Daydreaming of leaving the rat race/moving to Europe

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, you could work on making that come true. But keep in mind that you'll always be an outsider.

You could also simply try to live that life here. Nothing requires you to live the rat race here. Downsize your lifestyle.

Not OP but one of the reasons this is appealing to me is that I've felt like an outsider my entire life so that aspect about moving abroad doesn't sound that hard to me. I grew up in a place where I was an outlier and while I didn't have a terrible childhood, I never totally felt I belonged. And as an adult I've learned that this means I'll probably never truly belong anywhere, because wherever I go now, I'm still coming there as an adult. I've been in DC for 20 years and have lots of friends and a career and a nice life here, but I still have that sense of being an outsider.

So doing that in a foreign country where I might have a very good quality of life and where the value system matches my own sounds appealing, even if I will always be "the American" there. It's really not much different than the rest of my life and I've found a way to make peace with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, was just talking about this with my neighbor. My choice would be either Ghent or Lille. Lille is really convenient for travel around Europe and is beautiful and very lively. Ghent is a bit more out of the way but it's a very short train to Brussels and from there you can train/plane to so many places very cheaply. Both have a lower cost of living than any of the major cities in Europe but still plenty of amenities and a high quality of life. Ghent in particular is just lovely, with canals and lovely architecture, and it's also very easy to do outdoorsy things outside the city thanks to excellent public transportation infrastructure and a very strong bike culture. You could easily live there without a car and never miss it. Lille is bigger, I think, and probably has more to do plus more diverse cuisine. I really like both places. I'm unsure if you could get by with just French and English in Ghent (it's in the Flemish part of Belgium) so that would be my main reticence about it. Lille of course you would be fine with just French, and to be honest I bet you could move there with just English and pick up enough French to get by pretty quickly, assuming you weren't working somewhere that required fluency.

I think about this all the time.

My family is from Lille. It's a nice city, but grey half the year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in North Arlington and I hear people complain about the rat race and competitiveness, but frankly it has no impact on me at all and I really don't see it. I just live my life and don't worry too much about what other people do or spend. You can change your mindset without changing your geography. If you choose to buy into one upping your neighbors, that's on you. My kids are in APS and I don't really see it with them either.

Maybe though it's because I'm a local who grew up here and so is my DH, and we are grounded in our communities and didn't move to DC to try to make something of ourselves. I don't know, but it makes me sad that people are inflicting this kind of stress on themselves totally unnecessarily.

I agree with the above. Participation in the rat race is optional.

[Anonymous]

I find a lot of Americans have fanciful ideas about living in Europe. It is hard to make real friends unless you’re always with expats and then you have to deal with the fact that expats move away. Culture, religion and food can be quite different. Yes, interest rate on your mortgage may be lower - but then the bank makes you purchase additional products through them. And life can be just as stressful and just as competitive. In some of the countries, with their higher unemployment rate, more competitive. You also end up supporting your kids for more years because they can’t find good paying jobs or are expected to take internship-level jobs into their 30s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find a lot of Americans have fanciful ideas about living in Europe. It is hard to make real friends unless you’re always with expats and then you have to deal with the fact that expats move away. Culture, religion and food can be quite different. Yes, interest rate on your mortgage may be lower - but then the bank makes you purchase additional products through them. And life can be just as stressful and just as competitive. In some of the countries, with their higher unemployment rate, more competitive. You also end up supporting your kids for more years because they can’t find good paying jobs or are expected to take internship-level jobs into their 30s.

+1 a lot of them go for a few weeks and think it's some magic, fantasy place where they can live on 300 euros and find the fulfillment that they sorely lack. They have no grip on reality. - European NP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you could work on making that come true. But keep in mind that you'll always be an outsider.

You could also simply try to live that life here. Nothing requires you to live the rat race here. Downsize your lifestyle.

Yup, this. And also even if you’re pretty good at the language, it will always be somewhat tiring to engage in something other than your mother tongue.

I’m an outsider where I live now (Florida).

This is a sorta gross comment. Are you really comparing moving to Florida to the struggle of being an immigrant in a foreign land?

No it’s not gross. You have to fit in where you live - I don’t have friends in Florida where I live, but have very close friends in the city I am daydreaming of. It’s just how it is. If you think this sounds absurd, maybe it is. Maybe my life is totally absurd.

No, your life is not absurd, it’s just a mismatch from your expectations. My in-laws are actual immigrants. No friends? MIL could barely ask the neighbors when trash pickup came because her English was so weak. Food, clothes, routines, everything was completely foreign to her, and she didn’t know a soul to discuss it with. Your life in Florida has nothing to do with being an immigrant. Get a freaking clue.

Actually one thing many immigrants have going for them is a solid community of immigrants who have a clear way of life to feel a part of. I would feel more isolated as a liberal in some redneck part of Florida than as a Central American in the DC area.

As an actual immigrant I will say please stop comparing a move within your own country to a move to another country. You don’t get it.

+1

Especially when these people seem to be saying “it’s so hard to live among rural people when you’re so superior to them!”

It is called “the culture wars” for a reason.

In Florida, there are schools who would not allow children with COVID vaccines to attend.
They ban discussion of our history of slavery because it might make white kids feel uncomfortable.

I know I would fit in better in Paris than Florida.

Get off the Huff post and start living in the real world. The "culture wars" is BS propaganda nonsense being pushed by idiot politicians and the media.

[Anonymous]

Maybe it will be different for you, but I found that even moving to the ends of the earth didn't make me feel much better as far as the rat race. The bad news still leaks in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you could work on making that come true. But keep in mind that you'll always be an outsider.

You could also simply try to live that life here. Nothing requires you to live the rat race here. Downsize your lifestyle.

Yup, this. And also even if you’re pretty good at the language, it will always be somewhat tiring to engage in something other than your mother tongue.

I’m an outsider where I live now (Florida).

This is a sorta gross comment. Are you really comparing moving to Florida to the struggle of being an immigrant in a foreign land?

No it’s not gross. You have to fit in where you live - I don’t have friends in Florida where I live, but have very close friends in the city I am daydreaming of. It’s just how it is. If you think this sounds absurd, maybe it is. Maybe my life is totally absurd.

No, your life is not absurd, it’s just a mismatch from your expectations. My in-laws are actual immigrants. No friends? MIL could barely ask the neighbors when trash pickup came because her English was so weak. Food, clothes, routines, everything was completely foreign to her, and she didn’t know a soul to discuss it with. Your life in Florida has nothing to do with being an immigrant. Get a freaking clue.

Actually one thing many immigrants have going for them is a solid community of immigrants who have a clear way of life to feel a part of. I would feel more isolated as a liberal in some redneck part of Florida than as a Central American in the DC area.

As an actual immigrant I will say please stop comparing a move within your own country to a move to another country. You don’t get it.

+1

Especially when these people seem to be saying “it’s so hard to live among rural people when you’re so superior to them!”

It is called “the culture wars” for a reason.

In Florida, there are schools who would not allow children with COVID vaccines to attend.
They ban discussion of our history of slavery because it might make white kids feel uncomfortable.

I know I would fit in better in Paris than Florida.

This is absolutely not happening in Florida. Just stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you could work on making that come true. But keep in mind that you'll always be an outsider.

You could also simply try to live that life here. Nothing requires you to live the rat race here. Downsize your lifestyle.

Not OP but one of the reasons this is appealing to me is that I've felt like an outsider my entire life so that aspect about moving abroad doesn't sound that hard to me. I grew up in a place where I was an outlier and while I didn't have a terrible childhood, I never totally felt I belonged. And as an adult I've learned that this means I'll probably never truly belong anywhere, because wherever I go now, I'm still coming there as an adult. I've been in DC for 20 years and have lots of friends and a career and a nice life here, but I still have that sense of being an outsider.

So doing that in a foreign country where I might have a very good quality of life and where the value system matches my own sounds appealing, even if I will always be "the American" there. It's really not much different than the rest of my life and I've found a way to make peace with that.

Be careful before giving this up. I think you’re being. delusional about how you’ll feel as an outsider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find a lot of Americans have fanciful ideas about living in Europe. It is hard to make real friends unless you’re always with expats and then you have to deal with the fact that expats move away. Culture, religion and food can be quite different. Yes, interest rate on your mortgage may be lower - but then the bank makes you purchase additional products through them. And life can be just as stressful and just as competitive. In some of the countries, with their higher unemployment rate, more competitive. You also end up supporting your kids for more years because they can’t find good paying jobs or are expected to take internship-level jobs into their 30s.

+1 a lot of them go for a few weeks and think it's some magic, fantasy place where they can live on 300 euros and find the fulfillment that they sorely lack. They have no grip on reality. - European NP

Who said €300? Are you from Romania?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you could work on making that come true. But keep in mind that you'll always be an outsider.

You could also simply try to live that life here. Nothing requires you to live the rat race here. Downsize your lifestyle.

I feel like I am trapped in this lifestyle until my kids go to college. It’s only a few more years, bittersweet of course because I will miss them a lot. OTOH, I don’t want to yank them out of school when their in HS and firmly rooted.

Your perceptions have walled you into a perceived prison.

Your kids could go to a good public school. They could live in a townhouse instead of a house. You could drive cheaper cars. Take fewer vacations. You are kidding yourselves that you could not have a great life under those circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you could work on making that come true. But keep in mind that you'll always be an outsider.

You could also simply try to live that life here. Nothing requires you to live the rat race here. Downsize your lifestyle.

Yup, this. And also even if you’re pretty good at the language, it will always be somewhat tiring to engage in something other than your mother tongue.

I’m an outsider where I live now (Florida).

This is a sorta gross comment. Are you really comparing moving to Florida to the struggle of being an immigrant in a foreign land?

No it’s not gross. You have to fit in where you live - I don’t have friends in Florida where I live, but have very close friends in the city I am daydreaming of. It’s just how it is. If you think this sounds absurd, maybe it is. Maybe my life is totally absurd.

No, your life is not absurd, it’s just a mismatch from your expectations. My in-laws are actual immigrants. No friends? MIL could barely ask the neighbors when trash pickup came because her English was so weak. Food, clothes, routines, everything was completely foreign to her, and she didn’t know a soul to discuss it with. Your life in Florida has nothing to do with being an immigrant. Get a freaking clue.

Actually one thing many immigrants have going for them is a solid community of immigrants who have a clear way of life to feel a part of. I would feel more isolated as a liberal in some redneck part of Florida than as a Central American in the DC area.

As an actual immigrant I will say please stop comparing a move within your own country to a move to another country. You don’t get it.

+1

Especially when these people seem to be saying “it’s so hard to live among rural people when you’re so superior to them!”

It is called “the culture wars” for a reason.

In Florida, there are schools who would not allow children with COVID vaccines to attend.
They ban discussion of our history of slavery because it might make white kids feel uncomfortable.

I know I would fit in better in Paris than Florida.

This is absolutely not happening in Florida. Just stop.

All of this has happened.
What, do you only listen to Fox News?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, you could work on making that come true. But keep in mind that you'll always be an outsider.

You could also simply try to live that life here. Nothing requires you to live the rat race here. Downsize your lifestyle.

Yup, this. And also even if you’re pretty good at the language, it will always be somewhat tiring to engage in something other than your mother tongue.

I’m an outsider where I live now (Florida).

This is a sorta gross comment. Are you really comparing moving to Florida to the struggle of being an immigrant in a foreign land?

No it’s not gross. You have to fit in where you live - I don’t have friends in Florida where I live, but have very close friends in the city I am daydreaming of. It’s just how it is. If you think this sounds absurd, maybe it is. Maybe my life is totally absurd.

No, your life is not absurd, it’s just a mismatch from your expectations. My in-laws are actual immigrants. No friends? MIL could barely ask the neighbors when trash pickup came because her English was so weak. Food, clothes, routines, everything was completely foreign to her, and she didn’t know a soul to discuss it with. Your life in Florida has nothing to do with being an immigrant. Get a freaking clue.

Actually one thing many immigrants have going for them is a solid community of immigrants who have a clear way of life to feel a part of. I would feel more isolated as a liberal in some redneck part of Florida than as a Central American in the DC area.

As an actual immigrant I will say please stop comparing a move within your own country to a move to another country. You don’t get it.

+1

Especially when these people seem to be saying “it’s so hard to live among rural people when you’re so superior to them!”

It is called “the culture wars” for a reason.

In Florida, there are schools who would not allow children with COVID vaccines to attend.
They ban discussion of our history of slavery because it might make white kids feel uncomfortable.

I know I would fit in better in Paris than Florida.

This is absolutely not happening in Florida. Just stop.

All of this has happened.
What, do you only listen to Fox News?

Don't tell them to stop. Let them go live in their fantasyland of Europe with all the like-minded people. Enjoy!!!

[Anonymous]

How would Lyon be as a hub (for months spent in Europe each year)? I like mountains and Switzerland, and speak French.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How would Lyon be as a hub (for months spent in Europe each year)? I like mountains and Switzerland, and speak French.

But I want to take public transportation everywhere.