ACPS now closed for the entire thanksgiving week

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at a weird point where what is best for staff is not what is best for kids. I spoke to my son's teacher in 4th and he said he expected academic loss to be the biggest issue but it's actual social..his 4th grader have the emotional/social skills of 2nd graders. There have been repeated fights in the playground in ES (Kids attacking other kids). My son's tutor teachers 5th and she told me she is having to teach her kids how to interact and communicate with each other. The kids a suffering. They should have take those two days and done intensive therapy for everyone (kidding.. sort of).

Anyway, the point being. Kids need to be in school so they can learn how to be around each other and act appropriately. They need the routine and they need a lot of help. We are in APS But my kids have only had two full weeks of school in 9 weeks (about to be 10). They wi t have another full week until week 12 and then it's Thanksgiving week. Kids are getting the stability they need and they are suffering.

Yes , it is better for staff and for teacher's mental health to have a break. It is likely better for the kids to have more full weeks of school without constant interruption. I dont know how to meet the needs of both parties.

I totally agree with this.

At the end of the day, these are taxpayer funded services and the teachers are hired to do a job. How many of us just don't show up for two days at our jobs and get paid anyway. It's an odd mindset. Imagine if nurses/hospitals did this. It's just another signal that teachers don't see themselves as essential workers. Which they are.

I think significant numbers of Americans have paid leave. What do you do that you didn’t know paid leave exists?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably. I really don't think it's a "decompress" issue as much as it's a "can't find subs because we're paying shit wages" issue, though.

Right I agree. I really think they just need to tell teachers they can't take off though. I mean it is that way in any public facing job. You need coverage. I dont blame teachers for asking, I blame admit for granting. They need to be better/stronger managers.

Treating teachers like crap will help how, exactly?

It is not treating people like crap to tell them that they are unable to get days off if there isn't enough coverage. I work for the federal government. We put in for holidays 6 months in advance. We get off if covered. It is how most jobs work.

They don't have to ban everyone from the day off but they should adjust to staffing. I dont see it as cruel.

I dont mean they should tell them now when it's already been granted. But they should have told people when the days were requested that the day off was subject to obtaining coverage and advised that it might not be possible but that they could request other days.

My mother is a retired teacher from a different county in VA, and she was never allowed to use personal leave on the days immediately preceding or following a holiday.

That’s APS policy as well, though I know coworkers who have done it. I actually hope APS doesn’t do this, I just don’t want to hear more vitriol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at a weird point where what is best for staff is not what is best for kids. I spoke to my son's teacher in 4th and he said he expected academic loss to be the biggest issue but it's actual social..his 4th grader have the emotional/social skills of 2nd graders. There have been repeated fights in the playground in ES (Kids attacking other kids). My son's tutor teachers 5th and she told me she is having to teach her kids how to interact and communicate with each other. The kids a suffering. They should have take those two days and done intensive therapy for everyone (kidding.. sort of).

Anyway, the point being. Kids need to be in school so they can learn how to be around each other and act appropriately. They need the routine and they need a lot of help. We are in APS But my kids have only had two full weeks of school in 9 weeks (about to be 10). They wi t have another full week until week 12 and then it's Thanksgiving week. Kids are getting the stability they need and they are suffering.

Yes , it is better for staff and for teacher's mental health to have a break. It is likely better for the kids to have more full weeks of school without constant interruption. I dont know how to meet the needs of both parties.

I totally agree with this.

At the end of the day, these are taxpayer funded services and the teachers are hired to do a job. How many of us just don't show up for two days at our jobs and get paid anyway. It's an odd mindset. Imagine if nurses/hospitals did this. It's just another signal that teachers don't see themselves as essential workers. Which they are.

I think significant numbers of Americans have paid leave. What do you do that you didn’t know paid leave exists?

At any job where you offer a public service, you don't get to take paid leave whenever you feel like it. There need to be enough people available to provide the public service. That's how it works. Not everyone sits behind a desk at home or has a nice white collar job.

[Anonymous]

I think significant numbers of Americans have paid leave. What do you do that you didn’t know paid leave exists?


At any job where you offer a public service, you don't get to take paid leave whenever you feel like it. There need to be enough people available to provide the public service. That's how it works. Not everyone sits behind a desk at home or has a nice white collar job.

I sit behind a desk at a white collar job and still can't take paid leave whenever i feel like it. We need to have sufficient office coverage, otherwise, our leave requests will be denied.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably. I really don't think it's a "decompress" issue as much as it's a "can't find subs because we're paying shit wages" issue, though.

Right I agree. I really think they just need to tell teachers they can't take off though. I mean it is that way in any public facing job. You need coverage. I dont blame teachers for asking, I blame admit for granting. They need to be better/stronger managers.

Treating teachers like crap will help how, exactly?

It is not treating people like crap to tell them that they are unable to get days off if there isn't enough coverage. I work for the federal government. We put in for holidays 6 months in advance. We get off if covered. It is how most jobs work.

They don't have to ban everyone from the day off but they should adjust to staffing. I dont see it as cruel.

I’m an ES teacher. I have almost 30 years in FCPS and I’ve always known that personal leave could be denied if it adversely affected the school. I think leave should be approved if the teacher has lined up a substitute ahead of time. I can ask understand how it might be denied if you can’t find coverage. I need a few personal days on February so I arranged my substitute in August and got it approved by admin.

[Anonymous]

I don't buy it - you don't have sick leave or family days?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't buy it - you don't have sick leave or family days?

Have you ever had a job? It is not required in most jobs that paid leave is approved. You request it ahead of time and based on the needs of the organization it could be denied for the specific days you asked for. This does not mean you don’t have paid leave. It means you can’t take it whenever you feel like it at all times.

And yes of course you can just be a jerk and call out sick when you’re not really sick. But most people are ethical and feel some sort of an obligation not do to that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably. I really don't think it's a "decompress" issue as much as it's a "can't find subs because we're paying shit wages" issue, though.

Right I agree. I really think they just need to tell teachers they can't take off though. I mean it is that way in any public facing job. You need coverage. I dont blame teachers for asking, I blame admit for granting. They need to be better/stronger managers.

Treating teachers like crap will help how, exactly?

It is not treating people like crap to tell them that they are unable to get days off if there isn't enough coverage. I work for the federal government. We put in for holidays 6 months in advance. We get off if covered. It is how most jobs work.

They don't have to ban everyone from the day off but they should adjust to staffing. I dont see it as cruel.

I dont mean they should tell them now when it's already been granted. But they should have told people when the days were requested that the day off was subject to obtaining coverage and advised that it might not be possible but that they could request other days.

My mother is a retired teacher from a different county in VA, and she was never allowed to use personal leave on the days immediately preceding or following a holiday.

If the teacher has leave available and has arranged for a substitute, why not approve the leave even if it is preceding or following a holiday?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably. I really don't think it's a "decompress" issue as much as it's a "can't find subs because we're paying shit wages" issue, though.

Right I agree. I really think they just need to tell teachers they can't take off though. I mean it is that way in any public facing job. You need coverage. I dont blame teachers for asking, I blame admit for granting. They need to be better/stronger managers.

Treating teachers like crap will help how, exactly?

+100 (not a teacher)

x1000 (a parent)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't buy it - you don't have sick leave or family days?

Have you ever had a job? It is not required in most jobs that paid leave is approved. You request it ahead of time and based on the needs of the organization it could be denied for the specific days you asked for. This does not mean you don’t have paid leave. It means you can’t take it whenever you feel like it at all times.

And yes of course you can just be a jerk and call out sick when you’re not really sick. But most people are ethical and feel some sort of an obligation not do to that.

You're not making sense and taking away from the point of the thread - what exactly is your point again...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably. I really don't think it's a "decompress" issue as much as it's a "can't find subs because we're paying shit wages" issue, though.

Right I agree. I really think they just need to tell teachers they can't take off though. I mean it is that way in any public facing job. You need coverage. I dont blame teachers for asking, I blame admit for granting. They need to be better/stronger managers.

Treating teachers like crap will help how, exactly?

It is not treating people like crap to tell them that they are unable to get days off if there isn't enough coverage. I work for the federal government. We put in for holidays 6 months in advance. We get off if covered. It is how most jobs work.

They don't have to ban everyone from the day off but they should adjust to staffing. I dont see it as cruel.

I dont mean they should tell them now when it's already been granted. But they should have told people when the days were requested that the day off was subject to obtaining coverage and advised that it might not be possible but that they could request other days.

My mother is a retired teacher from a different county in VA, and she was never allowed to use personal leave on the days immediately preceding or following a holiday.

If the teacher has leave available and has arranged for a substitute, why not approve the leave even if it is preceding or following a holiday?

I'm a former sub. Many times I would accept a job request from a specific teacher months in advance, including before breaks. I'd show up at the school on the assigned day, only to be placed in a different classroom because that sub did not show up or someone had an emergency and had to leave right at the beginning of the day. This was really unfair to the teacher who had arranged their own coverage and carefully made sub plans for the day and also to the students. Nowadays everyone in the schools is in constant triage mode because there are very few subs available. There are people who have requested these days off and found their own coverage but the schools are worried that either the subs will cancel at the last minute or no show and there will not be enough existing staff to cover because many schools are already so short-staffed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ACPS Teacher - feel super supported by the district with this and really through out all of the pandemic. Will definitely remember how I was treated compared to other districts. Almost makes up for the insane amount of testing they have sent us to do since the beginning of the year.

(Please don't flame me for my comment - want to have a nice weekend!)

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't buy it - you don't have sick leave or family days?

Have you ever had a job? It is not required in most jobs that paid leave is approved. You request it ahead of time and based on the needs of the organization it could be denied for the specific days you asked for. This does not mean you don’t have paid leave. It means you can’t take it whenever you feel like it at all times.

And yes of course you can just be a jerk and call out sick when you’re not really sick. But most people are ethical and feel some sort of an obligation not do to that.

Ethics are one thing. If you buy plane tickets and have non refundable reservations and are flying out on a day they later don’t approve for personal leave as they always did , you’re gonna call out. This is a staffing issue that will not improve in future years. Public education cannot withstand the assault its under and this is your first sign.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reason number 634,262,825,962 to put your kids in private or religious schools.

Private schools can't get subs either. My sister teaches in a popular Catholic school. They have been doubling up on classes when teachers are sick.

Truth. We live close to a well-attended Catholic school. Several of our neighbors send their children there and I know a handful of the teachers from kids' sports. They are not having an easy time finding subs at all and they pay more than our public district.

But they don't close because of it. Huge difference. They figure it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are at a weird point where what is best for staff is not what is best for kids. I spoke to my son's teacher in 4th and he said he expected academic loss to be the biggest issue but it's actual social..his 4th grader have the emotional/social skills of 2nd graders. There have been repeated fights in the playground in ES (Kids attacking other kids). My son's tutor teachers 5th and she told me she is having to teach her kids how to interact and communicate with each other. The kids a suffering. They should have take those two days and done intensive therapy for everyone (kidding.. sort of).

Anyway, the point being. Kids need to be in school so they can learn how to be around each other and act appropriately. They need the routine and they need a lot of help. We are in APS But my kids have only had two full weeks of school in 9 weeks (about to be 10). They wi t have another full week until week 12 and then it's Thanksgiving week. Kids are getting the stability they need and they are suffering.

Yes , it is better for staff and for teacher's mental health to have a break. It is likely better for the kids to have more full weeks of school without constant interruption. I dont know how to meet the needs of both parties.

To be fair, this is how the schedule is always set up. They pretty rarely have full 5 day weeks. That's as intended, not a pandemic thing or lack of stability.

They call it No School November for a reason. My kids are in HS and it's always been referred to as this. APS