Even a Little Alcohol Can Harm Your Health

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The article is linked in this thread:

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1106124.page

Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Notably, none of the experts we spoke to called for abstaining completely, unless you have an alcohol use disorder or are pregnant.”

I mean, the main message here is what we have heard from the medical profession for a long time - stick to the drinking guidelines or abstain.

+1. I think the negative reaction is because people don't want to accept that moderate drinking means a drink here or there versus a drink or more every day.

But for women, the guidelines *are* no more than one drink per day. Not “a drink here or there.”

I think some people drink more than that and are defensive, sure. But, as PP pointed out with the CDC “don’t drink if you’re of childbearing age” example, these messages can go to the extreme, and end up not being helpful. Personally, I think health advice in these discrete chunks isn’t particularly helpful in getting people to balance out their overall risks. People do plenty of things that aren’t ideal for their health; the moralism associated with alcohol consumption undermines that fact.

No one is moralizing. Consumption of alcohol is harmful to your health. That’s the fact Just stop. Drinkers will drink and justify their consumption of alcohol. You are the only one undermining the facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Notably, none of the experts we spoke to called for abstaining completely, unless you have an alcohol use disorder or are pregnant.”

I mean, the main message here is what we have heard from the medical profession for a long time - stick to the drinking guidelines or abstain.

+1. I think the negative reaction is because people don't want to accept that moderate drinking means a drink here or there versus a drink or more every day.

But for women, the guidelines *are* no more than one drink per day. Not “a drink here or there.”

I think some people drink more than that and are defensive, sure. But, as PP pointed out with the CDC “don’t drink if you’re of childbearing age” example, these messages can go to the extreme, and end up not being helpful. Personally, I think health advice in these discrete chunks isn’t particularly helpful in getting people to balance out their overall risks. People do plenty of things that aren’t ideal for their health; the moralism associated with alcohol consumption undermines that fact.

No one is moralizing. Consumption of alcohol is harmful to your health. That’s the fact Just stop. Drinkers will drink and justify their consumption of alcohol. You are the only one undermining the facts.

So are doughnuts and bacon. Shrug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Recent research makes it clear that any amount of drinking can be detrimental.
Sorry to be a buzz-kill, but that nightly glass or two of wine is not improving your health. After decades of confusing and sometimes contradictory research (too much alcohol is bad for you but a little bit is good; some types of alcohol are better for you than others; just kidding, it’s all bad), the picture is becoming clearer: Even small amounts of alcohol can have health consequences…

… When experts talk about the dire health consequences linked to excessive alcohol use, people often assume that it’s directed at individuals who have an alcohol use disorder. But the health risks from drinking can come from moderate consumption as well.

“Risk starts to go up well below levels where people would think, ‘Oh, that person has an alcohol problem,’” said Dr. Tim Naimi, director of the University of Victoria’s Canadian Institute for Substance Use Research. “Alcohol is harmful to the health starting at very low levels.”..

… There is also emerging evidence “that there are risks even within these levels, especially for certain types of cancer and some forms of cardiovascular disease,” said Marissa Esser, who leads the alcohol program at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The recommended daily limits are not meant to be averaged over a week, either. In other words, if you abstain Monday through Thursday and have two or three drinks a night on the weekend, those weekend drinks count as excessive consumption. It’s both the cumulative drinks over time and the amount of alcohol in your system on any one occasion that can cause damage…
… When you drink alcohol, your body metabolizes it into acetaldehyde, a chemical that is toxic to cells. Acetaldehyde both “damages your DNA and prevents your body from repairing the damage,” Dr. Esser explained. “Once your DNA is damaged, then a cell can grow out of control and create a cancer tumor.”

NYTimes. 1/16

It is interesting that both cumulative drinks over time and the amount in your body cause damage. The article goes on to talk about the “benefit” from red wine was from other factors(exercising, eating better, etc) and not from wine.

And this is why the average American lives 5 years longer than the average Frenchie.

Oh wait.

Yeah the lower American life expectancy is not really attributable to drinking, it's about consumption of processed foods, higher salt, fat and sugar contents and less exercise.

Not to mention the French have universal health care coverage.

They also have a 25% VAT tax on all goods and services, which is how they fund said healthcare.

Imagine a 25% sales tax here on everything, from that car (new or used) to your last haircut or lawyer visit.

Not sure how that relates to life expectancy, but I can imagine because I have lived there.

I mean you basically pay more than that here with whatever the local tax rate is plus tip. In France you don't tip for those services. So figure what 5-20% sales tax pending where you live plus 15-20% tip...I would rather just pay 25% sales tax and get health care.

[Anonymous]

The CDC's guidance on alcohol can have a real impact on women, especially women of color:

Of particular note are states whose reporting laws, some of which mandate reporting, entail the provision of information to public health or law enforcement agencies on women's behavior during pregnancy, including the use of alcohol or drugs. Under these laws or other general state authorities, women have been arrested, civilly committed, subjected to forced interventions, or faced losing custody of their children. These attempts by the state to manage women's behavior have frequently occurred even in the absence of any negative birth outcome and are often rooted in nonscientific perceptions of women's behavior and fetal wellbeing. Evidence also suggests that sanctions disproportionately affect black women.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4937126/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Notably, none of the experts we spoke to called for abstaining completely, unless you have an alcohol use disorder or are pregnant.”

I mean, the main message here is what we have heard from the medical profession for a long time - stick to the drinking guidelines or abstain.

That is the messaging, but the reality is that any alcohol can harm your health. Public health authorities can't say everyone should stop drinking. But you should not try to convince yourself that alcohol is harmless or beneficial. It isn't. Drinking is a health decisions, just like eating doughnuts or drinking soda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Notably, none of the experts we spoke to called for abstaining completely, unless you have an alcohol use disorder or are pregnant.”

I mean, the main message here is what we have heard from the medical profession for a long time - stick to the drinking guidelines or abstain.

+1. I think the negative reaction is because people don't want to accept that moderate drinking means a drink here or there versus a drink or more every day.

But for women, the guidelines *are* no more than one drink per day. Not “a drink here or there.”

I think some people drink more than that and are defensive, sure. But, as PP pointed out with the CDC “don’t drink if you’re of childbearing age” example, these messages can go to the extreme, and end up not being helpful. Personally, I think health advice in these discrete chunks isn’t particularly helpful in getting people to balance out their overall risks. People do plenty of things that aren’t ideal for their health; the moralism associated with alcohol consumption undermines that fact.

That guideline is the MAXIMUM - any consumption above that is classed as excessive. I don't think this has been messaged well by the health authorities and that creates confusion. And yes, the inane "don't drink if you are childbearing age" type stuff doesn't help.

Right - the latter message is a nightmare.

And yes, I realize that guideline is the upper limit of what’s considered moderate (beyond that is heavy, not excessive). A woman who has, say, one drink four nights a week is below that, but it’s more than “here or there.” I also think people don’t realize that we’re talking about risk and probability here. Having two or three drinks on occasion slightly increases risk for certain negative outcomes, it’s not a death sentence.

I remember years ago telling my NP that I smoked pot on occasion and she shrugged and said, it’s really terrible for your lungs. That combination of matter of fact and non-judgmental really stuck with me, in a good way. It would be great if more healthcare providers could take that approach to various lifestyle choices.

I'm not trying to split hairs with you, but as a further example of how much the message is muddled, the NYT article says this, "“Excessive alcohol use” technically means anything above the U.S. Dietary Guidelines’ recommended daily limits. That’s more than two drinks a day for men and more than one drink a day for women." The CDC defines moderate as the 2 for men/1 for women standard and NIH/NIAAA defines "heavy" as "For men, consuming more than 4 drinks on any day or more than 14 drinks per week. For women, consuming more than 3 drinks on any day or more than 7 drinks per week."

Now to me, the word moderate means medium/normal but not a maximum or minimum and excessive is more than heavy. Add in risk/probability, anecdotes like the PP with the 85 year old father who drinks regularly, and the fact that I bet most adults don't agree on what moderate, heavy, and excessive it, and it's just a mess of a message.

You’re absolutely right - and I appreciate the debate! Part of the problem is the phrase “moderate drinking” has long been associated with benefits for heart health (which aren’t actually there), and without anyone actually defining what moderate drinking is. NIAAA’s definitions are associated with risks mostly for developing alcohol use disorder; the US Dietary guidelines are newer and take into account research on outcomes like cancer, etc.

So, yes, it’s a mess of a message, as you so aptly put it. For most people, I think a clear takeaway is the less alcohol, the better. The more you drink, the greater your risk of a variety of health problems: alcohol use disorder, depression, anxiety, liver disease, pancreatitis, etc. It really should be part of a broader discussion about modifiable health behaviors, including things like smoking, diet, exercise, sleep, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Notably, none of the experts we spoke to called for abstaining completely, unless you have an alcohol use disorder or are pregnant.”

I mean, the main message here is what we have heard from the medical profession for a long time - stick to the drinking guidelines or abstain.

That is the messaging, but the reality is that any alcohol can harm your health. Public health authorities can't say everyone should stop drinking. But you should not try to convince yourself that alcohol is harmless or beneficial. It isn't. Drinking is a health decisions, just like eating doughnuts or drinking soda.

I just posted, but this message is the kind of all or nothing thinking that’s not helpful, from a public health perspective. Someone having, for example, one drink per month is not meaningfully harming your health. We need to be thinking about regular behaviors, not occasional ones. Health communications shows that messaging like “any alcohol can harm your health” often ends up pushing people to heavier drinking, because they think well, f it, rather than thinking, less alcohol is better than more. Think of it as harm reduction vs. abstinence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Notably, none of the experts we spoke to called for abstaining completely, unless you have an alcohol use disorder or are pregnant.”

I mean, the main message here is what we have heard from the medical profession for a long time - stick to the drinking guidelines or abstain.

That is the messaging, but the reality is that any alcohol can harm your health. Public health authorities can't say everyone should stop drinking. But you should not try to convince yourself that alcohol is harmless or beneficial. It isn't. Drinking is a health decisions, just like eating doughnuts or drinking soda.

Who is saying that even small amounts of soda can harm your health? Having a can of sprite every day isn't great either, tons of people do it and yet the messaging is just to "limit" soda. Not that having ANY soda is bad for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Notably, none of the experts we spoke to called for abstaining completely, unless you have an alcohol use disorder or are pregnant.”

I mean, the main message here is what we have heard from the medical profession for a long time - stick to the drinking guidelines or abstain.

That is the messaging, but the reality is that any alcohol can harm your health. Public health authorities can't say everyone should stop drinking. But you should not try to convince yourself that alcohol is harmless or beneficial. It isn't. Drinking is a health decisions, just like eating doughnuts or drinking soda.

I just posted, but this message is the kind of all or nothing thinking that’s not helpful, from a public health perspective. Someone having, for example, one drink per month is not meaningfully harming your health. We need to be thinking about regular behaviors, not occasional ones. Health communications shows that messaging like “any alcohol can harm your health” often ends up pushing people to heavier drinking, because they think well, f it, rather than thinking, less alcohol is better than more. Think of it as harm reduction vs. abstinence.

'

That's my point. From a public health perspective, you can't tell people to abstain. It doesn't work. But just because public health official aren't saying abstain, it doesn't mean that alcohol isn't harmful or is beneficial. I agree that the public health messaging has to focus on harm reduction, but people shouldn't misinterpret that messaging to mean that light alcohol consumption has no negative effects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is the benefit of drinking compared to risk though? Pregnancy is a personal decision of risk and reward. Driving cars are a by-product of social and economical decisions. Running has a cardio benefit even though it can be disastrous for lower leg. I personally cant think of a benefit to alcohol besides maybe resveratol in wine but intake of berries and pistachios also provide that.

Joy? Happiness? Community?

I mean life is not all about Living Perfectly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Notably, none of the experts we spoke to called for abstaining completely, unless you have an alcohol use disorder or are pregnant.”

I mean, the main message here is what we have heard from the medical profession for a long time - stick to the drinking guidelines or abstain.

That is the messaging, but the reality is that any alcohol can harm your health. Public health authorities can't say everyone should stop drinking. But you should not try to convince yourself that alcohol is harmless or beneficial. It isn't. Drinking is a health decisions, just like eating doughnuts or drinking soda.

I just posted, but this message is the kind of all or nothing thinking that’s not helpful, from a public health perspective. Someone having, for example, one drink per month is not meaningfully harming your health. We need to be thinking about regular behaviors, not occasional ones. Health communications shows that messaging like “any alcohol can harm your health” often ends up pushing people to heavier drinking, because they think well, f it, rather than thinking, less alcohol is better than more. Think of it as harm reduction vs. abstinence.

'

That's my point. From a public health perspective, you can't tell people to abstain. It doesn't work. But just because public health official aren't saying abstain, it doesn't mean that alcohol isn't harmful or is beneficial. I agree that the public health messaging has to focus on harm reduction, but people shouldn't misinterpret that messaging to mean that light alcohol consumption has no negative effects.

DP. Is there any meaningful harm from drinking one glass of wine per week or per month? I mean if I want to optimize my health, I'll never have any highly-processed foods or soda or cookies. But how helpful/realistic is that really? Why is it important to tell people that even a little bit is harmful?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Recent research makes it clear that any amount of drinking can be detrimental.
Sorry to be a buzz-kill, but that nightly glass or two of wine is not improving your health. After decades of confusing and sometimes contradictory research (too much alcohol is bad for you but a little bit is good; some types of alcohol are better for you than others; just kidding, it’s all bad), the picture is becoming clearer: Even small amounts of alcohol can have health consequences…

… When experts talk about the dire health consequences linked to excessive alcohol use, people often assume that it’s directed at individuals who have an alcohol use disorder. But the health risks from drinking can come from moderate consumption as well.

“Risk starts to go up well below levels where people would think, ‘Oh, that person has an alcohol problem,’” said Dr. Tim Naimi, director of the University of Victoria’s Canadian Institute for Substance Use Research. “Alcohol is harmful to the health starting at very low levels.”..

… There is also emerging evidence “that there are risks even within these levels, especially for certain types of cancer and some forms of cardiovascular disease,” said Marissa Esser, who leads the alcohol program at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The recommended daily limits are not meant to be averaged over a week, either. In other words, if you abstain Monday through Thursday and have two or three drinks a night on the weekend, those weekend drinks count as excessive consumption. It’s both the cumulative drinks over time and the amount of alcohol in your system on any one occasion that can cause damage…
… When you drink alcohol, your body metabolizes it into acetaldehyde, a chemical that is toxic to cells. Acetaldehyde both “damages your DNA and prevents your body from repairing the damage,” Dr. Esser explained. “Once your DNA is damaged, then a cell can grow out of control and create a cancer tumor.”

NYTimes. 1/16

It is interesting that both cumulative drinks over time and the amount in your body cause damage. The article goes on to talk about the “benefit” from red wine was from other factors(exercising, eating better, etc) and not from wine.

Thread title = False.

If you want science, don't go to the NYT.

Ha! This. NYT is incredibly anti-science.

[Anonymous]

Overall, science & social science journalism is terrible. Journalists are not good at understanding or conveying nuance and the news organizations they work for want click bait-y headlines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the benefit of drinking compared to risk though? Pregnancy is a personal decision of risk and reward. Driving cars are a by-product of social and economical decisions. Running has a cardio benefit even though it can be disastrous for lower leg. I personally cant think of a benefit to alcohol besides maybe resveratol in wine but intake of berries and pistachios also provide that.

Joy? Happiness? Community?

I mean life is not all about Living Perfectly.

You can get all those things without drinking alcohol. Or having one glass at a party. If day-to-day joy & happiness must be served with alcohol, that's problem drinking.