Only ~14% Of U.S. Adults Have Gotten Latest Covid-19 Vaccine Update

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t forget that people get Covid anyway even if they get the vaccine. This is why people stopped getting the vaccine .

+1

Still going to get it and spread it so why bother?

To slow the spread. Minimize the symptoms. Protect others.

Look at the CDC UptoDate page. It says the reason to take the 2023-24 updated vaccine is to reduce the severity of illness. It does not mention slowing the spread/transmission. The lack of mention of that latter factor is notable. "CDC recommends the 2023–2024 updated COVID-19 vaccines: Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, or Novavax, to protect against serious illness from COVID-19." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html

Some people will also argue that vaccines reduce the likelihood of long covid. However, here's what the CDC website says on that: "Estimating vaccine effectiveness against post-acute conditions associated with COVID-19, including multisystem inflammatory syndrome (MIS) and Post-COVID Conditions (PCC), also known as Long COVID, is challenging because these outcomes are less common than severe acute disease. ... The broad spectrum of PCCs, including its various manifestations and lack of standard case definitions across surveillance platforms, makes it challenging to evaluate vaccine effectiveness against these outcomes and interpret findings across studies." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/how-they-work.html

Thus, reducing the severity of illness is the only reason cited on the CDC's UptoDate page to justify its broad-based recommendations for the new booster. However, Omicron is milder than earlier strains and covid hospitalizations and deaths are near record lows. Non-elderly, non-vulnerable people face very little risk of severe outcomes from Omicron. Which is why nearly every other nation in the world only recommends the current booster for the vulnerable and elderly.

Do you mean the CDC no longer think the vaccine protects others? What about asymptomatic carriers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like the vax stopped the hospital and morgue overcrowding in 2020-21. Remember when ICUs were triaging people because they ran out of beds? I think most people have antibodies from prior infections and injections protecting them somewhat now, so it doesn't seem like as big of a deal.

Omicron is milder than the earlier strains. If you look at Society for Actuaries data, excess mortality from covid remained high all through 2021 despite the covid vaccines. It wasn't until early 2022 that excess mortality from covid fell plunged, which occurred as Omicron became the dominant strain. https://www.soa.org/4ac0fd/globalassets/assets/files/resources/experience-studies/2023/group-life-covid-mort-06-23.pdf Page 27, Table 5.9

Omicron affects the upper respiratory system more than earlier strains, yielding far milder outcomes. All of today's circulating covid strains are Omicron variants. https://covariants.org/

The actuary data is interesting. Does this mean that the vaccines didn't save that many lives? Does it show increased deaths from non-covid? They really should do randomized trials with them. I'm not getting anymore covid vaccines because the mrna/nanoparticles are too new and didn't like the side effects from 2nd shot. Maybe novavax in the future but covid is relatively mild(the only time 1 got it in jan earlier this year) not sure I will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like the vax stopped the hospital and morgue overcrowding in 2020-21. Remember when ICUs were triaging people because they ran out of beds? I think most people have antibodies from prior infections and injections protecting them somewhat now, so it doesn't seem like as big of a deal.

Omicron is milder than the earlier strains. If you look at Society for Actuaries data, excess mortality from covid remained high all through 2021 despite the covid vaccines. It wasn't until early 2022 that excess mortality from covid fell plunged, which occurred as Omicron became the dominant strain. https://www.soa.org/4ac0fd/globalassets/assets/files/resources/experience-studies/2023/group-life-covid-mort-06-23.pdf Page 27, Table 5.9

Omicron affects the upper respiratory system more than earlier strains, yielding far milder outcomes. All of today's circulating covid strains are Omicron variants. https://covariants.org/

The actuary data is interesting. Does this mean that the vaccines didn't save that many lives? Does it show increased deaths from non-covid? They really should do randomized trials with them. I'm not getting anymore covid vaccines because the mrna/nanoparticles are too new and didn't like the side effects from 2nd shot. Maybe novavax in the future but covid is relatively mild(the only time 1 got it in jan earlier this year) not sure I will.

Of course, the vaccines saved lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t forget that people get Covid anyway even if they get the vaccine. This is why people stopped getting the vaccine .

+1

Still going to get it and spread it so why bother?

To slow the spread. Minimize the symptoms. Protect others.

Look at the CDC UptoDate page. It says the reason to take the 2023-24 updated vaccine is to reduce the severity of illness. It does not mention slowing the spread/transmission. The lack of mention of that latter factor is notable. "CDC recommends the 2023–2024 updated COVID-19 vaccines: Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, or Novavax, to protect against serious illness from COVID-19." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html

Some people will also argue that vaccines reduce the likelihood of long covid. However, here's what the CDC website says on that: "Estimating vaccine effectiveness against post-acute conditions associated with COVID-19, including multisystem inflammatory syndrome (MIS) and Post-COVID Conditions (PCC), also known as Long COVID, is challenging because these outcomes are less common than severe acute disease. ... The broad spectrum of PCCs, including its various manifestations and lack of standard case definitions across surveillance platforms, makes it challenging to evaluate vaccine effectiveness against these outcomes and interpret findings across studies." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/how-they-work.html

Thus, reducing the severity of illness is the only reason cited on the CDC's UptoDate page to justify its broad-based recommendations for the new booster. However, Omicron is milder than earlier strains and covid hospitalizations and deaths are near record lows. Non-elderly, non-vulnerable people face very little risk of severe outcomes from Omicron. Which is why nearly every other nation in the world only recommends the current booster for the vulnerable and elderly.

Do you mean the CDC no longer think the vaccine protects others? What about asymptomatic carriers?

We can just read what the CDC puts on its website. On its main covid vaccine page, UptoDate, the CDC only lists protection against serious illness as the reason for taking the booster; it does not mention decreased transmission. You would think that if they had evidence to support other reasons to take the booster, they would list those too. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like the vax stopped the hospital and morgue overcrowding in 2020-21. Remember when ICUs were triaging people because they ran out of beds? I think most people have antibodies from prior infections and injections protecting them somewhat now, so it doesn't seem like as big of a deal.

Omicron is milder than the earlier strains. If you look at Society for Actuaries data, excess mortality from covid remained high all through 2021 despite the covid vaccines. It wasn't until early 2022 that excess mortality from covid fell plunged, which occurred as Omicron became the dominant strain. https://www.soa.org/4ac0fd/globalassets/assets/files/resources/experience-studies/2023/group-life-covid-mort-06-23.pdf Page 27, Table 5.9

Omicron affects the upper respiratory system more than earlier strains, yielding far milder outcomes. All of today's circulating covid strains are Omicron variants. https://covariants.org/

The actuary data is interesting. Does this mean that the vaccines didn't save that many lives? Does it show increased deaths from non-covid? They really should do randomized trials with them. I'm not getting anymore covid vaccines because the mrna/nanoparticles are too new and didn't like the side effects from 2nd shot. Maybe novavax in the future but covid is relatively mild(the only time 1 got it in jan earlier this year) not sure I will.

Of course, the vaccines saved lives.

How do you know that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only ~14% Of U.S. Adults Have Gotten Latest Covid-19 Vaccine Update
What are we in for???

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2023/11/18/only-14-of-us-adults-have-gotten-latest-updated-covid-19-vaccine/

NP. Got a flu shot but will not get another Covid vaccine. This is consistent with most people I know. I also know people who have said they’re getting one to appease the crazies in their life, but in reality have no intention of doing so.

Why not? Aren't you scared you'll get covid?????

No. First because I’ve had the first two vaccines. Second because I’ve had covid before, even after being vaccinated, and it was basically a mild cold for me with some muscle zinging-ness. On the other hand, when I had flu, I was feverish and extremely sick for a week. Maybe if I’d never had Covid before, I would feel differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like the vax stopped the hospital and morgue overcrowding in 2020-21. Remember when ICUs were triaging people because they ran out of beds? I think most people have antibodies from prior infections and injections protecting them somewhat now, so it doesn't seem like as big of a deal.

Omicron is milder than the earlier strains. If you look at Society for Actuaries data, excess mortality from covid remained high all through 2021 despite the covid vaccines. It wasn't until early 2022 that excess mortality from covid fell plunged, which occurred as Omicron became the dominant strain. https://www.soa.org/4ac0fd/globalassets/assets/files/resources/experience-studies/2023/group-life-covid-mort-06-23.pdf Page 27, Table 5.9

Omicron affects the upper respiratory system more than earlier strains, yielding far milder outcomes. All of today's circulating covid strains are Omicron variants. https://covariants.org/

The actuary data is interesting. Does this mean that the vaccines didn't save that many lives? Does it show increased deaths from non-covid? They really should do randomized trials with them. I'm not getting anymore covid vaccines because the mrna/nanoparticles are too new and didn't like the side effects from 2nd shot. Maybe novavax in the future but covid is relatively mild(the only time 1 got it in jan earlier this year) not sure I will.

Of course, the vaccines saved lives.

I think it's unlikely they did. Like most epidemics, enough people died or got immunity from having the virus, that it mutated and became less severe, like the flu epidemic, and likely many others. The vaccine manufacturers got lucky and used the timing to their advantage. The vast majority of the public are not getting vaccinated and there is no negative effect to this. We had epidemics come and go for millennia without vaccines. This one was no different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like the vax stopped the hospital and morgue overcrowding in 2020-21. Remember when ICUs were triaging people because they ran out of beds? I think most people have antibodies from prior infections and injections protecting them somewhat now, so it doesn't seem like as big of a deal.

Omicron is milder than the earlier strains. If you look at Society for Actuaries data, excess mortality from covid remained high all through 2021 despite the covid vaccines. It wasn't until early 2022 that excess mortality from covid fell plunged, which occurred as Omicron became the dominant strain. https://www.soa.org/4ac0fd/globalassets/assets/files/resources/experience-studies/2023/group-life-covid-mort-06-23.pdf Page 27, Table 5.9

Omicron affects the upper respiratory system more than earlier strains, yielding far milder outcomes. All of today's circulating covid strains are Omicron variants. https://covariants.org/

The actuary data is interesting. Does this mean that the vaccines didn't save that many lives? Does it show increased deaths from non-covid? They really should do randomized trials with them. I'm not getting anymore covid vaccines because the mrna/nanoparticles are too new and didn't like the side effects from 2nd shot. Maybe novavax in the future but covid is relatively mild(the only time 1 got it in jan earlier this year) not sure I will.

Of course, the vaccines saved lives.

I think it's unlikely they did. Like most epidemics, enough people died or got immunity from having the virus, that it mutated and became less severe, like the flu epidemic, and likely many others. The vaccine manufacturers got lucky and used the timing to their advantage. The vast majority of the public are not getting vaccinated and there is no negative effect to this. We had epidemics come and go for millennia without vaccines. This one was no different.

Didn't one of the Scandinavian countries just go about business as usual the entire pandemic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like the vax stopped the hospital and morgue overcrowding in 2020-21. Remember when ICUs were triaging people because they ran out of beds? I think most people have antibodies from prior infections and injections protecting them somewhat now, so it doesn't seem like as big of a deal.

Omicron is milder than the earlier strains. If you look at Society for Actuaries data, excess mortality from covid remained high all through 2021 despite the covid vaccines. It wasn't until early 2022 that excess mortality from covid fell plunged, which occurred as Omicron became the dominant strain. https://www.soa.org/4ac0fd/globalassets/assets/files/resources/experience-studies/2023/group-life-covid-mort-06-23.pdf Page 27, Table 5.9

Omicron affects the upper respiratory system more than earlier strains, yielding far milder outcomes. All of today's circulating covid strains are Omicron variants. https://covariants.org/

The actuary data is interesting. Does this mean that the vaccines didn't save that many lives? Does it show increased deaths from non-covid? They really should do randomized trials with them. I'm not getting anymore covid vaccines because the mrna/nanoparticles are too new and didn't like the side effects from 2nd shot. Maybe novavax in the future but covid is relatively mild(the only time 1 got it in jan earlier this year) not sure I will.

Of course, the vaccines saved lives.

I think it's unlikely they did. Like most epidemics, enough people died or got immunity from having the virus, that it mutated and became less severe, like the flu epidemic, and likely many others. The vaccine manufacturers got lucky and used the timing to their advantage. The vast majority of the public are not getting vaccinated and there is no negative effect to this. We had epidemics come and go for millennia without vaccines. This one was no different.

Didn't one of the Scandinavian countries just go about business as usual the entire pandemic?

LOL at thinking the whole fatty world would fare as well as one healthy Scandanavian country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like the vax stopped the hospital and morgue overcrowding in 2020-21. Remember when ICUs were triaging people because they ran out of beds? I think most people have antibodies from prior infections and injections protecting them somewhat now, so it doesn't seem like as big of a deal.

Omicron is milder than the earlier strains. If you look at Society for Actuaries data, excess mortality from covid remained high all through 2021 despite the covid vaccines. It wasn't until early 2022 that excess mortality from covid fell plunged, which occurred as Omicron became the dominant strain. https://www.soa.org/4ac0fd/globalassets/assets/files/resources/experience-studies/2023/group-life-covid-mort-06-23.pdf Page 27, Table 5.9

Omicron affects the upper respiratory system more than earlier strains, yielding far milder outcomes. All of today's circulating covid strains are Omicron variants. https://covariants.org/

The actuary data is interesting. Does this mean that the vaccines didn't save that many lives? Does it show increased deaths from non-covid? They really should do randomized trials with them. I'm not getting anymore covid vaccines because the mrna/nanoparticles are too new and didn't like the side effects from 2nd shot. Maybe novavax in the future but covid is relatively mild(the only time 1 got it in jan earlier this year) not sure I will.

Of course, the vaccines saved lives.

I think it's unlikely they did. Like most epidemics, enough people died or got immunity from having the virus, that it mutated and became less severe, like the flu epidemic, and likely many others. The vaccine manufacturers got lucky and used the timing to their advantage. The vast majority of the public are not getting vaccinated and there is no negative effect to this. We had epidemics come and go for millennia without vaccines. This one was no different.

Didn't one of the Scandinavian countries just go about business as usual the entire pandemic?

LOL at thinking the whole fatty world would fare as well as one healthy Scandanavian country.

Do you think weight, other than obesity, is a factor? Just being overweight in general?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like the vax stopped the hospital and morgue overcrowding in 2020-21. Remember when ICUs were triaging people because they ran out of beds? I think most people have antibodies from prior infections and injections protecting them somewhat now, so it doesn't seem like as big of a deal.

Omicron is milder than the earlier strains. If you look at Society for Actuaries data, excess mortality from covid remained high all through 2021 despite the covid vaccines. It wasn't until early 2022 that excess mortality from covid fell plunged, which occurred as Omicron became the dominant strain. https://www.soa.org/4ac0fd/globalassets/assets/files/resources/experience-studies/2023/group-life-covid-mort-06-23.pdf Page 27, Table 5.9

Omicron affects the upper respiratory system more than earlier strains, yielding far milder outcomes. All of today's circulating covid strains are Omicron variants. https://covariants.org/

The actuary data is interesting. Does this mean that the vaccines didn't save that many lives? Does it show increased deaths from non-covid? They really should do randomized trials with them. I'm not getting anymore covid vaccines because the mrna/nanoparticles are too new and didn't like the side effects from 2nd shot. Maybe novavax in the future but covid is relatively mild(the only time 1 got it in jan earlier this year) not sure I will.

Of course, the vaccines saved lives.

In the fullness of time, I suspect we will conclude that the vaccines saved lives, but that the vast majority of lives saved came among those who got the vaccine between December 2020 and the emergence of Omicron in late 2021. Omicron just wasn't dangerous enough to the general population, and the vaccines couldn't stop transmission any more. From that point forward the vaccines stopped providing any net benefit except to a small proportion of the old and immune-deficient. I suspect we could stop vaccinating and tracking it tomorrow and no one would be able to tell from the raw data that something had changed. It's basically become equivalent to the other four circulating coronaviruses, which are bad colds which everyone gets when they are young, and are periodically re-exposed.

[Anonymous]

Vaccines saved no lives. Amish did nothing and did not have a death rate higher than the highly vaccinated public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like the vax stopped the hospital and morgue overcrowding in 2020-21. Remember when ICUs were triaging people because they ran out of beds? I think most people have antibodies from prior infections and injections protecting them somewhat now, so it doesn't seem like as big of a deal.

Omicron is milder than the earlier strains. If you look at Society for Actuaries data, excess mortality from covid remained high all through 2021 despite the covid vaccines. It wasn't until early 2022 that excess mortality from covid fell plunged, which occurred as Omicron became the dominant strain. https://www.soa.org/4ac0fd/globalassets/assets/files/resources/experience-studies/2023/group-life-covid-mort-06-23.pdf Page 27, Table 5.9

Omicron affects the upper respiratory system more than earlier strains, yielding far milder outcomes. All of today's circulating covid strains are Omicron variants. https://covariants.org/

The actuary data is interesting. Does this mean that the vaccines didn't save that many lives? Does it show increased deaths from non-covid? They really should do randomized trials with them. I'm not getting anymore covid vaccines because the mrna/nanoparticles are too new and didn't like the side effects from 2nd shot. Maybe novavax in the future but covid is relatively mild(the only time 1 got it in jan earlier this year) not sure I will.

Of course, the vaccines saved lives.

In the fullness of time, I suspect we will conclude that the vaccines saved lives, but that the vast majority of lives saved came among those who got the vaccine between December 2020 and the emergence of Omicron in late 2021. Omicron just wasn't dangerous enough to the general population, and the vaccines couldn't stop transmission any more. From that point forward the vaccines stopped providing any net benefit except to a small proportion of the old and immune-deficient. I suspect we could stop vaccinating and tracking it tomorrow and no one would be able to tell from the raw data that something had changed. It's basically become equivalent to the other four circulating coronaviruses, which are bad colds which everyone gets when they are young, and are periodically re-exposed.

Agree with your second point, but think it's unclear what the vaccine's effect was in 2020-21. There has never been a fully successful vaccine for a coronavirus because they target the upper respiratory tract which is effectively an external surface of the body and thus not readily accessible by vaccines.

This article outlines the difficulties of using an intermuscularly injected vaccine for viruses that infect the upper respiratory tract. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-03557-7 "Current injectable COVID-19 vaccines are unable to induce robust immunity in the mucosal tissues lining the airways. ... At present, COVID-19 vaccines are administered through injection into muscle. Although these shots are generally effective in providing protection against developing severe disease, they are less good at preventing infection by rapidly evolving variants of the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2. ... Intramuscularly injected vaccines cannot induce immunity in the mucosal tissues of the airways, which is the site of SARS-CoV-2 entry."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t forget that people get Covid anyway even if they get the vaccine. This is why people stopped getting the vaccine .

+1

Still going to get it and spread it so why bother?

To slow the spread. Minimize the symptoms. Protect others.

Look at the CDC UptoDate page. It says the reason to take the 2023-24 updated vaccine is to reduce the severity of illness. It does not mention slowing the spread/transmission. The lack of mention of that latter factor is notable. "CDC recommends the 2023–2024 updated COVID-19 vaccines: Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, or Novavax, to protect against serious illness from COVID-19." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html

Some people will also argue that vaccines reduce the likelihood of long covid. However, here's what the CDC website says on that: "Estimating vaccine effectiveness against post-acute conditions associated with COVID-19, including multisystem inflammatory syndrome (MIS) and Post-COVID Conditions (PCC), also known as Long COVID, is challenging because these outcomes are less common than severe acute disease. ... The broad spectrum of PCCs, including its various manifestations and lack of standard case definitions across surveillance platforms, makes it challenging to evaluate vaccine effectiveness against these outcomes and interpret findings across studies." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/how-they-work.html

Thus, reducing the severity of illness is the only reason cited on the CDC's UptoDate page to justify its broad-based recommendations for the new booster. However, Omicron is milder than earlier strains and covid hospitalizations and deaths are near record lows. Non-elderly, non-vulnerable people face very little risk of severe outcomes from Omicron. Which is why nearly every other nation in the world only recommends the current booster for the vulnerable and elderly.

Do you mean the CDC no longer think the vaccine protects others? What about asymptomatic carriers?

We can just read what the CDC puts on its website. On its main covid vaccine page, UptoDate, the CDC only lists protection against serious illness as the reason for taking the booster; it does not mention decreased transmission. You would think that if they had evidence to support other reasons to take the booster, they would list those too. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html

The Covid vaccine has always been about decreasing serious illness.

Masks and distance are what decrease transmission.

I'm getting the vaccines because I want to minimize my chances of dying or getting hospitalized. For me, that's enough motivation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like the vax stopped the hospital and morgue overcrowding in 2020-21. Remember when ICUs were triaging people because they ran out of beds? I think most people have antibodies from prior infections and injections protecting them somewhat now, so it doesn't seem like as big of a deal.

Omicron is milder than the earlier strains. If you look at Society for Actuaries data, excess mortality from covid remained high all through 2021 despite the covid vaccines. It wasn't until early 2022 that excess mortality from covid fell plunged, which occurred as Omicron became the dominant strain. https://www.soa.org/4ac0fd/globalassets/assets/files/resources/experience-studies/2023/group-life-covid-mort-06-23.pdf Page 27, Table 5.9

Omicron affects the upper respiratory system more than earlier strains, yielding far milder outcomes. All of today's circulating covid strains are Omicron variants. https://covariants.org/

The actuary data is interesting. Does this mean that the vaccines didn't save that many lives? Does it show increased deaths from non-covid? They really should do randomized trials with them. I'm not getting anymore covid vaccines because the mrna/nanoparticles are too new and didn't like the side effects from 2nd shot. Maybe novavax in the future but covid is relatively mild(the only time 1 got it in jan earlier this year) not sure I will.

Of course, the vaccines saved lives.

I think it's unlikely they did. Like most epidemics, enough people died or got immunity from having the virus, that it mutated and became less severe, like the flu epidemic, and likely many others. The vaccine manufacturers got lucky and used the timing to their advantage. The vast majority of the public are not getting vaccinated and there is no negative effect to this. We had epidemics come and go for millennia without vaccines. This one was no different.

Didn't one of the Scandinavian countries just go about business as usual the entire pandemic?

You mean a small country that could close their border to keep people out. Sure, they probably did better.