How Harvard discriminates against Asian Americans in college admissions

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not Asian but grew up in a neighborhood with lots of rich asians and had tons of asians work for me over the years. I have been to asia a few times for work.

They really study hard and even their hobbies are work. Piano, Photography, Violin etc. Skilled level, hours and hours and hours of study and thousands in cost.

While I was in Asia at a business meeting my boss almost killed me when I was asked what my hobbies were and I said I like going to football games and, I enjoy going to parks and beaches with my kids.

He was like you need hobbies that impress. You should talk about Art, Opera, Science etc. I was like how about I like fast cars, rock concerts and chicken wings. No does not work that way.

Even going to a restaurant was an ordeal with where to sit, who orders, explanations of food. I am like hey lets grab a burger and beer.

There are definitely cultural differences in values, which may be part of the disconnect in this situation. As a strong academic institution, one would assume Harvard is all about high test scores. But it values different things as well, which may not be understood in a culture that may have different values.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if you people who think tutoring and prepping are bad are also the ones who tout how their schools have a high GPA/SAT score.

See the post 2 above yours. Apparently her kids can tour colleges and take test prep, but, she is upset that someone else's (Asian) kids did too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:low personality scores? That's gotta be one of the most racist factors, ever. Yet, somehow it's OK to tolerate this-- Asians are the victims of discrimination the same way Catholics are bashed on this site. Not acceptable. I'm not Asian.

Personality scores are determined through the interview. That's why students are interviewed. I think it's a fair metric. You can't just go by test scores to admit an entire class. Life is based on personal interaction...not a number.

Appears that the interview scores are higher than what admissions used,so not personal interaction at all. These are kids that will be successful anyway, but, the racial markdown is not at all OK.

The personality score is based on recommendations, essays, and interviews. The interviews are the lowest weighted part. There is no evidence of a racial markdown, just that on average, Asian-Americans had lower scores. And averages tell you nothing about individuals. Asian-Americans as a group had higher extracurricular scores exclusively because they were more likely to participate in math/science clubs and playing musical instruments -- they were less likely to participate in everything else. These aren't activities that give opportunity to demonstrate leadership, empathy, and the other traits the personality score is trying to capture.

Damn what a fantastic analysis. Lets do this for Blacks

There is no evidence of a racial discrimination, just that on average, Blacks tend to commit more crimes. And averages tell you nothing about individuals. Blacks as a group had higher participation in crimes because they were more likely to value gangsterism-- they were less likely to participate in everything else like education. These aren't activities that give opportunity to demonstrate good citizenship, empathy, and the other traits that upright individuals possess.

I think your comment makes your biases perfectly clear and disqualifying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if you people who think tutoring and prepping are bad are also the ones who tout how their schools have a high GPA/SAT score.

It isn't bad. It just isn't distinctive or impressive in any way, and only brings yawns at Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not Asian but grew up in a neighborhood with lots of rich asians and had tons of asians work for me over the years. I have been to asia a few times for work.

They really study hard and even their hobbies are work. Piano, Photography, Violin etc. Skilled level, hours and hours and hours of study and thousands in cost.

While I was in Asia at a business meeting my boss almost killed me when I was asked what my hobbies were and I said I like going to football games and, I enjoy going to parks and beaches with my kids.

He was like you need hobbies that impress. You should talk about Art, Opera, Science etc. I was like how about I like fast cars, rock concerts and chicken wings. No does not work that way.

Even going to a restaurant was an ordeal with where to sit, who orders, explanations of food. I am like hey lets grab a burger and beer.

There are definitely cultural differences in values, which may be part of the disconnect in this situation. As a strong academic institution, one would assume Harvard is all about high test scores. But it values different things as well, which may not be understood in a culture that may have different values.

These are classes differences not cultural ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not Asian but grew up in a neighborhood with lots of rich asians and had tons of asians work for me over the years. I have been to asia a few times for work.

They really study hard and even their hobbies are work. Piano, Photography, Violin etc. Skilled level, hours and hours and hours of study and thousands in cost.

While I was in Asia at a business meeting my boss almost killed me when I was asked what my hobbies were and I said I like going to football games and, I enjoy going to parks and beaches with my kids.

He was like you need hobbies that impress. You should talk about Art, Opera, Science etc. I was like how about I like fast cars, rock concerts and chicken wings. No does not work that way.

Even going to a restaurant was an ordeal with where to sit, who orders, explanations of food. I am like hey lets grab a burger and beer.

There are definitely cultural differences in values, which may be part of the disconnect in this situation. As a strong academic institution, one would assume Harvard is all about high test scores. But it values different things as well, which may not be understood in a culture that may have different values.

These are classes differences not cultural ones.

Perhaps. In what sense do you think that is true?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not Asian but grew up in a neighborhood with lots of rich asians and had tons of asians work for me over the years. I have been to asia a few times for work.

They really study hard and even their hobbies are work. Piano, Photography, Violin etc. Skilled level, hours and hours and hours of study and thousands in cost.

While I was in Asia at a business meeting my boss almost killed me when I was asked what my hobbies were and I said I like going to football games and, I enjoy going to parks and beaches with my kids.

He was like you need hobbies that impress. You should talk about Art, Opera, Science etc. I was like how about I like fast cars, rock concerts and chicken wings. No does not work that way.

Even going to a restaurant was an ordeal with where to sit, who orders, explanations of food. I am like hey lets grab a burger and beer.

There are definitely cultural differences in values, which may be part of the disconnect in this situation. As a strong academic institution, one would assume Harvard is all about high test scores. But it values different things as well, which may not be understood in a culture that may have different values.

These are classes differences not cultural ones.

Perhaps. In what sense do you think that is true?

I would guess that the PP thinks the white guy who likes cars, rock music, chicken wings and beer is 'low class'? Perhaps she thinks that upper class guys don't like cars chicken or beer and spend all their time at the opera?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not Asian but grew up in a neighborhood with lots of rich asians and had tons of asians work for me over the years. I have been to asia a few times for work.

They really study hard and even their hobbies are work. Piano, Photography, Violin etc. Skilled level, hours and hours and hours of study and thousands in cost.

While I was in Asia at a business meeting my boss almost killed me when I was asked what my hobbies were and I said I like going to football games and, I enjoy going to parks and beaches with my kids.

He was like you need hobbies that impress. You should talk about Art, Opera, Science etc. I was like how about I like fast cars, rock concerts and chicken wings. No does not work that way.

Even going to a restaurant was an ordeal with where to sit, who orders, explanations of food. I am like hey lets grab a burger and beer.

There are definitely cultural differences in values, which may be part of the disconnect in this situation. As a strong academic institution, one would assume Harvard is all about high test scores. But it values different things as well, which may not be understood in a culture that may have different values.

These are classes differences not cultural ones.

It is universally known that Jews and Asians place a high value on education so high achievement shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone. Other cultures couldn’t care less about education and likewise their substandard results shouldn’t be surprising. What is surprising is that bureaucrats are misguided enough to think they can socially engineer the latter groups to care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if you people who think tutoring and prepping are bad are also the ones who tout how their schools have a high GPA/SAT score.

It isn't bad. It just isn't distinctive or impressive in any way, and only brings yawns at Harvard.

No one said it was impressive to prep. But some people are saying how test scores aren't everything (which, fine, I can agree with that), but then those same people probably tout how high the SAT/gpas are at their kids' schools, or even the college they went to, implying that they are smart and went to a great school.

Would these same people be fine with sending their kids with a yawn SAT/GPA score? I doubt it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not Asian but grew up in a neighborhood with lots of rich asians and had tons of asians work for me over the years. I have been to asia a few times for work.

They really study hard and even their hobbies are work. Piano, Photography, Violin etc. Skilled level, hours and hours and hours of study and thousands in cost.

While I was in Asia at a business meeting my boss almost killed me when I was asked what my hobbies were and I said I like going to football games and, I enjoy going to parks and beaches with my kids.

He was like you need hobbies that impress. You should talk about Art, Opera, Science etc. I was like how about I like fast cars, rock concerts and chicken wings. No does not work that way.

Even going to a restaurant was an ordeal with where to sit, who orders, explanations of food. I am like hey lets grab a burger and beer.

There are definitely cultural differences in values, which may be part of the disconnect in this situation. As a strong academic institution, one would assume Harvard is all about high test scores. But it values different things as well, which may not be understood in a culture that may have different values.

These are classes differences not cultural ones.

Perhaps. In what sense do you think that is true?

Art, opera, and fine dining are generally considered upper class activities in both the West and Asia. There are plenty of Americans who think it's important to have "impressive" hobbies and would similarly look down on sports and casual foods. (Also, did the pp go to a restaurant in Asia and the locals felt that they had to explain the cuisine to him? Or did they go to a fine dining restaurant where dining etiquette is more formal? In that case, he would have the same problem in the US. )

There are also plenty of Asians who are into sports (soccer), popular music, and would happily eat at a night market or street food place. Sports, pop music, street food are all thriving industries in Asia. That wouldn't be possible if millions of Asians didn't support these industries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:High-achieving Asian-American applicants who play a musical instrument and want to concentrate in a STEM field are a dime a dozen. Kids who fit that profile are competing against one another, and only the ones who are true outliers or offer something else distinctive will gain admission. Harvard offers a liberal arts curriculum at the UG level and consequently looks for an array of disciplinary interests and talents. They are looks for future award-winning anthropologists, authors, artists and history scholars as much as for future doctors and engineers. Statistically, the pool for each of the former categories is less deep.

Right. Many on this thread are not acknowledging the key point that Harvard's interest in diversity pertains to many areas, including field of study. There are only so many STEM kids Harvard will admit. My guess is that any quotas have just as much, or more, to do with this as with race or ethnicity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not Asian but grew up in a neighborhood with lots of rich asians and had tons of asians work for me over the years. I have been to asia a few times for work.

They really study hard and even their hobbies are work. Piano, Photography, Violin etc. Skilled level, hours and hours and hours of study and thousands in cost.

While I was in Asia at a business meeting my boss almost killed me when I was asked what my hobbies were and I said I like going to football games and, I enjoy going to parks and beaches with my kids.

He was like you need hobbies that impress. You should talk about Art, Opera, Science etc. I was like how about I like fast cars, rock concerts and chicken wings. No does not work that way.

Even going to a restaurant was an ordeal with where to sit, who orders, explanations of food. I am like hey lets grab a burger and beer.

There are definitely cultural differences in values, which may be part of the disconnect in this situation. As a strong academic institution, one would assume Harvard is all about high test scores. But it values different things as well, which may not be understood in a culture that may have different values.

These are classes differences not cultural ones.

Perhaps. In what sense do you think that is true?

Art, opera, and fine dining are generally considered upper class activities in both the West and Asia. There are plenty of Americans who think it's important to have "impressive" hobbies and would similarly look down on sports and casual foods. (Also, did the pp go to a restaurant in Asia and the locals felt that they had to explain the cuisine to him? Or did they go to a fine dining restaurant where dining etiquette is more formal? In that case, he would have the same problem in the US. )

There are also plenty of Asians who are into sports (soccer), popular music, and would happily eat at a night market or street food place. Sports, pop music, street food are all thriving industries in Asia. That wouldn't be possible if millions of Asians didn't support these industries.

I guess K-pop popularity was started by "low class" Americans rather than young Asians.

Why is it ok to be obsessed with lax (a pretty much all white sport) and spend lots of time, effort, money on it, but it's not ok to do the same with academics?

[Anonymous]

When I was in Asia was there a few times I was presenting and doing sales calls.

Interesting I could not fill my own drink, order my own food, someone handed me towel in bathroom and people of lower rank carried my briefcase and called my cab.

Your life is often decided in 8th grade. Bad grades off you go to a technical school to be a Janitior. Average grades in HS no college will want you. And you better have a prestigious college and high GPA to get a great job.

The pressure starts elementary school.

I once addressed a group of 200 international Asian MBA students and two actually said "you no study no good yet big job" it was actually a compliment as they wanted to know hiw I did it.

In Asia someone whose resume had a so so college would not be at my level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High-achieving Asian-American applicants who play a musical instrument and want to concentrate in a STEM field are a dime a dozen. Kids who fit that profile are competing against one another, and only the ones who are true outliers or offer something else distinctive will gain admission. Harvard offers a liberal arts curriculum at the UG level and consequently looks for an array of disciplinary interests and talents. They are looks for future award-winning anthropologists, authors, artists and history scholars as much as for future doctors and engineers. Statistically, the pool for each of the former categories is less deep.

Right. Many on this thread are not acknowledging the key point that Harvard's interest in diversity pertains to many areas, including field of study. There are only so many STEM kids Harvard will admit. My guess is that any quotas have just as much, or more, to do with this as with race or ethnicity.

Because every Asian applicant is a future STEM major?
Way to stereotype.