Why are people more sympathetic to Lindsay Clancy than Andrea Yates? (Child death mentioned)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having PPA/PPD and intrusive thoughts was the scariest, most mind-bending experience of my life. It is unfortunately not hard to imagine someone with a more severe form being moved to uncontrollable extremes. I feel nothing but horrible sadness for all involved.

So then why did he leave the kids with her? She was on leave from work and in 5 days/week outpatient care. Did that not feel that serious to him?

NP. I’m not going to judge this guy. Maybe he thought she was doing better. Maybe she claimed she wasn’t having any thoughts of harming herself or others. Maybe the kids were already in bed for the night and he didn’t think she’d interact with them. Maybe he’d been watching all of them like a hawk for months and just needed 20 minutes to himself. Maybe his wife asked for takeout and he was trying to make things as smooth for her as possible. I don’t know why he left them, but he’s a victim in this too. His children are all dead and his wife will be incarcerated/institutionalized. He may be contemplating suicide himself at this point.

Of course he is a victim but it just seems like a very odd choice. If my husband were on leave from work in full time outpatient care for mental illness, I would never in my wildest dreams leave him alone with our children.

An outpatient program would indicate that they felt she wasn't at immediate risk to harm herself or others. He was working from home fulll time to support her as much as possible. We have no idea of the specifcs of the case but it is very likely that there was no expectation of 24/7 observation and she may never even have threatened to hurt the kids. The vast, vast majority of people with mental illness never hurt others. Many many people are in outpatient treatment programs for mental illness and their spouses are not providing 24/7 care. If someone is assessed as needing 24/7 supervision, they would be inpatient. This man went out to pick up dinner and came home to find his 3 kids “unconscious, with obvious signs of severe trauma,” at the hands of his wife. He is a victim. Your victim blaming and making him responsible for her actions is pretty vile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one is sympathetic to either of them. Maybe they are paying lip service to sound enlightening, but only a monster can murder their own child.

I have no idea who this Clancy person is, but Andrea Yates gets a lot of sympathy. Tons.

Really? I don't remember that being the case. I remember hearing that she was told not to not have more kids due to previous post partum depression. yet she still chose to have another child and it out her over the edge. I think she was judge pretty harshly for this.

It takes a man and women to make a baby. Her husband was fully aware of her condition yet decided he couldn't wear a condom or pull out to stop having more kids? Was she allowed to have an abortion if she wanted one? Why didnt he drive her to a clinic then? Why is the man always blameless?

Maybe she was fine after the first 2 kids so this came as a shock the third go round. Sounds like she was in IOP care so maybe he thought she was properly being treated and was okay for short periods of time. I’m sure more will come out eventually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having PPA/PPD and intrusive thoughts was the scariest, most mind-bending experience of my life. It is unfortunately not hard to imagine someone with a more severe form being moved to uncontrollable extremes. I feel nothing but horrible sadness for all involved.

So then why did he leave the kids with her? She was on leave from work and in 5 days/week outpatient care. Did that not feel that serious to him?

NP. I’m not going to judge this guy. Maybe he thought she was doing better. Maybe she claimed she wasn’t having any thoughts of harming herself or others. Maybe the kids were already in bed for the night and he didn’t think she’d interact with them. Maybe he’d been watching all of them like a hawk for months and just needed 20 minutes to himself. Maybe his wife asked for takeout and he was trying to make things as smooth for her as possible. I don’t know why he left them, but he’s a victim in this too. His children are all dead and his wife will be incarcerated/institutionalized. He may be contemplating suicide himself at this point.

Of course he is a victim but it just seems like a very odd choice. If my husband were on leave from work in full time outpatient care for mental illness, I would never in my wildest dreams leave him alone with our children.

An outpatient program would indicate that they felt she wasn't at immediate risk to harm herself or others. He was working from home fulll time to support her as much as possible. We have no idea of the specifcs of the case but it is very likely that there was no expectation of 24/7 observation and she may never even have threatened to hurt the kids. The vast, vast majority of people with mental illness never hurt others. Many many people are in outpatient treatment programs for mental illness and their spouses are not providing 24/7 care. If someone is assessed as needing 24/7 supervision, they would be inpatient. This man went out to pick up dinner and came home to find his 3 kids “unconscious, with obvious signs of severe trauma,” at the hands of his wife. He is a victim. Your victim blaming and making him responsible for her actions is pretty vile.

Its an anonymous message board and its a fair question why he thought this was a good decision. That doesn't make him responsible. I'm allowed to wonder - you aren't the thought police.

NP but you’re a horribly non-empathetic person to “wonder” that about the husband. Horribly.

[Anonymous]

I think people are more educated AND ALSO, yes I think Clancy is more sympathetic. This is terrible but Clancy is cute, young, athletic, a nurse. She looks like a typical pinterest mom trying to achieve the American dream. Yates was in a strange religion, lived in a bus, had 6 kids not 3 which some people may find odd, and the pictures of her that circulated showed a scarily out of it woman. I felt horrible for her, but I can see how her "image" didn't garner as much sympathy. And I thought the dad in the Yates case was hideously negligent as a spouse and as a parent. Not enough info yet on the Clancy's to know if the husband was out to lunch or not.
/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having PPA/PPD and intrusive thoughts was the scariest, most mind-bending experience of my life. It is unfortunately not hard to imagine someone with a more severe form being moved to uncontrollable extremes. I feel nothing but horrible sadness for all involved.

So then why did he leave the kids with her? She was on leave from work and in 5 days/week outpatient care. Did that not feel that serious to him?

NP. I’m not going to judge this guy. Maybe he thought she was doing better. Maybe she claimed she wasn’t having any thoughts of harming herself or others. Maybe the kids were already in bed for the night and he didn’t think she’d interact with them. Maybe he’d been watching all of them like a hawk for months and just needed 20 minutes to himself. Maybe his wife asked for takeout and he was trying to make things as smooth for her as possible. I don’t know why he left them, but he’s a victim in this too. His children are all dead and his wife will be incarcerated/institutionalized. He may be contemplating suicide himself at this point.

Of course he is a victim but it just seems like a very odd choice. If my husband were on leave from work in full time outpatient care for mental illness, I would never in my wildest dreams leave him alone with our children.

An outpatient program would indicate that they felt she wasn't at immediate risk to harm herself or others. He was working from home fulll time to support her as much as possible. We have no idea of the specifcs of the case but it is very likely that there was no expectation of 24/7 observation and she may never even have threatened to hurt the kids. The vast, vast majority of people with mental illness never hurt others. Many many people are in outpatient treatment programs for mental illness and their spouses are not providing 24/7 care. If someone is assessed as needing 24/7 supervision, they would be inpatient. This man went out to pick up dinner and came home to find his 3 kids “unconscious, with obvious signs of severe trauma,” at the hands of his wife. He is a victim. Your victim blaming and making him responsible for her actions is pretty vile.

Its an anonymous message board and its a fair question why he thought this was a good decision. That doesn't make him responsible. I'm allowed to wonder - you aren't the thought police.

I didn't say you couldn't wonder nor did I try to police your thoughts - I just said that your victim blaming and thoughts were vile. It is an ignorant question but yes you can ask it online and I can judge you for it online.

[Anonymous]

It's been 30 years since Yates. The general public knows more about PPD so they are more empathetic. Also at the time the media painted Yates as a religious nutjob, not a suffering mom.

The public is more aware of mental health issues and generally accepts mental illness as justification for everything.

I find myself being a little less sympathetic to Clancy because of her profession. I feel the standard for her is higher.


I feel just awful for her husband all 3 kids dead because your wife their mom murdered them. Don't know how you recover from that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having PPA/PPD and intrusive thoughts was the scariest, most mind-bending experience of my life. It is unfortunately not hard to imagine someone with a more severe form being moved to uncontrollable extremes. I feel nothing but horrible sadness for all involved.

So then why did he leave the kids with her? She was on leave from work and in 5 days/week outpatient care. Did that not feel that serious to him?

NP. I’m not going to judge this guy. Maybe he thought she was doing better. Maybe she claimed she wasn’t having any thoughts of harming herself or others. Maybe the kids were already in bed for the night and he didn’t think she’d interact with them. Maybe he’d been watching all of them like a hawk for months and just needed 20 minutes to himself. Maybe his wife asked for takeout and he was trying to make things as smooth for her as possible. I don’t know why he left them, but he’s a victim in this too. His children are all dead and his wife will be incarcerated/institutionalized. He may be contemplating suicide himself at this point.

Of course he is a victim but it just seems like a very odd choice. If my husband were on leave from work in full time outpatient care for mental illness, I would never in my wildest dreams leave him alone with our children.

An outpatient program would indicate that they felt she wasn't at immediate risk to harm herself or others. He was working from home fulll time to support her as much as possible. We have no idea of the specifcs of the case but it is very likely that there was no expectation of 24/7 observation and she may never even have threatened to hurt the kids. The vast, vast majority of people with mental illness never hurt others. Many many people are in outpatient treatment programs for mental illness and their spouses are not providing 24/7 care. If someone is assessed as needing 24/7 supervision, they would be inpatient. This man went out to pick up dinner and came home to find his 3 kids “unconscious, with obvious signs of severe trauma,” at the hands of his wife. He is a victim. Your victim blaming and making him responsible for her actions is pretty vile.

Its an anonymous message board and its a fair question why he thought this was a good decision. That doesn't make him responsible. I'm allowed to wonder - you aren't the thought police.

I didn't say you couldn't wonder nor did I try to police your thoughts - I just said that your victim blaming and thoughts were vile. It is an ignorant question but yes you can ask it online and I can judge you for it online.

Are you trying to insult me? That's fine - I'm far from the only one wondering about this, including him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having PPA/PPD and intrusive thoughts was the scariest, most mind-bending experience of my life. It is unfortunately not hard to imagine someone with a more severe form being moved to uncontrollable extremes. I feel nothing but horrible sadness for all involved.

So then why did he leave the kids with her? She was on leave from work and in 5 days/week outpatient care. Did that not feel that serious to him?

He went to pick up takeout. He presumably had no idea anything would happen while he stepped out.

Has he not heard of food DELIVERY?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having PPA/PPD and intrusive thoughts was the scariest, most mind-bending experience of my life. It is unfortunately not hard to imagine someone with a more severe form being moved to uncontrollable extremes. I feel nothing but horrible sadness for all involved.

So then why did he leave the kids with her? She was on leave from work and in 5 days/week outpatient care. Did that not feel that serious to him?

NP. I’m not going to judge this guy. Maybe he thought she was doing better. Maybe she claimed she wasn’t having any thoughts of harming herself or others. Maybe the kids were already in bed for the night and he didn’t think she’d interact with them. Maybe he’d been watching all of them like a hawk for months and just needed 20 minutes to himself. Maybe his wife asked for takeout and he was trying to make things as smooth for her as possible. I don’t know why he left them, but he’s a victim in this too. His children are all dead and his wife will be incarcerated/institutionalized. He may be contemplating suicide himself at this point.

Of course he is a victim but it just seems like a very odd choice. If my husband were on leave from work in full time outpatient care for mental illness, I would never in my wildest dreams leave him alone with our children.

If she required 24/7 observation due to risk of suicide or homocide, they would have admitted her to hospital. Still, even mental health experts can’t predict with 100 % certainty future risk. It’s a judgement call. We can hardly expect non-mental health experts to judge risk.

[Anonymous]

The local moms FB group says she was impatient but was released - maybe due to insurance only authorizing a certain # of days. That doesn’t mean she was cleared to be alone with the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The local moms FB group says she was impatient but was released - maybe due to insurance only authorizing a certain # of days. That doesn’t mean she was cleared to be alone with the kids.

There are a lot of rumours and snippets of third hand information floating around with no reliable sources. There are not enough facts to know yet what happened contextually or what her mental condition was or what treatment she was or wasn't in or what the expectations were or what happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having PPA/PPD and intrusive thoughts was the scariest, most mind-bending experience of my life. It is unfortunately not hard to imagine someone with a more severe form being moved to uncontrollable extremes. I feel nothing but horrible sadness for all involved.

So then why did he leave the kids with her? She was on leave from work and in 5 days/week outpatient care. Did that not feel that serious to him?

He went to pick up takeout. He presumably had no idea anything would happen while he stepped out.

Has he not heard of food DELIVERY?

Hmmm maybe getting that take out saved his life. Either way what a tragedy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having PPA/PPD and intrusive thoughts was the scariest, most mind-bending experience of my life. It is unfortunately not hard to imagine someone with a more severe form being moved to uncontrollable extremes. I feel nothing but horrible sadness for all involved.

So then why did he leave the kids with her? She was on leave from work and in 5 days/week outpatient care. Did that not feel that serious to him?

NP. I’m not going to judge this guy. Maybe he thought she was doing better. Maybe she claimed she wasn’t having any thoughts of harming herself or others. Maybe the kids were already in bed for the night and he didn’t think she’d interact with them. Maybe he’d been watching all of them like a hawk for months and just needed 20 minutes to himself. Maybe his wife asked for takeout and he was trying to make things as smooth for her as possible. I don’t know why he left them, but he’s a victim in this too. His children are all dead and his wife will be incarcerated/institutionalized. He may be contemplating suicide himself at this point.

Of course he is a victim but it just seems like a very odd choice. If my husband were on leave from work in full time outpatient care for mental illness, I would never in my wildest dreams leave him alone with our children.

An outpatient program would indicate that they felt she wasn't at immediate risk to harm herself or others. He was working from home fulll time to support her as much as possible. We have no idea of the specifcs of the case but it is very likely that there was no expectation of 24/7 observation and she may never even have threatened to hurt the kids. The vast, vast majority of people with mental illness never hurt others. Many many people are in outpatient treatment programs for mental illness and their spouses are not providing 24/7 care. If someone is assessed as needing 24/7 supervision, they would be inpatient. This man went out to pick up dinner and came home to find his 3 kids “unconscious, with obvious signs of severe trauma,” at the hands of his wife. He is a victim. Your victim blaming and making him responsible for her actions is pretty vile.

Its an anonymous message board and its a fair question why he thought this was a good decision. That doesn't make him responsible. I'm allowed to wonder - you aren't the thought police.

I didn't say you couldn't wonder nor did I try to police your thoughts - I just said that your victim blaming and thoughts were vile. It is an ignorant question but yes you can ask it online and I can judge you for it online.

Are you trying to insult me? That's fine - I'm far from the only one wondering about this, including him.

Give the man a break. You expect him to care for his wife 24-7 (can’t even take 20 minutes to get takeout), care for the three young children, hold down a full time job to support the family, all on his own. Why aren’t you asking, where were her parents? Her siblings? Where were her friends?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having PPA/PPD and intrusive thoughts was the scariest, most mind-bending experience of my life. It is unfortunately not hard to imagine someone with a more severe form being moved to uncontrollable extremes. I feel nothing but horrible sadness for all involved.

So then why did he leave the kids with her? She was on leave from work and in 5 days/week outpatient care. Did that not feel that serious to him?

He went to pick up takeout. He presumably had no idea anything would happen while he stepped out.

Has he not heard of food DELIVERY?

Presumably he was going to sleep that evening, and might also use the bathroom or shower. If his wife needed 24 hour supervision she should have been inpatient. If she's home the expectation would be that she was not a threat to others and therefore safe to leave alone with the children for a short period of time. And even if he had ordered delivery if she was intent on doing harm to herself and/or her children she would have found an opportunity - all it takes is a few moments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The local moms FB group says she was impatient but was released - maybe due to insurance only authorizing a certain # of days. That doesn’t mean she was cleared to be alone with the kids.

There are a lot of rumours and snippets of third hand information floating around with no reliable sources. There are not enough facts to know yet what happened contextually or what her mental condition was or what treatment she was or wasn't in or what the expectations were or what happened.

you don’t say?????