SCANDAL: Hillsdale College President says URM become teachers because they can’t hack anything else

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a teacher. She was valedictorian in high school. Graduated summa cum laude from both high school and college. National Merit Scholar. Full merit scholarship in college. Master of Education in Applied Behavior Analysis. She has many, many colleagues with similar stats. I doubt any of her parents know how brilliant she is. They just know she is a great teachers with a passion for helping children with autism become their highest and best selves. And she loves her kids so much.

This is wonderful and I'm sure she is a huge asset to the profession, but unfortunately, she and her colleagues are the exceptions, not the rule.

Just look at who majors in "elementary education" or the like at any state university in the country.

[Anonymous]

Criticizing the rigor of a major is a strong take from a university president with a history major. It's interesting that he used physics as a comparison and not his own field of study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a teacher. She was valedictorian in high school. Graduated summa cum laude from both high school and college. National Merit Scholar. Full merit scholarship in college. Master of Education in Applied Behavior Analysis. She has many, many colleagues with similar stats. I doubt any of her parents know how brilliant she is. They just know she is a great teachers with a passion for helping children with autism become their highest and best selves. And she loves her kids so much.

Psychology majors don't get many good options.
A lot of girls end up choosing it because it's relatively easy and sounds like something.

Clinical psychology PhD programs are insanely competitive, even more so than medical school. My daughter is starting at one that is ranked something like 150 on USNews, so NOT a top program by any means...they accepted 3 students this year of 140 applicants.

That's one of the better route, and you would need PhD in order to make something decent out of it.
However even with that, going through all that education accumulating huge debt and becoming a 'Psychologist(PhD), the average income is relatively shitty

If you are from an affluent family and really like the field, it would be a good fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say that among doctoral programs, EdD's are generally less respected, in that the research requirement is less rigorous (their journals also tend to set a lower bar). This is true of many fields though (including Physical Therapy, Nursing, Management/Policy).

It is all relative.

Isn’t it interesting how these are all women dominated fields…. Hmm… what a coincidence!

+1. All of the hate on teachers is just the usual misogyny and devaluing of work that is more often done by women. There are plenty of male dominated fields which are not especially competitive which do not draw the same criticisms as teaching.

I (PP) was commenting on the rigor of different doctoral programs, not commenting on teaching as a field (most teachers never earn doctoral degrees).

Jobs traditionally held by women, including caregiving, are traditionally undervalued and under-rewarded. This is due to sexism but also the fact that capitalist nations value money/profit over people/social good (such as educating the next generation of citizens). I do not agree with this.

It’s not just “caregiving,” I see so many careers that just happen to become devalued as women become a majority/plurality. Look at physicians who are pediatricians/general practitioners. Magically, once these jobs became dominated by women, they became devalued. It’s like magic!

No sh#T Sherlock. This is widely documented. And your example is caregiving.

People who inject Botox make much more than people who test kids for strep throat. It is about valuing profits over children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a teacher. She was valedictorian in high school. Graduated summa cum laude from both high school and college. National Merit Scholar. Full merit scholarship in college. Master of Education in Applied Behavior Analysis. She has many, many colleagues with similar stats. I doubt any of her parents know how brilliant she is. They just know she is a great teachers with a passion for helping children with autism become their highest and best selves. And she loves her kids so much.

This is wonderful and I'm sure she is a huge asset to the profession, but unfortunately, she and her colleagues are the exceptions, not the rule.

Just look at who majors in "elementary education" or the like at any state university in the country.

The thing is that states with good education systems generally have teachers major in their content area and then complete the licensure requirements. SO when you look at the backgrounds of education majors you are often looking at the weaker K-12 systems and the weaker students--not who represents the teachers. Many states the vast majority of teachers are not education majors in undergrad. So this is looking at a small distorted sample.

And then when you look at graduate school data, yes those who get master's in education are often somewhat lower than other fields in terms of GRE scores, but that's because everyone who wants to be a teacher typically has to get the master's whereas in other fields it's only those who are particularly interested in graduate school who are attending. The English major who gets a MA in literature because they want to do a PhD is different than the English major who gets an M.Ed. to get their teaching license and required master's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a teacher. She was valedictorian in high school. Graduated summa cum laude from both high school and college. National Merit Scholar. Full merit scholarship in college. Master of Education in Applied Behavior Analysis. She has many, many colleagues with similar stats. I doubt any of her parents know how brilliant she is. They just know she is a great teachers with a passion for helping children with autism become their highest and best selves. And she loves her kids so much.

This is wonderful and I'm sure she is a huge asset to the profession, but unfortunately, she and her colleagues are the exceptions, not the rule.

Just look at who majors in "elementary education" or the like at any state university in the country.

The thing is that states with good education systems generally have teachers major in their content area and then complete the licensure requirements. SO when you look at the backgrounds of education majors you are often looking at the weaker K-12 systems and the weaker students--not who represents the teachers. Many states the vast majority of teachers are not education majors in undergrad. So this is looking at a small distorted sample.

And then when you look at graduate school data, yes those who get master's in education are often somewhat lower than other fields in terms of GRE scores, but that's because everyone who wants to be a teacher typically has to get the master's whereas in other fields it's only those who are particularly interested in graduate school who are attending. The English major who gets a MA in literature because they want to do a PhD is different than the English major who gets an M.Ed. to get their teaching license and required master's.

cite? and what "content area" does an elementary teacher major in? I've never heard of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait I read your link and I don't see your subject line claim supported: where does it say *URM* become teachers because they are less talented?

The selective use of quotations was a dead giveaway on the dubious nature of OP's claims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say that among doctoral programs, EdD's are generally less respected, in that the research requirement is less rigorous (their journals also tend to set a lower bar). This is true of many fields though (including Physical Therapy, Nursing, Management/Policy).

It is all relative.

Isn’t it interesting how these are all women dominated fields…. Hmm… what a coincidence!

+1. All of the hate on teachers is just the usual misogyny and devaluing of work that is more often done by women. There are plenty of male dominated fields which are not especially competitive which do not draw the same criticisms as teaching.

I (PP) was commenting on the rigor of different doctoral programs, not commenting on teaching as a field (most teachers never earn doctoral degrees).

Jobs traditionally held by women, including caregiving, are traditionally undervalued and under-rewarded. This is due to sexism but also the fact that capitalist nations value money/profit over people/social good (such as educating the next generation of citizens). I do not agree with this.

It’s not just “caregiving,” I see so many careers that just happen to become devalued as women become a majority/plurality. Look at physicians who are pediatricians/general practitioners. Magically, once these jobs became dominated by women, they became devalued. It’s like magic!

No sh#T Sherlock. This is widely documented. And your example is caregiving.

People who inject Botox make much more than people who test kids for strep throat. It is about valuing profits over children.

Why so rude? And no, being a physician was not considered “caregiving” when men were doing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a teacher. She was valedictorian in high school. Graduated summa cum laude from both high school and college. National Merit Scholar. Full merit scholarship in college. Master of Education in Applied Behavior Analysis. She has many, many colleagues with similar stats. I doubt any of her parents know how brilliant she is. They just know she is a great teachers with a passion for helping children with autism become their highest and best selves. And she loves her kids so much.

This is wonderful and I'm sure she is a huge asset to the profession, but unfortunately, she and her colleagues are the exceptions, not the rule.

Just look at who majors in "elementary education" or the like at any state university in the country.

The thing is that states with good education systems generally have teachers major in their content area and then complete the licensure requirements. SO when you look at the backgrounds of education majors you are often looking at the weaker K-12 systems and the weaker students--not who represents the teachers. Many states the vast majority of teachers are not education majors in undergrad. So this is looking at a small distorted sample.

And then when you look at graduate school data, yes those who get master's in education are often somewhat lower than other fields in terms of GRE scores, but that's because everyone who wants to be a teacher typically has to get the master's whereas in other fields it's only those who are particularly interested in graduate school who are attending. The English major who gets a MA in literature because they want to do a PhD is different than the English major who gets an M.Ed. to get their teaching license and required master's.

cite? and what "content area" does an elementary teacher major in? I've never heard of this.

Up until recently, there were no undergraduate education majors allowed in Virginia. Elementary teachers would major in a wide range of majors--English, History, Math, Science, Psychology whatever and do their licensure requirements post-BAC. Because of the shortage in the past couple years they have started having elementary education majors.

[Anonymous]

This is really sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a teacher. She was valedictorian in high school. Graduated summa cum laude from both high school and college. National Merit Scholar. Full merit scholarship in college. Master of Education in Applied Behavior Analysis. She has many, many colleagues with similar stats. I doubt any of her parents know how brilliant she is. They just know she is a great teachers with a passion for helping children with autism become their highest and best selves. And she loves her kids so much.

This is wonderful and I'm sure she is a huge asset to the profession, but unfortunately, she and her colleagues are the exceptions, not the rule.

Just look at who majors in "elementary education" or the like at any state university in the country.

What do they look like, and why does that bother you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say that among doctoral programs, EdD's are generally less respected, in that the research requirement is less rigorous (their journals also tend to set a lower bar). This is true of many fields though (including Physical Therapy, Nursing, Management/Policy).

It is all relative.

Isn’t it interesting how these are all women dominated fields…. Hmm… what a coincidence!

+1. All of the hate on teachers is just the usual misogyny and devaluing of work that is more often done by women. There are plenty of male dominated fields which are not especially competitive which do not draw the same criticisms as teaching.

I (PP) was commenting on the rigor of different doctoral programs, not commenting on teaching as a field (most teachers never earn doctoral degrees).

Jobs traditionally held by women, including caregiving, are traditionally undervalued and under-rewarded. This is due to sexism but also the fact that capitalist nations value money/profit over people/social good (such as educating the next generation of citizens). I do not agree with this.

It’s not just “caregiving,” I see so many careers that just happen to become devalued as women become a majority/plurality. Look at physicians who are pediatricians/general practitioners. Magically, once these jobs became dominated by women, they became devalued. It’s like magic!

Happening to veterinarians, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say that among doctoral programs, EdD's are generally less respected, in that the research requirement is less rigorous (their journals also tend to set a lower bar). This is true of many fields though (including Physical Therapy, Nursing, Management/Policy).

It is all relative.

Isn’t it interesting how these are all women dominated fields…. Hmm… what a coincidence!

+1. All of the hate on teachers is just the usual misogyny and devaluing of work that is more often done by women. There are plenty of male dominated fields which are not especially competitive which do not draw the same criticisms as teaching.

I (PP) was commenting on the rigor of different doctoral programs, not commenting on teaching as a field (most teachers never earn doctoral degrees).

Jobs traditionally held by women, including caregiving, are traditionally undervalued and under-rewarded. This is due to sexism but also the fact that capitalist nations value money/profit over people/social good (such as educating the next generation of citizens). I do not agree with this.

It’s not just “caregiving,” I see so many careers that just happen to become devalued as women become a majority/plurality. Look at physicians who are pediatricians/general practitioners. Magically, once these jobs became dominated by women, they became devalued. It’s like magic!

Happening to veterinarians, too.

Also to research work at universities/associate professorships, I suspect even law with certain “mommy track” positions- everything associated with women dies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a teacher. She was valedictorian in high school. Graduated summa cum laude from both high school and college. National Merit Scholar. Full merit scholarship in college. Master of Education in Applied Behavior Analysis. She has many, many colleagues with similar stats. I doubt any of her parents know how brilliant she is. They just know she is a great teachers with a passion for helping children with autism become their highest and best selves. And she loves her kids so much.

This is wonderful and I'm sure she is a huge asset to the profession, but unfortunately, she and her colleagues are the exceptions, not the rule.

Just look at who majors in "elementary education" or the like at any state university in the country.

The thing is that states with good education systems generally have teachers major in their content area and then complete the licensure requirements. SO when you look at the backgrounds of education majors you are often looking at the weaker K-12 systems and the weaker students--not who represents the teachers. Many states the vast majority of teachers are not education majors in undergrad. So this is looking at a small distorted sample.

And then when you look at graduate school data, yes those who get master's in education are often somewhat lower than other fields in terms of GRE scores, but that's because everyone who wants to be a teacher typically has to get the master's whereas in other fields it's only those who are particularly interested in graduate school who are attending. The English major who gets a MA in literature because they want to do a PhD is different than the English major who gets an M.Ed. to get their teaching license and required master's.

cite? and what "content area" does an elementary teacher major in? I've never heard of this.

Up until recently, there were no undergraduate education majors allowed in Virginia. Elementary teachers would major in a wide range of majors--English, History, Math, Science, Psychology whatever and do their licensure requirements post-BAC. Because of the shortage in the past couple years they have started having elementary education majors.

they could major in anything they wanted not "a content area"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a teacher who majored in a STEM subject and came to teaching later.
I wouldn’t blame the teachers. I have had to take a bunch of graduate education classes and yes, they are not very useful and much easier than my college STEM and humanities classes. I blame the way education is set up in the US. Education departments at Universities are mostly lame and trying to keep themselves in business by rallying for onerous certification requirements for teachers. And university education professors are always touting the next big thing that will transform education and districts lap it up because they are under so much pressure to close the achievement gap. Education in this country is way too political. Instead teachers should be paid more and one of the requirements should be to major in a subject that you want to teach. Followed by a 1 year education masters.

+1 Everything you say here is consistent with my experience and I agree 100% about the importance of a bachelor's in a subject rather than in education. The 5 year plan you describe would be ideal. I'm a school librarian who came from an academic library background. My library science courses were far easier than the courses for my MA in anthropology (which is probably less challenging than a degree in say, economics), but the education courses I have taken make the MLS courses look rigorous.