Moderate conservative immigrant family moving from Fairfax VA to Mountain View CA

[Anonymous]

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There are many families just like yours in MV. I haven't heard of any teacher obligating asking of pronouns, but some kids probably offer them. The population is very diverse. This $1k obligatory donation PP is talking about is completely untrue. I do not think they say the pledge of allegiance in the classrooms but I think that has been true for many years afaik (like since the 90s). There aren't rainbow flags in classrooms by policy, but it is possible individual teachers may have one (I have no idea why you would be so triggered by that, though, and I'm doubting the resiliency of you and your kids with that comment).

I don't want to reply to that "resiliency" comment, but what I do want to know is if I get a teacher putting the rainbow flag besides the American flag in the classroom, will I be able to report this to the principal and have the flag taken down? At least here in Fairfax, things are somewhat moderate and we are generally ok with the public school system.
Again I don't want to discuss about my family's values and beliefs, we are who we are. I just don't want to get my kids into an ultra-progressive public school system which is not consistent with our values.

PP who suggested you go to the eastern and inland areas of the BA again. I'm not interested in arguing with you about your politics. I am an expert on California's political climate though and have written many papers and books on the state and on Silicon Valley, in particular. I have lived in the Bay Area and in DC for over three decades.

Based on what you just stated, the places where you would want to live in California will be mostly in the inland, north, and far southeast areas of the state. (Santa Cruz, which you suggested is literally the opposite of the kind of community you seek.) The southern portions of San Jose/Gilroy will be more in your price range, but they aren't especially safe areas and the politics there aren't as conservative as you would like. To the extent they are conservative, at least some portion of that conservatism is anti-immigrant, which would not really help you.

Also, FYI - you say you consider yourself a moderate conservative, but in California most moderate conservatives embrace LGBT rights. By California standards, you are not moderate. You are conservative, full stop. I'm not saying this to insult you, but to help you understand how to find what you want.

FWIW - There are very few places in the Bay Area where even the conservatives would freak out about the presence of a rainbow flag in a classroom. (Frankly, I think that your views aren't even as accepted as you might believe in Fairfax.) I can't think of a single community in the Bay Area where a parent could demand something like that - e.g., take down a rainbow flag - without it turning into a major fight that you would most likely lose.

That said, I think you can find communities here where the liberal politics aren't as "in your face," where the schools are excellent, and where immigrants are welcome. For that, I repeat my recommendation to go through the tunnel to the Lamorinda area (Orinda, Lafayette, Walnut Creek, Danville, etc.). The other place you could go would be outside Sacramento, but that's way too long for commute. You'd also find a similar fit in the Bakersfield/San Joaquin Valley, but that commute is also brutal.

The easy way to do this is to get out a map and look at the counties and cities where Trump won. Those places are where you will most likely find people with views similar to yours, though they may also be anti-immigrant, which is just something you'll have to navigate.

OP here. Thank you for your reply. Yes I don't want to end up in an unsafe, anti-immigrant community. But at the same time, I don't want to end up in a school with the liberal politics "in my kids face" as you stated. And I consider the rainbow flag part of it, as well as BLM etc. I don't care about lgbt rights, I just don't want my kids brainwashed with these stuff.
Not sure about if such area exists there. But all I care is about schools. And I don't want to be part of a "culture war", I just want a quiet and safe life for me and my family.

A 1hr commute would be acceptable for me, as I will be only going to SV twice per week or so. I've been to Sacramento and it's a very nice city, although I'm not sure if it satisfies my standards..

If you are so sensitive to the mere sight of a rainbow flag that you would immediately run to the principal, you are indeed looking to be part of a culture war. Rainbow flags are all over this state, including in deep red, state of Jefferson areas that usually hate immigrants. You are in for a rough time.

I am positive you will find occasional classrooms in the Sacramento area with rainbow flags.

I'm talking about such flags in the classroom. So far haven't encountered such a situation in Fairfax, and haven't heard about such things from other parents here.

Sorry just saw Sacramento is 2hrs, so that's a bit too much.

Yes, I understand, and I'm telling you, you are too sensitive to flourish in California.

+1 I have to agree. I'm not progressive uber liberal, but if a rainbow flag in a school to show support for lgbtq is going to trigger you, I don't think liberal areas like SV is for you.

What if OP your kid turns out to be gay? Will you disown them?

I'm also an immigrant, conservative family, but my family would never disown a family member for being gay.

OP here. I never said that I will disown a gay or anything like that. But I consider having a rainbow flag or a BLM flag in the classroom not appropriate. Only the American flag should be in the classroom. If I had a teacher bringing liberal political symbols into the classroom, I would send my kid with a MAGA or an all lives matter T-shirt at school (never voted for Trump, after all I don't have voting rights in the US). I never got into such situations in Fairfax schools. If I am guaranteed to face this stuff in CA, I'd rather pass the offer.

Good idea. Do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
OP, you've got 3 pages of people telling you not to move to CA.

1. The money will not go as far as you think.
2. The public schools are not good, even in wealthy areas. Great Schools is relative within a state, so a school that is a "9" in CA would not be a "9" here.
3. You are looking for a community that hates the things you hate but doesn't hate you: you aren't going to find it there.

This is it exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Some others have responded to our exchange, but I'm the pp you were responding too. It sounds like what you really don't want is to be part of the extremely polarized and contentious debates occurring across the United States - often in school board meetings - at this moment in history. These fierce debates, whether they're about BLM, banning books, masks or whatever, are everywhere right now. Your comments suggest, though you may not perhaps intend this, that you perceive these contentious fights to be happening primarily in liberal communities, like that of San Francisco. But that's just not true. Plenty of conservative communities are roiling too. You can't avoid the culture wars by avoiding liberals.

Whether you find your life experience peaceful or not is really going to be about the decisions you make, just as it is in Virginia. Don't engage if people try to pull you into some local battle about BLM or what books to ban this week. If you want a "quiet and safe life" then have one.

I'm not suggesting that this is happening only in liberal communities. I see it happening here in Fairfax, which I think it is considered "more moderate" compared to SF Bay area. As an immigrant, I am staying out of these polarized debates. I consider my family having a "quiet and safe life" here in Fairfax.

However, my family has certain conservative values, and I don't want to be part of a community where my values are not respected (or ostracize me to Fresno as someone above wrote). Having my kids being taught that BLM and that they should tell their pronouns, would mean that I would have to tell them that ALM and never say their pronouns, and I don't want to go into this slippery slope. And I think Fairfax schools still maintain some balance with respect to these issues.

I was also reading some other posts here in this Bay Area subforum, about prop 13, underfunded schools, SF Bay not being much family-friendly etc. so overall I'm getting convinced that moving there is not a good thing for me and my family, especially since a $200K - $250K income there is considered low, and as many have said, public education quality is much lower than NoVA. Would like to hear a positive argument for me moving there though!

Anonymous wrote:Idk about privilege bingo. I don’t think people would really care much. They might roll their eyes. School politics are less fraught than in VA, at least that’s my impression from California. My kids have never had a privilege bingo but I would not care if they did.

You likely will not get into any good private schools. Not because of being conservative, but because they are so competitive.

This is the "privilege bingo" story I was talking about
https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/privilege-bingo-in-fairfax-co-class-meets-controversy-after-it-includes-being-a-military-kid/2942443/
FCPS apologized for this.
Do you think this would be acceptable in SV schools? Or maybe just nobody would raise an issue in the first place because such things are considered "normal" to be taught there?

PP again. I honestly think the schools are going to be way less of an issue for you than your income. And the schools here aren't worse than in VA. As with all schools, it depends on the district and the school. Virginia has about 2,000 schools and California has over 10,000. Most of what makes a school "bad" is poverty, which with 40 million people, California has a lot of. The top schools in California are easily as good as the top schools anywhere in the US. (This is a case where comparing averages is really misleading due to the differences in scale between California and other US states.)

I have no idea if anyone has tried privilege bingo (ever) in (any) SV school. California public schools teach the curriculum provided by the district. You'd have to look at the schools you are considering to find out what they use. I really don't think the official curriculum is that politically charged. But your kids will be going to school with other kids who are themselves passionate about various political issues - just as is true in Fairfax. That's where most of the exposure to other ideas will come, not the classroom.

That said, the people at my church identify their pronouns during Zoom Bible study. The same openness that makes California so welcoming to immigrants is part of a culture of openness that would respond with what I would consider politeness to someone who wants to be a "they." The pp who noted the strong libertarian streak in the Bay Area is absolutely right. We are very much live and let live. If you want to be a "she" or a "he," then fine. But that also means being fine if someone else wants to be a "they." If that is really too much for you to stomach, then don't move to the Bay Area.

I really think you'd be fine though, with the politics and the schools. Your income is the much, much bigger problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Some others have responded to our exchange, but I'm the pp you were responding too. It sounds like what you really don't want is to be part of the extremely polarized and contentious debates occurring across the United States - often in school board meetings - at this moment in history. These fierce debates, whether they're about BLM, banning books, masks or whatever, are everywhere right now. Your comments suggest, though you may not perhaps intend this, that you perceive these contentious fights to be happening primarily in liberal communities, like that of San Francisco. But that's just not true. Plenty of conservative communities are roiling too. You can't avoid the culture wars by avoiding liberals.

Whether you find your life experience peaceful or not is really going to be about the decisions you make, just as it is in Virginia. Don't engage if people try to pull you into some local battle about BLM or what books to ban this week. If you want a "quiet and safe life" then have one.

I'm not suggesting that this is happening only in liberal communities. I see it happening here in Fairfax, which I think it is considered "more moderate" compared to SF Bay area. As an immigrant, I am staying out of these polarized debates. I consider my family having a "quiet and safe life" here in Fairfax.

However, my family has certain conservative values, and I don't want to be part of a community where my values are not respected (or ostracize me to Fresno as someone above wrote). Having my kids being taught that BLM and that they should tell their pronouns, would mean that I would have to tell them that ALM and never say their pronouns, and I don't want to go into this slippery slope. And I think Fairfax schools still maintain some balance with respect to these issues.

I was also reading some other posts here in this Bay Area subforum, about prop 13, underfunded schools, SF Bay not being much family-friendly etc. so overall I'm getting convinced that moving there is not a good thing for me and my family, especially since a $200K - $250K income there is considered low, and as many have said, public education quality is much lower than NoVA. Would like to hear a positive argument for me moving there though!

Anonymous wrote:Idk about privilege bingo. I don’t think people would really care much. They might roll their eyes. School politics are less fraught than in VA, at least that’s my impression from California. My kids have never had a privilege bingo but I would not care if they did.

You likely will not get into any good private schools. Not because of being conservative, but because they are so competitive.

This is the "privilege bingo" story I was talking about
https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/privilege-bingo-in-fairfax-co-class-meets-controversy-after-it-includes-being-a-military-kid/2942443/
FCPS apologized for this.
Do you think this would be acceptable in SV schools? Or maybe just nobody would raise an issue in the first place because such things are considered "normal" to be taught there?

PP again. I honestly think the schools are going to be way less of an issue for you than your income. And the schools here aren't worse than in VA. As with all schools, it depends on the district and the school. Virginia has about 2,000 schools and California has over 10,000. Most of what makes a school "bad" is poverty, which with 40 million people, California has a lot of. The top schools in California are easily as good as the top schools anywhere in the US. (This is a case where comparing averages is really misleading due to the differences in scale between California and other US states.)

I have no idea if anyone has tried privilege bingo (ever) in (any) SV school. California public schools teach the curriculum provided by the district. You'd have to look at the schools you are considering to find out what they use. I really don't think the official curriculum is that politically charged. But your kids will be going to school with other kids who are themselves passionate about various political issues - just as is true in Fairfax. That's where most of the exposure to other ideas will come, not the classroom.

That said, the people at my church identify their pronouns during Zoom Bible study. The same openness that makes California so welcoming to immigrants is part of a culture of openness that would respond with what I would consider politeness to someone who wants to be a "they." The pp who noted the strong libertarian streak in the Bay Area is absolutely right. We are very much live and let live. If you want to be a "she" or a "he," then fine. But that also means being fine if someone else wants to be a "they." If that is really too much for you to stomach, then don't move to the Bay Area.

I really think you'd be fine though, with the politics and the schools. Your income is the much, much bigger problem.

The problem is that OP is the exact opposite of the bolded. OP wants to call the manager if his kids see something he doesn’t agree with. That might fly in VA, but it won’t fly in CA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Some others have responded to our exchange, but I'm the pp you were responding too. It sounds like what you really don't want is to be part of the extremely polarized and contentious debates occurring across the United States - often in school board meetings - at this moment in history. These fierce debates, whether they're about BLM, banning books, masks or whatever, are everywhere right now. Your comments suggest, though you may not perhaps intend this, that you perceive these contentious fights to be happening primarily in liberal communities, like that of San Francisco. But that's just not true. Plenty of conservative communities are roiling too. You can't avoid the culture wars by avoiding liberals.

Whether you find your life experience peaceful or not is really going to be about the decisions you make, just as it is in Virginia. Don't engage if people try to pull you into some local battle about BLM or what books to ban this week. If you want a "quiet and safe life" then have one.

I'm not suggesting that this is happening only in liberal communities. I see it happening here in Fairfax, which I think it is considered "more moderate" compared to SF Bay area. As an immigrant, I am staying out of these polarized debates. I consider my family having a "quiet and safe life" here in Fairfax.

However, my family has certain conservative values, and I don't want to be part of a community where my values are not respected (or ostracize me to Fresno as someone above wrote). Having my kids being taught that BLM and that they should tell their pronouns, would mean that I would have to tell them that ALM and never say their pronouns, and I don't want to go into this slippery slope. And I think Fairfax schools still maintain some balance with respect to these issues.

I was also reading some other posts here in this Bay Area subforum, about prop 13, underfunded schools, SF Bay not being much family-friendly etc. so overall I'm getting convinced that moving there is not a good thing for me and my family, especially since a $200K - $250K income there is considered low, and as many have said, public education quality is much lower than NoVA. Would like to hear a positive argument for me moving there though!

Anonymous wrote:Idk about privilege bingo. I don’t think people would really care much. They might roll their eyes. School politics are less fraught than in VA, at least that’s my impression from California. My kids have never had a privilege bingo but I would not care if they did.

You likely will not get into any good private schools. Not because of being conservative, but because they are so competitive.

This is the "privilege bingo" story I was talking about
https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/privilege-bingo-in-fairfax-co-class-meets-controversy-after-it-includes-being-a-military-kid/2942443/
FCPS apologized for this.
Do you think this would be acceptable in SV schools? Or maybe just nobody would raise an issue in the first place because such things are considered "normal" to be taught there?

I did an exercise like that in private conservative Catholic school in the 1980s. But my SV kids have never done anything like that. I would not care if they did. Shrug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Some others have responded to our exchange, but I'm the pp you were responding too. It sounds like what you really don't want is to be part of the extremely polarized and contentious debates occurring across the United States - often in school board meetings - at this moment in history. These fierce debates, whether they're about BLM, banning books, masks or whatever, are everywhere right now. Your comments suggest, though you may not perhaps intend this, that you perceive these contentious fights to be happening primarily in liberal communities, like that of San Francisco. But that's just not true. Plenty of conservative communities are roiling too. You can't avoid the culture wars by avoiding liberals.

Whether you find your life experience peaceful or not is really going to be about the decisions you make, just as it is in Virginia. Don't engage if people try to pull you into some local battle about BLM or what books to ban this week. If you want a "quiet and safe life" then have one.

I'm not suggesting that this is happening only in liberal communities. I see it happening here in Fairfax, which I think it is considered "more moderate" compared to SF Bay area. As an immigrant, I am staying out of these polarized debates. I consider my family having a "quiet and safe life" here in Fairfax.

However, my family has certain conservative values, and I don't want to be part of a community where my values are not respected (or ostracize me to Fresno as someone above wrote). Having my kids being taught that BLM and that they should tell their pronouns, would mean that I would have to tell them that ALM and never say their pronouns, and I don't want to go into this slippery slope. And I think Fairfax schools still maintain some balance with respect to these issues.

I was also reading some other posts here in this Bay Area subforum, about prop 13, underfunded schools, SF Bay not being much family-friendly etc. so overall I'm getting convinced that moving there is not a good thing for me and my family, especially since a $200K - $250K income there is considered low, and as many have said, public education quality is much lower than NoVA. Would like to hear a positive argument for me moving there though!

Anonymous wrote:Idk about privilege bingo. I don’t think people would really care much. They might roll their eyes. School politics are less fraught than in VA, at least that’s my impression from California. My kids have never had a privilege bingo but I would not care if they did.

You likely will not get into any good private schools. Not because of being conservative, but because they are so competitive.

This is the "privilege bingo" story I was talking about
https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/privilege-bingo-in-fairfax-co-class-meets-controversy-after-it-includes-being-a-military-kid/2942443/
FCPS apologized for this.
Do you think this would be acceptable in SV schools? Or maybe just nobody would raise an issue in the first place because such things are considered "normal" to be taught there?

PP again. I honestly think the schools are going to be way less of an issue for you than your income. And the schools here aren't worse than in VA. As with all schools, it depends on the district and the school. Virginia has about 2,000 schools and California has over 10,000. Most of what makes a school "bad" is poverty, which with 40 million people, California has a lot of. The top schools in California are easily as good as the top schools anywhere in the US. (This is a case where comparing averages is really misleading due to the differences in scale between California and other US states.)

I have no idea if anyone has tried privilege bingo (ever) in (any) SV school. California public schools teach the curriculum provided by the district. You'd have to look at the schools you are considering to find out what they use. I really don't think the official curriculum is that politically charged. But your kids will be going to school with other kids who are themselves passionate about various political issues - just as is true in Fairfax. That's where most of the exposure to other ideas will come, not the classroom.

That said, the people at my church identify their pronouns during Zoom Bible study. The same openness that makes California so welcoming to immigrants is part of a culture of openness that would respond with what I would consider politeness to someone who wants to be a "they." The pp who noted the strong libertarian streak in the Bay Area is absolutely right. We are very much live and let live. If you want to be a "she" or a "he," then fine. But that also means being fine if someone else wants to be a "they." If that is really too much for you to stomach, then don't move to the Bay Area.

I really think you'd be fine though, with the politics and the schools. Your income is the much, much bigger problem.

I get your point about the income. That's why I am trying to see if there's any possibility in living in a cheaper area which is "commutable" to SV twice per week, and possibly leaving room for a private school. What about Monterey county?

Regarding the privilege bingo thing - I'm not looking if that particular "privilege bingo" is part of a curriculum. I just brought it up as an example of something which was not acceptable in Fairfax, if (hypothetically) existed in SV if it would be acceptable. Based on other's comments it would, and for me this is a no-no.

Regarding pronouns - ok about "they" etc, but is it fine if a kid refuses to identify pronouns? Will that kid be still "welcome", or will it get "ostracized"?

[Anonymous]

I guess OP could live in Salinas and commute twice a week. Idk about education quality but for sure that area will have private religious schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get your point about the income. That's why I am trying to see if there's any possibility in living in a cheaper area which is "commutable" to SV twice per week, and possibly leaving room for a private school. What about Monterey county?

Regarding the privilege bingo thing - I'm not looking if that particular "privilege bingo" is part of a curriculum. I just brought it up as an example of something which was not acceptable in Fairfax, if (hypothetically) existed in SV if it would be acceptable. Based on other's comments it would, and for me this is a no-no.

Regarding pronouns - ok about "they" etc, but is it fine if a kid refuses to identify pronouns? Will that kid be still "welcome", or will it get "ostracized"?

PP again. I'm not super familiar with Monterey. My impression is that it is pretty bifurcated. Lots of very, very poor farmworkers in Salinas and the Carmel/Pebble Beach crowd at the other end of the spectrum. The commute will be very, very long. That 101/1 corridor through Gilroy is total misery to drive. As with anywhere, the best schools are going to be in the wealthier areas. Housing might be moderately more affordable overall? The weather would not appeal to me at all. Lots of gray days. Politically, it's one of the more conservative of our coastal areas, but that's still going to be primarily in the libertarian sense (at least in the wealthy parts). The farmworker crowd tends to be very strong Catholic, strong family ties with traditional values overall, but a lot of the dysfunction of poverty. You could probably find a Maga crowd in Monterey, but you will also have a Gay Pride parade too.

As for kids who don't want to do their pronouns, they will be welcome in in some crowds and ostracized in others, just as happens in any group in any school. It won't be a result of any official school policy, but as I've been saying, the other kids and their interests are going to be where these issues come up. Kids start getting into their cliques in late elementary school. Some join the environmental clubs, others go to church groups, others are in band. Whatever.

[Anonymous]

How old are your kids OP?

[Anonymous]

Sorry, what is objectionable about kids telling other people what pronouns should be used?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP, you've got 3 pages of people telling you not to move to CA.

1. The money will not go as far as you think.
2. The public schools are not good, even in wealthy areas. Great Schools is relative within a state, so a school that is a "9" in CA would not be a "9" here.
3. You are looking for a community that hates the things you hate but doesn't hate you: you aren't going to find it there.

This is it exactly.

For their particular situation, there are probably areas they will fit in, but social conservatism in California is heavily anti immigrant, probably more than its anti lgbt

[Anonymous]

The PP who talked about private schools being more like NY is spot on. It’s late in the year to position your kids for good privates. For many Catholic schools you have to join the parish first for priority admissions so it depends on when you’ll be moving and if you know what church you want to attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I get your point about the income. That's why I am trying to see if there's any possibility in living in a cheaper area which is "commutable" to SV twice per week, and possibly leaving room for a private school. What about Monterey county?

Regarding the privilege bingo thing - I'm not looking if that particular "privilege bingo" is part of a curriculum. I just brought it up as an example of something which was not acceptable in Fairfax, if (hypothetically) existed in SV if it would be acceptable. Based on other's comments it would, and for me this is a no-no.

Regarding pronouns - ok about "they" etc, but is it fine if a kid refuses to identify pronouns? Will that kid be still "welcome", or will it get "ostracized"?

Prepare to spend 4+ hours commuting.

To get to SV from Monterey you have to get through the Santa Cruz mountains.

One day, around 10am on a weekday, go onto google maps, and map from Monterey to SV. See how long google maps is telling you it would take.

A PP had it right.. if you want less liberal, you need to move way further out, which means it's not only cheaper, but the commute will be hell.

Also, CA is looking to slow down math progression which prevents students from taking Alg 1 until they reach HS, so if that's important to you, then be aware. They like to frame it as "harder Algebra 1" in 9th, but this leads to kids doubling math (Alg and Geometry) in order to reach Calc by 12th grade. And yep, it's all in the name of equity.

https://edsource.org/2021/california-math-guidance-sparks-new-curriculum-controversy-among-parents/655272


https://calmatters.org/education/k-12-education/2021/11/california-math/

[Anonymous]

There’s not as much overt anti-immigrant sentiment on Peninsula but there’s one difference that might fly below your radar —homelessness is visible and a part of every day life. If you lived in DC now you might be used to it but coming out of the Virginia suburbs it may be a surprise. Your kids will see it in SF and in the Peninsula suburbs like downtown San Mateo, MV. Mostly harmless but still something that has to be discussed (both in terms of helping others/inequality and also public safety/a child’s anxiety) especially with younger kids. This isn’t a commentary on social policy but a decision for parents on how much you want to shelter your kids.

A suggestion — I’d go out and visit different town to get a feel before making a decision. You’ll get more first hand data. Walk in San Carlos or Burlingame or Pleasanton etc. Also in case you are looking at East Bay, Berkeley is not going to be your cup of tea politically.

[Anonymous]

OP- I make significantly more than you do but am far from rich and am moderate politically but seem more liberal than you are (rainbow flag wouldn’t bother me, making my kids choose pronouns would) and there is no way I would consider this move. From a financial and political comfort level standpoint, this isn’t even a close call.