“ED is to locked down full payers”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - I think what’s missing is that these kids aren’t looking to compare FA offers. They want to know what their top choice school is offering and move on if it’s not enough.

For my daughter, she spoke specifically to the FA office at each of the schools she was considering for ED. She asked specifically if the school did not give her enough aid (as determined by her), whether she could withdraw from the ED agreement. All 3 said that was correct, but asked that if that happened, she should come back to them and appeal the FA so that could take a second look at the package before she withdrew.

Anyway, I just see this repeated a lot, but at least among my kid’s friend group, they are definitely all seeking aid.

But often I hear that an appeal won't be back until after RD deadlines are passed. Also, once a kid withdraws, that ED offer is gone. Say she manages to successfully withdraw and get her RD applications in. She doesn't get to come back to the ED offer if the RD offers are not to her liking.

Yes, that is true in many cases. The whole point of ED is one only applies if it's their top school, they have no doubts about wanting to attend if admitted, and they can afford it if financial need is met (as defined by fafsa). ED is not for someone who needs to compare FA offers from multiple schools---that is what EA/RD is for. ED is for someone ready to commit to the school. So yes, it sucks but if you need to compare FA offers from multiple schools ED may not be for you. Just like if in Oct your kid is not 100% certain which school they want, then ED is not for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - I think what’s missing is that these kids aren’t looking to compare FA offers. They want to know what their top choice school is offering and move on if it’s not enough.

For my daughter, she spoke specifically to the FA office at each of the schools she was considering for ED. She asked specifically if the school did not give her enough aid (as determined by her), whether she could withdraw from the ED agreement. All 3 said that was correct, but asked that if that happened, she should come back to them and appeal the FA so that could take a second look at the package before she withdrew.

Anyway, I just see this repeated a lot, but at least among my kid’s friend group, they are definitely all seeking aid.

Is enough aid based on the school's own tuition calculator? Or just her family saying I think 5K a year would be comfortable for us?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - I think what’s missing is that these kids aren’t looking to compare FA offers. They want to know what their top choice school is offering and move on if it’s not enough.

For my daughter, she spoke specifically to the FA office at each of the schools she was considering for ED. She asked specifically if the school did not give her enough aid (as determined by her), whether she could withdraw from the ED agreement. All 3 said that was correct, but asked that if that happened, she should come back to them and appeal the FA so that could take a second look at the package before she withdrew.

Anyway, I just see this repeated a lot, but at least among my kid’s friend group, they are definitely all seeking aid.

But often I hear that an appeal won't be back until after RD deadlines are passed. Also, once a kid withdraws, that ED offer is gone. Say she manages to successfully withdraw and get her RD applications in. She doesn't get to come back to the ED offer if the RD offers are not to her liking.

None of these kids delayed doing their EA and RD applications. My kid finished everything by 12/1.

I don’t think they have to withdraw during the appeal process. That makes no sense.

Agreed that they don't have to withdraw during appeals but the appeals process will certainly be done before RD admission decisions are released in March/April. Also, worth noting for others: EA/RD are limited in terms of where you can apply. Other privates are off the table if you apply ED.

I agree that the financial aid appeal process will be done long before RD admission decisions are released.

However, to clarify, the last part of your post is incorrect: nothing about ED prevents applying to other privates EA. (Perhaps you are confusing ED with Restrictive Early Action, in which case it is the REA rules that would prevent applying ED elsewhere.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do so many posters think this? In my kid’s friends group, everyone doing ED at a selective school is looking for financial aid. The thought process is that (1) ED typically has higher admit rates and (2) you can withdraw if you don’t like the package.

Are people implying need blind schools reject FA kids at higher rates during ED? Or do they not realize ED agreements allowing you to back out of the school can met a family’s need?

You can be either comfortably full pay or know that you will get a near full ride at a need blind school. For any one in between where merit is necessary or where price matters, ED is out.

This bums me out.... we're right on the cusp where we won't qualify for need based aid but really can't shell out full tuition. We're hoping for merit aid (or state school). That's fine, except more and more I'm hearing that ED gives an edge in the process. So nowadays, it feels like my kid will be at a real disadvantage having to go RD at all schools. Is that right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why this is so hard. You can do the net price calculator and figure out if you can swing the expected family contribution. If you can't, don't ED. If the kid still wants to ED, then you take a chance and go all in. If they end up with merit scholarships, that's icing! The student can also apply for external scholarship money. But I think there are clear expectations with the ED process.

BINGO!!! It's really not that difficult.

I think the issue is that people who cannot afford their EFC (as defined by fafsa) are annoyed that they do not get the "advantage" of ED. Yeah, it's "not fair", but so are many things in life. The ED advantage even at elite schools is still minimal---many of the ED slots go to athletes, legacy, hooked students who would have gotten in via EA/RD as well. When EA/RD rate is 6% and ED is 25%, it's not really that once you take out those listed above. It's more 12% vs 6%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - I think what’s missing is that these kids aren’t looking to compare FA offers. They want to know what their top choice school is offering and move on if it’s not enough.

For my daughter, she spoke specifically to the FA office at each of the schools she was considering for ED. She asked specifically if the school did not give her enough aid (as determined by her), whether she could withdraw from the ED agreement. All 3 said that was correct, but asked that if that happened, she should come back to them and appeal the FA so that could take a second look at the package before she withdrew.

Anyway, I just see this repeated a lot, but at least among my kid’s friend group, they are definitely all seeking aid.

But often I hear that an appeal won't be back until after RD deadlines are passed. Also, once a kid withdraws, that ED offer is gone. Say she manages to successfully withdraw and get her RD applications in. She doesn't get to come back to the ED offer if the RD offers are not to her liking.

Yes, that is true in many cases. The whole point of ED is one only applies if it's their top school, they have no doubts about wanting to attend if admitted, and they can afford it if financial need is met (as defined by fafsa). ED is not for someone who needs to compare FA offers from multiple schools---that is what EA/RD is for. ED is for someone ready to commit to the school. So yes, it sucks but if you need to compare FA offers from multiple schools ED may not be for you. Just like if in Oct your kid is not 100% certain which school they want, then ED is not for you.

Clarification: need is not defined by FAFSA. It is defined by the college's Net Price Calculator. Most private colleges offering generous need-based aid will require more information than simply the FAFSA (such as the CSS Profile or a school-specific financial aid form asking about assets) and relying in FAFSA alone as an estimate of EFC is a big mistake. This is a very important point; many families are unaware and rely on the FAFSA EFC to their detriment, not realizing they need to use the specific college Net Price Calculators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - I think what’s missing is that these kids aren’t looking to compare FA offers. They want to know what their top choice school is offering and move on if it’s not enough.

For my daughter, she spoke specifically to the FA office at each of the schools she was considering for ED. She asked specifically if the school did not give her enough aid (as determined by her), whether she could withdraw from the ED agreement. All 3 said that was correct, but asked that if that happened, she should come back to them and appeal the FA so that could take a second look at the package before she withdrew.

Anyway, I just see this repeated a lot, but at least among my kid’s friend group, they are definitely all seeking aid.

Is enough aid based on the school's own tuition calculator? Or just her family saying I think 5K a year would be comfortable for us?

OP here. No, the conversation was actually pretty detailed. My kid said my EFC is X and I can afford Y per year, which is a difference of Z. I can swing that but if my actual aid is offer is different I may not be ok. What are my options. The response was you can back out under those circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do so many posters think this? In my kid’s friends group, everyone doing ED at a selective school is looking for financial aid. The thought process is that (1) ED typically has higher admit rates and (2) you can withdraw if you don’t like the package.

Are people implying need blind schools reject FA kids at higher rates during ED? Or do they not realize ED agreements allowing you to back out of the school can met a family’s need?

You can be either comfortably full pay or know that you will get a near full ride at a need blind school. For any one in between where merit is necessary or where price matters, ED is out.

This bums me out.... we're right on the cusp where we won't qualify for need based aid but really can't shell out full tuition. We're hoping for merit aid (or state school). That's fine, except more and more I'm hearing that ED gives an edge in the process. So nowadays, it feels like my kid will be at a real disadvantage having to go RD at all schools. Is that right?

We’re a donut hole family. Both my kids had strong preferences and both applied and got in ED. One to Oberlin, which did do a merit pre-read. It’s been tight, but we have made it work. Oberlin is interesting because the have a very high percentage of UMC kids from good public schools, compared to many other SLACs. They work well with donut hole families.

The other went to WM, where we pay $17,000 a year tuition, rather than almost $24,000+, because we have 8 semesters of VA prepaid 529s, so VT/JMU/UVA/WM all cost us the same tuition.

Our Obie would have almost certainly gotten in RD. But, he knew what he wanted. Our WM kid was very borderline and needed the ED bump (and demonstrated interest bump). She was not highly competitive for the ED pool.

Nobody is graduating with debt. WM kid closes us $20k less a year and will graduate with $80k+ for grad school.

If you are in a donut hole, you can’t pay for colleges with no merit— whether you apply ED or RD. For schools that gopive significant merit, you can request a merit pre-read. Worse case, they say no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very few schools are completely need blind.

+1

Also, ED is not an option for those who need merit aid to attend, i.e. those who neither qualify for need-based aid nor can pay full freight.

Merit aid families often have the money to pay, at least for a state school but the parents choose to spend their money in other ways expecting help for college. It's pretty shocking ot see families making $250+ having such high expectations for aid. Schools should base it on need.

Agreed. If you have been making 250K for a few years, you likely had the means to save. The fact you chose to spend elsewhere is not someone else's issue. We started saving as soon as kids were born, as we knew we would never get any need based aid (2 engineers). We saved rather than taking fancy vacations, we made coffee at home rather than getting Starbucks....saving an extra $100-200/month easily with just the coffee and eating out. Put it to work for 15-18 years along with additional targeted savings and we are well positioned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very few schools are completely need blind.

+1

Also, ED is not an option for those who need merit aid to attend, i.e. those who neither qualify for need-based aid nor can pay full freight.

Not true. Many schools will give you a merit pre-read prior to applying for early decision. You just have to provide unofficial transcripts and ECs. We did this a couple months ago at a T50 school.

Some schools (e.g. Oberlin) will do this, most will not. WashU and URochester for example tell people in their admissions info sessions that if they need merit money to attend, they should not apply ED.

This is not discriminatory ... why?

How would it be discriminatory?!?!? no school is required to give you merit or need based aide. You get to choose where you attend, they get to choose who they admit and how much (if any) merit or FA they provide. If you need aide, then seek out schools that provide it. Yes, it sucks that most T40-50 don't provide significant merit, but that is their prerogative. You can choose to go elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do so many posters think this? In my kid’s friends group, everyone doing ED at a selective school is looking for financial aid. The thought process is that (1) ED typically has higher admit rates and (2) you can withdraw if you don’t like the package.

Are people implying need blind schools reject FA kids at higher rates during ED? Or do they not realize ED agreements allowing you to back out of the school can met a family’s need?

Because merit scholarships to those that don't qualify for need-based aid are a thing - and useful for comparing schools. Thus a student may have no "demonstrated need" according to FAFSA but would prefer not to spend $80K a year or whatever list price is for a school.

Your choice obviously, but then ED may not be the right choice for you.

[Anonymous]

We ran the NPC before allowing DC to apply. It estimated we would get $27K in aid. DC got in and we got $25K. It wasn't a perfect science, but it worked well enough and DC can afford to attend the school. Not sure why people think this -- absolutely not true!

[Anonymous]

To donut families, talk to the schools and see the rules. If they don’t do a pre read, see what rules are if package doesn’t come in. I think you are allowed to go elsewhere RD. You should not give up the ED advantage. To the pp who says it’s more like 12 percent admit rate vs 6 percent - that’s double the chance.

We will be full pay when the time comes but still find ED advantage for families like mine unfair. People should do everything within the rules to benefit from this opportunity if they can/makes sense for their kid .

[Anonymous]

Both can be true.

You don't have to be full pay to apply ED and get in.

ED is to lock down full-pay students. It makes business sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lots of people need merit aid.
Not of schools aren’t giving need-based aid that fills the hole — and not just relevant for those who didn’t save enough. There is a thing as the missing middle that is a big issue in college apps.
These kids are disadvantaged enough in the process. And often skipping ED is just another disadvantage. We should make it easier for these kids -not harder.

There are PLENTY of colleges that give merit aide....just not T50 schools. So find a great school with admission rates over 30-40% where your kid's stats are at/above 75percentile and apply to several of those. Your kid will get great merit and attend an affordable to you college. My own kid attended a T80 school with 33% tuition merit/year. Total cost to us was only $40K, not $60K each year. And we didn't need/were not searching for merit. This was at a school with 70% acceptance rate and my kid was at ~50% for scores/gpa. My kid also had a school acceptance of a T120 where they got 70% tuition because they were at 85% for scores/gpa so total cost would have been ~$28K/year. These are both schools majority of people have heard of---both great schools, both private. We got all of that without even really trying (we are full pay and can afford the elite schools so $ not an issue). Had we attempted to find merit we likely could have found a place that gave a full ride. This is for a kid who took 1 AP senior year (and had a D in it first semester),3.5 UW gpa and 26 ACT. There were still plenty of much "smarter" kids/intellectual stimulation for my kid at college. So yes, if you have not planned and saved, then the "elite" high priced schools may not be in your range, but there are still plenty of excellent places you can seek out merit if you need it.