Distressed dad says 'never did I think I would have a problem finding food for my baby in America'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a reminder that the baby formula shortage is ongoing.

Highlighted there is that there is only one formula her daughter can tolerate. Not all formulas are having production issues. Her child Likely needs a hypo, RTF, or amino. This is actually part of the reason I pumped at work until year 1.5 and removed dairy from my diet as my son could not tolerate regular or hypo formulas. He would have required amino acid formulas and you have to trial those because not all babies will tolerate them nor ingest them (they taste awful).
At 4.5 he is just NOW tolerating milk products but it isnt an allergy and something like 90% of kids who have protein intolerances grow out of the by 2. I did not want to rely on formula for both cost and production issues. Cost was the primary issue because most insurance companies will only pay for X number of cans per month and only until 1 year. Anything manufactured has the potential to stop being produced.
I had to exclusively pump until 4 months and kept trying nursing until he latched at 4mos. Continued bfing until 2.5 but I never would have been able to pump exclusively past a year. I dont respond well to a pump AND it is so laborious. We really expect mothers to figure it all out whether its nursing or formula feeding.

I really wish the government would do a random trial of 50000 women across socioeconomic lines and provide 1 year of maternity leave, 6 months of paternity leave, and 3 years of paid preschool. Follow them for 30 years to compare outcomes. We invest the least amount in children 0-3 compared to other nations and wonder why we all have depression, anxiety, low performance, etc.

Why in the world would one need a year of maternity leave PLUS 6 months of paternity leave? My husband was active duty military and deployed within weeks of the births of my babies---DEPLOYED to a foreign country for 7+ months. Not around AT ALL---not "in his home office from 10 am-1 pm but able to come out and get coffee, walk the dog, and do whatever as often as he wants."
I managed to breastfeed all my babies.

What's your point? Surely you understand your situation is not indicative of what it is like for someone else? Just because you can't fathom making life a bit easier for people, and like to finish first in the misery sweepstakes, doesn't mean other people don't feel that way. The way we slog things out here in the U.S. is not exemplary. There is not virtue or morality in it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a reminder that the baby formula shortage is ongoing.

Highlighted there is that there is only one formula her daughter can tolerate. Not all formulas are having production issues. Her child Likely needs a hypo, RTF, or amino. This is actually part of the reason I pumped at work until year 1.5 and removed dairy from my diet as my son could not tolerate regular or hypo formulas. He would have required amino acid formulas and you have to trial those because not all babies will tolerate them nor ingest them (they taste awful).
At 4.5 he is just NOW tolerating milk products but it isnt an allergy and something like 90% of kids who have protein intolerances grow out of the by 2. I did not want to rely on formula for both cost and production issues. Cost was the primary issue because most insurance companies will only pay for X number of cans per month and only until 1 year. Anything manufactured has the potential to stop being produced.
I had to exclusively pump until 4 months and kept trying nursing until he latched at 4mos. Continued bfing until 2.5 but I never would have been able to pump exclusively past a year. I dont respond well to a pump AND it is so laborious. We really expect mothers to figure it all out whether its nursing or formula feeding.

I really wish the government would do a random trial of 50000 women across socioeconomic lines and provide 1 year of maternity leave, 6 months of paternity leave, and 3 years of paid preschool. Follow them for 30 years to compare outcomes. We invest the least amount in children 0-3 compared to other nations and wonder why we all have depression, anxiety, low performance, etc.

Why in the world would one need a year of maternity leave PLUS 6 months of paternity leave? My husband was active duty military and deployed within weeks of the births of my babies---DEPLOYED to a foreign country for 7+ months. Not around AT ALL---not "in his home office from 10 am-1 pm but able to come out and get coffee, walk the dog, and do whatever as often as he wants."
I managed to breastfeed all my babies.

Narcissism on parade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a reminder that the baby formula shortage is ongoing.

Highlighted there is that there is only one formula her daughter can tolerate. Not all formulas are having production issues. Her child Likely needs a hypo, RTF, or amino. This is actually part of the reason I pumped at work until year 1.5 and removed dairy from my diet as my son could not tolerate regular or hypo formulas. He would have required amino acid formulas and you have to trial those because not all babies will tolerate them nor ingest them (they taste awful).
At 4.5 he is just NOW tolerating milk products but it isnt an allergy and something like 90% of kids who have protein intolerances grow out of the by 2. I did not want to rely on formula for both cost and production issues. Cost was the primary issue because most insurance companies will only pay for X number of cans per month and only until 1 year. Anything manufactured has the potential to stop being produced.
I had to exclusively pump until 4 months and kept trying nursing until he latched at 4mos. Continued bfing until 2.5 but I never would have been able to pump exclusively past a year. I dont respond well to a pump AND it is so laborious. We really expect mothers to figure it all out whether its nursing or formula feeding.

I really wish the government would do a random trial of 50000 women across socioeconomic lines and provide 1 year of maternity leave, 6 months of paternity leave, and 3 years of paid preschool. Follow them for 30 years to compare outcomes. We invest the least amount in children 0-3 compared to other nations and wonder why we all have depression, anxiety, low performance, etc.

Why in the world would one need a year of maternity leave PLUS 6 months of paternity leave? My husband was active duty military and deployed within weeks of the births of my babies---DEPLOYED to a foreign country for 7+ months. Not around AT ALL---not "in his home office from 10 am-1 pm but able to come out and get coffee, walk the dog, and do whatever as often as he wants."
I managed to breastfeed all my babies.

NP: So you were a SAHM. That already puts you ahead of a lot of mothers who went back to work at 6 weeks. Hard to breastfeed your babies when you're away from them most of the day.

Boo hoo. Live within your means and you can stay home with your children and breastfeed all day long.

This is the way. Too many families are overextended and reliant on two incomes. They have no savings and no plan for one parent being down for any reason. Live within your means, save for the future, and sacrifice for your future children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So we can argue about breast feeding and maternity leave, or we can discuss why we are having so much trouble with supply chains and why we are farming so much out to China, given we are now moving into a shortage of antibiotics, which you can’t produce yourself.

+1

You don’t care now because it affects babies and children. (BTW when Covid started I said that if we had a pandemic mostly affecting babies and young children, less common in working age adults, and rare to nonexistent deaths and complications in the elderly, life would have gone on as basically normal and it looks like I was right, just saying …) But it’ll be your medications next. Your medical devices. Something that you need in order to have a good quality of life.

[Anonymous]

As a Texan the thread here is hard to read for the lack of empathy. There’s a pipeline (or maybe cycle) from education (including sex ed) to reproductive services to maternity support to childcare back to education, where at every stage there is not just apathy but something like schadenfreude driving people in a race to the bottom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a Texan the thread here is hard to read for the lack of empathy. There’s a pipeline (or maybe cycle) from education (including sex ed) to reproductive services to maternity support to childcare back to education, where at every stage there is not just apathy but something like schadenfreude driving people in a race to the bottom.

Wha?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a reminder that the baby formula shortage is ongoing.

Highlighted there is that there is only one formula her daughter can tolerate. Not all formulas are having production issues. Her child Likely needs a hypo, RTF, or amino. This is actually part of the reason I pumped at work until year 1.5 and removed dairy from my diet as my son could not tolerate regular or hypo formulas. He would have required amino acid formulas and you have to trial those because not all babies will tolerate them nor ingest them (they taste awful).
At 4.5 he is just NOW tolerating milk products but it isnt an allergy and something like 90% of kids who have protein intolerances grow out of the by 2. I did not want to rely on formula for both cost and production issues. Cost was the primary issue because most insurance companies will only pay for X number of cans per month and only until 1 year. Anything manufactured has the potential to stop being produced.
I had to exclusively pump until 4 months and kept trying nursing until he latched at 4mos. Continued bfing until 2.5 but I never would have been able to pump exclusively past a year. I dont respond well to a pump AND it is so laborious. We really expect mothers to figure it all out whether its nursing or formula feeding.

I really wish the government would do a random trial of 50000 women across socioeconomic lines and provide 1 year of maternity leave, 6 months of paternity leave, and 3 years of paid preschool. Follow them for 30 years to compare outcomes. We invest the least amount in children 0-3 compared to other nations and wonder why we all have depression, anxiety, low performance, etc.

Why in the world would one need a year of maternity leave PLUS 6 months of paternity leave? My husband was active duty military and deployed within weeks of the births of my babies---DEPLOYED to a foreign country for 7+ months. Not around AT ALL---not "in his home office from 10 am-1 pm but able to come out and get coffee, walk the dog, and do whatever as often as he wants."
I managed to breastfeed all my babies.

Ma'm respectfully it is not about the adult but the children and if you actually read my statement you would see that I used it as an example of providing for the support of the child directly through the family unit and how it might change outcomes for children.

I appreciate your husband's service and my grandmother raised 4 kids while he was in Vietnam and ended up having 2 more afterwards. Every time he came back for a couple days she ended up pregnant again. It was not ideal and it was not good for her or for the kids. She only survived because of the assistance from family and other officer's wives. They would work together since they all lived on base. That doesnt happen anymore and there is not a village pre-baked for most people. The military might be an exception but it probably would have been nice to have your husband home for a few months. Not everyone's job is going to be the same but the military should be providing assistance to new mothers when their husbands are deployed and vice versa. There is nothing shameful or wrong about having help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a reminder that the baby formula shortage is ongoing.

Highlighted there is that there is only one formula her daughter can tolerate. Not all formulas are having production issues. Her child Likely needs a hypo, RTF, or amino. This is actually part of the reason I pumped at work until year 1.5 and removed dairy from my diet as my son could not tolerate regular or hypo formulas. He would have required amino acid formulas and you have to trial those because not all babies will tolerate them nor ingest them (they taste awful).
At 4.5 he is just NOW tolerating milk products but it isnt an allergy and something like 90% of kids who have protein intolerances grow out of the by 2. I did not want to rely on formula for both cost and production issues. Cost was the primary issue because most insurance companies will only pay for X number of cans per month and only until 1 year. Anything manufactured has the potential to stop being produced.
I had to exclusively pump until 4 months and kept trying nursing until he latched at 4mos. Continued bfing until 2.5 but I never would have been able to pump exclusively past a year. I dont respond well to a pump AND it is so laborious. We really expect mothers to figure it all out whether its nursing or formula feeding.

I really wish the government would do a random trial of 50000 women across socioeconomic lines and provide 1 year of maternity leave, 6 months of paternity leave, and 3 years of paid preschool. Follow them for 30 years to compare outcomes. We invest the least amount in children 0-3 compared to other nations and wonder why we all have depression, anxiety, low performance, etc.

Why in the world would one need a year of maternity leave PLUS 6 months of paternity leave? My husband was active duty military and deployed within weeks of the births of my babies---DEPLOYED to a foreign country for 7+ months. Not around AT ALL---not "in his home office from 10 am-1 pm but able to come out and get coffee, walk the dog, and do whatever as often as he wants."
I managed to breastfeed all my babies.

NP: So you were a SAHM. That already puts you ahead of a lot of mothers who went back to work at 6 weeks. Hard to breastfeed your babies when you're away from them most of the day.

Boo hoo. Live within your means and you can stay home with your children and breastfeed all day long.

This is the way. Too many families are overextended and reliant on two incomes. They have no savings and no plan for one parent being down for any reason. Live within your means, save for the future, and sacrifice for your future children.

Women should know their proper place is in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reporters need to ask KJP about this crisis at the press briefing.
Perhaps she will have an answer in her book.

And, in case anyone thinks this is old footage.... July 20. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/baby-formula-shortage-fda/

Honestly asking - how is that possible? This has been going on for half a year. There have been dozens of shipments from Europe. Did US manufacturing plants completely shut down?

Someone needs to ask this administration and see how they spin it.

Breast feed your Baby- who needs formula

Oh wait... the GOP is against paid maternity leave -guess all the women FORCED to give BIRTH will continue to have to go back to work at 6 weeks for their minimum wage jobs of $7/hr

I know women who WFH who refuse to breastfeed. You need formula -it’s literally essential for life. Basic necessity pp.

Actually, babies don't "need " artificial cow's milk based formula made in China or contaminated US factories as something " essential to their lives"

Human infants NEED Human milk, made naturally in the mother's body which not only provides ALL nutritional requirements, human breast milk is the ONLY source of transfer of the mother's immune globulins to her newborn to protect babies from various infectious illnesses.

Breast Milk is FREE and sanitary

So ironic that Republicans want to compel women to give birth, but refuse to support those very same women in breast feeding their babies -fully paid 1 year maternity leave

Instead, GOP wants to force more poor women to have babies and - at same time- start a trade war with CHINA- the main source of imported of cow's milk artificial baby formula, fail to inspect US based cow's milk artificial formula factories and allow trade monopolies to weaken the supply chain

No one needs, or should be given, a free ride year for a year so they can nurse. You already get FREE time from employers to pump and employers are forced to provide luxury nursing rooms for you. Oops, I forgot to mention other employees taking up your slack while you have your free pumping breaks.

Society is not responsible for your choice to procreate and don't give me your song and dance about your offspring paying for my social security.

You should probably stop talking. Maternity / Paternity leave is not a "free ride." What kind of a--hole even says that? People (and children with issues that require it) are healing, many dealing with mental health issues (PPD), stress, etc. Having to balance those things with work after a few weeks is extremely stressful and difficult (and my birth experience was easy and I still struggled). It is beneficial to families and societies -to have healthy well adjusted kids, parents, and workers- not to mention the morally indicate position to allow to a) allow it to happen, and b) recognize it's importance.

Your post is a callous, selfish, ignorant one. And one mostly relegated to a different era, though not yet fully, as posts like yours demonstrate. The sort of society you describe, that runs families into the ground, is not one that holds any virtue and is one that most other developed countries like ours shun. They mock us and they should. It's embarrassing. People like you are embarassing.

Put it to a vote nationwide and you will find out how wrong you are.

And people wonder why there is an opioid epidemic in America...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a reminder that the baby formula shortage is ongoing.

Highlighted there is that there is only one formula her daughter can tolerate. Not all formulas are having production issues. Her child Likely needs a hypo, RTF, or amino. This is actually part of the reason I pumped at work until year 1.5 and removed dairy from my diet as my son could not tolerate regular or hypo formulas. He would have required amino acid formulas and you have to trial those because not all babies will tolerate them nor ingest them (they taste awful).
At 4.5 he is just NOW tolerating milk products but it isnt an allergy and something like 90% of kids who have protein intolerances grow out of the by 2. I did not want to rely on formula for both cost and production issues. Cost was the primary issue because most insurance companies will only pay for X number of cans per month and only until 1 year. Anything manufactured has the potential to stop being produced.
I had to exclusively pump until 4 months and kept trying nursing until he latched at 4mos. Continued bfing until 2.5 but I never would have been able to pump exclusively past a year. I dont respond well to a pump AND it is so laborious. We really expect mothers to figure it all out whether its nursing or formula feeding.

I really wish the government would do a random trial of 50000 women across socioeconomic lines and provide 1 year of maternity leave, 6 months of paternity leave, and 3 years of paid preschool. Follow them for 30 years to compare outcomes. We invest the least amount in children 0-3 compared to other nations and wonder why we all have depression, anxiety, low performance, etc.

Why in the world would one need a year of maternity leave PLUS 6 months of paternity leave? My husband was active duty military and deployed within weeks of the births of my babies---DEPLOYED to a foreign country for 7+ months. Not around AT ALL---not "in his home office from 10 am-1 pm but able to come out and get coffee, walk the dog, and do whatever as often as he wants."
I managed to breastfeed all my babies.

NP: So you were a SAHM. That already puts you ahead of a lot of mothers who went back to work at 6 weeks. Hard to breastfeed your babies when you're away from them most of the day.

PP you quoted here. Yes, and if this hypothetical person got 1 year of maternity leave, they would also be a SAHM for that year. Why do they additionally need their husband home 24/7 for six months?

In countries with significant paternity leave, the father typically stays at home during the first 4-6 weeks during the mother's physical recovery and then the mother and father stagger their parental leave so that one parent is with the child(ren) throughout their first 12-18 months of life. Countries that require more equity between men and women in parental leave also see their gender pay gap shrink and more paternal involvement in the family. Greater parental leave overall lowers infant mortality and child abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a Texan the thread here is hard to read for the lack of empathy. There’s a pipeline (or maybe cycle) from education (including sex ed) to reproductive services to maternity support to childcare back to education, where at every stage there is not just apathy but something like schadenfreude driving people in a race to the bottom.

People have been sold on a zero sum game and everyone is out just for themselves. The irony is that if we spent more tax dollars on parental leave, quality childcare, reach in social services, and early childhood education, we would spend less money on the criminal justice system and have lower drug use and crime with higher employment numbers. People seem to prefer having a smaller pie, though, if it means that the people they don't like don't get a piece.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a reminder that the baby formula shortage is ongoing.

Highlighted there is that there is only one formula her daughter can tolerate. Not all formulas are having production issues. Her child Likely needs a hypo, RTF, or amino. This is actually part of the reason I pumped at work until year 1.5 and removed dairy from my diet as my son could not tolerate regular or hypo formulas. He would have required amino acid formulas and you have to trial those because not all babies will tolerate them nor ingest them (they taste awful).
At 4.5 he is just NOW tolerating milk products but it isnt an allergy and something like 90% of kids who have protein intolerances grow out of the by 2. I did not want to rely on formula for both cost and production issues. Cost was the primary issue because most insurance companies will only pay for X number of cans per month and only until 1 year. Anything manufactured has the potential to stop being produced.
I had to exclusively pump until 4 months and kept trying nursing until he latched at 4mos. Continued bfing until 2.5 but I never would have been able to pump exclusively past a year. I dont respond well to a pump AND it is so laborious. We really expect mothers to figure it all out whether its nursing or formula feeding.

I really wish the government would do a random trial of 50000 women across socioeconomic lines and provide 1 year of maternity leave, 6 months of paternity leave, and 3 years of paid preschool. Follow them for 30 years to compare outcomes. We invest the least amount in children 0-3 compared to other nations and wonder why we all have depression, anxiety, low performance, etc.

Why in the world would one need a year of maternity leave PLUS 6 months of paternity leave? My husband was active duty military and deployed within weeks of the births of my babies---DEPLOYED to a foreign country for 7+ months. Not around AT ALL---not "in his home office from 10 am-1 pm but able to come out and get coffee, walk the dog, and do whatever as often as he wants."
I managed to breastfeed all my babies.

NP: So you were a SAHM. That already puts you ahead of a lot of mothers who went back to work at 6 weeks. Hard to breastfeed your babies when you're away from them most of the day.

PP you quoted here. Yes, and if this hypothetical person got 1 year of maternity leave, they would also be a SAHM for that year. Why do they additionally need their husband home 24/7 for six months?

In countries with significant paternity leave, the father typically stays at home during the first 4-6 weeks during the mother's physical recovery and then the mother and father stagger their parental leave so that one parent is with the child(ren) throughout their first 12-18 months of life. Countries that require more equity between men and women in parental leave also see their gender pay gap shrink and more paternal involvement in the family. Greater parental leave overall lowers infant mortality and child abuse.

Thank you, PP. Again maternity and paternity leave are not some wild liberal alien idea conjured during an ayahuasca session. They are already in place in much of the world and countries continue to provide them because they do improve outcomes. I realize the US and its citizens tend to think they are exceptional and therefore exempt from comparisons to other countries which is why I suggested a small-scale trial in the US across all socioeconomic levels.

-born and raised in the US and think we can do better

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a Texan the thread here is hard to read for the lack of empathy. There’s a pipeline (or maybe cycle) from education (including sex ed) to reproductive services to maternity support to childcare back to education, where at every stage there is not just apathy but something like schadenfreude driving people in a race to the bottom.

Texas elected and reelected Ted Cruz and Greg Abbott. Two people completely void of all empathy and the milk of human kindness. Try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually, I am aware of the rare cases where its contra-indicated to breast feed:

* a woman with an infectious disease that is transmitted via bloodstream ( HIV, Hepatitis)
* Rh incompatability
* retro-grade nipples
* breast implants where the surgeon permanently damaged the " let down" nerve sensor reflex
* babies requiring a ketogenic diet

ALL of which are- even combined- a small enough number for their to be enough artificial formula made in China or some US factory for them to buy

For everyone else, breast milk IS and always WILL BE the best nutrition for an Infant- medical fact

What you should be doing is not lobbying for better access to cheap, crap formula that might even be contaminated- but lobbying for public policies that support Infants & mothers like paid 12 month maternity leave so women can , you know , feed their children, bond with them, set them on a good course in life

Instead of propping a formula bottle and off to day care with the baby in 6 weeks

Maybe you should advertise your services as a wet nurse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reporters need to ask KJP about this crisis at the press briefing.
Perhaps she will have an answer in her book.

And, in case anyone thinks this is old footage.... July 20. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/baby-formula-shortage-fda/

Honestly asking - how is that possible? This has been going on for half a year. There have been dozens of shipments from Europe. Did US manufacturing plants completely shut down?

Someone needs to ask this administration and see how they spin it.

Breast feed your Baby- who needs formula

Oh wait... the GOP is against paid maternity leave -guess all the women FORCED to give BIRTH will continue to have to go back to work at 6 weeks for their minimum wage jobs of $7/hr

I know women who WFH who refuse to breastfeed. You need formula -it’s literally essential for life. Basic necessity pp.

Actually, babies don't "need " artificial cow's milk based formula made in China or contaminated US factories as something " essential to their lives"

Human infants NEED Human milk, made naturally in the mother's body which not only provides ALL nutritional requirements, human breast milk is the ONLY source of transfer of the mother's immune globulins to her newborn to protect babies from various infectious illnesses.

Breast Milk is FREE and sanitary

So ironic that Republicans want to compel women to give birth, but refuse to support those very same women in breast feeding their babies -fully paid 1 year maternity leave

Instead, GOP wants to force more poor women to have babies and - at same time- start a trade war with CHINA- the main source of imported of cow's milk artificial baby formula, fail to inspect US based cow's milk artificial formula factories and allow trade monopolies to weaken the supply chain

No one needs, or should be given, a free ride year for a year so they can nurse. You already get FREE time from employers to pump and employers are forced to provide luxury nursing rooms for you. Oops, I forgot to mention other employees taking up your slack while you have your free pumping breaks.

Society is not responsible for your choice to procreate and don't give me your song and dance about your offspring paying for my social security.

You should probably stop talking. Maternity / Paternity leave is not a "free ride." What kind of a--hole even says that? People (and children with issues that require it) are healing, many dealing with mental health issues (PPD), stress, etc. Having to balance those things with work after a few weeks is extremely stressful and difficult (and my birth experience was easy and I still struggled). It is beneficial to families and societies -to have healthy well adjusted kids, parents, and workers- not to mention the morally indicate position to allow to a) allow it to happen, and b) recognize it's importance.

Your post is a callous, selfish, ignorant one. And one mostly relegated to a different era, though not yet fully, as posts like yours demonstrate. The sort of society you describe, that runs families into the ground, is not one that holds any virtue and is one that most other developed countries like ours shun. They mock us and they should. It's embarrassing. People like you are embarassing.

Put it to a vote nationwide and you will find out how wrong you are.

And people wonder why there is an opioid epidemic in America...

What does the opioid epidemic have to do with maternity leave?