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Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss
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Anonymous
Because the only coach doing anything right is the one I'M paying to teach MY kid, silly. He's from (insert foreign country here) and constantly tells us everything Americans are doing wrong. I've never looked it up, but I'm sure he was a top professional in his home country before he moved to America for the noble purpose of spreading soccer to us heathens. Not like those coaches from (insert another foreign country here) who just came to the USA to take advantage of gullible parents. The rest of you are just wasting your time and money. |
Anonymous
Good one. |
Anonymous
| Serious question: People bash our "pay to play system". Can someone explain what is different about our system? In other countries are soccer leagues free to all kids? If so, who pays? Federal/state/local taxes? |
Anonymous
I'm not anti travel at all and glad my kid plays CCL. It just seems ridiculous that a team like Richmond United has to drive to Ohio for a league game. Especially when they are just a couple hours from Washington Spirit or Loudoun or probably several others that would better competition than whatever team gets scraped together in Ohio. Those leagues might have different goals but they are fighting over the same players. Maybe they should have worked together with a goal of teaching teenagers how to play better soccer. |
Anonymous
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"probably several others that would better competition than whatever team gets scraped together in Ohio. "
WOW!!! You really need to get out of your bible. Jesus northern Virginia is not the center of the soccer universe. It is real simple, travel bothers you. The DA and ECNL are national leagues. The DA is scouting players on the national level. There is no sense or point in your assuming that Loudoun would be better than "whatever Ohio can scrape together" Could you be a bigger douche bag if you tried? Don't put your kid in either league and you won't be bothered by their schedule or travel. |
Anonymous
| *bubble not bible |
Anonymous
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Everyone gets a trophy
Everyone plays Everyone makes a team Play if you can pay Team A-E Coach/Team manager kids with less talent Obsession with coaches with foreign accents Coaches having 3 teams Too many clubs/leagues US soccer will never succeed. |
Anonymous
Good question. Short answer: in the rest of the world professional clubs invest in youth training in the hope that they will see a return on their investment. Longer answer: It helps to keep in mind the following key differences between our system and the rest of the world. 1. We don't have an open system. In the rest of the world every independent club has a path to advance to the top division through sporting merit (i.e., promotion/relegation). Promotion carries the promise of financial rewards in terms of increased ticket & TV revenues, in addition to obvious prestige. So there's an incentive, and it's competitive. In other words - the free market at work. In the US, our professional leagues are run as a monopoly. Instead of independent clubs competing against each other, we essentially have one entity (MLS) with a lot of franchises. There is little to no incentive to invest and improve, and no real penalty for failure. What does this have to do with youth development and pay to play, you ask? Read on ... 2. The transfer market. In the rest of world, player contracts are bought and sold between clubs. Again, the free market does its job here. Good players cost more. So if you want to have a good team, it can cost a lot of money. But, if you develop good players yourself, you don't have to pay anything for them. So if you develop a player who is good enough to make your first team, that could save you millions or tens of millions of dollars (in the case of Barcelona, hundreds of millions of dollars if you think of the combined value of Messi, Iniesta, Busquets, Puyol ... all academy products). If you have a surplus - for example your youth coaches developed a great striker but your fist team is already very deep at that position - you can sell that player and use the money you make to turn around and buy a player in a position where your first team needs more help. Like everything else, the transfer market is driven by real competition - the desire to win on the field. And it works this way at all levels - not just top division but down to the 3rd, 4th, etc...., because of promotion and relegation. Even a small, 4th division club has an incentive to produce good youth players who can either help the first team get promoted some day, or be sold to buy players who can help the 1st team get promoted some day. Because promotion means more money. And each club is an independent business trying to survive and thrive. 3. Training Compensation. This is often confused and conflated with Solidarity Payments (discussed below) but it's important to keep in mind that they are two different things. Training compensation means that when a player signs a contract with a new club, that club has to reimburse the players' youth club (or clubs, on a pro rata basis) for the money they invested in training the player. So even if a player leaves before they are old enough to sign their first pro contract (so there no transfer fees yet), the clubs that invested in youth training aren't left completely high and dry. 4. Solidarity Payments. This can be a big one. The rule states that every time a player is transferred prior to age 23, 5% of the transfer fee goes to the youth clubs who trained him. The percentages are broken down by year so if a player moved clubs during his teenage years, all of the clubs involved in his development would still get a share. Take Mesut Ozil as an example. He spent most of his youth career at small local (but still professional) club Essen. He moved to Shalke before he turned 18, so Essen got no solidarity payment but did get training compensation. Then Shalke sold him to Bremen for $5 mn. That's $250K to the youth club. A couple of years later he was sold to Real Madrid for around $15 mn. Essen built a new stadium for their youth academy. And that's just one example. This is happening every time a player gets bought and sold - all over the world except the US. Hopefully that helps answer your question. The reasons soccer development elsewhere isn't pay-to-play are the same reasons why their development is also so much better -- all of those factors work together to create real, tangible incentives for clubs to develop marketable professional players. It doesn't make financial sense to charge youth players a few thousand dollars a year, and risk missing out on a player who could potentially be worth millions to the club down the road. Especially because that club can be sure that its cross town rivals are doing everything they can to beat them in every way possible. Because they are competing in an open market, no one can rely on their national federation simply arbitrarily selecting them as the "best" (i.e. - our DA system), or marketing whatever "elite premier word class" league they play in. Instead - the clubs actually have to produce results when it comes to youth development. And those results are not measured in terms of U-little tournament trophies, state cups, gotsoccer points, or any other BS criteria we use here. The only results that matter for youth coaches is - are they producing future professionals. That is what their jobs depend on - not short term results in terms of wins/losses but long terms results in terms of teaching and developing players. When you think about all that, it almost seems unfair, doesn't it? I mean, how can we compete with a system like that? Here's the kicker, all of it - Pro/Rel, Training Compensation, Solidarity Payments, the transfer market -- the whole system, is actually mandated by FIFA statutes. For some reason though, they just aren't applied in the U.S. So instead we have single entity, "the draft" (a joke to the rest of the world), and pay-to-play youth development system in which parents are consumers and all of the financial incentives for youth coaches favor short term results over long term player development. Personally, I think FIFA is just trying to screw us. |
Anonymous
You don't have to call me names just because I have a different view than you do. What's wrong with thinking Loudoun could compete in any league they were to play in ? Many ECNL teams are a joke and most Loudoun teams are good. Just because something is national league does not mean they have better players or coaches than a regional or local league. It is just a marketing ploy that you have clearly bought into. Now if there were some kind of nationwide pro/rel to get into a national league then yes those platforms might be better. As it is now it's just marketing with little substance. It is great for parents or coaches like yourself that enjoy bragging about it being NATIONAL league though. As far as US Soccer scouting DA games, have you actually seen our national team play ? They may find better talent scouting parks and rec games. |
Anonymous
Tired, worn out cliches. Everyone plays- Why shouldn't every kid have an opportunity? Everyone makes a team- there should be a team of similar abilities for kids to play on. Play if you can pay- National Healthcare is a sin tantamount to socialism but soccer should be free? Team A-E- Again, if kids want to play why shouldn't they have the opportunity to play with kids of similar abilities? Coach/Team manager kids with less talent- Yawn... The oldest sour grapes bitch in all of youth sports. Coaches having 3 teams- I know right? And your kids math teacher only has one class too. To many clubs/leagues- As long as there are kids who want to play why do you care? |
Anonymous
Why don't you ask Loudoun why they didn't apply to the GDA? I'll give you the answer, because it would cut into their bottom line. GDA is not cheap to be in and neither is ECNL. Loudoun is more than capable of participating in ECNL or GDA but that doesn't mean that many of the clubs that are in ECNL are not. If however you don't think ECNL or GDA are worth it and Loudoun is good enough then why do you care where Richmond drives to for games? For someprobably several others that would better competition than whatever team gets scraped together in Ohio. one who insists ECNL is just marketing you seem awful obsessed over it. Promotion/Relegation does exist in ECNL, ask Virginia Rush about being kicked out for under performing. GDA and DA has Promotion/Relegation too. Ask McLean about being kicked out years ago because they didn't have enough lighted fields and it was causing their kids to practice far to late. |
Anonymous
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"Personally, I think FIFA is just trying to screw us."
Agreed with everything until this. It's not FIFA it's MLS that doesn't allow us to make these changes to be like the rest of the world. It doesn't help that the MLS president sits on the board of US Soccer. How can the federation make independent decisions when it's being influenced by the country's soccer monopoly instead of making decisions for all clubs. Conflict of interest. |
Anonymous
Indeed. |
Anonymous
This was a nice summary, unfortunately it ignores many reasons why our system is the way it is. The MLS is mostly a joke and the league as a whole and the clubs on a whole don't have the money to run academy programs that are free. They would also currently would not be able to produce talent at a international level. The European model allows the clubs to make money off if the players. The players are sold like a product. Our professional athletes fought hard for free agency to eliminate this. But, if you can get past free agency your next hurdle is child labor laws. But the largest hurdle is simply that the MLS is not a relevant league and does not have deep enough pockets to either develop or even draw in talent even in the U.S. not to even mention international players. Again, as MLS matures and grows I think the best we can hope for is a farm league system much like baseball or hockey. I know, more leagues, but the North American hockey product has proven extremely successful on the international stage with its current structure. We don't need to copy everything Europe does to be successful but clearly the way we are doing it isn't working either. |
Anonymous
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"The European model allows the clubs to make money off if the players. The players are sold like a product. Our professional athletes fought hard for free agency to eliminate this. "
Players in Europe also have free agency. Buy and selling works in the same way as "Trades" in other American sports but instead of sending players to the other team they send $$$ and sometimes include players to reduce the cash amount. By definition a trade is still taking place but unlike the player for player trade it includes cash. Can't speak as to how child labor laws impact the rules in US but Europe also has them. The solidarity and training payments are being paid for the club and its staff that have developed the player. Not a way to exploit the child and they were very unlikely making a dime off of the player while he was at the club. |