Why are teachers and nurses underpaid?

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't lump the two (teachers and nurses) in together. Teachers are paid quite well in places like FCPS and the bigger school districts for 9 months of work.

Close relative teaches French in Arizona and hets paid 68,000 a year. Not bad considering her husband makes about that too teaching a different subject.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't lump the two (teachers and nurses) in together. Teachers are paid quite well in places like FCPS and the bigger school districts for 9 months of work.

Close relative teaches French in Arizona and hets paid 68,000 a year. Not bad considering her husband makes about that too teaching a different subject.

More like 10 months, but who’s counting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a nurse. Nurses in this area are definitely underpaid- I made the same salary in Texas and didn't have to pay income tax and overall cost of living was much lower even though property tax was higher because property is cheap there. I think nurses are underpaid because there's so many of us- it would seriously put the hospital out of business to pay ALL of us much more (or make healthcare costs that much greater).

That is it in a nutshell right there. Wages are driven by supply and demand. The hospital isn't going to pay you more because they don't have to. They can replace you with another nurse willing to do the job for what they are offering. In areas with nursing shortages, the pay for nurses is increasing significantly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't lump the two (teachers and nurses) in together. Teachers are paid quite well in places like FCPS and the bigger school districts for 9 months of work.

Close relative teaches French in Arizona and hets paid 68,000 a year. Not bad considering her husband makes about that too teaching a different subject.

More like 10 months, but who’s counting?

Plus 10 days for spring break, two weeks for Christmas and every holiday known to man. It’s definitely closer to 9 months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember zoom school. The 2nd teacher, aged 27, had tons of misspellings and math errors whilst teaching. I viewed them as a slacker who just wanted a sleeper job. Not like kids are going to do anything, or the school. Schools keep poorly performing teachers all the time.

They ended up quitting to live abroad doing peace corp or something similar. Left in the middle of the school year as well. Very professional.

My question to you and the PP is how do we attract and retain those you would consider to be higher quality teachers?

Not the PP, but another teacher. I am comfortable saying I work with some serious slackers. I've watched colleagues plan their lessons 2 minutes before classes arrive, which means they usually resort to Youtube videos and a lot of down time. I've watched colleagues not teach at all, not grade at all, etc. Here's the problem as I see it: many of these teachers are the ones who are staying. Administrators don't fire these teachers, and these teachers care so little that they aren't intimidated by the idea of additional observations, write-ups. At the very worst, they'll get moved from school to school by principals who find transfering teachers easier than firing them. Their pay remains the same.

Strong teachers are the ones working hard and burning out. They are trying to mentor younger teachers while simultenously holding down their own responsibiltiies, which seem to grow every year to impossible heights. They take on higher courseloads as parents demand having their children transferred to the stronger teacher's class. I've watched scores of strong teachers leave my school in the past 5 years, and I'm thinking of following. We can only "do it for the kids" for so long because we are sacrificing our own mental health and our own families.

These are the teachers you need to target and keep. How? I'd say you first need to hold the inadequate teachers accountable, document their inability to do the job, and let them go. The problem is there is nobody left to replace them, so they have a ton of job security right now and they know it. Therefore, increase pay and improve working conditions to create more interest in the profession. That will make me stay, but it will also create an influx of new teachers. I'm happy giving up my newfound job security caused by the current teacher shortage. I know I'm not at risk of being fired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I remember zoom school. The 2nd teacher, aged 27, had tons of misspellings and math errors whilst teaching. I viewed them as a slacker who just wanted a sleeper job. Not like kids are going to do anything, or the school. Schools keep poorly performing teachers all the time.

They ended up quitting to live abroad doing peace corp or something similar. Left in the middle of the school year as well. Very professional.

This right here. Watching almost two years of zoom teaching was horrifying. I didn’t have great expectations, but the level of educators was eye opening, cringeworthy and out right awful. I had no idea the bottom of the barrel MCPS was scraping! And this is high school for crying out loud. Shameful.

And nurses in the DMV that work full time 36-48 hours make 6 figures plus. They are not underpaid at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They are NOT underpaid. Supply and demand

The "supply and demand" argument against teachers isn't going to work for much longer. Teachers willing to teach are in short supply nationwide. There are plenty of people with teaching credentials who are now making more money in other professions. The question then becomes what can we do to attract them back to teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't lump the two (teachers and nurses) in together. Teachers are paid quite well in places like FCPS and the bigger school districts for 9 months of work.

Close relative teaches French in Arizona and hets paid 68,000 a year. Not bad considering her husband makes about that too teaching a different subject.

More like 10 months, but who’s counting?

Plus 10 days for spring break, two weeks for Christmas and every holiday known to man. It’s definitely closer to 9 months.

In VA all of the contracts I know of are between 195 and 200 days. Wouldn’t 9 months be more like 180 days?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't lump the two (teachers and nurses) in together. Teachers are paid quite well in places like FCPS and the bigger school districts for 9 months of work.

Close relative teaches French in Arizona and hets paid 68,000 a year. Not bad considering her husband makes about that too teaching a different subject.

More like 10 months, but who’s counting?

Plus 10 days for spring break, two weeks for Christmas and every holiday known to man. It’s definitely closer to 9 months.

The 10 months counts those days off. 9 months would only be about 36 weeks. Teacher contracts are around 40 weeks long, at least in NoVA.

Which district gets two weeks for spring break and two weeks at Christmas?

[Anonymous]

I make about 80 K. I’m not underpaid, but I also don’t have to work 60 hours per week. That would make me underpaid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember zoom school. The 2nd teacher, aged 27, had tons of misspellings and math errors whilst teaching. I viewed them as a slacker who just wanted a sleeper job. Not like kids are going to do anything, or the school. Schools keep poorly performing teachers all the time.

They ended up quitting to live abroad doing peace corp or something similar. Left in the middle of the school year as well. Very professional.

My question to you and the PP is how do we attract and retain those you would consider to be higher quality teachers?

Not the PP, but another teacher. I am comfortable saying I work with some serious slackers. I've watched colleagues plan their lessons 2 minutes before classes arrive, which means they usually resort to Youtube videos and a lot of down time. I've watched colleagues not teach at all, not grade at all, etc. Here's the problem as I see it: many of these teachers are the ones who are staying. Administrators don't fire these teachers, and these teachers care so little that they aren't intimidated by the idea of additional observations, write-ups. At the very worst, they'll get moved from school to school by principals who find transfering teachers easier than firing them. Their pay remains the same.

Strong teachers are the ones working hard and burning out. They are trying to mentor younger teachers while simultenously holding down their own responsibiltiies, which seem to grow every year to impossible heights. They take on higher courseloads as parents demand having their children transferred to the stronger teacher's class. I've watched scores of strong teachers leave my school in the past 5 years, and I'm thinking of following. We can only "do it for the kids" for so long because we are sacrificing our own mental health and our own families.

These are the teachers you need to target and keep. How? I'd say you first need to hold the inadequate teachers accountable, document their inability to do the job, and let them go. The problem is there is nobody left to replace them, so they have a ton of job security right now and they know it. Therefore, increase pay and improve working conditions to create more interest in the profession. That will make me stay, but it will also create an influx of new teachers. I'm happy giving up my newfound job security caused by the current teacher shortage. I know I'm not at risk of being fired.

I teach third grade. My students and my administrators would eat me alive if I tried to do that. I don’t know anyone who can pull that off and this is my 30th year. I’m constantly trying to pull together and implement math, reading and writing workshops. Science takes a lot of prep. There is so much to juggle and never enough time to do it all.

[Anonymous]

You really need to ask? Traditionally female, jobs that involve care (traditional mothering). Equates to undervalued.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember zoom school. The 2nd teacher, aged 27, had tons of misspellings and math errors whilst teaching. I viewed them as a slacker who just wanted a sleeper job. Not like kids are going to do anything, or the school. Schools keep poorly performing teachers all the time.

They ended up quitting to live abroad doing peace corp or something similar. Left in the middle of the school year as well. Very professional.

My question to you and the PP is how do we attract and retain those you would consider to be higher quality teachers?

Not the PP, but another teacher. I am comfortable saying I work with some serious slackers. I've watched colleagues plan their lessons 2 minutes before classes arrive, which means they usually resort to Youtube videos and a lot of down time. I've watched colleagues not teach at all, not grade at all, etc. Here's the problem as I see it: many of these teachers are the ones who are staying. Administrators don't fire these teachers, and these teachers care so little that they aren't intimidated by the idea of additional observations, write-ups. At the very worst, they'll get moved from school to school by principals who find transfering teachers easier than firing them. Their pay remains the same.

Strong teachers are the ones working hard and burning out. They are trying to mentor younger teachers while simultenously holding down their own responsibiltiies, which seem to grow every year to impossible heights. They take on higher courseloads as parents demand having their children transferred to the stronger teacher's class. I've watched scores of strong teachers leave my school in the past 5 years, and I'm thinking of following. We can only "do it for the kids" for so long because we are sacrificing our own mental health and our own families.

These are the teachers you need to target and keep. How? I'd say you first need to hold the inadequate teachers accountable, document their inability to do the job, and let them go. The problem is there is nobody left to replace them, so they have a ton of job security right now and they know it. Therefore, increase pay and improve working conditions to create more interest in the profession. That will make me stay, but it will also create an influx of new teachers. I'm happy giving up my newfound job security caused by the current teacher shortage. I know I'm not at risk of being fired.

I teach third grade. My students and my administrators would eat me alive if I tried to do that. I don’t know anyone who can pull that off and this is my 30th year. I’m constantly trying to pull together and implement math, reading and writing workshops. Science takes a lot of prep. There is so much to juggle and never enough time to do it all.

Then it sounds like you aren’t one of these inadequate teachers. You want to be prepared for your students and do what you need to do. Yes, there is so much to juggle and never enough time… if you are a conscientious teacher. As for the ones “pulling it off,” as you say, they aren’t actually doing so successfully. They are the reason DCUM parents can complain about poor teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers in FFX County start around $53K. That seems like a fine starting wage for a college grad. Even better considering time off in the summer.

Teachers get the summer off. They work less days a year than other professions. I get 26 days of leave a year pkus holidays. A teacher gets triple.

Your leave is paid though. For 2 months the teachers are not paid. Now, they are free to get a second job during that time to make money.

I don't think teachers are paid enough for what we expect of them though. I taught college before and that was tough enough, with just a couple hours a day and kids that wanted to be there. I can't imagine taking on a classroom of students for 6 hours every day.

[Anonymous]

Nurses and teachers are way underpaid.

120k was starting salary for 2023 undergraduates in many business and IT majors