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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Without the Russian oligarchs, Trump, Giuliani and whoever else, Ukraine would still be corrupt because corruption in the country is endemic, not brought from the outside. You don’t understand the culture if you think otherwise. Anti corruption makes a great campaign slogan but it doesn't really  change things on the ground. Repeating: corruption simply isn’t seen as a big deal. [/quote]

Corruption in this case is a legacy of the Soviet Union and its breakup   It is not innate.  [/quote]

Lol yes because the Russian Empire and the Central Asian khanates before 1917 were, like, the picture of integrity and accountability. [/quote]

And the people revolted   [b]This particular breed of corruption is very much related to late stage USSR and its breakup.[/b]  That's where the cultural memories are from
  It's not like corruption is genetic. One good thing about Russia's invasion, crimes against humanity and non-stop comical embarrassments is it has provided daily reminders of why an autocratic corrupt system is so bad.  That is literally what they are rejecting and fighting against.  Maybe they'll revert back.  But they have a chance.  A new chapter of their history is being formed right now.  What happens now is the new Ukrainian formative memory.  This is their creation story.[/quote]

You are so determined to bend facts to suit your argument, it's almost comical.  [b]You think USSR came into the tabula rasa?[/b] Or did it grow on what was there to begin with? You think there was no cultural memory at all prior to 1917? No culture (not like ballet or art, like "the shared understanding of how things ought to be done")? You think revolts remake thousands of years of history wholesale? Oh I know, you're from the neocon family who believes you can "import democracy" to places like [b]Iraq and Afghanistan[/b], you only have to press the right buttons and people will morph into brown-skinned copies of us! [/quote]

It's shocking that the U.S. effectively implemented tabula rasa using the Red Army in 1917, [b]as well as subsequently killed millions to wipe the slate clean, so to speak.
[/b]
I'm also appalled by U.S. support of Iraq in the Iran–Iraq War from 1980 to 1988.  The U.S. also invaded Afghanistan from 1979 to 1989.

No neocon can deny "importing democracy" using the KGB into Saddam Hussein's representative and freely elected form of government.

Actually, now that I think about it.  Hang on - that wasn't the U.S. doing all these things - it was Russia in the Soviet Union!

You had be fooled there for a minute.

[/quote]

Well if you are going back in history....and remember it wasn't me...the US did effectively implement tabula rasa, killing millions and wiping the slate clean right here on this continent. So the joke falls a bit flat doesn't it.[/quote]

Your point is that the American Indian wars from 1600's through 1800's were the inspiration for Stalin in 1917?  lol.  If you want to say that, it's fine.  That means Russia plans to fight for another 100 years?  Now I know.  [/quote]

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