Compelling conversion is explicitly prohibited in Islam

[Anonymous]

The Quran EXPLICITLY prohibits compelling nonMuslims to convert as evidenced by the following verses:

“Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in God has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And God hears and knows all things.” (Quran 2:256)

God says: “If it had been your Lord’s will, all of the people on Earth would have believed. Would you then compel the people so to have them believe?” (Quran 10:99)

God says: “So if they dispute with you, say ‘I have submitted my whole self to God, and so have those who follow me.’ And say to the People of the Scripture and to the unlearned: ‘Do you also submit yourselves?’ If they do, then they are on right guidance. But if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message. And in God’s sight are all of His servants.” (Quran 3:20)

ISIS' treatment of non-Sunni Muslims and non-Muslims goes directly against the Quran. Therefore, the vast majority of Muslim countries and Muslim organizations have denounced ISIS and condemned their barbaric actions. Conservative media may not always cover this, however: http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/08/21/muslim-leaders-have-roundly-denounced-islamic-s/200498

[Anonymous]

So why are people being given the choice of converting or being killed? Today, I mean. Are you saying this to convince the Muslims who are doing this that they are wrong, or to show us that those extremists are wrong? Or to tell us that our assumptions are wrong? Because our assumptions are based on what we are learning from world events. If your beef is with the Muslims who are actually doing what you say is against the Quran, then that's interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So why are people being given the choice of converting or being killed? Today, I mean. Are you saying this to convince the Muslims who are doing this that they are wrong, or to show us that those extremists are wrong? Or to tell us that our assumptions are wrong? Because our assumptions are based on what we are learning from world events. If your beef is with the Muslims who are actually doing what you say is against the Quran, then that's interesting.

PP here -- never mind, sorry for the nonsensical post.

[Anonymous]

Forced conversion IS against Islam. The way Islam has spread to communities it conquered is not by forced conversion, but by making non-Muslimness economically unattractive, and Muslimness both economically and socially attractive. I remember reading a study a few years back that looked at prevalence of birth records and names (Muslim vs. non-Muslim) and it figured that it took approximately 200 years for the conquered area to assume Islam as majority religion.

[Anonymous]

I wish the media would cover more about Muslims who are against what the extremists are doing.

[Anonymous]

OP, could you please explain what Dhimmis are?

In that explanation, could you please include the special taxes they have to pay to Muslims, per the Quran?

Could you please address whether you think taxing non-Muslims is a form of economic coercion? If you don't think so, why not?

Could you please explain what the Quran says about how polytheists should be treated?

TIA!

[Anonymous]

What makes you think that ISIS Muslims are "good" Muslims or doing things in accordance with Muslim doctrine? They are terrorists! It's as if you are surprised that the Westboro Baptist Church is not in accordance with mainstream Baptism. DUH!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, could you please explain what Dhimmis are?

In that explanation, could you please include the special taxes they have to pay to Muslims, per the Quran?

Could you please address whether you think taxing non-Muslims is a form of economic coercion? If you don't think so, why not?

Could you please explain what the Quran says about how polytheists should be treated?

TIA!

Taxing came in exchange for waived duty to serve in Muslim armies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Forced conversion IS against Islam. The way Islam has spread to communities it conquered is not by forced conversion, but by making non-Muslimness economically unattractive, and Muslimness both economically and socially attractive. I remember reading a study a few years back that looked at prevalence of birth records and names (Muslim vs. non-Muslim) and it figured that it took approximately 200 years for the conquered area to assume Islam as majority religion.

I think it was determined that by 2030 it would be the dominant religion in the United States, I believe the source is the US Cencus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forced conversion IS against Islam. The way Islam has spread to communities it conquered is not by forced conversion, but by making non-Muslimness economically unattractive, and Muslimness both economically and socially attractive. I remember reading a study a few years back that looked at prevalence of birth records and names (Muslim vs. non-Muslim) and it figured that it took approximately 200 years for the conquered area to assume Islam as majority religion.

I think it was determined that by 2030 it would be the dominant religion in the United States, I believe the source is the US Cencus.

Oh gawd. You're not going there again, are you? By all means, give us a real source, from the Census or another source. Our problem is that Jeff has told us that contradicting you is simply wrong, and we know he'll come on and call us names. So could you please, oh wise one, at least give us a link to document your own claims, which, oh wonderful one, we know to be true, it's just that we'd sort of, kind of, after all these many pages, see actual proof of this claim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, could you please explain what Dhimmis are?

In that explanation, could you please include the special taxes they have to pay to Muslims, per the Quran?

Could you please address whether you think taxing non-Muslims is a form of economic coercion? If you don't think so, why not?

Could you please explain what the Quran says about how polytheists should be treated?

TIA!

Taxing came in exchange for waived duty to serve in Muslim armies.

Could Muslim men get out of the duty to serve in the army? Or is jihad obligatory on all Muslim men?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, could you please explain what Dhimmis are?

In that explanation, could you please include the special taxes they have to pay to Muslims, per the Quran?

Could you please address whether you think taxing non-Muslims is a form of economic coercion? If you don't think so, why not?

Could you please explain what the Quran says about how polytheists should be treated?

TIA!

Taxing came in exchange for waived duty to serve in Muslim armies.

You didn't answer the questions. Is the tax on dhimmis 10% or some other figure?

How do you think this might affect a dhimmi's willingness to embrace Islam?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, could you please explain what Dhimmis are?

Dhimmi's are non-Muslims who have "protected" status in Dar al-Islam (country ruled by Islam). The State is required to protect them in all military and civil matters. Because they are "protected," they are also allowed to continue following their religion.



In that explanation, could you please include the special taxes they have to pay to Muslims, per the Quran?
Sure..this is a very good definition provided by Dr. Monqiz As-Saqqar, Ph.D in Christian Doctrines and Scriptures, Faculty of Usul al-Din, Umm al-Qura University, Saudi Arabia:
Jizya" is derived from the root "Jaza" or "compensate". Arabs usually say the phrase "Jaza, yajzi" which means "compensate" or 'reward" if a person rewards another for the service rendered by the latter. "Jizya" is a derived term in the form of "ficla" from "Mujazã" which is the noun "compensation", meaning "a sum of money given in return for protection". Ibn Al-Mutaraz said: "It is derived from "’idjzã" or "substitute" or "sufficiency" because it suffices as a substitute for the "dhimmi's[2] embracement of Islam"


Could you please address whether you think taxing non-Muslims is a form of economic coercion? If you don't think so, why not?

No, I don't think it amounts to coercion of any form. I recognize, however, that it may appear so on its face. But the Jizya is a tax levied on non-Muslims in lieu of military service which is required for Muslims but not for non-Muslims. The amount of Jizya is quite a bit less than the zakat, which is also levied but only on Muslims. The non-Muslims paying Jizya were exempt from military service but were entitled to full protection.

Could you please explain what the Quran says about how polytheists should be treated?
Gladly. This answer is more extensive, however, so I will answer it in a new post later this evening.
TIA!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forced conversion IS against Islam. The way Islam has spread to communities it conquered is not by forced conversion, but by making non-Muslimness economically unattractive, and Muslimness both economically and socially attractive. I remember reading a study a few years back that looked at prevalence of birth records and names (Muslim vs. non-Muslim) and it figured that it took approximately 200 years for the conquered area to assume Islam as majority religion.

I think it was determined that by 2030 it would be the dominant religion in the United States, I believe the source is the US Cencus.

Oh gawd. You're not going there again, are you? By all means, give us a real source, from the Census or another source. Our problem is that Jeff has told us that contradicting you is simply wrong, and we know he'll come on and call us names. So could you please, oh wise one, at least give us a link to document your own claims, which, oh wonderful one, we know to be true, it's just that we'd sort of, kind of, after all these many pages, see actual proof of this claim.

IDK who Jeff is or who u think I am but:
Based on data, in combination with U.S. Census data, Pew Research Center demographers estimate that there are about 1.8 million Muslim adults and 2.75 million Muslims of all ages (including children under 18) living in the United States in 2011. This represents an increase of roughly 300,000 adults and 100,000 Muslim children since 2007, when Pew Research demographers used similar methods to calculate that there were about 1.5 million Muslim adults (and 2.35 million Muslims of all ages) in the U.S.

The increase is in line with what one would expect from net immigration and natural population growth (births minus deaths) over the past four years. Demographers at the International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis (IIASA) in Austria independently estimated the total U.S. Muslim population at about 2.6 million in 2010. The same report also estimated that about 80,000 to 90,000 new Muslim immigrants have been entering the United States annually in recent years.

Now you have to apply the decline of Christianity in the United States. Its just statistics, Im not religious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forced conversion IS against Islam. The way Islam has spread to communities it conquered is not by forced conversion, but by making non-Muslimness economically unattractive, and Muslimness both economically and socially attractive. I remember reading a study a few years back that looked at prevalence of birth records and names (Muslim vs. non-Muslim) and it figured that it took approximately 200 years for the conquered area to assume Islam as majority religion.

I think it was determined that by 2030 it would be the dominant religion in the United States, I believe the source is the US Cencus.

Oh gawd. You're not going there again, are you? By all means, give us a real source, from the Census or another source. Our problem is that Jeff has told us that contradicting you is simply wrong, and we know he'll come on and call us names. So could you please, oh wise one, at least give us a link to document your own claims, which, oh wonderful one, we know to be true, it's just that we'd sort of, kind of, after all these many pages, see actual proof of this claim.[/quote]
IDK who Jeff is or who u think I am but:
Based on data, in combination with U.S. Census data, Pew Research Center demographers estimate that there are about 1.8 million Muslim adults and 2.75 million Muslims of all ages (including children under 18) living in the United States in 2011. This represents an increase of roughly 300,000 adults and 100,000 Muslim children since 2007, when Pew Research demographers used similar methods to calculate that there were about 1.5 million Muslim adults (and 2.35 million Muslims of all ages) in the U.S.

The increase is in line with what one would expect from net immigration and natural population growth (births minus deaths) over the past four years. Demographers at the International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis (IIASA) in Austria independently estimated the total U.S. Muslim population at about 2.6 million in 2010. The same report also estimated that about 80,000 to 90,000 new Muslim immigrants have been entering the United States annually in recent years.

Now you have to apply the decline of Christianity in the United States. Its just statistics, Im not religious.

This thread is about compelling conversion. Form another thread on the topic of conversion and I'm happy to discuss it there.