American Women Are Giving Up on Marriage (Wall Street Journal)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s cultural. The culture out there is telling women that they are so amazing and can do it all, which results in them not wanting to settle at all for someone beneath them (whether it be job wise, looks wise, personality wise). Who does? But many of these women’s standards are unrealistic bc there is a super small percentage of men that are equal to them, and they are all competing against each other. If they date someone who is not as great as them, It also causes them to think, why should I sacrifice (a,b,c) for this person. They are just ok. I should wait it out or just be single. Or they stay in these relationships and get mad bc their bfs are not picking up the slack. The guy is automatically on the out list if they are not contributing equally in some way. The bottom line is everyone is uber selfish and wants to put themselves first. Good marriages are compromises of each partner sacrificing at different points in the marriage. That’s what love is- having to sacrifice and take up your partners burden at different points. But finding a good man or women who won’t take advantage of this is hard. Both women and men don’t want to compromise nowadays, because they feel “taken advantages of”, hence women being “done” with marriage.

Given that women are the most taken advantage of, what you are describing is totally rational. Also research tends to show that single women are happy, so the paternalistic notion that they are being somehow tricked into spinsterhood by “the culture” is a transparently false cope by men who are desperate to deny that on the whole, marriage age motherhood do not benefit women with their own economic power.

I assume you mean Irrational.

I found that post very irrational and extremely contradictory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s cultural. The culture out there is telling women that they are so amazing and can do it all, which results in them not wanting to settle at all for someone beneath them (whether it be job wise, looks wise, personality wise).

Who does? But many of these women’s standards are unrealistic bc there is a super small percentage of men that are equal to them, and they are all competing against each other.

If they date someone who is not as great as them, It also causes them to think, why should I sacrifice (a,b,c) for this person. They are just ok. I should wait it out or just be single. Or they stay in these relationships and get mad bc their bfs are not picking up the slack. The guy is automatically on the out list if they are not contributing equally in some way. The bottom line is everyone is uber selfish and wants to put themselves first.

Good marriages are compromises of each partner sacrificing at different points in the marriage. That’s what love is- having to sacrifice and take up your partners burden at different points. But finding a good man or women who won’t take advantage of this is hard. Both women and men don’t want to compromise nowadays, because they feel “taken advantages of”, hence women being “done” with marriage.

Expound on how and why there is only a “super small percentage of suitable men out there”.

Without 2 more sections telling women to put up with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s cultural. The culture out there is telling women that they are so amazing and can do it all, which results in them not wanting to settle at all for someone beneath them (whether it be job wise, looks wise, personality wise). Who does? But many of these women’s standards are unrealistic bc there is a super small percentage of men that are equal to them, and they are all competing against each other. If they date someone who is not as great as them, It also causes them to think, why should I sacrifice (a,b,c) for this person. They are just ok. I should wait it out or just be single. Or they stay in these relationships and get mad bc their bfs are not picking up the slack. The guy is automatically on the out list if they are not contributing equally in some way. The bottom line is everyone is uber selfish and wants to put themselves first. Good marriages are compromises of each partner sacrificing at different points in the marriage. That’s what love is- having to sacrifice and take up your partners burden at different points. But finding a good man or women who won’t take advantage of this is hard. Both women and men don’t want to compromise nowadays, because they feel “taken advantages of”, hence women being “done” with marriage.

Given that women are the most taken advantage of, what you are describing is totally rational. Also research tends to show that single women are happy, so the paternalistic notion that they are being somehow tricked into spinsterhood by “the culture” is a transparently false cope by men who are desperate to deny that on the whole, marriage age motherhood do not benefit women with their own economic power.

I assume you mean Irrational.

I found that post very irrational and extremely contradictory.

right - the rational thing is women deciding that they don’t want to settle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy that women who have never married are focusing on the “unpaid labor” aspect. That’s more of an issue that arises in marriage later on, after kids arrive. I think the likelier explanations are increased working areas, fewer social interactions generally (we see this in studies of Americans having fewer and fewer friendships, some of which would of course lead to romance), economic instability and fewer college educated, emotionally stable and well paid eligible men. More than ever, women are looking for income and education in men.

You don’t think young women grow up in this dynamic? Seeing their working mom slave away while dad does $hit all sitting on the couch? Gmafb. You are not giving women enough credit here. Are you a man?

I’m a woman of a young adult daughter. She and girlfriends absolutely want marriage but they have high standards. They want smart, ambitious, college educated. Guys like that have no problem finding women but there are more women on that category than men.

ie, women have stepped up their game, but men have not. It's why we have incels.

As a mom also of sons - how do we fix this?

Incels are just guys who can’t get laid. About a third are on the spectrum. More than half are left of center politically. About 45 percent are not white. Most are not narcissists or psychopaths (if they were they could figure out how to charm their way to sex) but are instead perpetual victims.

Confusing and conflating these sad sacks with red pill or Andrew Tate types is just like when adults who don’t know better freaked out about gangsta rap or video games.

Lol you just made all this up. Get over yourself, trying to blame this on the left and minorities 😂

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy that women who have never married are focusing on the “unpaid labor” aspect. That’s more of an issue that arises in marriage later on, after kids arrive. I think the likelier explanations are increased working areas, fewer social interactions generally (we see this in studies of Americans having fewer and fewer friendships, some of which would of course lead to romance), economic instability and fewer college educated, emotionally stable and well paid eligible men. More than ever, women are looking for income and education in men.

You don’t think young women grow up in this dynamic? Seeing their working mom slave away while dad does $hit all sitting on the couch? Gmafb. You are not giving women enough credit here. Are you a man?

I’m a woman of a young adult daughter. She and girlfriends absolutely want marriage but they have high standards. They want smart, ambitious, college educated. Guys like that have no problem finding women but there are more women on that category than men.

ie, women have stepped up their game, but men have not. It's why we have incels.

As a mom also of sons - how do we fix this?

Incels are just guys who can’t get laid. About a third are on the spectrum. More than half are left of center politically. About 45 percent are not white. Most are not narcissists or psychopaths (if they were they could figure out how to charm their way to sex) but are instead perpetual victims.

Confusing and conflating these sad sacks with red pill or Andrew Tate types is just like when adults who don’t know better freaked out about gangsta rap or video games.

Lol you just made all this up. Get over yourself, trying to blame this on the left and minorities 😂

Blame guys who can’t get laid on the left and minorities? Thats what the “this” you describe is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy that women who have never married are focusing on the “unpaid labor” aspect. That’s more of an issue that arises in marriage later on, after kids arrive. I think the likelier explanations are increased working areas, fewer social interactions generally (we see this in studies of Americans having fewer and fewer friendships, some of which would of course lead to romance), economic instability and fewer college educated, emotionally stable and well paid eligible men. More than ever, women are looking for income and education in men.

You don’t think young women grow up in this dynamic? Seeing their working mom slave away while dad does $hit all sitting on the couch? Gmafb. You are not giving women enough credit here. Are you a man?

I’m a woman of a young adult daughter. She and girlfriends absolutely want marriage but they have high standards. They want smart, ambitious, college educated. Guys like that have no problem finding women but there are more women on that category than men.

ie, women have stepped up their game, but men have not. It's why we have incels.

As a mom also of sons - how do we fix this?

It is true that more women to go college than men but it isn't true that more women go to top schools in top majors then go to top jobs then men.

I live in Boston, which has way more women college students and grads than men but it's flipped when you actually see it on a major and then firm or (in medicine, specialty) basis.

to mom of sons, my observation in Boston:

have your sons go to a strong school, get on a challenging work out regimen, get their nutrition right so they are well above median height, make sure they are doing strong internships and majors that lead to strong employment outcomes which lead to the remuneration to live comfortably in neighborhoods with high concentrations of eligible women (i.e. it's a lot easier to date when you live comfortably in a nice walkable neighborhood).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those women are not settling for men who are not compatible, full partners. Nothing wrong with that. It sounds like if any of them met the right guy, they'd consider marriage.

But, doesn't that mean men are giving up too? The population of the U.S. is 50.5% female. If they aren't getting married, neither are men. Or is something going wrong with a large portion of the male population making them incompatible marriage partners?

Both genders are becoming increasingly unattractive to the other. You have more men growing up to be directionless incel losers, you have more women becoming fat and having delusional standards.

. . . .

Well put and I agree.

Can everyone see how phones and social media are largely behind these trends?

Social media has definitely been implicated in the whole incel mess (although I believe the number of so-called incels has been blown way out of proportion; there aren’t many of them).

80 to 90% of all dating women focusing on the top 10% of men is the result of dating apps, which instantly allow women to reject any man under 6 feet tall who makes under six-figures ($100,000 per year). The profiles of all those other men are never even seen.

Add to that the well-intentioned movement toward “fat acceptance.” While well-intentioned, it’s used as an excuse for both genders to be unhealthy and unfit, which is exactly the opposite of what FLOTUS Michelle Obama was trying to help us avoid: unhealthy, sedentary lifestyles.

This is a narrative being pushed by red pillers, men. This is not accurate to what most women say. It’s easier to blame women for not liking you for being 5’11” rather than admitting your horrendous personality drove them away.

Dude, Luigi Mangione is 5'11" and we'll all take him.

Luigi got more attention post shooting..he complained about dating. it's well known that murderers get a lot of attention/affection in the right situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those women are not settling for men who are not compatible, full partners. Nothing wrong with that. It sounds like if any of them met the right guy, they'd consider marriage.

But, doesn't that mean men are giving up too? The population of the U.S. is 50.5% female. If they aren't getting married, neither are men. Or is something going wrong with a large portion of the male population making them incompatible marriage partners?

Both genders are becoming increasingly unattractive to the other. You have more men growing up to be directionless incel losers, you have more women becoming fat and having delusional standards.

. . . .

Well put and I agree.

Can everyone see how phones and social media are largely behind these trends?

Social media has definitely been implicated in the whole incel mess (although I believe the number of so-called incels has been blown way out of proportion; there aren’t many of them).

80 to 90% of all dating women focusing on the top 10% of men is the result of dating apps, which instantly allow women to reject any man under 6 feet tall who makes under six-figures ($100,000 per year). The profiles of all those other men are never even seen.

Add to that the well-intentioned movement toward “fat acceptance.” While well-intentioned, it’s used as an excuse for both genders to be unhealthy and unfit, which is exactly the opposite of what FLOTUS Michelle Obama was trying to help us avoid: unhealthy, sedentary lifestyles.

This is a narrative being pushed by red pillers, men. This is not accurate to what most women say. It’s easier to blame women for not liking you for being 5’11” rather than admitting your horrendous personality drove them away.

Dude, Luigi Mangione is 5'11" and we'll all take him.

Luigi got more attention post shooting..he complained about dating. it's well known that murderers get a lot of attention/affection in the right situation.

Agree.
I still can’t tell how big his nose is or his actual speaking style or mannerisms.

What dating stuff did he complain about for him?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s cultural. The culture out there is telling women that they are so amazing and can do it all, which results in them not wanting to settle at all for someone beneath them (whether it be job wise, looks wise, personality wise).

Who does? But many of these women’s standards are unrealistic bc there is a super small percentage of men that are equal to them, and they are all competing against each other.

If they date someone who is not as great as them, It also causes them to think, why should I sacrifice (a,b,c) for this person. They are just ok. I should wait it out or just be single. Or they stay in these relationships and get mad bc their bfs are not picking up the slack. The guy is automatically on the out list if they are not contributing equally in some way. The bottom line is everyone is uber selfish and wants to put themselves first.

Good marriages are compromises of each partner sacrificing at different points in the marriage. That’s what love is- having to sacrifice and take up your partners burden at different points. But finding a good man or women who won’t take advantage of this is hard. Both women and men don’t want to compromise nowadays, because they feel “taken advantages of”, hence women being “done” with marriage.

Expound on how and why there is only a “super small percentage of suitable men out there”.

Without 2 more sections telling women to put up with it.

Busted them!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy that women who have never married are focusing on the “unpaid labor” aspect. That’s more of an issue that arises in marriage later on, after kids arrive. I think the likelier explanations are increased working areas, fewer social interactions generally (we see this in studies of Americans having fewer and fewer friendships, some of which would of course lead to romance), economic instability and fewer college educated, emotionally stable and well paid eligible men. More than ever, women are looking for income and education in men.

You don’t think young women grow up in this dynamic? Seeing their working mom slave away while dad does $hit all sitting on the couch? Gmafb. You are not giving women enough credit here. Are you a man?

I’m a woman of a young adult daughter. She and girlfriends absolutely want marriage but they have high standards. They want smart, ambitious, college educated. Guys like that have no problem finding women but there are more women on that category than men.

ie, women have stepped up their game, but men have not. It's why we have incels.

As a mom also of sons - how do we fix this?

It is true that more women to go college than men but it isn't true that more women go to top schools in top majors then go to top jobs then men.

I live in Boston, which has way more women college students and grads than men but it's flipped when you actually see it on a major and then firm or (in medicine, specialty) basis.

to mom of sons, my observation in Boston:

have your sons go to a strong school, get on a challenging work out regimen, get their nutrition right so they are well above median height, make sure they are doing strong internships and majors that lead to strong employment outcomes which lead to the remuneration to live comfortably in neighborhoods with high concentrations of eligible women (i.e. it's a lot easier to date when you live comfortably in a nice walkable neighborhood).

I’m sorry…but nutrition won’t get your kids above median height if you have two short parents…certainly not well above median height.

Now, malnourishment can kill a growth trajectory…but I doubt anyone on DCUM is malnourishing their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy that women who have never married are focusing on the “unpaid labor” aspect. That’s more of an issue that arises in marriage later on, after kids arrive. I think the likelier explanations are increased working areas, fewer social interactions generally (we see this in studies of Americans having fewer and fewer friendships, some of which would of course lead to romance), economic instability and fewer college educated, emotionally stable and well paid eligible men. More than ever, women are looking for income and education in men.

You don’t think young women grow up in this dynamic? Seeing their working mom slave away while dad does $hit all sitting on the couch? Gmafb. You are not giving women enough credit here. Are you a man?

I’m a woman of a young adult daughter. She and girlfriends absolutely want marriage but they have high standards. They want smart, ambitious, college educated. Guys like that have no problem finding women but there are more women on that category than men.

ie, women have stepped up their game, but men have not. It's why we have incels.

As a mom also of sons - how do we fix this?

It is true that more women to go college than men but it isn't true that more women go to top schools in top majors then go to top jobs then men.

I live in Boston, which has way more women college students and grads than men but it's flipped when you actually see it on a major and then firm or (in medicine, specialty) basis.

to mom of sons, my observation in Boston:

have your sons go to a strong school, get on a challenging work out regimen, get their nutrition right so they are well above median height, make sure they are doing strong internships and majors that lead to strong employment outcomes which lead to the remuneration to live comfortably in neighborhoods with high concentrations of eligible women (i.e. it's a lot easier to date when you live comfortably in a nice walkable neighborhood).

I’m sorry…but nutrition won’t get your kids above median height if you have two short parents…certainly not well above median height.

Now, malnourishment can kill a growth trajectory…but I doubt anyone on DCUM is malnourishing their kids.

A lot of boys aren’t getting the right nutrition stack in the us.

1 gram of protein per pound of body weight daily. The right macros go a long way.

Ok they won’t get to 6’2 but the median American family is not optimizing their diet at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy that women who have never married are focusing on the “unpaid labor” aspect. That’s more of an issue that arises in marriage later on, after kids arrive. I think the likelier explanations are increased working areas, fewer social interactions generally (we see this in studies of Americans having fewer and fewer friendships, some of which would of course lead to romance), economic instability and fewer college educated, emotionally stable and well paid eligible men. More than ever, women are looking for income and education in men.

You don’t think young women grow up in this dynamic? Seeing their working mom slave away while dad does $hit all sitting on the couch? Gmafb. You are not giving women enough credit here. Are you a man?

I’m a woman of a young adult daughter. She and girlfriends absolutely want marriage but they have high standards. They want smart, ambitious, college educated. Guys like that have no problem finding women but there are more women on that category than men.

ie, women have stepped up their game, but men have not. It's why we have incels.

As a mom also of sons - how do we fix this?

It is true that more women to go college than men but it isn't true that more women go to top schools in top majors then go to top jobs then men.

I live in Boston, which has way more women college students and grads than men but it's flipped when you actually see it on a major and then firm or (in medicine, specialty) basis.

to mom of sons, my observation in Boston:

have your sons go to a strong school, get on a challenging work out regimen, get their nutrition right so they are well above median height, make sure they are doing strong internships and majors that lead to strong employment outcomes which lead to the remuneration to live comfortably in neighborhoods with high concentrations of eligible women (i.e. it's a lot easier to date when you live comfortably in a nice walkable neighborhood).

I’m sorry…but nutrition won’t get your kids above median height if you have two short parents…certainly not well above median height.

Now, malnourishment can kill a growth trajectory…but I doubt anyone on DCUM is malnourishing their kids.

A lot of boys aren’t getting the right nutrition stack in the us.

1 gram of protein per pound of body weight daily. The right macros go a long way.

Ok they won’t get to 6’2 but the median American family is not optimizing their diet at all.

Still a 5’8” dad and 5’4” mom aren’t producing a 6’ kid regardless of nutrition.

I mean…everyone wants a tall son, so if there was magic in giving them protein then every UMC family would have sons over 6 foot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy that women who have never married are focusing on the “unpaid labor” aspect. That’s more of an issue that arises in marriage later on, after kids arrive. I think the likelier explanations are increased working areas, fewer social interactions generally (we see this in studies of Americans having fewer and fewer friendships, some of which would of course lead to romance), economic instability and fewer college educated, emotionally stable and well paid eligible men. More than ever, women are looking for income and education in men.

You don’t think young women grow up in this dynamic? Seeing their working mom slave away while dad does $hit all sitting on the couch? Gmafb. You are not giving women enough credit here. Are you a man?

I’m a woman of a young adult daughter. She and girlfriends absolutely want marriage but they have high standards. They want smart, ambitious, college educated. Guys like that have no problem finding women but there are more women on that category than men.

ie, women have stepped up their game, but men have not. It's why we have incels.

As a mom also of sons - how do we fix this?

It is true that more women to go college than men but it isn't true that more women go to top schools in top majors then go to top jobs then men.

I live in Boston, which has way more women college students and grads than men but it's flipped when you actually see it on a major and then firm or (in medicine, specialty) basis.

to mom of sons, my observation in Boston:

have your sons go to a strong school, get on a challenging work out regimen, get their nutrition right so they are well above median height, make sure they are doing strong internships and majors that lead to strong employment outcomes which lead to the remuneration to live comfortably in neighborhoods with high concentrations of eligible women (i.e. it's a lot easier to date when you live comfortably in a nice walkable neighborhood).

I’m sorry…but nutrition won’t get your kids above median height if you have two short parents…certainly not well above median height.

Now, malnourishment can kill a growth trajectory…but I doubt anyone on DCUM is malnourishing their kids.

A lot of boys aren’t getting the right nutrition stack in the us.

1 gram of protein per pound of body weight daily. The right macros go a long way.

Ok they won’t get to 6’2 but the median American family is not optimizing their diet at all.

No, it's because six foot tall men are marrying 5"3' women or shorter.

They are going to have average height sons and daughters.

What's funny is that my mom married my tall dad because she wanted to have tall sons; she ended up with a short son and a very tall daughter. It happens.

Taller men could have taller sons if they married women taller than average.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s cultural. The culture out there is telling women that they are so amazing and can do it all, which results in them not wanting to settle at all for someone beneath them (whether it be job wise, looks wise, personality wise).

Who does? But many of these women’s standards are unrealistic bc there is a super small percentage of men that are equal to them, and they are all competing against each other.

If they date someone who is not as great as them, It also causes them to think, why should I sacrifice (a,b,c) for this person. They are just ok. I should wait it out or just be single. Or they stay in these relationships and get mad bc their bfs are not picking up the slack. The guy is automatically on the out list if they are not contributing equally in some way. The bottom line is everyone is uber selfish and wants to put themselves first.

Good marriages are compromises of each partner sacrificing at different points in the marriage. That’s what love is- having to sacrifice and take up your partners burden at different points. But finding a good man or women who won’t take advantage of this is hard. Both women and men don’t want to compromise nowadays, because they feel “taken advantages of”, hence women being “done” with marriage.

Expound on how and why there is only a “super small percentage of suitable men out there”.

Without 2 more sections telling women to put up with it.

DP. So I was sick for a week and went down YouTube rabbit holes. There are apps for dating where you can put your requirements in and it will spit out what percentage of men fit those requirements. So let’s say 6’ tall, $150k a year, not fat, not married, college grad and 30-35 years old. These requirements take you down to 6% of available men.

Now rough numbers for dating apps end up with 10% of the men get 60% of swipes(general term), 20% of men get 80% of swipes. The bottom 60% of men get 4% of right swipes. Women right swipe 5% of the time, men swipe 50% of the time. This results in women no matter where they land on the top to bottom scale receive a lot of swipes and the top men getting more right swipes vs the top women.

Now the top 10% of men get a lot of interest from all the women(not just the top 20%). So these men have lots of options. While women even the ones who “lower” their standards to include the top 20% of men face a lot of competition. So a few men get all the attention and most of the women end up with attention from men they are uninterested in.

If I have time I will track down the videos explaining all this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy that women who have never married are focusing on the “unpaid labor” aspect. That’s more of an issue that arises in marriage later on, after kids arrive. I think the likelier explanations are increased working areas, fewer social interactions generally (we see this in studies of Americans having fewer and fewer friendships, some of which would of course lead to romance), economic instability and fewer college educated, emotionally stable and well paid eligible men. More than ever, women are looking for income and education in men.

You don’t think young women grow up in this dynamic? Seeing their working mom slave away while dad does $hit all sitting on the couch? Gmafb. You are not giving women enough credit here. Are you a man?

I’m a woman of a young adult daughter. She and girlfriends absolutely want marriage but they have high standards. They want smart, ambitious, college educated. Guys like that have no problem finding women but there are more women on that category than men.

ie, women have stepped up their game, but men have not. It's why we have incels.

As a mom also of sons - how do we fix this?

It is true that more women to go college than men but it isn't true that more women go to top schools in top majors then go to top jobs then men.

I live in Boston, which has way more women college students and grads than men but it's flipped when you actually see it on a major and then firm or (in medicine, specialty) basis.

to mom of sons, my observation in Boston:

have your sons go to a strong school, get on a challenging work out regimen, get their nutrition right so they are well above median height, make sure they are doing strong internships and majors that lead to strong employment outcomes which lead to the remuneration to live comfortably in neighborhoods with high concentrations of eligible women (i.e. it's a lot easier to date when you live comfortably in a nice walkable neighborhood).

So gross. Don't engineer your child's life.