Puglia, Italy = pretty rough

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have seen some discussion on this board in recent months suggesting Puglia, Italy as a good region to visit.

Let me put that suggestion to rest.

Having visited dozens of countries (including many developing ones), never before have I seen a filthier, smellier, nastier region in my entire life. It’s like the entire society has no respect for any sort of common good. Trash literally dumped everywhere, both by the roadside and in the middle of towns. The air was putrid, both from industrial factories and locals apparently burning wood to stay warm amidst high electricity prices. Entire towns that appear to never have had a single building painted or pressure washed in the last 25 years.

All of this would be fine, I guess, if the locals were nice. But they’re not. Some of the rudest people I have ever encountered in my life, with dollar signs in their eyes, looking to cheat you at every turn in a million different ways. Items added to the bill. Restaurants charging “updated prices” not reflected in the menus. Horribly filthy accommodations and hotels. And on and on.

What is it about southern Italy that is so disgusting? Is it just the rampant corruption? And how is Puglia appearing on every tourist website? Is it just some sort of marketing machine?

Anyway, hope this helps someone looking to plan their next Italian holiday.

+1

Italians don't trust Sicilians. At all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not denying southern Italy has some poor parts but no one visiting towns on the tourist itinerary in Puglia, at least in warm months, is going to be dealing with uncomfortable poverty.

I mean Matera was basically the shame of Italy 50 years ago and now it’s a tourist hot spot with a James Bond movie (not technically in Puglia of course).

OP here. Right, Matera is in neighboring Basilicata, but basically the same vibe. Anyway, I have no doubt a summer experience at the coast might be better then what we experienced in winter, but then again it would be very crowded in summer (not necessarily with Americans, but Europeans from literally every corner of the continent fly budget airlines to Bari and Brindisi in the summer). We have been to many Balkan countries (Albania, Croatia, Bosnia, Greece), North Africa, Central America, etc, and never have encountered the negative combination we found in Puglia and Basilicata. The trash, the unkempt towns, the massive potholes, the unfriendly people looking to steal from you, it all just made it not worth it. Prior to visiting Puglia, we spent several weeks in rural France, and were in rural Eastern Europe before that. Nothing compares with the hassles we experienced in southern Italy. I think even the locals admit that the corruption there is so rampant and endemic that it infects the entire society, and that certainly was our experience. I doubt Puglia will be a major destination for Americans anytime soon, but just thought I would mention as I have seen it discussed in these boards recently.

^^OP again. Just to add, we no Italy experts, but have been to a few parts of the country (Rome, Milan, Tuscany, Amalfi, Trieste), and never have encountered what we found in the south.

Where do you go OP? We spent most of September in Puglia and had the exact opposite experience. Drove all over the region and met the most wonderful people, stayed in amazing Masserie, had incredible food and have the exact opposite experience that you had. All four of my grandparents and my father were from Italy and I've been travelling there since I was a small child. I'll admit that my family (from Emilia Romagna and Veneto) were northern Italian snobs, and I didn't start travelling to southern Italy until I was an adult over the past 15 years. Southern Italy has so much to offer and regions like Puglia and Abruzzo are simply wonderful. Puglia is currently the "it" region in Italy so I think most people disagree with you. I'd like to keep Abruzzo hidden as it is the most best-kept secret in Italy. But sooner or later it will be discovered by non-Italians.

I encourage people to travel there and see for themselves. September and October are glorious months to be in southern Italy.

Maybe if you look and speak Italian you will have a different experience, I don’t know. There were pockets of warmness (especially from women), but a lot of hostility (mostly from men). And the infrastructure, towns, and air quality was simply disgusting by developing world standards, let alone for an EU nation in Western Europe. Honestly, I don’t know how they get away with it other than that the Italian government, let alone the EU, apparently has very little control there. So yes, there may be some lovely spots and people, but this is one of the very, very few times in my traveling life that the bad just so vastly exceeded any good. And life is too short for that.

[Anonymous]

Southern Italy is more earthy, northern Italy is the traditionally rich part of the country, no? You sound like someone who should stick to the north of Italy only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Southern Italy is more earthy, northern Italy is the traditionally rich part of the country, no? You sound like someone who should stick to the north of Italy only.

snort..that's one way of putting it.

[Anonymous]

I am sorry you had a bad trip but it doesn’t reflect my experiences there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen some discussion on this board in recent months suggesting Puglia, Italy as a good region to visit.

Let me put that suggestion to rest.

Having visited dozens of countries (including many developing ones), never before have I seen a filthier, smellier, nastier region in my entire life. It’s like the entire society has no respect for any sort of common good. Trash literally dumped everywhere, both by the roadside and in the middle of towns. The air was putrid, both from industrial factories and locals apparently burning wood to stay warm amidst high electricity prices. Entire towns that appear to never have had a single building painted or pressure washed in the last 25 years.

All of this would be fine, I guess, if the locals were nice. But they’re not. Some of the rudest people I have ever encountered in my life, with dollar signs in their eyes, looking to cheat you at every turn in a million different ways. Items added to the bill. Restaurants charging “updated prices” not reflected in the menus. Horribly filthy accommodations and hotels. And on and on.

What is it about southern Italy that is so disgusting? Is it just the rampant corruption? And how is Puglia appearing on every tourist website? Is it just some sort of marketing machine?

Anyway, hope this helps someone looking to plan their next Italian holiday.

+1

Italians don't trust Sicilians. At all.

That’s a weird comment. No one was talking about Sicily. Puglia is not in Sicily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not denying southern Italy has some poor parts but no one visiting towns on the tourist itinerary in Puglia, at least in warm months, is going to be dealing with uncomfortable poverty.

I mean Matera was basically the shame of Italy 50 years ago and now it’s a tourist hot spot with a James Bond movie (not technically in Puglia of course).

OP here. Right, Matera is in neighboring Basilicata, but basically the same vibe. Anyway, I have no doubt a summer experience at the coast might be better then what we experienced in winter, but then again it would be very crowded in summer (not necessarily with Americans, but Europeans from literally every corner of the continent fly budget airlines to Bari and Brindisi in the summer). We have been to many Balkan countries (Albania, Croatia, Bosnia, Greece), North Africa, Central America, etc, and never have encountered the negative combination we found in Puglia and Basilicata. The trash, the unkempt towns, the massive potholes, the unfriendly people looking to steal from you, it all just made it not worth it. Prior to visiting Puglia, we spent several weeks in rural France, and were in rural Eastern Europe before that. Nothing compares with the hassles we experienced in southern Italy. I think even the locals admit that the corruption there is so rampant and endemic that it infects the entire society, and that certainly was our experience. I doubt Puglia will be a major destination for Americans anytime soon, but just thought I would mention as I have seen it discussed in these boards recently.

^^OP again. Just to add, we no Italy experts, but have been to a few parts of the country (Rome, Milan, Tuscany, Amalfi, Trieste), and never have encountered what we found in the south.

Where do you go OP? We spent most of September in Puglia and had the exact opposite experience. Drove all over the region and met the most wonderful people, stayed in amazing Masserie, had incredible food and have the exact opposite experience that you had. All four of my grandparents and my father were from Italy and I've been travelling there since I was a small child. I'll admit that my family (from Emilia Romagna and Veneto) were northern Italian snobs, and I didn't start travelling to southern Italy until I was an adult over the past 15 years. Southern Italy has so much to offer and regions like Puglia and Abruzzo are simply wonderful. Puglia is currently the "it" region in Italy so I think most people disagree with you. I'd like to keep Abruzzo hidden as it is the most best-kept secret in Italy. But sooner or later it will be discovered by non-Italians.

I encourage people to travel there and see for themselves. September and October are glorious months to be in southern Italy.

Maybe if you look and speak Italian you will have a different experience, I don’t know. There were pockets of warmness (especially from women), but a lot of hostility (mostly from men). And the infrastructure, towns, and air quality was simply disgusting by developing world standards, let alone for an EU nation in Western Europe. Honestly, I don’t know how they get away with it other than that the Italian government, let alone the EU, apparently has very little control there. So yes, there may be some lovely spots and people, but this is one of the very, very few times in my traveling life that the bad just so vastly exceeded any good. And life is too short for that.

DP. I’m sorry you had this experience, OP, but my visit to Puglia (2017, so admittedly pre-Covid) was nothing like this, and I am also pretty well traveled - including in the developing world. A bit rustic, yes, but not at all “disgusting”. Where exactly did you go?

[Anonymous]

We are Americans living in Italy and have been all up and down this country. We go to Puglia regularly for our beach vacations. It is a beautiful place where we have had only positive experiences. I’m sorry you had a negative one, OP. I think it does help in our case we speak Italian and I can spot the tourist traps a mile away. I hope this thread doesn’t discourage others from visiting. But to the PP who mentioned Abruzzo, shhhhhh don’t get give away the best kept secret in this country.

[Anonymous]

Both can be true, right? I was personally shocked the first time I went to S Italy, mostly because I wasn’t expecting the filth and unfriendliness in an EU country. But it compares with some sub Saharan African countries I’ve been to. At the same time, the coast and landscape is gorgeous and I’m glad they are getting dollars in those communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Southern Italy is more earthy, northern Italy is the traditionally rich part of the country, no? You sound like someone who should stick to the north of Italy only.

It’s not an “earthiness” issue, I’m afraid. I’m fine with “earthy.” We have enjoyed many wonderful “earthy” vacations to places like Albania, Bosnia, Ecuador, Lebanon, Morocco, Nicaragua, Tunisia, Zambia, you name it. I wish it was just “earthy.”

My impression of Puglia/Basilicata is that there are two types of towns. The ridiculously touristy ones like Lecce, Matera, Monopoli, Ostuni, and many others where the people are ready and fully expecting to rip you off, as if it’s their birthright. Then there are the non or much less touristy places, like Altamura, Irsina, and countless other “regular” places where the people are not necessarily looking or expecting to see you, but if a foreigner and the opportunity presents itself, they will readily do so. It’s just incredible, especially in a Western EU country. So you either get fake “niceness” (which they really can’t even hide very well) in the tourist towns, or the unwelcoming hostility in what I would term the more “authentic” places. That’s a combination I just haven’t seen anywhere else.

And sorry, but it is disgusting. Trash everywhere. Putrid air. Hideous decaying buildings. To think Italy has been a Western EU country for decades and still has a sizable portion of its country in that state is an absolute disgrace. For comparison, we recently traveled through rural Croatia, Hungary, and Slovakia, all countries that faced Communism in our lifetimes and joined the EU well after Italy. And those countries are all up and coming (although still “earthy” to use your term). There really is no excuse for Italy, other than corruption, incompetence, and mismanagement. They do not deserve a pass on any of that.

Anyway, it’s no big deal, as this was just part of a larger trip.

[Anonymous]

I didn’t have that experience either but now that I think about it I let my traveling companion do all the talking because he speaks more Italian, and his accent is plainly Eastern European so maybe they thought we were too poor to bother ripping off, idk.

[Anonymous]

I have been to Puglia twice in the past decade, including last summer. I could not disagree more with OP. My family encountered friendly locals, beautiful towns, beaches etc. I am the first one to notice trash issues and this did not stick out to me at all. The trash and smells of NYC is 10x worse.
Always felt safe and never got ripped off. Prices are fair and food quality superb. Only one somewhat disappointing meal.
The city that was depressing for me was Milano. We stopped for a few days and I was utterly shocked by the graffiti all over the city. Building after building in the nicer parts of town had graffiti everywhere. That’s a tough city.

[Anonymous]

We did a family trip there over Christmas 2019 (so it was pre-COVID), and had the most amazing time! Everything was beautifully decorated for the holidays, the people couldn’t have been nicer, and it was easy to arrange wonderful tours/tastings/meals for reasonable prices. I speak some Italian — but terribly — so I don’t think we got any special treatment because of that. Sorry you had such a negative experience!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been to Puglia twice in the past decade, including last summer. I could not disagree more with OP. My family encountered friendly locals, beautiful towns, beaches etc. I am the first one to notice trash issues and this did not stick out to me at all. The trash and smells of NYC is 10x worse.
Always felt safe and never got ripped off. Prices are fair and food quality superb. Only one somewhat disappointing meal.
The city that was depressing for me was Milano. We stopped for a few days and I was utterly shocked by the graffiti all over the city. Building after building in the nicer parts of town had graffiti everywhere. That’s a tough city.

OP here. Interesting, thanks for sharing. Maybe COVID has been really rough on the place and the people, I don’t know. As I mentioned, one of the really awful things we experienced (although admittedly also in other parts of Italy this month) was the horrible air quality. Some of it seemed to be coming from industrial facilities (and I have seen online that air quality in Taranto for example is 10 times EU pollution standards), but also seemingly from locals burning wood to stay warm. I think that’s a symptom of the higher electricity prices and general energy crisis, but not something we have seen recently in any other European country. It made for a general haze and was hard on the lungs. And probably is making things dirtier too. And the general economic climate is probably not making the locals too happy, and perhaps leading to some more unsavory behaviors. Anyway, I’m glad others have enjoyed in the past, but just our very recent observations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been to Puglia twice in the past decade, including last summer. I could not disagree more with OP. My family encountered friendly locals, beautiful towns, beaches etc. I am the first one to notice trash issues and this did not stick out to me at all. The trash and smells of NYC is 10x worse.
Always felt safe and never got ripped off. Prices are fair and food quality superb. Only one somewhat disappointing meal.
The city that was depressing for me was Milano. We stopped for a few days and I was utterly shocked by the graffiti all over the city. Building after building in the nicer parts of town had graffiti everywhere. That’s a tough city.

OP here. Interesting, thanks for sharing. Maybe COVID has been really rough on the place and the people, I don’t know. As I mentioned, one of the really awful things we experienced (although admittedly also in other parts of Italy this month) was the horrible air quality. Some of it seemed to be coming from industrial facilities (and I have seen online that air quality in Taranto for example is 10 times EU pollution standards), but also seemingly from locals burning wood to stay warm. I think that’s a symptom of the higher electricity prices and general energy crisis, but not something we have seen recently in any other European country. It made for a general haze and was hard on the lungs. And probably is making things dirtier too. And the general economic climate is probably not making the locals too happy, and perhaps leading to some more unsavory behaviors. Anyway, I’m glad others have enjoyed in the past, but just our very recent observations.

PS, just to add to the above, one waiter actually said in a mocking voice “good luck with your war,” referring bizarrely to the Ukraine conflict. So it seems there could be some latent anger and hostility about that conflict and the economic impact it is having on locals. Obviously each European country has different subsidies and assistance, so maybe Italians are bearing the brunt more than others. It seems that some Europeans (and certainly not only the Italians, as the Germans also implied the same) are angry about Ukraine becoming some sort of US-Russia proxy war.