Harvard tell Trump to pound sand

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anybody actually read the demands from this administration?

They want to remove all courses, students and teachers that are deemed anti-Israel or pro-Palestinian.

Funny how they can't do anything about school shootings but will do something if it hurts Israel's feelings

How many Harvard professors are conservative, pro-Trump Republicans who are allowed to freely express their viewpoints?

Allen Dershowitz, for one.

That's a start. 1 and?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Current student at Harvard and I don't approve. Harvard has to comply with civil rights laws. I have to comply with them, you have to comply, employers have to comply, and universities have to comply too.

How is this a violation of civil rights laws?

Have you read the letter from the administration? A quick summary: Harvard must immediately begin choosing applicants based on merit and not based on race, sex, etc. Harvard must discipline the students who participated in the hate crime of assaulting Jewish students in 2023. Harvard must stop including antisemitic texts or materials in its curriculum.

All of these are civil rights issues. Let's play a game. If it had been white supremacists beating black students, would that be a civil rights issue? If the request was to stop teaching materials racist against black people, would that not be a civil rights issue? And re admissions, either you believe in merit based evaluations or you believe in giving advantages to certain races. SCOTUS has been very clear that choosing based on race is a civil rights violation.

That's a very fancy way of saying the government can require all people to be nice to Jews under penalty of whatever. If that is the government you wish for, please exercise your right of return.

That’s literally the whole point of civil rights legislation.

Black people can eat at the diner counter and Jewish students can walk across the campus without being harassed.

+1

😂😂😂 +1, indeed

PP wants to equate (A) centuries of slavery, lynching, systemic violence and mistreatment, violations of civil rights under color of law, vigilante racism, etc. with (B) college students who are uncomfortable hearing or seeing criticisms about a foreign country - a country whose policies and actions, mind you, have been condemned over and over again by essentially the entire planet.

I guess we have to suspend disbelief and listen to dipshits tell us that words hurt more than white phosphorus bombs dropped on churches and shelters. Oh, the feelings of it all …

So you don't believe Jews should be protected. We get it. We disagree.

Wrong. I believe in equal rights for all, including Jewish Americans.

But what are you referring to
… protected from what? From having to see or hear criticisms of Israel, a foreign nation scorned by the entire planet for its policies and actions? Yeah, you can F right the F off if that’s what you’re arguing they “should be protected” from. Nobody has a right to silence others.

Now it’s your turn - cite where Jewish American college students these past two years have faced mistreatment in the same universe of what African Americans and others (Arab Americans, Asian Americans, women, LGBTQ, etc.) have faced here in America for centuries … or just point me to where Jewish American students were attacked these past two years like the anti-war protestors were attacked by pro-Israel terrorists out on the West Coast last spring. Just one example will suffice … we’ll wait.

DP. If you believe in equal rights for all, why are you comparing the suffering of different Americans? You either believe everyone should be protected, or you don't. If you do, then you should be the first one calling for Harvard and other schools to protect their rights. But you're not. Instead, you're trying to minimize their suffering.

If protecting all civil rights was the goal than it wouldn’t be focused on antisemitism and specific schools would not be singled out as I guarantee all schools have faced issues. Further, what is needed to resolve the issue wouldn’t be targeting certain topics of study.

It's called executive (or prosecutorial) discretion. The DOJ has done so under many Democratic presidents. As for certain topics of study being targeted, please provide examples.

The administration does not have the legal right to make any of those demands they listed in the letter. You are also confusing government agencies or or didn’t actually read the demand letter. The letter to Harvard was signed by the Department of Education, HHS and GSA. The DOJ did not sign the letter.

What part of "executive discretion" did you not understand. DOJ was cited d as an example. The administration clearly thinks Harvard's actions are unlawful (and egregious) and has decided to make an example of it for other universities. Are you saying it can't do that? What happened to letting the courts decide?

The letter isn’t enforceable.

Removing tax exempt status is also unlawful. A president can’t directly or indirectly remove tax exempt status. What did Trump do? Tweet about it. That man is incapable of keeping his trap shut.

Groups have their tax exempt status removed all the time. If Harvard is not acting in the public interest, they can have their tax exempt status removed. Just as Bob Jones University had its tax exempt status removed because it didn't allow interracial dating.

Are you saying Harvard is racially discriminating?

Yes, there is documentation of lowered standards of admission for some groups to try to obtain more diversity.

DP.

Not only that, but Harvard has clearly handled cases of alleged antisemitism quite differently than it handled previous cases of alleged discrimination against other groups.

Big picture, this isn’t an either/or choice. Both things can be true here: Harvard and its ilk have engaged in unprincipled and discriminatory conduct AND Trump’s attack on them is pretextual, hypocritical, and dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anybody actually read the demands from this administration?

They want to remove all courses, students and teachers that are deemed anti-Israel or pro-Palestinian.

Funny how they can't do anything about school shootings but will do something if it hurts Israel's feelings

How many Harvard professors are conservative, pro-Trump Republicans who are allowed to freely express their viewpoints?

Allen Dershowitz, for one.

Almost none. The Harvard Crimson’s annual survey of political views show a grotesque lack of viewpoint diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Current student at Harvard and I don't approve. Harvard has to comply with civil rights laws. I have to comply with them, you have to comply, employers have to comply, and universities have to comply too.

How is this a violation of civil rights laws?

Have you read the letter from the administration? A quick summary: Harvard must immediately begin choosing applicants based on merit and not based on race, sex, etc. Harvard must discipline the students who participated in the hate crime of assaulting Jewish students in 2023. Harvard must stop including antisemitic texts or materials in its curriculum.

All of these are civil rights issues. Let's play a game. If it had been white supremacists beating black students, would that be a civil rights issue? If the request was to stop teaching materials racist against black people, would that not be a civil rights issue? And re admissions, either you believe in merit based evaluations or you believe in giving advantages to certain races. SCOTUS has been very clear that choosing based on race is a civil rights violation.

That's a very fancy way of saying the government can require all people to be nice to Jews under penalty of whatever. If that is the government you wish for, please exercise your right of return.

That’s literally the whole point of civil rights legislation.

Black people can eat at the diner counter and Jewish students can walk across the campus without being harassed.

+1

😂😂😂 +1, indeed

PP wants to equate (A) centuries of slavery, lynching, systemic violence and mistreatment, violations of civil rights under color of law, vigilante racism, etc. with (B) college students who are uncomfortable hearing or seeing criticisms about a foreign country - a country whose policies and actions, mind you, have been condemned over and over again by essentially the entire planet.

I guess we have to suspend disbelief and listen to dipshits tell us that words hurt more than white phosphorus bombs dropped on churches and shelters. Oh, the feelings of it all …

So you don't believe Jews should be protected. We get it. We disagree.

Wrong. I believe in equal rights for all, including Jewish Americans.

But what are you referring to
… protected from what? From having to see or hear criticisms of Israel, a foreign nation scorned by the entire planet for its policies and actions? Yeah, you can F right the F off if that’s what you’re arguing they “should be protected” from. Nobody has a right to silence others.

Now it’s your turn - cite where Jewish American college students these past two years have faced mistreatment in the same universe of what African Americans and others (Arab Americans, Asian Americans, women, LGBTQ, etc.) have faced here in America for centuries … or just point me to where Jewish American students were attacked these past two years like the anti-war protestors were attacked by pro-Israel terrorists out on the West Coast last spring. Just one example will suffice … we’ll wait.

DP. If you believe in equal rights for all, why are you comparing the suffering of different Americans? You either believe everyone should be protected, or you don't. If you do, then you should be the first one calling for Harvard and other schools to protect their rights. But you're not. Instead, you're trying to minimize their suffering.

If protecting all civil rights was the goal than it wouldn’t be focused on antisemitism and specific schools would not be singled out as I guarantee all schools have faced issues. Further, what is needed to resolve the issue wouldn’t be targeting certain topics of study.

It's called executive (or prosecutorial) discretion. The DOJ has done so under many Democratic presidents. As for certain topics of study being targeted, please provide examples.

The administration does not have the legal right to make any of those demands they listed in the letter. You are also confusing government agencies or or didn’t actually read the demand letter. The letter to Harvard was signed by the Department of Education, HHS and GSA. The DOJ did not sign the letter.

What part of "executive discretion" did you not understand. DOJ was cited d as an example. The administration clearly thinks Harvard's actions are unlawful (and egregious) and has decided to make an example of it for other universities. Are you saying it can't do that? What happened to letting the courts decide?

The letter isn’t enforceable.

Removing tax exempt status is also unlawful. A president can’t directly or indirectly remove tax exempt status. What did Trump do? Tweet about it. That man is incapable of keeping his trap shut.

Groups have their tax exempt status removed all the time. If Harvard is not acting in the public interest, they can have their tax exempt status removed. Just as Bob Jones University had its tax exempt status removed because it didn't allow interracial dating.

Are you saying Harvard is racially discriminating?

Yes, there is documentation of lowered standards of admission for some groups to try to obtain more diversity.

DP.

Not only that, but Harvard has clearly handled cases of alleged antisemitism quite differently than it handled previous cases of alleged discrimination against other groups.

Big picture, this isn’t an either/or choice. Both things can be true here: Harvard and its ilk have engaged in unprincipled and discriminatory conduct AND Trump’s attack on them is pretextual, hypocritical, and dangerous.

+1 PP here. I agree with all you said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anybody actually read the demands from this administration?

They want to remove all courses, students and teachers that are deemed anti-Israel or pro-Palestinian.

Funny how they can't do anything about school shootings but will do something if it hurts Israel's feelings

How many Harvard professors are conservative, pro-Trump Republicans who are allowed to freely express their viewpoints?

Allen Dershowitz, for one.

Almost none. The Harvard Crimson’s annual survey of political views show a grotesque lack of viewpoint diversity.

How can a lack of diversity be grotesque when the goal is to eliminate diversity?

You don't want DEI hires do you? Maybe no qualified conservatives applied? Maybe they're more comfortable in Lynchburg.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anybody actually read the demands from this administration?

They want to remove all courses, students and teachers that are deemed anti-Israel or pro-Palestinian.

Funny how they can't do anything about school shootings but will do something if it hurts Israel's feelings

How many Harvard professors are conservative, pro-Trump Republicans who are allowed to freely express their viewpoints?

Why are you assuming there should be an *equal* number of people expressing Pro-Trump viewpoints. One is enough.

To me the dearth of pro-Trump viewpoints among the educated points to the fact that anyone with reasonable critical thinking skills and basic knowledge of history, government, etc. would never be pro-Trump. He's an idiot whose ideas about government are antithetical to the American system of democracy and laws.

Why should we have to shoe-horn in viewpoints that promote violence, hate, disregard of the law, disregard of human rights etc. How does that benefit everyone? Go start your own hate university.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anybody actually read the demands from this administration?

They want to remove all courses, students and teachers that are deemed anti-Israel or pro-Palestinian.

Funny how they can't do anything about school shootings but will do something if it hurts Israel's feelings

How many Harvard professors are conservative, pro-Trump Republicans who are allowed to freely express their viewpoints?

Why are you assuming there should be an *equal* number of people expressing Pro-Trump viewpoints. One is enough.

To me the dearth of pro-Trump viewpoints among the educated points to the fact that anyone with reasonable critical thinking skills and basic knowledge of history, government, etc. would never be pro-Trump. He's an idiot whose ideas about government are antithetical to the American system of democracy and laws.

Why should we have to shoe-horn in viewpoints that promote violence, hate, disregard of the law, disregard of human rights etc. How does that benefit everyone? Go start your own hate university.

And I would add that if you are going to start demanding QUOTAS of conservative thinkers, that sure sound a lot like DEI to me.

RWNJs only want DEI that benefits them. Complete hypocrites as always.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anybody actually read the demands from this administration?

They want to remove all courses, students and teachers that are deemed anti-Israel or pro-Palestinian.

Funny how they can't do anything about school shootings but will do something if it hurts Israel's feelings

How many Harvard professors are conservative, pro-Trump Republicans who are allowed to freely express their viewpoints?

Why are you assuming there should be an *equal* number of people expressing Pro-Trump viewpoints. One is enough.

To me the dearth of pro-Trump viewpoints among the educated points to the fact that anyone with reasonable critical thinking skills and basic knowledge of history, government, etc. would never be pro-Trump. He's an idiot whose ideas about government are antithetical to the American system of democracy and laws.

Why should we have to shoe-horn in viewpoints that promote violence, hate, disregard of the law, disregard of human rights etc. How does that benefit everyone? Go start your own hate university.

Where did I say an equal number? You clearly don't want any opposing viewpoints. FWIW I voted for Harris with misgivings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anybody actually read the demands from this administration?

They want to remove all courses, students and teachers that are deemed anti-Israel or pro-Palestinian.

Funny how they can't do anything about school shootings but will do something if it hurts Israel's feelings

How many Harvard professors are conservative, pro-Trump Republicans who are allowed to freely express their viewpoints?

Why are you assuming there should be an *equal* number of people expressing Pro-Trump viewpoints. One is enough.

To me the dearth of pro-Trump viewpoints among the educated points to the fact that anyone with reasonable critical thinking skills and basic knowledge of history, government, etc. would never be pro-Trump. He's an idiot whose ideas about government are antithetical to the American system of democracy and laws.

Why should we have to shoe-horn in viewpoints that promote violence, hate, disregard of the law, disregard of human rights etc. How does that benefit everyone? Go start your own hate university.

That's what Harvard said when they supported eugenics and conducted research on Cuban sugarcane slave plantations.

Educated people are liable for many an ignoramus thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anybody actually read the demands from this administration?

They want to remove all courses, students and teachers that are deemed anti-Israel or pro-Palestinian.

Funny how they can't do anything about school shootings but will do something if it hurts Israel's feelings

How many Harvard professors are conservative, pro-Trump Republicans who are allowed to freely express their viewpoints?

Allen Dershowitz, for one.

Almost none. The Harvard Crimson’s annual survey of political views show a grotesque lack of viewpoint diversity.

Poor baby. Go to Hillsdale if you want to be spoon fed MAGA pablum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anybody actually read the demands from this administration?

They want to remove all courses, students and teachers that are deemed anti-Israel or pro-Palestinian.

Funny how they can't do anything about school shootings but will do something if it hurts Israel's feelings

How many Harvard professors are conservative, pro-Trump Republicans who are allowed to freely express their viewpoints?

Allen Dershowitz, for one.

Almost none. The Harvard Crimson’s annual survey of political views show a grotesque lack of viewpoint diversity.

How can a lack of diversity be grotesque when the goal is to eliminate diversity?

You don't want DEI hires do you? Maybe no qualified conservatives applied? Maybe they're more comfortable in Lynchburg.

Me? I’m fine with DEI.

I’m not fine with universities replacing inquiry and critical thinking with indoctrination. See, eg, the Columbia School of Social Work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anybody actually read the demands from this administration?

They want to remove all courses, students and teachers that are deemed anti-Israel or pro-Palestinian.

Funny how they can't do anything about school shootings but will do something if it hurts Israel's feelings

How many Harvard professors are conservative, pro-Trump Republicans who are allowed to freely express their viewpoints?

Why are you assuming there should be an *equal* number of people expressing Pro-Trump viewpoints. One is enough.

To me the dearth of pro-Trump viewpoints among the educated points to the fact that anyone with reasonable critical thinking skills and basic knowledge of history, government, etc. would never be pro-Trump. He's an idiot whose ideas about government are antithetical to the American system of democracy and laws.

Why should we have to shoe-horn in viewpoints that promote violence, hate, disregard of the law, disregard of human rights etc. How does that benefit everyone? Go start your own hate university.

And I would add that if you are going to start demanding QUOTAS of conservative thinkers, that sure sound a lot like DEI to me.

RWNJs only want DEI that benefits them. Complete hypocrites as always.

I did not demand any quotas. I am Nnot MAGA. I am not a hypocrite. You sure jump to conclusions. My question was if Harvard had any conservative thinking professors.

[Anonymous]

Tax the rich?

Yes, tax Harvard right out of existence. The DNC too for that matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anybody actually read the demands from this administration?

They want to remove all courses, students and teachers that are deemed anti-Israel or pro-Palestinian.

Funny how they can't do anything about school shootings but will do something if it hurts Israel's feelings

How many Harvard professors are conservative, pro-Trump Republicans who are allowed to freely express their viewpoints?

Allen Dershowitz, for one.

Almost none. The Harvard Crimson’s annual survey of political views show a grotesque lack of viewpoint diversity.

Harvard has plenty of conservatives. But no scientist at any university likes Trump, and there are almost no other professors who do in any field at a serious research university, because he lies all the time, sees no need for data or logic, and uses bullying and intimidation rather than reasoned argument to get things done. while there may be a few humanities disciplines that have had problems with activism, the spirit of all academic inquiry and accomplishment is still showing data and sources, record keeping and transparency and peer review.

The rule of law and statistical analysis are not issues related to "viewpoint diversity." It is just that being "pro Trump" is incompatible with support for these pillars of any serious university level inquiry. Similarly, the need for logical, civil argument and reasoned inquiry are also seen as opposition to Trump, whatever the premise of the argument. These aspects of university discourse date back to Plato and Aristotle (who, btw, were quite conservative in their political leanings). Professors thus tend overwhelmingly to see these norms as central to their way of thinking, and thus find support of Trump incompatible with university level thinking.

And yes, of course, this whole letter has nothing to do with "viewpoint diversity," and is really just about control, power, and Trump's bottomless need for obsequious flattery he shares with all dictators and aspiring dictators.

[Anonymous]

I am not sure which is worse, that this is a cover up, or if this is true

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/18/business/trump-harvard-letter-mistake.htm

neither is a good look