Even a Little Alcohol Can Harm Your Health

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article is very vague as to what it is we know and what we don't know. For example is there any known harm from one drink per week? How do the effects of alcohol compare to the effects of highly processed foods? At the bottom they say nobody's saying you shouldn't drink at all but clearly that is the message the headline is conveying. It's very alarmist with no context. We eat, drink and do things that have proven harms all the time, but I feel like we still have these prohibition-era attitudes that put alcohol in a different category in terms of how it is messaged.

Yes, I would like to see the risk of 1 glass of wine as compared to 1 bag of potato chips or a bowl of ice cream.

Or a liter of soda.

Or a daily Starbucks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What is the benefit of drinking compared to risk though? Pregnancy is a personal decision of risk and reward. Driving cars are a by-product of social and economical decisions. Running has a cardio benefit even though it can be disastrous for lower leg. I personally cant think of a benefit to alcohol besides maybe resveratol in wine but intake of berries and pistachios also provide that.

Social interaction, pleasure, relaxation, pleasure

Also the risk of alcohol consumption by non alcoholics is extremely low.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the benefit of drinking compared to risk though? Pregnancy is a personal decision of risk and reward. Driving cars are a by-product of social and economical decisions. Running has a cardio benefit even though it can be disastrous for lower leg. I personally cant think of a benefit to alcohol besides maybe resveratol in wine but intake of berries and pistachios also provide that.

Social interaction, pleasure, relaxation, pleasure

Also the risk of alcohol consumption by non alcoholics is extremely low.

Wait until the NYT writes an article about the risks of second-hand drinking; nano-molecules jumping from glasses to your nose and giving you covid!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article is very vague as to what it is we know and what we don't know. For example is there any known harm from one drink per week? How do the effects of alcohol compare to the effects of highly processed foods? At the bottom they say nobody's saying you shouldn't drink at all but clearly that is the message the headline is conveying. It's very alarmist with no context. We eat, drink and do things that have proven harms all the time, but I feel like we still have these prohibition-era attitudes that put alcohol in a different category in terms of how it is messaged.

Yes, I would like to see the risk of 1 glass of wine as compared to 1 bag of potato chips or a bowl of ice cream.

Or a liter of soda.

Or a daily Starbucks

DP - if you mean just coffee itself, that’s not harmful (within reason). Daily venti Frappuccino is a different story.

But yeah, all of these things. Or the risk of never exercising, ever. Or only getting four hours of sleep a night.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This article is very vague as to what it is we know and what we don't know. For example is there any known harm from one drink per week? How do the effects of alcohol compare to the effects of highly processed foods? At the bottom they say nobody's saying you shouldn't drink at all but clearly that is the message the headline is conveying. It's very alarmist with no context. We eat, drink and do things that have proven harms all the time, but I feel like we still have these prohibition-era attitudes that put alcohol in a different category in terms of how it is messaged.

This comment is important to contextualize risks from alcohol consumption. They’re real, but when we’re talking about drinking at lower levels, it’s hard to know how they compare vs. other things like crappy diets, not exercising, not sleeping enough, etc.

A big part of the issue with alcohol is that most people who drink don’t know what a standard drink actually is. Relatedly, most people underestimate the amount they consume, which makes it hard to know how much alcohol is actually harmful. That is, if the people who report one drink a day are drinking more like two drinks a day, that matters for health outcomes, right?

I’m not advocating anyone drinks - the less alcohol, the better. OTOH, scolding women who sometimes drink two drinks/day (two actual drinks), for example, isn’t the best use of time, either.

It was not too long ago that the CDC was telling any woman not on birth control not to drink. That was awesome when my friends gave me the side eye because they knew I was TTC. For who knows what reason it did not occur to them that when you are TTC there are times of the month when you definitely know you are NOT pregnant and maybe you should leave your friends struggling with fertility issues TF alone when they want to have a brunch cocktail after their period shows up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Recent research makes it clear that any amount of drinking can be detrimental.
Sorry to be a buzz-kill, but that nightly glass or two of wine is not improving your health. After decades of confusing and sometimes contradictory research (too much alcohol is bad for you but a little bit is good; some types of alcohol are better for you than others; just kidding, it’s all bad), the picture is becoming clearer: Even small amounts of alcohol can have health consequences…

… When experts talk about the dire health consequences linked to excessive alcohol use, people often assume that it’s directed at individuals who have an alcohol use disorder. But the health risks from drinking can come from moderate consumption as well.

“Risk starts to go up well below levels where people would think, ‘Oh, that person has an alcohol problem,’” said Dr. Tim Naimi, director of the University of Victoria’s Canadian Institute for Substance Use Research. “Alcohol is harmful to the health starting at very low levels.”..

… There is also emerging evidence “that there are risks even within these levels, especially for certain types of cancer and some forms of cardiovascular disease,” said Marissa Esser, who leads the alcohol program at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The recommended daily limits are not meant to be averaged over a week, either. In other words, if you abstain Monday through Thursday and have two or three drinks a night on the weekend, those weekend drinks count as excessive consumption. It’s both the cumulative drinks over time and the amount of alcohol in your system on any one occasion that can cause damage…
… When you drink alcohol, your body metabolizes it into acetaldehyde, a chemical that is toxic to cells. Acetaldehyde both “damages your DNA and prevents your body from repairing the damage,” Dr. Esser explained. “Once your DNA is damaged, then a cell can grow out of control and create a cancer tumor.”

NYTimes. 1/16

It is interesting that both cumulative drinks over time and the amount in your body cause damage. The article goes on to talk about the “benefit” from red wine was from other factors(exercising, eating better, etc) and not from wine.

And this is why the average American lives 5 years longer than the average Frenchie.

Oh wait.

Yeah the lower American life expectancy is not really attributable to drinking, it's about consumption of processed foods, higher salt, fat and sugar contents and less exercise.

Not to mention the French have universal health care coverage.

They also have a 25% VAT tax on all goods and services, which is how they fund said healthcare.

Imagine a 25% sales tax here on everything, from that car (new or used) to your last haircut or lawyer visit.

Not sure how that relates to life expectancy, but I can imagine because I have lived there.

[Anonymous]

“Notably, none of the experts we spoke to called for abstaining completely, unless you have an alcohol use disorder or are pregnant.”

I mean, the main message here is what we have heard from the medical profession for a long time - stick to the drinking guidelines or abstain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Notably, none of the experts we spoke to called for abstaining completely, unless you have an alcohol use disorder or are pregnant.”

I mean, the main message here is what we have heard from the medical profession for a long time - stick to the drinking guidelines or abstain.

+1. I think the negative reaction is because people don't want to accept that moderate drinking means a drink here or there versus a drink or more every day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Notably, none of the experts we spoke to called for abstaining completely, unless you have an alcohol use disorder or are pregnant.”

I mean, the main message here is what we have heard from the medical profession for a long time - stick to the drinking guidelines or abstain.

+1. I think the negative reaction is because people don't want to accept that moderate drinking means a drink here or there versus a drink or more every day.

But for women, the guidelines *are* no more than one drink per day. Not “a drink here or there.”

I think some people drink more than that and are defensive, sure. But, as PP pointed out with the CDC “don’t drink if you’re of childbearing age” example, these messages can go to the extreme, and end up not being helpful. Personally, I think health advice in these discrete chunks isn’t particularly helpful in getting people to balance out their overall risks. People do plenty of things that aren’t ideal for their health; the moralism associated with alcohol consumption undermines that fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Notably, none of the experts we spoke to called for abstaining completely, unless you have an alcohol use disorder or are pregnant.”

I mean, the main message here is what we have heard from the medical profession for a long time - stick to the drinking guidelines or abstain.

+1. I think the negative reaction is because people don't want to accept that moderate drinking means a drink here or there versus a drink or more every day.

But for women, the guidelines *are* no more than one drink per day. Not “a drink here or there.”

I think some people drink more than that and are defensive, sure. But, as PP pointed out with the CDC “don’t drink if you’re of childbearing age” example, these messages can go to the extreme, and end up not being helpful. Personally, I think health advice in these discrete chunks isn’t particularly helpful in getting people to balance out their overall risks. People do plenty of things that aren’t ideal for their health; the moralism associated with alcohol consumption undermines that fact.

That guideline is the MAXIMUM - any consumption above that is classed as excessive. I don't think this has been messaged well by the health authorities and that creates confusion. And yes, the inane "don't drink if you are childbearing age" type stuff doesn't help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Notably, none of the experts we spoke to called for abstaining completely, unless you have an alcohol use disorder or are pregnant.”

I mean, the main message here is what we have heard from the medical profession for a long time - stick to the drinking guidelines or abstain.

+1. I think the negative reaction is because people don't want to accept that moderate drinking means a drink here or there versus a drink or more every day.

But for women, the guidelines *are* no more than one drink per day. Not “a drink here or there.”

I think some people drink more than that and are defensive, sure. But, as PP pointed out with the CDC “don’t drink if you’re of childbearing age” example, these messages can go to the extreme, and end up not being helpful. Personally, I think health advice in these discrete chunks isn’t particularly helpful in getting people to balance out their overall risks. People do plenty of things that aren’t ideal for their health; the moralism associated with alcohol consumption undermines that fact.

"Women" is a self-identity, based upon your drinking patterns among others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Notably, none of the experts we spoke to called for abstaining completely, unless you have an alcohol use disorder or are pregnant.”

I mean, the main message here is what we have heard from the medical profession for a long time - stick to the drinking guidelines or abstain.

+1. I think the negative reaction is because people don't want to accept that moderate drinking means a drink here or there versus a drink or more every day.

But for women, the guidelines *are* no more than one drink per day. Not “a drink here or there.”

I think some people drink more than that and are defensive, sure. But, as PP pointed out with the CDC “don’t drink if you’re of childbearing age” example, these messages can go to the extreme, and end up not being helpful. Personally, I think health advice in these discrete chunks isn’t particularly helpful in getting people to balance out their overall risks. People do plenty of things that aren’t ideal for their health; the moralism associated with alcohol consumption undermines that fact.

That guideline is the MAXIMUM - any consumption above that is classed as excessive. I don't think this has been messaged well by the health authorities and that creates confusion. And yes, the inane "don't drink if you are childbearing age" type stuff doesn't help.

Right - the latter message is a nightmare.

And yes, I realize that guideline is the upper limit of what’s considered moderate (beyond that is heavy, not excessive). A woman who has, say, one drink four nights a week is below that, but it’s more than “here or there.” I also think people don’t realize that we’re talking about risk and probability here. Having two or three drinks on occasion slightly increases risk for certain negative outcomes, it’s not a death sentence.

I remember years ago telling my NP that I smoked pot on occasion and she shrugged and said, it’s really terrible for your lungs. That combination of matter of fact and non-judgmental really stuck with me, in a good way. It would be great if more healthcare providers could take that approach to various lifestyle choices.

[Anonymous]

My dad is 85, drinks daily (and has been doing so for most of his life), and is one of the healthiest person I know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Notably, none of the experts we spoke to called for abstaining completely, unless you have an alcohol use disorder or are pregnant.”

I mean, the main message here is what we have heard from the medical profession for a long time - stick to the drinking guidelines or abstain.

+1. I think the negative reaction is because people don't want to accept that moderate drinking means a drink here or there versus a drink or more every day.

But for women, the guidelines *are* no more than one drink per day. Not “a drink here or there.”

I think some people drink more than that and are defensive, sure. But, as PP pointed out with the CDC “don’t drink if you’re of childbearing age” example, these messages can go to the extreme, and end up not being helpful. Personally, I think health advice in these discrete chunks isn’t particularly helpful in getting people to balance out their overall risks. People do plenty of things that aren’t ideal for their health; the moralism associated with alcohol consumption undermines that fact.

That guideline is the MAXIMUM - any consumption above that is classed as excessive. I don't think this has been messaged well by the health authorities and that creates confusion. And yes, the inane "don't drink if you are childbearing age" type stuff doesn't help.

Right - the latter message is a nightmare.

And yes, I realize that guideline is the upper limit of what’s considered moderate (beyond that is heavy, not excessive). A woman who has, say, one drink four nights a week is below that, but it’s more than “here or there.” I also think people don’t realize that we’re talking about risk and probability here. Having two or three drinks on occasion slightly increases risk for certain negative outcomes, it’s not a death sentence.

I remember years ago telling my NP that I smoked pot on occasion and she shrugged and said, it’s really terrible for your lungs. That combination of matter of fact and non-judgmental really stuck with me, in a good way. It would be great if more healthcare providers could take that approach to various lifestyle choices.

I'm not trying to split hairs with you, but as a further example of how much the message is muddled, the NYT article says this, "“Excessive alcohol use” technically means anything above the U.S. Dietary Guidelines’ recommended daily limits. That’s more than two drinks a day for men and more than one drink a day for women." The CDC defines moderate as the 2 for men/1 for women standard and NIH/NIAAA defines "heavy" as "For men, consuming more than 4 drinks on any day or more than 14 drinks per week. For women, consuming more than 3 drinks on any day or more than 7 drinks per week."

Now to me, the word moderate means medium/normal but not a maximum or minimum and excessive is more than heavy. Add in risk/probability, anecdotes like the PP with the 85 year old father who drinks regularly, and the fact that I bet most adults don't agree on what moderate, heavy, and excessive it, and it's just a mess of a message.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Recent research makes it clear that any amount of drinking can be detrimental.
Sorry to be a buzz-kill, but that nightly glass or two of wine is not improving your health. After decades of confusing and sometimes contradictory research (too much alcohol is bad for you but a little bit is good; some types of alcohol are better for you than others; just kidding, it’s all bad), the picture is becoming clearer: Even small amounts of alcohol can have health consequences…

… When experts talk about the dire health consequences linked to excessive alcohol use, people often assume that it’s directed at individuals who have an alcohol use disorder. But the health risks from drinking can come from moderate consumption as well.

“Risk starts to go up well below levels where people would think, ‘Oh, that person has an alcohol problem,’” said Dr. Tim Naimi, director of the University of Victoria’s Canadian Institute for Substance Use Research. “Alcohol is harmful to the health starting at very low levels.”..

… There is also emerging evidence “that there are risks even within these levels, especially for certain types of cancer and some forms of cardiovascular disease,” said Marissa Esser, who leads the alcohol program at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The recommended daily limits are not meant to be averaged over a week, either. In other words, if you abstain Monday through Thursday and have two or three drinks a night on the weekend, those weekend drinks count as excessive consumption. It’s both the cumulative drinks over time and the amount of alcohol in your system on any one occasion that can cause damage…
… When you drink alcohol, your body metabolizes it into acetaldehyde, a chemical that is toxic to cells. Acetaldehyde both “damages your DNA and prevents your body from repairing the damage,” Dr. Esser explained. “Once your DNA is damaged, then a cell can grow out of control and create a cancer tumor.”

NYTimes. 1/16

It is interesting that both cumulative drinks over time and the amount in your body cause damage. The article goes on to talk about the “benefit” from red wine was from other factors(exercising, eating better, etc) and not from wine.

Believing everything you read in today's NYT is probably worse for your health than a daily glass of wine.