Subtle signs of class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the criteria listed by folks here seem so arbitrary.

It’s actually a whole code related to a mindset about preserving family inheritance and downplaying ostentation, so it’s a little more coherent than it looks on the surface.

There’s one poster who knows a fair amount but gets parts wrong (and won’t back down), and that adds a touch of arbitrariness. No, you don’t need to breed dogs and show them at Westminster, and in fact that’s actually a pretty middle class thing these days (watch Best in Show). Old money on the Upper East Side isn’t showing horses.

Daughters of billionaires seem to do this. I think there is a Gates daughter who does and a Dell daughter. Bloomberg's daughter as well.

As does/did Springsteen’s daughter.These are all new money, though, fwiw.

I know numerous UMC and even MC daughters in the DMV area who do this—DC’s classmates and friends’ kids.

The point is, show jumping/dressage is not a marker of old money, or “class” if you want, contrary to what’s been said here.

The

Anyone who can afford it would do show jumping because it is the most fun thing to do with oodles of money. Those particular girls are famous because their parents are famous - there are PLENTY of older money daughters doing it as well. Also remember there is "competing in show jumping" and then there is being a national competitor and then there is the Springsteen/Gates level shit. Those guys invented a whole circuit of completely ridiculous events with insane backdrops - under the Eiffel Tower, on the beach in Miami, by the water in Monaco - I think just because Frank McCourt's new wife is into horses. You gotta have stupid money to do that and no desire to hold onto it. There are also a lot of international kleptocrats who get into it especially in Florida. Anyway you need a LOT more money to do that then you do to just keep a few nice show hunters in Middleburg, which is also pretty f-ing classy imo. A good way to judge is if the person jumps over 1.20m or does actual fox hunting (because those people are mostly insane/delightful). Both are legit. "Cynthia takes weekly lessons and recently purchased a Children's Hunter we hope can also do the Big Eq" is EXTREMELY LOW CLASS it's like the horse equivalent of Instagramming your new Camry or something or living in Rockville but you call it Potomac. Or living in Potomac, for that matter.

Anyway, do you guys know why so many Small Pony Hunters are gray (white, to you non-equestrians)? It's because they systematically kill the other ones shortly after birth.

Also guys there is a genuinely weird lady in Middleburg who may or may not have paid for a series of bonkers, dubiously factual magazine features about herself with a field full of pony clones. Not kidding.

wow a beach that's fun I guess


That's a Bloomberg and some Rockefellers and the Eiffel Tower, which I guess they like rented?


tfw Charlotte Casiraghi is also on your showjumping "team"

Our family friends are horse trainers/handlers for some of these billionaire American families whose daughters are show jumpers. They don't even breed the horses; they just train, care for, and transport the horses to these events on behalf of the owners.

They own 5 homes due to the insane amounts of money they make in this line of business - Malibu, Palm Springs, a ranch in Colorado, a house in West Palm, etc. They follow their clientele around the world and make ungodly sums of money doing so. They don't appear to have any equity stakes in these horses, they just give these families their time, knowledge, and expertise. And get highly compensated for doing so.

There's so many other billionaire and 9-figure families in the US (and around the world) that we haven't even heard of. So many of their daughters are trying to become show jumpers and their boys are trying to play polo. It's ridiculous and they have the cash to burn.

What do you think someone like Eve Jobs spends on her show jumping career on a yearly basis? I follow her on Instagram and she seems to be constantly riding at events all over the world. She's also currently studying at Stanford, but she seems to barely spend any time at the school. There's a bunch of tech tycoon kids at Stanford right now doing the same - jetting off to St Barthes, Vail, or Europe every weekend.

These billionaires are the true UC now. Forget what you’ve read about the parsimonious WASP class of New England. Most of those fortunes have run out and those that still exist pale in comparison to the tech titans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, this thread is increasingly seeming destined to become a DCUM classic

We are debating whether UC WASPs go to Portugal and the class distinctions signaled by Pottery Barn vs. Stickley (as if this were a question).

What’s wrong with stickler?

It’s hand made, all wood stuff (no veneer or particle board)

Curious about this too.

I really hate to be this person. But it’s a reproduction of a (great) original.

Lol what isn’t?

The originals. Old money is about authentic stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The working class man, like the rich man, is sentimental and driven by comfort. He usually eats the same meals and has least adventurous palate of all the classes. The working class house is full of items of personal significance, such as family photos, and a quilt made by grandma. Decor also includes wallpaper borders, Americana themes, and signs with touching phrases like "bless this mess". Working class vacations usually involve staying with relatives or camping, and aspirational vacations are Disney or a cruise. Hawaii is working class Valhalla. Entertainment includes television, movies, sports bars, bowling, being a spectator at sporting events such as baseball or football, hosting potlucks, and hosting MLM parties. Education is regarded as career advancement; degree programs like nursing are considered superior to degrees like Economics, which are perceived as lacking job opportunities and practical application.

Paul Fussell?

He’s dead, but this does read like him.

So wait. Profiling PP was quoting Fussell all along?

Profile writer here. I wasn't quoting Fussell but this certainly tracks with his book on the topic. As someone who is obviously very interested in class, I have read his book. Twice.

I admire your honesty about your interests! Just, when you get called out on things like dog shows and Portugal (does Fussell mention Portugal?), don’t keep insisting on them, is all.

I didn't weigh in on dog shows. But I've got to put my foot down about Portugal as not being de rigueur among the rich.

Who said de rigueur? It’s just that you wrote like the UC wouldn’t be caught dead there, and that’s just not true.

Not at all. I said surely some rich travel there. But that as a class marker, if someone talks about their recent trip to Portugal, they are likely UMC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, this thread is increasingly seeming destined to become a DCUM classic

We are debating whether UC WASPs go to Portugal and the class distinctions signaled by Pottery Barn vs. Stickley (as if this were a question).

What’s wrong with stickler?

It’s hand made, all wood stuff (no veneer or particle board)

Curious about this too.

I really hate to be this person. But it’s a reproduction of a (great) original.

Lol what isn’t?

The originals. Old money is about authentic stuff.

So what? It’s still nice stuff. Someone in here asked where you can buy real wood, hand made furniture since stores like Pottery Barn sell overpriced veneer. I answered with one example.

Do you have original period furniture in your house? Come on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stickley makes really beautiful, hand made, in lay furniture. The in lays especially are a work of art and add a ton of visual interest to a room. Definitely not something you’d find at your average mass produced big box store.

I totally agree. Still, it’s not the same as having Federal/ Regency furniture from about 1810.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the criteria listed by folks here seem so arbitrary.

It’s actually a whole code related to a mindset about preserving family inheritance and downplaying ostentation, so it’s a little more coherent than it looks on the surface.

There’s one poster who knows a fair amount but gets parts wrong (and won’t back down), and that adds a touch of arbitrariness. No, you don’t need to breed dogs and show them at Westminster, and in fact that’s actually a pretty middle class thing these days (watch Best in Show). Old money on the Upper East Side isn’t showing horses.

Daughters of billionaires seem to do this. I think there is a Gates daughter who does and a Dell daughter. Bloomberg's daughter as well.

As does/did Springsteen’s daughter.These are all new money, though, fwiw.

I know numerous UMC and even MC daughters in the DMV area who do this—DC’s classmates and friends’ kids.

The point is, show jumping/dressage is not a marker of old money, or “class” if you want, contrary to what’s been said here.

The

Anyone who can afford it would do show jumping because it is the most fun thing to do with oodles of money. Those particular girls are famous because their parents are famous - there are PLENTY of older money daughters doing it as well. Also remember there is "competing in show jumping" and then there is being a national competitor and then there is the Springsteen/Gates level shit. Those guys invented a whole circuit of completely ridiculous events with insane backdrops - under the Eiffel Tower, on the beach in Miami, by the water in Monaco - I think just because Frank McCourt's new wife is into horses. You gotta have stupid money to do that and no desire to hold onto it. There are also a lot of international kleptocrats who get into it especially in Florida. Anyway you need a LOT more money to do that then you do to just keep a few nice show hunters in Middleburg, which is also pretty f-ing classy imo. A good way to judge is if the person jumps over 1.20m or does actual fox hunting (because those people are mostly insane/delightful). Both are legit. "Cynthia takes weekly lessons and recently purchased a Children's Hunter we hope can also do the Big Eq" is EXTREMELY LOW CLASS it's like the horse equivalent of Instagramming your new Camry or something or living in Rockville but you call it Potomac. Or living in Potomac, for that matter.

Anyway, do you guys know why so many Small Pony Hunters are gray (white, to you non-equestrians)? It's because they systematically kill the other ones shortly after birth.

Also guys there is a genuinely weird lady in Middleburg who may or may not have paid for a series of bonkers, dubiously factual magazine features about herself with a field full of pony clones. Not kidding.

wow a beach that's fun I guess


That's a Bloomberg and some Rockefellers and the Eiffel Tower, which I guess they like rented?


tfw Charlotte Casiraghi is also on your showjumping "team"

Our family friends are horse trainers/handlers for some of these billionaire American families whose daughters are show jumpers. They don't even breed the horses; they just train, care for, and transport the horses to these events on behalf of the owners.

They own 5 homes due to the insane amounts of money they make in this line of business - Malibu, Palm Springs, a ranch in Colorado, a house in West Palm, etc. They follow their clientele around the world and make ungodly sums of money doing so. They don't appear to have any equity stakes in these horses, they just give these families their time, knowledge, and expertise. And get highly compensated for doing so.

There's so many other billionaire and 9-figure families in the US (and around the world) that we haven't even heard of. So many of their daughters are trying to become show jumpers and their boys are trying to play polo. It's ridiculous and they have the cash to burn.

What do you think someone like Eve Jobs spends on her show jumping career on a yearly basis? I follow her on Instagram and she seems to be constantly riding at events all over the world. She's also currently studying at Stanford, but she seems to barely spend any time at the school. There's a bunch of tech tycoon kids at Stanford right now doing the same - jetting off to St Barthes, Vail, or Europe every weekend.

These billionaires are the true UC now. Forget what you’ve read about the parsimonious WASP class of New England. Most of those fortunes have run out and those that still exist pale in comparison to the tech titans.

IDK. They are billionaires, but are they UC? Could they be admitted to Spouting Rock Beach Club in Newport (old money?) or any of the other exclusive clubs at Harvard/Yale/Princeton? If European, are they part of the Eurotrash elites (forgive me for using this derogatory term!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the criteria listed by folks here seem so arbitrary.

It’s actually a whole code related to a mindset about preserving family inheritance and downplaying ostentation, so it’s a little more coherent than it looks on the surface.

There’s one poster who knows a fair amount but gets parts wrong (and won’t back down), and that adds a touch of arbitrariness. No, you don’t need to breed dogs and show them at Westminster, and in fact that’s actually a pretty middle class thing these days (watch Best in Show). Old money on the Upper East Side isn’t showing horses.

Daughters of billionaires seem to do this. I think there is a Gates daughter who does and a Dell daughter. Bloomberg's daughter as well.

As does/did Springsteen’s daughter.These are all new money, though, fwiw.

I know numerous UMC and even MC daughters in the DMV area who do this—DC’s classmates and friends’ kids.

The point is, show jumping/dressage is not a marker of old money, or “class” if you want, contrary to what’s been said here.

The

Anyone who can afford it would do show jumping because it is the most fun thing to do with oodles of money. Those particular girls are famous because their parents are famous - there are PLENTY of older money daughters doing it as well. Also remember there is "competing in show jumping" and then there is being a national competitor and then there is the Springsteen/Gates level shit. Those guys invented a whole circuit of completely ridiculous events with insane backdrops - under the Eiffel Tower, on the beach in Miami, by the water in Monaco - I think just because Frank McCourt's new wife is into horses. You gotta have stupid money to do that and no desire to hold onto it. There are also a lot of international kleptocrats who get into it especially in Florida. Anyway you need a LOT more money to do that then you do to just keep a few nice show hunters in Middleburg, which is also pretty f-ing classy imo. A good way to judge is if the person jumps over 1.20m or does actual fox hunting (because those people are mostly insane/delightful). Both are legit. "Cynthia takes weekly lessons and recently purchased a Children's Hunter we hope can also do the Big Eq" is EXTREMELY LOW CLASS it's like the horse equivalent of Instagramming your new Camry or something or living in Rockville but you call it Potomac. Or living in Potomac, for that matter.

Anyway, do you guys know why so many Small Pony Hunters are gray (white, to you non-equestrians)? It's because they systematically kill the other ones shortly after birth.

Also guys there is a genuinely weird lady in Middleburg who may or may not have paid for a series of bonkers, dubiously factual magazine features about herself with a field full of pony clones. Not kidding.

wow a beach that's fun I guess


That's a Bloomberg and some Rockefellers and the Eiffel Tower, which I guess they like rented?


tfw Charlotte Casiraghi is also on your showjumping "team"

Our family friends are horse trainers/handlers for some of these billionaire American families whose daughters are show jumpers. They don't even breed the horses; they just train, care for, and transport the horses to these events on behalf of the owners.

They own 5 homes due to the insane amounts of money they make in this line of business - Malibu, Palm Springs, a ranch in Colorado, a house in West Palm, etc. They follow their clientele around the world and make ungodly sums of money doing so. They don't appear to have any equity stakes in these horses, they just give these families their time, knowledge, and expertise. And get highly compensated for doing so.

There's so many other billionaire and 9-figure families in the US (and around the world) that we haven't even heard of. So many of their daughters are trying to become show jumpers and their boys are trying to play polo. It's ridiculous and they have the cash to burn.

What do you think someone like Eve Jobs spends on her show jumping career on a yearly basis? I follow her on Instagram and she seems to be constantly riding at events all over the world. She's also currently studying at Stanford, but she seems to barely spend any time at the school. There's a bunch of tech tycoon kids at Stanford right now doing the same - jetting off to St Barthes, Vail, or Europe every weekend.

These billionaires are the true UC now. Forget what you’ve read about the parsimonious WASP class of New England. Most of those fortunes have run out and those that still exist pale in comparison to the tech titans.

IDK. They are billionaires, but are they UC? Could they be admitted to Spouting Rock Beach Club in Newport (old money?) or any of the other exclusive clubs at Harvard/Yale/Princeton? If European, are they part of the Eurotrash elites (forgive me for using this derogatory term!)

Yes because that kind of money almost always trumps snobbery. Look at the feud between the Vanderbilts and the Astors during the Gilded Age. You can’t hold back that type of money, it is a tsunami.

The more relevant question is whether these tech people have any interest in infiltrating old money establishments. I’m guessing many are not.

[Anonymous]

Locally, though, I thought I read here on DCUM somewhere that the owner of the Redskins couldn't be admitted to one of the exclusive country clubs (maybe Congressional?)


Money does not always smooth one's way into these social clubs.

[Anonymous]

Profile writer here. On tech tycoons, I don't see them as being unlike the new rich of any other era.

People love to hate on the new rich, but I prefer them to old money, so I am not making a judgment. It's just a fact that tech leaders are of MC and UMC upbringing and will demonstrate those class values rather than ones associated with older money. You can't change class, you can only change taste and buying power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Profile writer here. On tech tycoons, I don't see them as being unlike the new rich of any other era.

People love to hate on the new rich, but I prefer them to old money, so I am not making a judgment. It's just a fact that tech leaders are of MC and UMC upbringing and will demonstrate those class values rather than ones associated with older money. You can't change class, you can only change taste and buying power.

Thus the ostentatious displays exhibited by that horse jumping circuit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Profile writer here. On tech tycoons, I don't see them as being unlike the new rich of any other era.

People love to hate on the new rich, but I prefer them to old money, so I am not making a judgment. It's just a fact that tech leaders are of MC and UMC upbringing and will demonstrate those class values rather than ones associated with older money. You can't change class, you can only change taste and buying power.

Thus the ostentatious displays exhibited by that horse jumping circuit.

It's still better than miserable old money. Only cocaine can cure their ennui.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, this thread is increasingly seeming destined to become a DCUM classic

We are debating whether UC WASPs go to Portugal and the class distinctions signaled by Pottery Barn vs. Stickley (as if this were a question).

What’s wrong with stickler?

It’s hand made, all wood stuff (no veneer or particle board)

Super weird that you assume that Stickley was the lower class of the two. I guess you know what that means about your own class status

People were laughing at the suggestion that Stickley is a store worth buying from. I was wondering why they are scoffing.

Apparently because they don’t make “original” one of a kind furniture.

Personally I live Stickley and have bought a lot of furniture from them. My dining set was over 12k on sale.

Oh dear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, this thread is increasingly seeming destined to become a DCUM classic

We are debating whether UC WASPs go to Portugal and the class distinctions signaled by Pottery Barn vs. Stickley (as if this were a question).

What’s wrong with stickler?

It’s hand made, all wood stuff (no veneer or particle board)

Super weird that you assume that Stickley was the lower class of the two. I guess you know what that means about your own class status

People were laughing at the suggestion that Stickley is a store worth buying from. I was wondering why they are scoffing.

Apparently because they don’t make “original” one of a kind furniture.

Personally I live Stickley and have bought a lot of furniture from them. My dining set was over 12k on sale.

Oh dear.

I get what you mean, but if you are going to scoff, you need to explain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Locally, though, I thought I read here on DCUM somewhere that the owner of the Redskins couldn't be admitted to one of the exclusive country clubs (maybe Congressional?)


Money does not always smooth one's way into these social clubs.

Obama was rejected from Woodmont.

This is why I'm not a huge fan of old money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Profile writer here. On tech tycoons, I don't see them as being unlike the new rich of any other era.

People love to hate on the new rich, but I prefer them to old money, so I am not making a judgment. It's just a fact that tech leaders are of MC and UMC upbringing and will demonstrate those class values rather than ones associated with older money. You can't change class, you can only change taste and buying power.

Thus the ostentatious displays exhibited by that horse jumping circuit.

It's still better than miserable old money. Only cocaine can cure their ennui.

Hi there is PLENTY of cocaine at horse shows.