at Ludlow and Two Rivers. TR is by all accounts falling down while LT is on the rise. There are a number of families moving from TR to LT. That's the education market working like it was supposed to. You don't compete with charters by howling at the moon that "they shouldn't exist" or that they "steal money from public schools" or making up data on compensation. You compete on education and outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your wrong to think of this as legislation. This is oversight. Charters can pay their teachers more if they want.

Somewhat true -- the amount that charters have to pay their teachers is based on the amount of funding they receive. This funding (in theory) should be equitable with DCPS. If DC is providing an additional 170 million to DCPS outside of the per pupil funding formula for teacher salaries, then DCPS is getting thousands of dollars more per student than charters.

This could all be solved by charters committing in writing to using the funds to pay their teachers more. They won’t. It will go into a black hole that no one can track. They will continue to pay their teachers 40,000 a year. It’s a feature not a bug.

Lies. My charter school matches the DCPS scale to be competitive for educators. Also, publicly available reports show that the average salary for charter teachers two years ago was over 65K with a max over 130K.

I’m PP. I just looked up my kids charter school (Breakthrough) and the average teacher salary is $64,860 with a range of 57,500-83,850. However all the admin make over $100,000. Let’s be honest I chose it for Montessori but I understand the teachers are not getting paid as high and that’s probably why we have had turnover.

The DCPS starting salary is 56k meaning that your school is paying starting salaries above DCPS. Have you looked at what DCPS administrators make? That contract has recently gone up as well. The starting salary is $130k.

ALL teachers in DC need fair compensation -- charter or DCPS. Looks like your charter has already tried to be competitive. What do you think will happen to teacher turnover next year when your charter (which had been competitive this year) is now competing with salaries that have gone up nearly 10,000+?

To be honest I don’t particularly care. That’s why the administration gets paid more. They need to figure out staffing. You seem to be arguing with yourself here anyway. I stated what teachers at my charter got paid and stated what administrators got paid. No where did I make a judgment about the pay. I’m of the opinion if a charter teacher doesn’t like the pay they should take their talents elsewhere. But I am somewhat insulated as there aren’t many Montessori schools to go to so people stay out of necessity.

I get it and I'm not arguing at all. There seems to be a prevailing narrative of teachers being dramatically underpaid with one of the prior posts mentioning charter teachers making 40k. I applaud you for looking it up and seeing that your charter starting range is $57K. I'm only noting that the 57K is above the range DCPS teachers started at this year and that the admin pay of your charter over $100k is still very much lower than the DCPS starting salary of $130K for administrators.

So, again, I'm not arguing but I do care and am very concerned that there will be a lot more turnover, lower morale and (charter) school instability if the resources aren't made available to raise teacher pay.

DP: Charter schools are the root cause of most of the instability outside of W3, so I'm not exactly sympathetic to this argument

Ok. So you are not sympathetic to this argument because you (wrongly) blame charters for instability. In your opinion then any action that hurts charters (and their teachers, students, families, etc) is ok?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your wrong to think of this as legislation. This is oversight. Charters can pay their teachers more if they want.

Somewhat true -- the amount that charters have to pay their teachers is based on the amount of funding they receive. This funding (in theory) should be equitable with DCPS. If DC is providing an additional 170 million to DCPS outside of the per pupil funding formula for teacher salaries, then DCPS is getting thousands of dollars more per student than charters.

This could all be solved by charters committing in writing to using the funds to pay their teachers more. They won’t. It will go into a black hole that no one can track. They will continue to pay their teachers 40,000 a year. It’s a feature not a bug.

Lies. My charter school matches the DCPS scale to be competitive for educators. Also, publicly available reports show that the average salary for charter teachers two years ago was over 65K with a max over 130K.

I’m PP. I just looked up my kids charter school (Breakthrough) and the average teacher salary is $64,860 with a range of 57,500-83,850. However all the admin make over $100,000. Let’s be honest I chose it for Montessori but I understand the teachers are not getting paid as high and that’s probably why we have had turnover.

The DCPS starting salary is 56k meaning that your school is paying starting salaries above DCPS. Have you looked at what DCPS administrators make? That contract has recently gone up as well. The starting salary is $130k.

ALL teachers in DC need fair compensation -- charter or DCPS. Looks like your charter has already tried to be competitive. What do you think will happen to teacher turnover next year when your charter (which had been competitive this year) is now competing with salaries that have gone up nearly 10,000+?

To be honest I don’t particularly care. That’s why the administration gets paid more. They need to figure out staffing. You seem to be arguing with yourself here anyway. I stated what teachers at my charter got paid and stated what administrators got paid. No where did I make a judgment about the pay. I’m of the opinion if a charter teacher doesn’t like the pay they should take their talents elsewhere. But I am somewhat insulated as there aren’t many Montessori schools to go to so people stay out of necessity.

I get it and I'm not arguing at all. There seems to be a prevailing narrative of teachers being dramatically underpaid with one of the prior posts mentioning charter teachers making 40k. I applaud you for looking it up and seeing that your charter starting range is $57K. I'm only noting that the 57K is above the range DCPS teachers started at this year and that the admin pay of your charter over $100k is still very much lower than the DCPS starting salary of $130K for administrators.

So, again, I'm not arguing but I do care and am very concerned that there will be a lot more turnover, lower morale and (charter) school instability if the resources aren't made available to raise teacher pay.

DP: Charter schools are the root cause of most of the instability outside of W3, so I'm not exactly sympathetic to this argument

Ok. So you are not sympathetic to this argument because you (wrongly) blame charters for instability. In your opinion then any action that hurts charters (and their teachers, students, families, etc) is ok?

No, but I don't think DCPS teachers dealing with a lapsed contract for three years and finally being compensated for work done in the past means that charter teachers also deserve new contracts/salaries.

[Anonymous]

THIS!!!!!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Council will soon be reviewing and approving the new WTU contract for teachers. It includes ~$170M for retroactive raises and bonuses. Though charter schools educate nearly half of students attending publicly funded schools in D.C., there is nothing in the legislation about providing $$$ for retroactive raises for charter schools.

If charters are willing to commit to spending the money on compensation/raises, why would we want to exclude nearly half of the teachers working in the District from this legislation? Personally, I don't think my child or my child's teacher should have access to fewer resources because we opted into a charter. How is this equitable?

This is stupid. The contract with between the WTU and the city. The charter teachers aren't in the WTU.

Look, I don't really like the WTU bc I think they do a massive disservice to their members, but your argument is dumb.

"This is stupid," as your opening is a clear indication of your character and temperament which makes me pray that you are not a teacher, educator, or parent. Why is it unreasonable to expect, regardless of WTU or not, that all public schools will be funded equally? Why is it unreasonable to expect that we would want all publicly funded schools to have access to the same resources?

It's stupid because the history of charter vs DCPS funding in this city is long and complicated. You seem unaware of it. Read up and you'll see that it's very complex and hard to say what "equal" even means. Teacher salaries alone are very complex because you have to consider the union, performance bonuses, and the labor market for certain specialized teachers. It sounds like you have a lot to learn.

But look. There are some benefits and some drawbacks to being part of a large system. DCPS has certain economies of scale. It's also less nimble. Pros and cons. Demanding that everything be the same when it benefits charters, but demanding flexibility when it suits you, is what makes you seem uninformed.

Thanks for the advice. I did the research. When the contract was negotiated in 2017, charters were provided equivalent funding to DCPS.

More important, I don't actually care about union contracts or district vs. charter. I care about the amount of money being spent on schools in the public sector to be the same. You can argue that charter schools are not public schools all you want, but for the purposes of funding in DC, that's how they are treated.

The charter my child attends is a better fit for my kid than our neighborhood school. They should have access to fewer resources in their school because...? I'm sure my kids school will find the money to raise teachers salary. And I'm sure that it will impact what they can spend on the rest of their program. Which is not what's going to happen in DCPS schools. Its hard to believe anyone who is not an ideologue would be OK with that.

When you sign your child up for a charter school, you are actively taking resources ($$$) from your neighborhood school. Anyone should not be ok with that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:THIS!!!!!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Council will soon be reviewing and approving the new WTU contract for teachers. It includes ~$170M for retroactive raises and bonuses. Though charter schools educate nearly half of students attending publicly funded schools in D.C., there is nothing in the legislation about providing $$$ for retroactive raises for charter schools.

If charters are willing to commit to spending the money on compensation/raises, why would we want to exclude nearly half of the teachers working in the District from this legislation? Personally, I don't think my child or my child's teacher should have access to fewer resources because we opted into a charter. How is this equitable?

This is stupid. The contract with between the WTU and the city. The charter teachers aren't in the WTU.

Look, I don't really like the WTU bc I think they do a massive disservice to their members, but your argument is dumb.

"This is stupid," as your opening is a clear indication of your character and temperament which makes me pray that you are not a teacher, educator, or parent. Why is it unreasonable to expect, regardless of WTU or not, that all public schools will be funded equally? Why is it unreasonable to expect that we would want all publicly funded schools to have access to the same resources?

It's stupid because the history of charter vs DCPS funding in this city is long and complicated. You seem unaware of it. Read up and you'll see that it's very complex and hard to say what "equal" even means. Teacher salaries alone are very complex because you have to consider the union, performance bonuses, and the labor market for certain specialized teachers. It sounds like you have a lot to learn.

But look. There are some benefits and some drawbacks to being part of a large system. DCPS has certain economies of scale. It's also less nimble. Pros and cons. Demanding that everything be the same when it benefits charters, but demanding flexibility when it suits you, is what makes you seem uninformed.

Thanks for the advice. I did the research. When the contract was negotiated in 2017, charters were provided equivalent funding to DCPS.

More important, I don't actually care about union contracts or district vs. charter. I care about the amount of money being spent on schools in the public sector to be the same. You can argue that charter schools are not public schools all you want, but for the purposes of funding in DC, that's how they are treated.

The charter my child attends is a better fit for my kid than our neighborhood school. They should have access to fewer resources in their school because...? I'm sure my kids school will find the money to raise teachers salary. And I'm sure that it will impact what they can spend on the rest of their program. Which is not what's going to happen in DCPS schools. Its hard to believe anyone who is not an ideologue would be OK with that.

When you sign your child up for a charter school, you are actively taking resources ($$$) from your neighborhood school. Anyone should not be ok with that

Oh give it a break. Families don’t send their kids to their neighborhood DCPS school for so many valid reasons.

As someone pointed out accurately earlier, provide appropriate education to meet my kids needs in a calm, productive learning environment. If you can’t do that, no way am I sending my kid.

Frankly families care about their own kids and that’s their top priority, not their neighborhood schools. If you want families to send kids to their neighborhood school, then DCPS needs to clean up its mess, stop focusing just on the bottom, and scrape the BS restorative justice program where kids have no consequences and behavior issues on the classroom is a shi*show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THIS!!!!!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Council will soon be reviewing and approving the new WTU contract for teachers. It includes ~$170M for retroactive raises and bonuses. Though charter schools educate nearly half of students attending publicly funded schools in D.C., there is nothing in the legislation about providing $$$ for retroactive raises for charter schools.

If charters are willing to commit to spending the money on compensation/raises, why would we want to exclude nearly half of the teachers working in the District from this legislation? Personally, I don't think my child or my child's teacher should have access to fewer resources because we opted into a charter. How is this equitable?

This is stupid. The contract with between the WTU and the city. The charter teachers aren't in the WTU.

Look, I don't really like the WTU bc I think they do a massive disservice to their members, but your argument is dumb.

"This is stupid," as your opening is a clear indication of your character and temperament which makes me pray that you are not a teacher, educator, or parent. Why is it unreasonable to expect, regardless of WTU or not, that all public schools will be funded equally? Why is it unreasonable to expect that we would want all publicly funded schools to have access to the same resources?

It's stupid because the history of charter vs DCPS funding in this city is long and complicated. You seem unaware of it. Read up and you'll see that it's very complex and hard to say what "equal" even means. Teacher salaries alone are very complex because you have to consider the union, performance bonuses, and the labor market for certain specialized teachers. It sounds like you have a lot to learn.

But look. There are some benefits and some drawbacks to being part of a large system. DCPS has certain economies of scale. It's also less nimble. Pros and cons. Demanding that everything be the same when it benefits charters, but demanding flexibility when it suits you, is what makes you seem uninformed.

Thanks for the advice. I did the research. When the contract was negotiated in 2017, charters were provided equivalent funding to DCPS.

More important, I don't actually care about union contracts or district vs. charter. I care about the amount of money being spent on schools in the public sector to be the same. You can argue that charter schools are not public schools all you want, but for the purposes of funding in DC, that's how they are treated.

The charter my child attends is a better fit for my kid than our neighborhood school. They should have access to fewer resources in their school because...? I'm sure my kids school will find the money to raise teachers salary. And I'm sure that it will impact what they can spend on the rest of their program. Which is not what's going to happen in DCPS schools. Its hard to believe anyone who is not an ideologue would be OK with that.

When you sign your child up for a charter school, you are actively taking resources ($$$) from your neighborhood school. Anyone should not be ok with that

Oh give it a break. Families don’t send their kids to their neighborhood DCPS school for so many valid reasons.

As someone pointed out accurately earlier, provide appropriate education to meet my kids needs in a calm, productive learning environment. If you can’t do that, no way am I sending my kid.

Frankly families care about their own kids and that’s their top priority, not their neighborhood schools. If you want families to send kids to their neighborhood school, then DCPS needs to clean up its mess, stop focusing just on the bottom, and scrape the BS restorative justice program where kids have no consequences and behavior issues on the classroom is a shi*show.

Somebody really took the time in their day to write that paragraph of hyperbole, nodded, and thought, yep, this is it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THIS!!!!!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Council will soon be reviewing and approving the new WTU contract for teachers. It includes ~$170M for retroactive raises and bonuses. Though charter schools educate nearly half of students attending publicly funded schools in D.C., there is nothing in the legislation about providing $$$ for retroactive raises for charter schools.

If charters are willing to commit to spending the money on compensation/raises, why would we want to exclude nearly half of the teachers working in the District from this legislation? Personally, I don't think my child or my child's teacher should have access to fewer resources because we opted into a charter. How is this equitable?

This is stupid. The contract with between the WTU and the city. The charter teachers aren't in the WTU.

Look, I don't really like the WTU bc I think they do a massive disservice to their members, but your argument is dumb.

"This is stupid," as your opening is a clear indication of your character and temperament which makes me pray that you are not a teacher, educator, or parent. Why is it unreasonable to expect, regardless of WTU or not, that all public schools will be funded equally? Why is it unreasonable to expect that we would want all publicly funded schools to have access to the same resources?

It's stupid because the history of charter vs DCPS funding in this city is long and complicated. You seem unaware of it. Read up and you'll see that it's very complex and hard to say what "equal" even means. Teacher salaries alone are very complex because you have to consider the union, performance bonuses, and the labor market for certain specialized teachers. It sounds like you have a lot to learn.

But look. There are some benefits and some drawbacks to being part of a large system. DCPS has certain economies of scale. It's also less nimble. Pros and cons. Demanding that everything be the same when it benefits charters, but demanding flexibility when it suits you, is what makes you seem uninformed.

Thanks for the advice. I did the research. When the contract was negotiated in 2017, charters were provided equivalent funding to DCPS.

More important, I don't actually care about union contracts or district vs. charter. I care about the amount of money being spent on schools in the public sector to be the same. You can argue that charter schools are not public schools all you want, but for the purposes of funding in DC, that's how they are treated.

The charter my child attends is a better fit for my kid than our neighborhood school. They should have access to fewer resources in their school because...? I'm sure my kids school will find the money to raise teachers salary. And I'm sure that it will impact what they can spend on the rest of their program. Which is not what's going to happen in DCPS schools. Its hard to believe anyone who is not an ideologue would be OK with that.

When you sign your child up for a charter school, you are actively taking resources ($$$) from your neighborhood school. Anyone should not be ok with that

Oh give it a break. Families don’t send their kids to their neighborhood DCPS school for so many valid reasons.

As someone pointed out accurately earlier, provide appropriate education to meet my kids needs in a calm, productive learning environment. If you can’t do that, no way am I sending my kid.

Frankly families care about their own kids and that’s their top priority, not their neighborhood schools. If you want families to send kids to their neighborhood school, then DCPS needs to clean up its mess, stop focusing just on the bottom, and scrape the BS restorative justice program where kids have no consequences and behavior issues on the classroom is a shi*show.

Somebody really took the time in their day to write that paragraph of hyperbole, nodded, and thought, yep, this is it.

Sorry if the truth hurts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THIS!!!!!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Council will soon be reviewing and approving the new WTU contract for teachers. It includes ~$170M for retroactive raises and bonuses. Though charter schools educate nearly half of students attending publicly funded schools in D.C., there is nothing in the legislation about providing $$$ for retroactive raises for charter schools.

If charters are willing to commit to spending the money on compensation/raises, why would we want to exclude nearly half of the teachers working in the District from this legislation? Personally, I don't think my child or my child's teacher should have access to fewer resources because we opted into a charter. How is this equitable?

This is stupid. The contract with between the WTU and the city. The charter teachers aren't in the WTU.

Look, I don't really like the WTU bc I think they do a massive disservice to their members, but your argument is dumb.

"This is stupid," as your opening is a clear indication of your character and temperament which makes me pray that you are not a teacher, educator, or parent. Why is it unreasonable to expect, regardless of WTU or not, that all public schools will be funded equally? Why is it unreasonable to expect that we would want all publicly funded schools to have access to the same resources?

It's stupid because the history of charter vs DCPS funding in this city is long and complicated. You seem unaware of it. Read up and you'll see that it's very complex and hard to say what "equal" even means. Teacher salaries alone are very complex because you have to consider the union, performance bonuses, and the labor market for certain specialized teachers. It sounds like you have a lot to learn.

But look. There are some benefits and some drawbacks to being part of a large system. DCPS has certain economies of scale. It's also less nimble. Pros and cons. Demanding that everything be the same when it benefits charters, but demanding flexibility when it suits you, is what makes you seem uninformed.

Thanks for the advice. I did the research. When the contract was negotiated in 2017, charters were provided equivalent funding to DCPS.

More important, I don't actually care about union contracts or district vs. charter. I care about the amount of money being spent on schools in the public sector to be the same. You can argue that charter schools are not public schools all you want, but for the purposes of funding in DC, that's how they are treated.

The charter my child attends is a better fit for my kid than our neighborhood school. They should have access to fewer resources in their school because...? I'm sure my kids school will find the money to raise teachers salary. And I'm sure that it will impact what they can spend on the rest of their program. Which is not what's going to happen in DCPS schools. Its hard to believe anyone who is not an ideologue would be OK with that.

When you sign your child up for a charter school, you are actively taking resources ($$$) from your neighborhood school. Anyone should not be ok with that

Oh give it a break. Families don’t send their kids to their neighborhood DCPS school for so many valid reasons.

As someone pointed out accurately earlier, provide appropriate education to meet my kids needs in a calm, productive learning environment. If you can’t do that, no way am I sending my kid.

Frankly families care about their own kids and that’s their top priority, not their neighborhood schools. If you want families to send kids to their neighborhood school, then DCPS needs to clean up its mess, stop focusing just on the bottom, and scrape the BS restorative justice program where kids have no consequences and behavior issues on the classroom is a shi*show.

Somebody really took the time in their day to write that paragraph of hyperbole, nodded, and thought, yep, this is it.

Sorry if the truth hurts.

If you would like to do a SO thread, I'd love to hear 1) how this is true of DCPS schools; and 2) how your charter differs. doesn't really belong on here

[Anonymous]

I’ve taught at two DC charters. The part of the contracts I remember most vividly was “you can be let go at any time without notice.” I took that to mean that I could leave at any time without notice, which I did, when I accepted an offer from DCPS. There’s more than salary differences going on here.