Target/Match vs. Likely/Safety

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here- with TO it seems that the test scores of admitted students will be skewed much higher because only kids with high test scores will be submitting them, right? And I have heard that Naviance is only as good as how up to date your school admin keeps it, correct?

I hope the SATS scores are skewing high and will come back to earth before my 10 & 11th graders apply. The 11th grader is practice testing around 1390 & with a weighted 4.0, and against current college stats, his “safeties” are looking more like super “reaches”. Regarding naviance, the high schools I’m aware of are good at keeping that up to date.

I hope so too (for my 11th grader) but realistically the only way that will happen is if more schools (like MIT) revert to non-optional. So many schools have not announced their plans for the fall 2023 application cycle (current juniors) -- BC and Villanova are two that come to mind -- so I'll be curious to see whether they, or schools of similar selectivity, start requiring scores again.

Actually, many schools have announced their plans: test optional.

If you're going to take the SAT, just factor in higher scores since only applicants with high scores will submit.

After the SCOTUS bans affirmative action in the upcoming cases, test optional will likely be the norm anyways.

There won't be any clear / definitive advantage to having a high SAT score. The SAT is already a lower stakes test in today's college admissions environment.

I agree that the significance of an SAT scores ain't what it used to be by any means. But as long as the scores submitted by applicants are made public, and are available on the many college related websites, colleges will want those scores to be as high as practical. (Some people will continue to believe that the higher the average scores, the more selective and prestigious the school.) Thus there will still be value in a strong SAT score.

For a test optional school, how so?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here- with TO it seems that the test scores of admitted students will be skewed much higher because only kids with high test scores will be submitting them, right? And I have heard that Naviance is only as good as how up to date your school admin keeps it, correct?

I hope the SATS scores are skewing high and will come back to earth before my 10 & 11th graders apply. The 11th grader is practice testing around 1390 & with a weighted 4.0, and against current college stats, his “safeties” are looking more like super “reaches”. Regarding naviance, the high schools I’m aware of are good at keeping that up to date.

I hope so too (for my 11th grader) but realistically the only way that will happen is if more schools (like MIT) revert to non-optional. So many schools have not announced their plans for the fall 2023 application cycle (current juniors) -- BC and Villanova are two that come to mind -- so I'll be curious to see whether they, or schools of similar selectivity, start requiring scores again.

Actually, many schools have announced their plans: test optional.

If you're going to take the SAT, just factor in higher scores since only applicants with high scores will submit.

After the SCOTUS bans affirmative action in the upcoming cases, test optional will likely be the norm anyways.

There won't be any clear / definitive advantage to having a high SAT score. The SAT is already a lower stakes test in today's college admissions environment.

I agree that the significance of an SAT scores ain't what it used to be by any means. But as long as the scores submitted by applicants are made public, and are available on the many college related websites, colleges will want those scores to be as high as practical. (Some people will continue to believe that the higher the average scores, the more selective and prestigious the school.) Thus there will still be value in a strong SAT score.

For a test optional school, how so?

Test optional is not really test optional. It basically allows the school to do whatever they want without objective criteria. So, if you have some characteristic that the school wants (demographics, a 4.3 40 yard, a great 3pt shot, a father that donated a library), then don't submit tests. If you don't have these things, you better have very high test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A safety is a safety once you're in. Apply early. We considered the process fluid. The list fluid. Applications went in, heard from some, schools could be dropped. Knew deadlines. Schools could be added. Btw, the ultimate safeties are schools in May-June that show up on the Space Available Survey. It's a thing.

This is an important part of this conversation that too many people overlook. Safety/match/reach need to be treated as loose ideas. The timing of when/how you are applying (rolling, ED, EA, RD) also influences outcomes. For example, Pitt might be a safety if you apply to it early, but it’s not if you apply as an afterthought when you push the button on Nov 1 for other schools.

You don’t need 20+ applications if you are strategic and realistic about the process.

DC1 applied 6 places (2 rolling, 4 EA), was accepted all, and chose state flagship. Top stat DC2 applied 4 places EA, got into 2 deferred to RD on other 2. But that early T20 acceptance meant about 6 other schools dropped off the RD list. DC2 applied three other T10 schools RD, accepted into 2 (ended up choosing 1st school). I’m guiding kid #3, also high stats but different interests from DC2. 1 rolling app is done. Will apply ED to 1 school that seems to be strong match and EA to 3 others. The state flagship is a match, the other two EA are reaches based on admit rates.

1. Find a school with rolling admission that is a safety and that DC would be happy going to.
2. Look at all in-state public schools and figure out which one is a match with your program. Apply EA. (Lower ranked in-state schools are your safeties to apply to RD if you misjudged and don’t get into what you thought was a match.)
3. Higher ranked in-state public schools are reaches. Apply EA.
4. Determine if there is any school that you are sure you want to apply to as ED. Don’t just pick a reach school for ED “just to try”. If there is a match school you’d really like to attend, your chances are better with ED. If you really aren’t sure about a particular school, then don’t apply ED.
5. For any other OOS or private school, apply EA if they are a match or a reach.
6. Wait …. When initial rolling, ED, and EA results come back, modify your remaining lists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here- with TO it seems that the test scores of admitted students will be skewed much higher because only kids with high test scores will be submitting them, right? And I have heard that Naviance is only as good as how up to date your school admin keeps it, correct?

I hope the SATS scores are skewing high and will come back to earth before my 10 & 11th graders apply. The 11th grader is practice testing around 1390 & with a weighted 4.0, and against current college stats, his “safeties” are looking more like super “reaches”. Regarding naviance, the high schools I’m aware of are good at keeping that up to date.

I hope so too (for my 11th grader) but realistically the only way that will happen is if more schools (like MIT) revert to non-optional. So many schools have not announced their plans for the fall 2023 application cycle (current juniors) -- BC and Villanova are two that come to mind -- so I'll be curious to see whether they, or schools of similar selectivity, start requiring scores again.

Actually, many schools have announced their plans: test optional.

If you're going to take the SAT, just factor in higher scores since only applicants with high scores will submit.

After the SCOTUS bans affirmative action in the upcoming cases, test optional will likely be the norm anyways.

There won't be any clear / definitive advantage to having a high SAT score. The SAT is already a lower stakes test in today's college admissions environment.

I agree that the significance of an SAT scores ain't what it used to be by any means. But as long as the scores submitted by applicants are made public, and are available on the many college related websites, colleges will want those scores to be as high as practical. (Some people will continue to believe that the higher the average scores, the more selective and prestigious the school.) Thus there will still be value in a strong SAT score.

For a test optional school, how so?

Test optional is not really test optional. It basically allows the school to do whatever they want without objective criteria. So, if you have some characteristic that the school wants (demographics, a 4.3 40 yard, a great 3pt shot, a father that donated a library), then don't submit tests. If you don't have these things, you better have very high test scores.

Does the data bear out your assertion? At our school, very few kids tested (like 13 of 80) last year. Full disclosure, it is California, but kids got into good schools outside of the state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here- with TO it seems that the test scores of admitted students will be skewed much higher because only kids with high test scores will be submitting them, right? And I have heard that Naviance is only as good as how up to date your school admin keeps it, correct?

I hope the SATS scores are skewing high and will come back to earth before my 10 & 11th graders apply. The 11th grader is practice testing around 1390 & with a weighted 4.0, and against current college stats, his “safeties” are looking more like super “reaches”. Regarding naviance, the high schools I’m aware of are good at keeping that up to date.

I hope so too (for my 11th grader) but realistically the only way that will happen is if more schools (like MIT) revert to non-optional. So many schools have not announced their plans for the fall 2023 application cycle (current juniors) -- BC and Villanova are two that come to mind -- so I'll be curious to see whether they, or schools of similar selectivity, start requiring scores again.

Actually, many schools have announced their plans: test optional.

If you're going to take the SAT, just factor in higher scores since only applicants with high scores will submit.

After the SCOTUS bans affirmative action in the upcoming cases, test optional will likely be the norm anyways.

There won't be any clear / definitive advantage to having a high SAT score. The SAT is already a lower stakes test in today's college admissions environment.

I agree that the significance of an SAT scores ain't what it used to be by any means. But as long as the scores submitted by applicants are made public, and are available on the many college related websites, colleges will want those scores to be as high as practical. (Some people will continue to believe that the higher the average scores, the more selective and prestigious the school.) Thus there will still be value in a strong SAT score.

For a test optional school, how so?

Test optional is not the same as test blind. Schools that are test optional DO consider test scores and as posted earlier, colleges want their applicants' SAT scores - which they have to report for their Common Data Sets, etc. - to be as strong as possible. So among unhooked candidates who are otherwise more or less equal in the eyes of an admissions counselor, those who submit a very good SAT score will have an advantage.

[Anonymous]

Test scores never got you into a school. They used to be able to keep you out. Now, most places, they can't even do that anymore. Their value is small and declining rapidly.

[Anonymous]

Great post 18:30

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great suggestions in this thread, thanks.

Did any of you encourage your student to include rolling admission schools on their likely list, and apply to them as early as possible?

PITT is it.

We kept going back and forth on Pitt but after visiting, it’s now one of DS’s top choice schools. It’s really good to like your safeties!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Great post 18:30

Thanks! Took longer to type in my phone than it should have, so if it was helpful to one person, I’m happy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here- with TO it seems that the test scores of admitted students will be skewed much higher because only kids with high test scores will be submitting them, right? And I have heard that Naviance is only as good as how up to date your school admin keeps it, correct?

I hope the SATS scores are skewing high and will come back to earth before my 10 & 11th graders apply. The 11th grader is practice testing around 1390 & with a weighted 4.0, and against current college stats, his “safeties” are looking more like super “reaches”. Regarding naviance, the high schools I’m aware of are good at keeping that up to date.

I hope so too (for my 11th grader) but realistically the only way that will happen is if more schools (like MIT) revert to non-optional. So many schools have not announced their plans for the fall 2023 application cycle (current juniors) -- BC and Villanova are two that come to mind -- so I'll be curious to see whether they, or schools of similar selectivity, start requiring scores again.

Actually, many schools have announced their plans: test optional.

If you're going to take the SAT, just factor in higher scores since only applicants with high scores will submit.

After the SCOTUS bans affirmative action in the upcoming cases, test optional will likely be the norm anyways.

There won't be any clear / definitive advantage to having a high SAT score. The SAT is already a lower stakes test in today's college admissions environment.

I agree that the significance of an SAT scores ain't what it used to be by any means. But as long as the scores submitted by applicants are made public, and are available on the many college related websites, colleges will want those scores to be as high as practical. (Some people will continue to believe that the higher the average scores, the more selective and prestigious the school.) Thus there will still be value in a strong SAT score.

For a test optional school, how so?

Test optional is not really test optional. It basically allows the school to do whatever they want without objective criteria. So, if you have some characteristic that the school wants (demographics, a 4.3 40 yard, a great 3pt shot, a father that donated a library), then don't submit tests. If you don't have these things, you better have very high test scores.

To be blunt, if you are white and not first-generation you need to have top grades and submit scores if you want to get into a top school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great suggestions in this thread, thanks.

Did any of you encourage your student to include rolling admission schools on their likely list, and apply to them as early as possible?

PITT is it.

We kept going back and forth on Pitt but after visiting, it’s now one of DS’s top choice schools. It’s really good to like your safeties!

My high stats kid is not thrilled with Pitt as a safety. Any suggestions of other safeties/rolling admit schools? Not interested in huge state schools, not interested in Greek life, prefers East Coast, nerdy kids who wants challenge.

[Anonymous]

I use College Vine. DC is at a small school so I don’t know if Naviance is really all that useful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great suggestions in this thread, thanks.

Did any of you encourage your student to include rolling admission schools on their likely list, and apply to them as early as possible?

PITT is it.

We kept going back and forth on Pitt but after visiting, it’s now one of DS’s top choice schools. It’s really good to like your safeties!

It seems that Pitt is everyone's safety but almost no one's first choice around here. According to a handout given to the parents of seniors at our FCPS high school with information on college admissions for last year's graduating class, 68 students applied to Pitt and 53 accepted, but only a measley 2 actually enrolled there. That is a shockingly low yield rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Target/match: overall acceptance rate is better than 20% and they admit MOST students like you.

Likely/safety: they admit ALL students like you.

Best way to figure this out is look at the green check marks on Naviance. Ignore outliers.

I think Naviance has become less useful since schools went TO.

less useful than it was, but still more useful than anything else out there.

DP. But unfortunately, they use END of senior year GPA, so it turns out to be pretty much useless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great suggestions in this thread, thanks.

Did any of you encourage your student to include rolling admission schools on their likely list, and apply to them as early as possible?

PITT is it.

We kept going back and forth on Pitt but after visiting, it’s now one of DS’s top choice schools. It’s really good to like your safeties!

My high stats kid is not thrilled with Pitt as a safety. Any suggestions of other safeties/rolling admit schools? Not interested in huge state schools, not interested in Greek life, prefers East Coast, nerdy kids who wants challenge.

UMW