How does one prep place account for 25% of TJ Admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is about race and resources. You cannot choose your race. However, you can choose how to use your resources. It is called an economic choice.

Should I drink starbucks or save for my kid's education?
Should I get a nice hair color, cut, extensions, blow dry or save for my kid's education?
Should I buy lunch at work or pack lunch from home and save for my kid's education?
Should I have a cleaner at home or save for my kid's education?
Should I live in a nice place or live in a low COL housing area and save for my kid's education?
Should I buy new clothes or buy from thrift stores and pay for my kid's education?

Asian-American parents save from meager resources for their children. They are paid less than White counterparts but they still save for their children's education. Yes, a lot go in making their kids succeed. However, we all have the choice to not have children in the first place. No excuses to make babies and then not do everything in your power to make them succeed by providing resources. No child asked to be born.

Setting aside for the moment the virulent racism of most of the assumptions in the above....

It is wrong when access to educational opportunities are dependent upon having parents who plan for them from an early age.

When access to AAP and TJ change (and they will) over the next couple of years, there will be nothing stopping parents from continuing to do everything they can to enrich their child from an educational perspective. But if it's done properly, those choices that the parents make won't have nearly as great an impact on those access points.

It's the students who are going to AAP and TJ, not the parents. But right now, the privilege of having motivated parents is masquerading as "merit" when in reality, the students have very little to do with the metrics that are being used.

Test-taking is not a relevant skill in any area of life other than educational access. It's time to stop using it as a gatekeeping mechanism.

Test taking was never a problem until Asians surpassed whites and it all of sudden became a problem.

It became a problem when people in high places realized that test taking ability is only a predictor of test taking ability.

Untrue.

Definitely true, and becomes more true as test-taking becomes a more highly specialized skill that is being taught from an earlier age.

I am a fairly unremarkable individual who scored over 150 on an IQ test and over 1500 on my SAT because my parents enrolled me in classes from an early age that were designed to make me a better test taker. I shouldn't have had the opportunities I've had growing up - I'm not especially smart and I'm not an especially hard worker. But I did graduate from TJ and I can tell you that there are a lot of other impostors like me roaming the halls there right now - many moreso than there used to be - because test-taking is an overemphasized skill in today's educational realm.

And most studies indicate prepping does not increase test scores significantly.

Then why did one company get 28% of the class of 2024? Prepping works!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is about race and resources. You cannot choose your race. However, you can choose how to use your resources. It is called an economic choice.

Should I drink starbucks or save for my kid's education?
Should I get a nice hair color, cut, extensions, blow dry or save for my kid's education?
Should I buy lunch at work or pack lunch from home and save for my kid's education?
Should I have a cleaner at home or save for my kid's education?
Should I live in a nice place or live in a low COL housing area and save for my kid's education?
Should I buy new clothes or buy from thrift stores and pay for my kid's education?

Asian-American parents save from meager resources for their children. They are paid less than White counterparts but they still save for their children's education. Yes, a lot go in making their kids succeed. However, we all have the choice to not have children in the first place. No excuses to make babies and then not do everything in your power to make them succeed by providing resources. No child asked to be born.

Setting aside for the moment the virulent racism of most of the assumptions in the above....

It is wrong when access to educational opportunities are dependent upon having parents who plan for them from an early age.

When access to AAP and TJ change (and they will) over the next couple of years, there will be nothing stopping parents from continuing to do everything they can to enrich their child from an educational perspective. But if it's done properly, those choices that the parents make won't have nearly as great an impact on those access points.

It's the students who are going to AAP and TJ, not the parents. But right now, the privilege of having motivated parents is masquerading as "merit" when in reality, the students have very little to do with the metrics that are being used.

Test-taking is not a relevant skill in any area of life other than educational access. It's time to stop using it as a gatekeeping mechanism.

Test taking was never a problem until Asians surpassed whites and it all of sudden became a problem.

It became a problem when people in high places realized that test taking ability is only a predictor of test taking ability.

Untrue.

Definitely true, and becomes more true as test-taking becomes a more highly specialized skill that is being taught from an earlier age.

I am a fairly unremarkable individual who scored over 150 on an IQ test and over 1500 on my SAT because my parents enrolled me in classes from an early age that were designed to make me a better test taker. I shouldn't have had the opportunities I've had growing up - I'm not especially smart and I'm not an especially hard worker. But I did graduate from TJ and I can tell you that there are a lot of other impostors like me roaming the halls there right now - many moreso than there used to be - because test-taking is an overemphasized skill in today's educational realm.

And most studies indicate prepping does not increase test scores significantly.

Then why did one company get 28% of the class of 2024? Prepping works!

Because they cheated

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is about race and resources. You cannot choose your race. However, you can choose how to use your resources. It is called an economic choice.

Should I drink starbucks or save for my kid's education?
Should I get a nice hair color, cut, extensions, blow dry or save for my kid's education?
Should I buy lunch at work or pack lunch from home and save for my kid's education?
Should I have a cleaner at home or save for my kid's education?
Should I live in a nice place or live in a low COL housing area and save for my kid's education?
Should I buy new clothes or buy from thrift stores and pay for my kid's education?

Asian-American parents save from meager resources for their children. They are paid less than White counterparts but they still save for their children's education. Yes, a lot go in making their kids succeed. However, we all have the choice to not have children in the first place. No excuses to make babies and then not do everything in your power to make them succeed by providing resources. No child asked to be born.

Setting aside for the moment the virulent racism of most of the assumptions in the above....

It is wrong when access to educational opportunities are dependent upon having parents who plan for them from an early age.

When access to AAP and TJ change (and they will) over the next couple of years, there will be nothing stopping parents from continuing to do everything they can to enrich their child from an educational perspective. But if it's done properly, those choices that the parents make won't have nearly as great an impact on those access points.

It's the students who are going to AAP and TJ, not the parents. But right now, the privilege of having motivated parents is masquerading as "merit" when in reality, the students have very little to do with the metrics that are being used.

Test-taking is not a relevant skill in any area of life other than educational access. It's time to stop using it as a gatekeeping mechanism.

Test taking was never a problem until Asians surpassed whites and it all of sudden became a problem.

It became a problem when people in high places realized that test taking ability is only a predictor of test taking ability.

People in high places at colleges and universities want to remove standardized testing so they can be free to admit whomever they want (UMCs, less qualified legacies, etc.) without leaving evidence that can be used against them in discrimination claims. Look at this study on the significant differences in test scores between groups: http://ceousa.org/attachments/article/1329/Preferences%20in%20Virginia%20Higher%20Education%20-%20September%202019.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I think the students on the list can kiss T10 schools goodbye- any admissions office that starts to assemble a student profile is going to run across their name on the Currie list now that it's being published and passed around

I see this as the biggest fallout.

FCPS has their hands full trying to make distance learning happen. They will be sweeping this under the rug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think the students on the list can kiss T10 schools goodbye- any admissions office that starts to assemble a student profile is going to run across their name on the Currie list now that it's being published and passed around

I see this as the biggest fallout.

FCPS has their hands full trying to make distance learning happen. They will be sweeping this under the rug.

This is actually a really good point. TJ a students who are not on this list will go out of their way to ensure that the relevant admissions officers at top schools are aware of this scandal.

[Anonymous]

I think Curiegate MUST result in a change. Every TJ Young Scholars event DS has attended has included a discussion about how prep is not necessary and that it doesn’t help.

Now that it is clear that going to one particular prep company can result in admission, I don’t see how FCPS can continue to say that prep is not a factor. They either need to provide free Curie-style prep to everyone (including a copy of the test ahead of time?) or shut down the entire school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Disagree. I think this area attracts highly gifted people to the area for jobs (government, contractors, IT, etc.) and therefore has a higher concentration of gifted kids.

And many of those children of elites go to private schools. You can't look at Fairfax County as a whole when determining how gifted FCPS kids are, since private schooling is huge and a massive game-changer.

The children of STEM workers at NIH, NASA, NSA, NSF, etc are not going to elite private schools.

I wasn't referring to politicians and diplomats. I don't think politicians are gifted nor are their children.

Doctors and their children are spread across the country. So are university professors and their children. DC isn't a huge financial sector hub. DC isn't really that big of a STEM hub either, other than perhaps computer programming jobs. What we have is more lawyers and politicians than elsewhere. We're really, truly, not more gifted than any reasonably affluent, reasonably educated area of the country.

No one said that the kids were going to "elite private schools." Many of the highly gifted people at the top of their field are exactly the types who can afford privates, and people who can easily afford privates tend to send their kids there. In McLean, the public schools are wonderful, yet many of the people there still send their kids to private school. Also, my husband is a STEM worker at a company similar to the ones you listed. Many of his coworkers put their kids in private school, at least from K-8. Of those who don't, they're still split between APS, FCPS, LCPS, and MoCo. There isn't some great concentration of brilliant people specifically in FCPS.

I would maybe give you twice the rate of gifted kids, meaning 4% would be in the national top 2%. 10% is ludicrous, and is just indicative of the widespread prepping.

DC area is the most educated area in the country so there is that.

DP but Educated does NOT mean Gifted or Smart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think Curiegate MUST result in a change. Every TJ Young Scholars event DS has attended has included a discussion about how prep is not necessary and that it doesn’t help.

Now that it is clear that going to one particular prep company can result in admission, I don’t see how FCPS can continue to say that prep is not a factor. They either need to provide free Curie-style prep to everyone (including a copy of the test ahead of time?) or shut down the entire school.

FCPS would have to change what math test they use because they are prohibited from releasing any info on the Quant-Q besides the outline of the types and number of questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is about race and resources. You cannot choose your race. However, you can choose how to use your resources. It is called an economic choice.

Should I drink starbucks or save for my kid's education?
Should I get a nice hair color, cut, extensions, blow dry or save for my kid's education?
Should I buy lunch at work or pack lunch from home and save for my kid's education?
Should I have a cleaner at home or save for my kid's education?
Should I live in a nice place or live in a low COL housing area and save for my kid's education?
Should I buy new clothes or buy from thrift stores and pay for my kid's education?

Asian-American parents save from meager resources for their children. They are paid less than White counterparts but they still save for their children's education. Yes, a lot go in making their kids succeed. However, we all have the choice to not have children in the first place. No excuses to make babies and then not do everything in your power to make them succeed by providing resources. No child asked to be born.

Setting aside for the moment the virulent racism of most of the assumptions in the above....

It is wrong when access to educational opportunities are dependent upon having parents who plan for them from an early age.

When access to AAP and TJ change (and they will) over the next couple of years, there will be nothing stopping parents from continuing to do everything they can to enrich their child from an educational perspective. But if it's done properly, those choices that the parents make won't have nearly as great an impact on those access points.

It's the students who are going to AAP and TJ, not the parents. But right now, the privilege of having motivated parents is masquerading as "merit" when in reality, the students have very little to do with the metrics that are being used.

Test-taking is not a relevant skill in any area of life other than educational access. It's time to stop using it as a gatekeeping mechanism.

Test taking was never a problem until Asians surpassed whites and it all of sudden became a problem.

It became a problem when people in high places realized that test taking ability is only a predictor of test taking ability.

People in high places at colleges and universities want to remove standardized testing so they can be free to admit whomever they want (UMCs, less qualified legacies, etc.) without leaving evidence that can be used against them in discrimination claims. Look at this study on the significant differences in test scores between groups: http://ceousa.org/attachments/article/1329/Preferences%20in%20Virginia%20Higher%20Education%20-%20September%202019.pdf

Yep, but those differences are not correlated with academic outcomes in any significant way that doesn’t also involve test-taking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Curiegate MUST result in a change. Every TJ Young Scholars event DS has attended has included a discussion about how prep is not necessary and that it doesn’t help.

Now that it is clear that going to one particular prep company can result in admission, I don’t see how FCPS can continue to say that prep is not a factor. They either need to provide free Curie-style prep to everyone (including a copy of the test ahead of time?) or shut down the entire school.

FCPS would have to change what math test they use because they are prohibited from releasing any info on the Quant-Q besides the outline of the types and number of questions.

Or go entirely “test optional”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Curiegate MUST result in a change. Every TJ Young Scholars event DS has attended has included a discussion about how prep is not necessary and that it doesn’t help.

Now that it is clear that going to one particular prep company can result in admission, I don’t see how FCPS can continue to say that prep is not a factor. They either need to provide free Curie-style prep to everyone (including a copy of the test ahead of time?) or shut down the entire school.

FCPS would have to change what math test they use because they are prohibited from releasing any info on the Quant-Q besides the outline of the types and number of questions.

Or go entirely “test optional”

PP - yes, that would be better. You can accomplish a baseline with the SOLs and a very high standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is about race and resources. You cannot choose your race. However, you can choose how to use your resources. It is called an economic choice.

Should I drink starbucks or save for my kid's education?
Should I get a nice hair color, cut, extensions, blow dry or save for my kid's education?
Should I buy lunch at work or pack lunch from home and save for my kid's education?
Should I have a cleaner at home or save for my kid's education?
Should I live in a nice place or live in a low COL housing area and save for my kid's education?
Should I buy new clothes or buy from thrift stores and pay for my kid's education?

Asian-American parents save from meager resources for their children. They are paid less than White counterparts but they still save for their children's education. Yes, a lot go in making their kids succeed. However, we all have the choice to not have children in the first place. No excuses to make babies and then not do everything in your power to make them succeed by providing resources. No child asked to be born.

Setting aside for the moment the virulent racism of most of the assumptions in the above....

It is wrong when access to educational opportunities are dependent upon having parents who plan for them from an early age.

When access to AAP and TJ change (and they will) over the next couple of years, there will be nothing stopping parents from continuing to do everything they can to enrich their child from an educational perspective. But if it's done properly, those choices that the parents make won't have nearly as great an impact on those access points.

It's the students who are going to AAP and TJ, not the parents. But right now, the privilege of having motivated parents is masquerading as "merit" when in reality, the students have very little to do with the metrics that are being used.

Test-taking is not a relevant skill in any area of life other than educational access. It's time to stop using it as a gatekeeping mechanism.

Test taking was never a problem until Asians surpassed whites and it all of sudden became a problem.

It became a problem when people in high places realized that test taking ability is only a predictor of test taking ability.

Untrue.

Definitely true, and becomes more true as test-taking becomes a more highly specialized skill that is being taught from an earlier age.

I am a fairly unremarkable individual who scored over 150 on an IQ test and over 1500 on my SAT because my parents enrolled me in classes from an early age that were designed to make me a better test taker. I shouldn't have had the opportunities I've had growing up - I'm not especially smart and I'm not an especially hard worker. But I did graduate from TJ and I can tell you that there are a lot of other impostors like me roaming the halls there right now - many moreso than there used to be - because test-taking is an overemphasized skill in today's educational realm.

Uhm...that’s kind of amazing (that you have over 150 IQ). What kind of classes did you take? At what age did you start the classes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is about race and resources. You cannot choose your race. However, you can choose how to use your resources. It is called an economic choice.

Should I drink starbucks or save for my kid's education?
Should I get a nice hair color, cut, extensions, blow dry or save for my kid's education?
Should I buy lunch at work or pack lunch from home and save for my kid's education?
Should I have a cleaner at home or save for my kid's education?
Should I live in a nice place or live in a low COL housing area and save for my kid's education?
Should I buy new clothes or buy from thrift stores and pay for my kid's education?

Asian-American parents save from meager resources for their children. They are paid less than White counterparts but they still save for their children's education. Yes, a lot go in making their kids succeed. However, we all have the choice to not have children in the first place. No excuses to make babies and then not do everything in your power to make them succeed by providing resources. No child asked to be born.

Setting aside for the moment the virulent racism of most of the assumptions in the above....

It is wrong when access to educational opportunities are dependent upon having parents who plan for them from an early age.

When access to AAP and TJ change (and they will) over the next couple of years, there will be nothing stopping parents from continuing to do everything they can to enrich their child from an educational perspective. But if it's done properly, those choices that the parents make won't have nearly as great an impact on those access points.

It's the students who are going to AAP and TJ, not the parents. But right now, the privilege of having motivated parents is masquerading as "merit" when in reality, the students have very little to do with the metrics that are being used.

Test-taking is not a relevant skill in any area of life other than educational access. It's time to stop using it as a gatekeeping mechanism.

Test taking was never a problem until Asians surpassed whites and it all of sudden became a problem.

It became a problem when people in high places realized that test taking ability is only a predictor of test taking ability.

People in high places at colleges and universities want to remove standardized testing so they can be free to admit whomever they want (UMCs, less qualified legacies, etc.) without leaving evidence that can be used against them in discrimination claims. Look at this study on the significant differences in test scores between groups: http://ceousa.org/attachments/article/1329/Preferences%20in%20Virginia%20Higher%20Education%20-%20September%202019.pdf

Yep, but those differences are not correlated with academic outcomes in any significant way that doesn’t also involve test-taking.

The Asians have both higher high school GPAs and standardized test scores than other groups. Both of those are correlated both with college performance and also with future earnings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Definitely true, and becomes more true as test-taking becomes a more highly specialized skill that is being taught from an earlier age.

I am a fairly unremarkable individual who scored over 150 on an IQ test and over 1500 on my SAT because my parents enrolled me in classes from an early age that were designed to make me a better test taker. I shouldn't have had the opportunities I've had growing up - I'm not especially smart and I'm not an especially hard worker. But I did graduate from TJ and I can tell you that there are a lot of other impostors like me roaming the halls there right now - many moreso than there used to be - because test-taking is an overemphasized skill in today's educational realm.

Uhm...that’s kind of amazing (that you have over 150 IQ). What kind of classes did you take? At what age did you start the classes?

This is funny.. I am not sure if PP is being humble or sarcastic. If you don't have the talent and ability the absorb and apply the material, throwing a ton of prep classes at you will not automatically make you smarter and it may even the demotivating in many cases. All the prepping and push from parents can only raise awareness and channel the interests in specific direction. If your parents forced to go to classes that you do not like or cannot keep up, you will ultimately resent it. No matter, how many classes I take or how much hard work I put in, I cannot become an NBA player .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is about race and resources. You cannot choose your race. However, you can choose how to use your resources. It is called an economic choice.

Should I drink starbucks or save for my kid's education?
Should I get a nice hair color, cut, extensions, blow dry or save for my kid's education?
Should I buy lunch at work or pack lunch from home and save for my kid's education?
Should I have a cleaner at home or save for my kid's education?
Should I live in a nice place or live in a low COL housing area and save for my kid's education?
Should I buy new clothes or buy from thrift stores and pay for my kid's education?

Asian-American parents save from meager resources for their children. They are paid less than White counterparts but they still save for their children's education. Yes, a lot go in making their kids succeed. However, we all have the choice to not have children in the first place. No excuses to make babies and then not do everything in your power to make them succeed by providing resources. No child asked to be born.

Setting aside for the moment the virulent racism of most of the assumptions in the above....

It is wrong when access to educational opportunities are dependent upon having parents who plan for them from an early age.

When access to AAP and TJ change (and they will) over the next couple of years, there will be nothing stopping parents from continuing to do everything they can to enrich their child from an educational perspective. But if it's done properly, those choices that the parents make won't have nearly as great an impact on those access points.

It's the students who are going to AAP and TJ, not the parents. But right now, the privilege of having motivated parents is masquerading as "merit" when in reality, the students have very little to do with the metrics that are being used.

Test-taking is not a relevant skill in any area of life other than educational access. It's time to stop using it as a gatekeeping mechanism.

Test taking was never a problem until Asians surpassed whites and it all of sudden became a problem.

It became a problem when people in high places realized that test taking ability is only a predictor of test taking ability.

Untrue.

Definitely true, and becomes more true as test-taking becomes a more highly specialized skill that is being taught from an earlier age.

I am a fairly unremarkable individual who scored over 150 on an IQ test and over 1500 on my SAT because my parents enrolled me in classes from an early age that were designed to make me a better test taker. I shouldn't have had the opportunities I've had growing up - I'm not especially smart and I'm not an especially hard worker. But I did graduate from TJ and I can tell you that there are a lot of other impostors like me roaming the halls there right now - many moreso than there used to be - because test-taking is an overemphasized skill in today's educational realm.

Uhm...that’s kind of amazing (that you have over 150 IQ). What kind of classes did you take? At what age did you start the classes?

I don't actually believe that I have an IQ of over 150 - nowhere close. But I was able to score that on a test when I was 10 years old largely because of familiarity with material that I saw on those tests through things like CTY camps and test-taking seminars. And by participating in Math Sequence courses I was able to get to Algebra 1 by grade 6 - which was much rarer when I was growing up - leading to PreCalc by grade 9. But I had no foundations to speak of, just a bunch of hyper-acceleration, and I crashed and burned when I got to Calculus in grade 10.