why is russia friendly with belarus but not ukraine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.

Corruption in this case is a legacy of the Soviet Union and its breakup It is not innate.

Lol yes because the Russian Empire and the Central Asian khanates before 1917 were, like, the picture of integrity and accountability.

And the people revolted This particular breed of corruption is very much related to late stage USSR and its breakup. That's where the cultural memories are from
It's not like corruption is genetic. One good thing about Russia's invasion, crimes against humanity and non-stop comical embarrassments is it has provided daily reminders of why an autocratic corrupt system is so bad. That is literally what they are rejecting and fighting against. Maybe they'll revert back. But they have a chance. A new chapter of their history is being formed right now. What happens now is the new Ukrainian formative memory. This is their creation story.

You are so determined to bend facts to suit your argument, it's almost comical. You think USSR came into the tabula rasa? Or did it grow on what was there to begin with? You think there was no cultural memory at all prior to 1917? No culture (not like ballet or art, like "the shared understanding of how things ought to be done")? You think revolts remake thousands of years of history wholesale? Oh I know, you're from the neocon family who believes you can "import democracy" to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, you only have to press the right buttons and people will morph into brown-skinned copies of us!

It's shocking that the U.S. effectively implemented tabula rasa using the Red Army in 1917, as well as subsequently killed millions to wipe the slate clean, so to speak.

I'm also appalled by U.S. support of Iraq in the Iran–Iraq War from 1980 to 1988. The U.S. also invaded Afghanistan from 1979 to 1989.

No neocon can deny "importing democracy" using the KGB into Saddam Hussein's representative and freely elected form of government.

Actually, now that I think about it. Hang on - that wasn't the U.S. doing all these things - it was Russia in the Soviet Union!

You had be fooled there for a minute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.

Corruption in this case is a legacy of the Soviet Union and its breakup It is not innate.

Lol yes because the Russian Empire and the Central Asian khanates before 1917 were, like, the picture of integrity and accountability.

And the people revolted This particular breed of corruption is very much related to late stage USSR and its breakup. That's where the cultural memories are from
It's not like corruption is genetic. One good thing about Russia's invasion, crimes against humanity and non-stop comical embarrassments is it has provided daily reminders of why an autocratic corrupt system is so bad. That is literally what they are rejecting and fighting against. Maybe they'll revert back. But they have a chance. A new chapter of their history is being formed right now. What happens now is the new Ukrainian formative memory. This is their creation story.

You are so determined to bend facts to suit your argument, it's almost comical. You think USSR came into the tabula rasa? Or did it grow on what was there to begin with? You think there was no cultural memory at all prior to 1917? No culture (not like ballet or art, like "the shared understanding of how things ought to be done")? You think revolts remake thousands of years of history wholesale? Oh I know, you're from the neocon family who believes you can "import democracy" to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, you only have to press the right buttons and people will morph into brown-skinned copies of us!

It's shocking that the U.S. effectively implemented tabula rasa using the Red Army in 1917, as well as subsequently killed millions to wipe the slate clean, so to speak.

I'm also appalled by U.S. support of Iraq in the Iran–Iraq War from 1980 to 1988. The U.S. also invaded Afghanistan from 1979 to 1989.

No neocon can deny "importing democracy" using the KGB into Saddam Hussein's representative and freely elected form of government.

Actually, now that I think about it. Hang on - that wasn't the U.S. doing all these things - it was Russia in the Soviet Union!

You had be fooled there for a minute.

Well if you are going back in history....and remember it wasn't me...the US did effectively implement tabula rasa, killing millions and wiping the slate clean right here on this continent. So the joke falls a bit flat doesn't it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.

Corruption in this case is a legacy of the Soviet Union and its breakup It is not innate.

Lol yes because the Russian Empire and the Central Asian khanates before 1917 were, like, the picture of integrity and accountability.

And the people revolted This particular breed of corruption is very much related to late stage USSR and its breakup. That's where the cultural memories are from
It's not like corruption is genetic. One good thing about Russia's invasion, crimes against humanity and non-stop comical embarrassments is it has provided daily reminders of why an autocratic corrupt system is so bad. That is literally what they are rejecting and fighting against. Maybe they'll revert back. But they have a chance. A new chapter of their history is being formed right now. What happens now is the new Ukrainian formative memory. This is their creation story.

You are so determined to bend facts to suit your argument, it's almost comical. You think USSR came into the tabula rasa? Or did it grow on what was there to begin with? You think there was no cultural memory at all prior to 1917? No culture (not like ballet or art, like "the shared understanding of how things ought to be done")? You think revolts remake thousands of years of history wholesale? Oh I know, you're from the neocon family who believes you can "import democracy" to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, you only have to press the right buttons and people will morph into brown-skinned copies of us!

It's shocking that the U.S. effectively implemented tabula rasa using the Red Army in 1917, as well as subsequently killed millions to wipe the slate clean, so to speak.

I'm also appalled by U.S. support of Iraq in the Iran–Iraq War from 1980 to 1988. The U.S. also invaded Afghanistan from 1979 to 1989.

No neocon can deny "importing democracy" using the KGB into Saddam Hussein's representative and freely elected form of government.

Actually, now that I think about it. Hang on - that wasn't the U.S. doing all these things - it was Russia in the Soviet Union!

You had be fooled there for a minute.

Well if you are going back in history....and remember it wasn't me...the US did effectively implement tabula rasa, killing millions and wiping the slate clean right here on this continent. So the joke falls a bit flat doesn't it.

Your point is that the American Indian wars from 1600's through 1800's were the inspiration for Stalin in 1917? lol. If you want to say that, it's fine. That means Russia plans to fight for another 100 years? Now I know.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for refloating the joke. You were a big help.

[Anonymous]

Belarus' government seems to be as worried as Russia's about making it though this winter.

“The Belarusian army is weak and demotivated, and it is not willing to fight with Ukraine, which means that Lukashenko will try to give Putin anything but Belarusian soldiers,” Ukrainian military analyst Oleh Zhdanov told The Associated Press on Tuesday. “Lukashenko is letting Putin know: ‘I will help, but I won’t fight.'"
https://www.yahoo.com/news/belarus-army-likely-little-impact-085607697.html

I agree. I think Lukashenko is fearful that once their military sees what's actually happening in Ukraine first hand, there's a bigger issue those same troops will bring the morale problems back to the other military units, or that they may surrender or even turn on the government. The last thing Putin needs right now is yet another uprising on his hands.

"Subordination of state security bodies exclusively to the President of Belarus is provided by it; its system is improved,"
https://news.yahoo.com/lukashenko-decides-state-security-agencies-204757832.html

Lukashenko is circling wagons ahead of the likely food shortages this winter. My guess is that he is neither trusted nor respected by his own government officials, so has to do this to ensure his own survival.

"Belarus has released 20 T-72 tanks from storage and sent them to Belgorod Oblast, Russia [on the northeastern border with Ukraine - ed.]"
https://news.yahoo.com/belarus-sends-first-shipment-t-042020670.html

The transfer of T-72's is an example of posturing. T-72's were top of the line in 1967 (e.g. Vietnam Era) and stop being manufactured over 40 years ago (1973). Twenty of them isn't enough to change anything. Ukraine has sufficient anti-tank weaponry to deal with them in short order. More likely it's to get the tanks out of the hands of his own military. He may suspect that they could be used against the few loyalists he has left?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.

Corruption in this case is a legacy of the Soviet Union and its breakup It is not innate.

Lol yes because the Russian Empire and the Central Asian khanates before 1917 were, like, the picture of integrity and accountability.

And the people revolted This particular breed of corruption is very much related to late stage USSR and its breakup. That's where the cultural memories are from
It's not like corruption is genetic. One good thing about Russia's invasion, crimes against humanity and non-stop comical embarrassments is it has provided daily reminders of why an autocratic corrupt system is so bad. That is literally what they are rejecting and fighting against. Maybe they'll revert back. But they have a chance. A new chapter of their history is being formed right now. What happens now is the new Ukrainian formative memory. This is their creation story.

You are so determined to bend facts to suit your argument, it's almost comical. You think USSR came into the tabula rasa? Or did it grow on what was there to begin with? You think there was no cultural memory at all prior to 1917? No culture (not like ballet or art, like "the shared understanding of how things ought to be done")? You think revolts remake thousands of years of history wholesale? Oh I know, you're from the neocon family who believes you can "import democracy" to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, you only have to press the right buttons and people will morph into brown-skinned copies of us!

It's shocking that the U.S. effectively implemented tabula rasa using the Red Army in 1917, as well as subsequently killed millions to wipe the slate clean, so to speak.

I'm also appalled by U.S. support of Iraq in the Iran–Iraq War from 1980 to 1988. The U.S. also invaded Afghanistan from 1979 to 1989.

No neocon can deny "importing democracy" using the KGB into Saddam Hussein's representative and freely elected form of government.

Actually, now that I think about it. Hang on - that wasn't the U.S. doing all these things - it was Russia in the Soviet Union!

You had be fooled there for a minute.

Well if you are going back in history....and remember it wasn't me...the US did effectively implement tabula rasa, killing millions and wiping the slate clean right here on this continent. So the joke falls a bit flat doesn't it.

Your point is that the American Indian wars from 1600's through 1800's were the inspiration for Stalin in 1917? lol. If you want to say that, it's fine. That means Russia plans to fight for another 100 years? Now I know.

Stalin in 1917? Sure. And Queen Elizabeth II too. And Spiro Agnew. All in 1917.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.

Corruption in this case is a legacy of the Soviet Union and its breakup It is not innate.

Lol yes because the Russian Empire and the Central Asian khanates before 1917 were, like, the picture of integrity and accountability.

And the people revolted This particular breed of corruption is very much related to late stage USSR and its breakup. That's where the cultural memories are from
It's not like corruption is genetic. One good thing about Russia's invasion, crimes against humanity and non-stop comical embarrassments is it has provided daily reminders of why an autocratic corrupt system is so bad. That is literally what they are rejecting and fighting against. Maybe they'll revert back. But they have a chance. A new chapter of their history is being formed right now. What happens now is the new Ukrainian formative memory. This is their creation story.

You are so determined to bend facts to suit your argument, it's almost comical. You think USSR came into the tabula rasa? Or did it grow on what was there to begin with? You think there was no cultural memory at all prior to 1917? No culture (not like ballet or art, like "the shared understanding of how things ought to be done")? You think revolts remake thousands of years of history wholesale? Oh I know, you're from the neocon family who believes you can "import democracy" to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, you only have to press the right buttons and people will morph into brown-skinned copies of us!

No, that is not it. And the key point is that democracy is not being imported. It is not being imposed top down by an outside power. It is being chosen by the people of Ukraine and they are fighting for their own independence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.

Corruption in this case is a legacy of the Soviet Union and its breakup It is not innate.

Lol yes because the Russian Empire and the Central Asian khanates before 1917 were, like, the picture of integrity and accountability.

And the people revolted This particular breed of corruption is very much related to late stage USSR and its breakup. That's where the cultural memories are from
It's not like corruption is genetic. One good thing about Russia's invasion, crimes against humanity and non-stop comical embarrassments is it has provided daily reminders of why an autocratic corrupt system is so bad. That is literally what they are rejecting and fighting against. Maybe they'll revert back. But they have a chance. A new chapter of their history is being formed right now. What happens now is the new Ukrainian formative memory. This is their creation story.

You are so determined to bend facts to suit your argument, it's almost comical. You think USSR came into the tabula rasa? Or did it grow on what was there to begin with? You think there was no cultural memory at all prior to 1917? No culture (not like ballet or art, like "the shared understanding of how things ought to be done")? You think revolts remake thousands of years of history wholesale? Oh I know, you're from the neocon family who believes you can "import democracy" to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, you only have to press the right buttons and people will morph into brown-skinned copies of us!

It's shocking that the U.S. effectively implemented tabula rasa using the Red Army in 1917, as well as subsequently killed millions to wipe the slate clean, so to speak.

I'm also appalled by U.S. support of Iraq in the Iran–Iraq War from 1980 to 1988. The U.S. also invaded Afghanistan from 1979 to 1989.

No neocon can deny "importing democracy" using the KGB into Saddam Hussein's representative and freely elected form of government.

Actually, now that I think about it. Hang on - that wasn't the U.S. doing all these things - it was Russia in the Soviet Union!

You had be fooled there for a minute.

Well if you are going back in history....and remember it wasn't me...the US did effectively implement tabula rasa, killing millions and wiping the slate clean right here on this continent. So the joke falls a bit flat doesn't it.

For a supposed American you seem to know very little. The Indian Wars were not the American tabula rasa event. The revolution was and then after that the civil war. The Indian wars as devastating as they were to native americans have no cultural purchase to people today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.

Corruption in this case is a legacy of the Soviet Union and its breakup It is not innate.

Lol yes because the Russian Empire and the Central Asian khanates before 1917 were, like, the picture of integrity and accountability.

And the people revolted This particular breed of corruption is very much related to late stage USSR and its breakup. That's where the cultural memories are from
It's not like corruption is genetic. One good thing about Russia's invasion, crimes against humanity and non-stop comical embarrassments is it has provided daily reminders of why an autocratic corrupt system is so bad. That is literally what they are rejecting and fighting against. Maybe they'll revert back. But they have a chance. A new chapter of their history is being formed right now. What happens now is the new Ukrainian formative memory. This is their creation story.

You are so determined to bend facts to suit your argument, it's almost comical. You think USSR came into the tabula rasa? Or did it grow on what was there to begin with? You think there was no cultural memory at all prior to 1917? No culture (not like ballet or art, like "the shared understanding of how things ought to be done")? You think revolts remake thousands of years of history wholesale? Oh I know, you're from the neocon family who believes you can "import democracy" to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, you only have to press the right buttons and people will morph into brown-skinned copies of us!

No, that is not it. And the key point is that democracy is not being imported. It is not being imposed top down by an outside power. It is being chosen by the people of Ukraine and they are fighting for their own independence.

People can fight for independence that doesn't extend to democracy, or indeed, your understanding of democracy. Look at Afghanistan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.

Corruption in this case is a legacy of the Soviet Union and its breakup It is not innate.

Lol yes because the Russian Empire and the Central Asian khanates before 1917 were, like, the picture of integrity and accountability.

And the people revolted This particular breed of corruption is very much related to late stage USSR and its breakup. That's where the cultural memories are from
It's not like corruption is genetic. One good thing about Russia's invasion, crimes against humanity and non-stop comical embarrassments is it has provided daily reminders of why an autocratic corrupt system is so bad. That is literally what they are rejecting and fighting against. Maybe they'll revert back. But they have a chance. A new chapter of their history is being formed right now. What happens now is the new Ukrainian formative memory. This is their creation story.

You are so determined to bend facts to suit your argument, it's almost comical. You think USSR came into the tabula rasa? Or did it grow on what was there to begin with? You think there was no cultural memory at all prior to 1917? No culture (not like ballet or art, like "the shared understanding of how things ought to be done")? You think revolts remake thousands of years of history wholesale? Oh I know, you're from the neocon family who believes you can "import democracy" to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, you only have to press the right buttons and people will morph into brown-skinned copies of us!

It's shocking that the U.S. effectively implemented tabula rasa using the Red Army in 1917, as well as subsequently killed millions to wipe the slate clean, so to speak.

I'm also appalled by U.S. support of Iraq in the Iran–Iraq War from 1980 to 1988. The U.S. also invaded Afghanistan from 1979 to 1989.

No neocon can deny "importing democracy" using the KGB into Saddam Hussein's representative and freely elected form of government.

Actually, now that I think about it. Hang on - that wasn't the U.S. doing all these things - it was Russia in the Soviet Union!

You had be fooled there for a minute.

Well if you are going back in history....and remember it wasn't me...the US did effectively implement tabula rasa, killing millions and wiping the slate clean right here on this continent. So the joke falls a bit flat doesn't it.

For a supposed American you seem to know very little. The Indian Wars were not the American tabula rasa event. The revolution was and then after that the civil war. The Indian wars as devastating as they were to native americans have no cultural purchase to people today.

With all my kindness - there is more than one way to wipe the slate clean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.

Corruption in this case is a legacy of the Soviet Union and its breakup It is not innate.

Lol yes because the Russian Empire and the Central Asian khanates before 1917 were, like, the picture of integrity and accountability.

And the people revolted This particular breed of corruption is very much related to late stage USSR and its breakup. That's where the cultural memories are from
It's not like corruption is genetic. One good thing about Russia's invasion, crimes against humanity and non-stop comical embarrassments is it has provided daily reminders of why an autocratic corrupt system is so bad. That is literally what they are rejecting and fighting against. Maybe they'll revert back. But they have a chance. A new chapter of their history is being formed right now. What happens now is the new Ukrainian formative memory. This is their creation story.

You are so determined to bend facts to suit your argument, it's almost comical. You think USSR came into the tabula rasa? Or did it grow on what was there to begin with? You think there was no cultural memory at all prior to 1917? No culture (not like ballet or art, like "the shared understanding of how things ought to be done")? You think revolts remake thousands of years of history wholesale? Oh I know, you're from the neocon family who believes you can "import democracy" to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, you only have to press the right buttons and people will morph into brown-skinned copies of us!

It's shocking that the U.S. effectively implemented tabula rasa using the Red Army in 1917, as well as subsequently killed millions to wipe the slate clean, so to speak.

I'm also appalled by U.S. support of Iraq in the Iran–Iraq War from 1980 to 1988. The U.S. also invaded Afghanistan from 1979 to 1989.

No neocon can deny "importing democracy" using the KGB into Saddam Hussein's representative and freely elected form of government.

Actually, now that I think about it. Hang on - that wasn't the U.S. doing all these things - it was Russia in the Soviet Union!

You had be fooled there for a minute.

Well if you are going back in history....and remember it wasn't me...the US did effectively implement tabula rasa, killing millions and wiping the slate clean right here on this continent. So the joke falls a bit flat doesn't it.

For a supposed American you seem to know very little. The Indian Wars were not the American tabula rasa event. The revolution was and then after that the civil war. The Indian wars as devastating as they were to native americans have no cultural purchase to people today.

With all my kindness - there is more than one way to wipe the slate clean.

With all my kindness, you dont know jack about American history. But yes, Russia is conducting an "indian war" against Ukraine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.

Corruption in this case is a legacy of the Soviet Union and its breakup It is not innate.

Lol yes because the Russian Empire and the Central Asian khanates before 1917 were, like, the picture of integrity and accountability.

And the people revolted This particular breed of corruption is very much related to late stage USSR and its breakup. That's where the cultural memories are from
It's not like corruption is genetic. One good thing about Russia's invasion, crimes against humanity and non-stop comical embarrassments is it has provided daily reminders of why an autocratic corrupt system is so bad. That is literally what they are rejecting and fighting against. Maybe they'll revert back. But they have a chance. A new chapter of their history is being formed right now. What happens now is the new Ukrainian formative memory. This is their creation story.

You are so determined to bend facts to suit your argument, it's almost comical. You think USSR came into the tabula rasa? Or did it grow on what was there to begin with? You think there was no cultural memory at all prior to 1917? No culture (not like ballet or art, like "the shared understanding of how things ought to be done")? You think revolts remake thousands of years of history wholesale? Oh I know, you're from the neocon family who believes you can "import democracy" to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, you only have to press the right buttons and people will morph into brown-skinned copies of us!

No, that is not it. And the key point is that democracy is not being imported. It is not being imposed top down by an outside power. It is being chosen by the people of Ukraine and they are fighting for their own independence.

People can fight for independence that doesn't extend to democracy, or indeed, your understanding of democracy. Look at Afghanistan.

Yes they can. But Ukraine is fighting an independence war that does include democracy. You do not know what my understanding of democracy is and are making a lot of incorrect assumptions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.

Corruption in this case is a legacy of the Soviet Union and its breakup It is not innate.

Lol yes because the Russian Empire and the Central Asian khanates before 1917 were, like, the picture of integrity and accountability.

And the people revolted This particular breed of corruption is very much related to late stage USSR and its breakup. That's where the cultural memories are from
It's not like corruption is genetic. One good thing about Russia's invasion, crimes against humanity and non-stop comical embarrassments is it has provided daily reminders of why an autocratic corrupt system is so bad. That is literally what they are rejecting and fighting against. Maybe they'll revert back. But they have a chance. A new chapter of their history is being formed right now. What happens now is the new Ukrainian formative memory. This is their creation story.

You are so determined to bend facts to suit your argument, it's almost comical. You think USSR came into the tabula rasa? Or did it grow on what was there to begin with? You think there was no cultural memory at all prior to 1917? No culture (not like ballet or art, like "the shared understanding of how things ought to be done")? You think revolts remake thousands of years of history wholesale? Oh I know, you're from the neocon family who believes you can "import democracy" to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, you only have to press the right buttons and people will morph into brown-skinned copies of us!

No, that is not it. And the key point is that democracy is not being imported. It is not being imposed top down by an outside power. It is being chosen by the people of Ukraine and they are fighting for their own independence.

People can fight for independence that doesn't extend to democracy, or indeed, your understanding of democracy. Look at Afghanistan.

Yes they can. But Ukraine is fighting an independence war that does include democracy. You do not know what my understanding of democracy is and are making a lot of incorrect assumptions.

We don't need to know what your understanding of democracy is for the above statement to be accurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.

Corruption in this case is a legacy of the Soviet Union and its breakup It is not innate.

Lol yes because the Russian Empire and the Central Asian khanates before 1917 were, like, the picture of integrity and accountability.

And the people revolted This particular breed of corruption is very much related to late stage USSR and its breakup. That's where the cultural memories are from
It's not like corruption is genetic. One good thing about Russia's invasion, crimes against humanity and non-stop comical embarrassments is it has provided daily reminders of why an autocratic corrupt system is so bad. That is literally what they are rejecting and fighting against. Maybe they'll revert back. But they have a chance. A new chapter of their history is being formed right now. What happens now is the new Ukrainian formative memory. This is their creation story.

You are so determined to bend facts to suit your argument, it's almost comical. You think USSR came into the tabula rasa? Or did it grow on what was there to begin with? You think there was no cultural memory at all prior to 1917? No culture (not like ballet or art, like "the shared understanding of how things ought to be done")? You think revolts remake thousands of years of history wholesale? Oh I know, you're from the neocon family who believes you can "import democracy" to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, you only have to press the right buttons and people will morph into brown-skinned copies of us!

It's shocking that the U.S. effectively implemented tabula rasa using the Red Army in 1917, as well as subsequently killed millions to wipe the slate clean, so to speak.

I'm also appalled by U.S. support of Iraq in the Iran–Iraq War from 1980 to 1988. The U.S. also invaded Afghanistan from 1979 to 1989.

No neocon can deny "importing democracy" using the KGB into Saddam Hussein's representative and freely elected form of government.

Actually, now that I think about it. Hang on - that wasn't the U.S. doing all these things - it was Russia in the Soviet Union!

You had be fooled there for a minute.

Well if you are going back in history....and remember it wasn't me...the US did effectively implement tabula rasa, killing millions and wiping the slate clean right here on this continent. So the joke falls a bit flat doesn't it.

For a supposed American you seem to know very little. The Indian Wars were not the American tabula rasa event. The revolution was and then after that the civil war. The Indian wars as devastating as they were to native americans have no cultural purchase to people today.

With all my kindness - there is more than one way to wipe the slate clean.

With all my kindness, you dont know jack about American history. But yes, Russia is conducting an "indian war" against Ukraine.

The body count doesn't quite match the "indian war" method.

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Anonymous wrote:Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal.

Corruption in this case is a legacy of the Soviet Union and its breakup It is not innate.

Lol yes because the Russian Empire and the Central Asian khanates before 1917 were, like, the picture of integrity and accountability.

And the people revolted This particular breed of corruption is very much related to late stage USSR and its breakup. That's where the cultural memories are from
It's not like corruption is genetic. One good thing about Russia's invasion, crimes against humanity and non-stop comical embarrassments is it has provided daily reminders of why an autocratic corrupt system is so bad. That is literally what they are rejecting and fighting against. Maybe they'll revert back. But they have a chance. A new chapter of their history is being formed right now. What happens now is the new Ukrainian formative memory. This is their creation story.

You are so determined to bend facts to suit your argument, it's almost comical. You think USSR came into the tabula rasa? Or did it grow on what was there to begin with? You think there was no cultural memory at all prior to 1917? No culture (not like ballet or art, like "the shared understanding of how things ought to be done")? You think revolts remake thousands of years of history wholesale? Oh I know, you're from the neocon family who believes you can "import democracy" to places like Iraq and Afghanistan, you only have to press the right buttons and people will morph into brown-skinned copies of us!

It's shocking that the U.S. effectively implemented tabula rasa using the Red Army in 1917, as well as subsequently killed millions to wipe the slate clean, so to speak.

I'm also appalled by U.S. support of Iraq in the Iran–Iraq War from 1980 to 1988. The U.S. also invaded Afghanistan from 1979 to 1989.

No neocon can deny "importing democracy" using the KGB into Saddam Hussein's representative and freely elected form of government.

Actually, now that I think about it. Hang on - that wasn't the U.S. doing all these things - it was Russia in the Soviet Union!

You had be fooled there for a minute.

Well if you are going back in history....and remember it wasn't me...the US did effectively implement tabula rasa, killing millions and wiping the slate clean right here on this continent. So the joke falls a bit flat doesn't it.

For a supposed American you seem to know very little. The Indian Wars were not the American tabula rasa event. The revolution was and then after that the civil war. The Indian wars as devastating as they were to native americans have no cultural purchase to people today.

With all my kindness - there is more than one way to wipe the slate clean.

With all my kindness, you dont know jack about American history. But yes, Russia is conducting an "indian war" against Ukraine.

The body count doesn't quite match the "indian war" method.

The statements by Russian officials, their general conduct of the war and the filtration and re-education camps do. It is shockingly on point. Even down to the offenses taken by the aggressor.