Puglia, Italy = pretty rough

[Anonymous]

On the air quality -- some types of pollution are worse in cold weather. Plus of course the wood burning stoves weren't going in summer. So the people that visited in spring or summer may really have had different experiences with air quality.
I remember going to Santiago, Chile in August, and the smog was pretty bad -- could not see the mountains some days. But i varies through the year by a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen some discussion on this board in recent months suggesting Puglia, Italy as a good region to visit.

Let me put that suggestion to rest.

Having visited dozens of countries (including many developing ones), never before have I seen a filthier, smellier, nastier region in my entire life. It’s like the entire society has no respect for any sort of common good. Trash literally dumped everywhere, both by the roadside and in the middle of towns. The air was putrid, both from industrial factories and locals apparently burning wood to stay warm amidst high electricity prices. Entire towns that appear to never have had a single building painted or pressure washed in the last 25 years.

All of this would be fine, I guess, if the locals were nice. But they’re not. Some of the rudest people I have ever encountered in my life, with dollar signs in their eyes, looking to cheat you at every turn in a million different ways. Items added to the bill. Restaurants charging “updated prices” not reflected in the menus. Horribly filthy accommodations and hotels. And on and on.

What is it about southern Italy that is so disgusting? Is it just the rampant corruption? And how is Puglia appearing on every tourist website? Is it just some sort of marketing machine?

Anyway, hope this helps someone looking to plan their next Italian holiday.

+1

Italians don't trust Sicilians. At all.

That’s a weird comment. No one was talking about Sicily. Puglia is not in Sicily.

Same goes for Southern Italians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everything OP wrote about Puglia could be said about Sicily. The trash everywhere is disgusting. If you stay in a luxury resort you won't remark the problem. But if you are traveling around and are visiting less touristy areas the trash is everywhere. I have visited townships in Namibia and people there are more competent to keep the evironment clean than people in southern Italy.

I live in Sicily now. It's because the mafia controls garbage collection. Southern Italians voted in large numbers for Giorgia Meloni, but she did affirm her support for Ukraine, so at least there's that.

I do think speaking Italian makes a huge difference. I am conversant in conversational Italian and my experiences are much better than some other Americans here. That being said, Sicilians are incredibly warm and helpful in general.

Also, Amalfi is in the south as well. Campania is southern Italy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On the air quality -- some types of pollution are worse in cold weather. Plus of course the wood burning stoves weren't going in summer. So the people that visited in spring or summer may really have had different experiences with air quality.
I remember going to Santiago, Chile in August, and the smog was pretty bad -- could not see the mountains some days. But i varies through the year by a lot.

PP in Sicily. This is true. Winter air quality is much worse. In the north near Verona, it is often worse than Beijing in the winter. Some days I can barely see Mt. Etna and I live 20 miles away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the air quality -- some types of pollution are worse in cold weather. Plus of course the wood burning stoves weren't going in summer. So the people that visited in spring or summer may really have had different experiences with air quality.
I remember going to Santiago, Chile in August, and the smog was pretty bad -- could not see the mountains some days. But i varies through the year by a lot.

PP in Sicily. This is true. Winter air quality is much worse. In the north near Verona, it is often worse than Beijing in the winter. Some days I can barely see Mt. Etna and I live 20 miles away.

I would love it if you did an AMA. I have always wondered about living in Sicily as an expat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not denying southern Italy has some poor parts but no one visiting towns on the tourist itinerary in Puglia, at least in warm months, is going to be dealing with uncomfortable poverty.

I mean Matera was basically the shame of Italy 50 years ago and now it’s a tourist hot spot with a James Bond movie (not technically in Puglia of course).

OP here. Right, Matera is in neighboring Basilicata, but basically the same vibe. Anyway, I have no doubt a summer experience at the coast might be better then what we experienced in winter, but then again it would be very crowded in summer (not necessarily with Americans, but Europeans from literally every corner of the continent fly budget airlines to Bari and Brindisi in the summer). We have been to many Balkan countries (Albania, Croatia, Bosnia, Greece), North Africa, Central America, etc, and never have encountered the negative combination we found in Puglia and Basilicata. The trash, the unkempt towns, the massive potholes, the unfriendly people looking to steal from you, it all just made it not worth it. Prior to visiting Puglia, we spent several weeks in rural France, and were in rural Eastern Europe before that. Nothing compares with the hassles we experienced in southern Italy. I think even the locals admit that the corruption there is so rampant and endemic that it infects the entire society, and that certainly was our experience. I doubt Puglia will be a major destination for Americans anytime soon, but just thought I would mention as I have seen it discussed in these boards recently.

Where would you suggest in Italy or France? We like not crowded places. For e.g. we loved Tavira in Portugal

OP here. For France, the options are endless. The Dordogne and Bordeaux are nice. Burgundy (Dijon, Beaune) is another option. Of course there’s Provence and Côte d’Azur. Brittany up north is very nice (Dinan, Vannes, St Malo). Normandy and Rouen closer to Paris, as well as Reims in the Champagne region. Strasbourg in Alsace and Metz in Lorraine are great. It’s a fantastic country.

I am much less helpful on Italy, obviously. I went to Puglia and Basilicata hoping to find an off the beaten path region, and look what happened. I did enjoy Trieste on one occasion, and it sounds like Abruzzo is worth checking out. As I mentioned, San Marino is lovely (although another country). After this debacle, I don’t see myself making it to Calabria .

^^PS, if you want Spain recommendations, I can help with that too. Thankfully Spain is not Italy (friendly people, terrific roads, clean towns and cities).

[Anonymous]

Thank you for this post it's very helpful. I'm curious if you have been to India?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for this post it's very helpful. I'm curious if you have been to India?

OP here. Yes, I have. Loved it (the people, culture, welcome, food, sites, etc). All incredible. Obviously India poses a lot of challenges and was exhausting in many ways, but again, it’s a developing nation with limited resources and immense challenges. That’s not the case for southern Italy, which has long had the benefits of EU resources and funding, yet in many ways is far behind more recent EU entrants who spent decades behind the Iron Curtain. The place is a true disgrace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not denying southern Italy has some poor parts but no one visiting towns on the tourist itinerary in Puglia, at least in warm months, is going to be dealing with uncomfortable poverty.

I mean Matera was basically the shame of Italy 50 years ago and now it’s a tourist hot spot with a James Bond movie (not technically in Puglia of course).

OP here. Right, Matera is in neighboring Basilicata, but basically the same vibe. Anyway, I have no doubt a summer experience at the coast might be better then what we experienced in winter, but then again it would be very crowded in summer (not necessarily with Americans, but Europeans from literally every corner of the continent fly budget airlines to Bari and Brindisi in the summer). We have been to many Balkan countries (Albania, Croatia, Bosnia, Greece), North Africa, Central America, etc, and never have encountered the negative combination we found in Puglia and Basilicata. The trash, the unkempt towns, the massive potholes, the unfriendly people looking to steal from you, it all just made it not worth it. Prior to visiting Puglia, we spent several weeks in rural France, and were in rural Eastern Europe before that. Nothing compares with the hassles we experienced in southern Italy. I think even the locals admit that the corruption there is so rampant and endemic that it infects the entire society, and that certainly was our experience. I doubt Puglia will be a major destination for Americans anytime soon, but just thought I would mention as I have seen it discussed in these boards recently.

Where would you suggest in Italy or France? We like not crowded places. For e.g. we loved Tavira in Portugal

OP here. For France, the options are endless. The Dordogne and Bordeaux are nice. Burgundy (Dijon, Beaune) is another option. Of course there’s Provence and Côte d’Azur. Brittany up north is very nice (Dinan, Vannes, St Malo). Normandy and Rouen closer to Paris, as well as Reims in the Champagne region. Strasbourg in Alsace and Metz in Lorraine are great. It’s a fantastic country.

I am much less helpful on Italy, obviously. I went to Puglia and Basilicata hoping to find an off the beaten path region, and look what happened. I did enjoy Trieste on one occasion, and it sounds like Abruzzo is worth checking out. As I mentioned, San Marino is lovely (although another country). After this debacle, I don’t see myself making it to Calabria .

^^PS, if you want Spain recommendations, I can help with that too. Thankfully Spain is not Italy (friendly people, terrific roads, clean towns and cities).

Can we have your Spain recommendations?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not denying southern Italy has some poor parts but no one visiting towns on the tourist itinerary in Puglia, at least in warm months, is going to be dealing with uncomfortable poverty.

I mean Matera was basically the shame of Italy 50 years ago and now it’s a tourist hot spot with a James Bond movie (not technically in Puglia of course).

OP here. Right, Matera is in neighboring Basilicata, but basically the same vibe. Anyway, I have no doubt a summer experience at the coast might be better then what we experienced in winter, but then again it would be very crowded in summer (not necessarily with Americans, but Europeans from literally every corner of the continent fly budget airlines to Bari and Brindisi in the summer). We have been to many Balkan countries (Albania, Croatia, Bosnia, Greece), North Africa, Central America, etc, and never have encountered the negative combination we found in Puglia and Basilicata. The trash, the unkempt towns, the massive potholes, the unfriendly people looking to steal from you, it all just made it not worth it. Prior to visiting Puglia, we spent several weeks in rural France, and were in rural Eastern Europe before that. Nothing compares with the hassles we experienced in southern Italy. I think even the locals admit that the corruption there is so rampant and endemic that it infects the entire society, and that certainly was our experience. I doubt Puglia will be a major destination for Americans anytime soon, but just thought I would mention as I have seen it discussed in these boards recently.

Where would you suggest in Italy or France? We like not crowded places. For e.g. we loved Tavira in Portugal

OP here. For France, the options are endless. The Dordogne and Bordeaux are nice. Burgundy (Dijon, Beaune) is another option. Of course there’s Provence and Côte d’Azur. Brittany up north is very nice (Dinan, Vannes, St Malo). Normandy and Rouen closer to Paris, as well as Reims in the Champagne region. Strasbourg in Alsace and Metz in Lorraine are great. It’s a fantastic country.

I am much less helpful on Italy, obviously. I went to Puglia and Basilicata hoping to find an off the beaten path region, and look what happened. I did enjoy Trieste on one occasion, and it sounds like Abruzzo is worth checking out. As I mentioned, San Marino is lovely (although another country). After this debacle, I don’t see myself making it to Calabria .

^^PS, if you want Spain recommendations, I can help with that too. Thankfully Spain is not Italy (friendly people, terrific roads, clean towns and cities).

Can we have your Spain recommendations?

OP here. Sure. Some spots we have enjoyed over the years near Madrid include Alcalá de Henares, Aranjuez, and Chinchón. Asturias and Cantabria are great up north, including Oviedo, Santillana del Mar, Santander. In Galicia, Ourense is fantastic. La Rioja obviously for visiting the wineries around Haro and surrounding areas. If you like off the beaten bath, you could try Extremadura and towns/cities like Trujillo, Guadalupe, Caceres, and Mérida which isn’t very pretty but has incredible Roman ruins. In Catalunya, El Vendrell, Sitges and Tarragona are worth visits. Plenty of others of course, but we have enjoyed each of these places, and it really helps to get off the normal tourist circuit (like Toledo, Ávila, Segovia, Sevilla, Granada, Barcelona, San Sebastián, Santiago de Compostela, etc., not that those places are not worth visiting of course, but you probably know those already).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Southern Italy is more earthy, northern Italy is the traditionally rich part of the country, no? You sound like someone who should stick to the north of Italy only.

Yes, even Tuscany is too South for me.

[Anonymous]

Thinly veiled hostility or fake niceness is endemic to many parts of Italy, and not just to the stereotypical ugly Americans, either. I prefer sullen indifference to a serving of contempt and smiles that are painfully plastered on.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like SF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not denying southern Italy has some poor parts but no one visiting towns on the tourist itinerary in Puglia, at least in warm months, is going to be dealing with uncomfortable poverty.

I mean Matera was basically the shame of Italy 50 years ago and now it’s a tourist hot spot with a James Bond movie (not technically in Puglia of course).

OP here. Right, Matera is in neighboring Basilicata, but basically the same vibe. Anyway, I have no doubt a summer experience at the coast might be better then what we experienced in winter, but then again it would be very crowded in summer (not necessarily with Americans, but Europeans from literally every corner of the continent fly budget airlines to Bari and Brindisi in the summer). We have been to many Balkan countries (Albania, Croatia, Bosnia, Greece), North Africa, Central America, etc, and never have encountered the negative combination we found in Puglia and Basilicata. The trash, the unkempt towns, the massive potholes, the unfriendly people looking to steal from you, it all just made it not worth it. Prior to visiting Puglia, we spent several weeks in rural France, and were in rural Eastern Europe before that. Nothing compares with the hassles we experienced in southern Italy. I think even the locals admit that the corruption there is so rampant and endemic that it infects the entire society, and that certainly was our experience. I doubt Puglia will be a major destination for Americans anytime soon, but just thought I would mention as I have seen it discussed in these boards recently.

Where would you suggest in Italy or France? We like not crowded places. For e.g. we loved Tavira in Portugal

OP here. For France, the options are endless. The Dordogne and Bordeaux are nice. Burgundy (Dijon, Beaune) is another option. Of course there’s Provence and Côte d’Azur. Brittany up north is very nice (Dinan, Vannes, St Malo). Normandy and Rouen closer to Paris, as well as Reims in the Champagne region. Strasbourg in Alsace and Metz in Lorraine are great. It’s a fantastic country.

I am much less helpful on Italy, obviously. I went to Puglia and Basilicata hoping to find an off the beaten path region, and look what happened. I did enjoy Trieste on one occasion, and it sounds like Abruzzo is worth checking out. As I mentioned, San Marino is lovely (although another country). After this debacle, I don’t see myself making it to Calabria .

^^PS, if you want Spain recommendations, I can help with that too. Thankfully Spain is not Italy (friendly people, terrific roads, clean towns and cities).

Spaniards are definitely not friendly.

[Anonymous]

How are Naples and the area around Pompeii?