Subtle signs of class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the criteria listed by folks here seem so arbitrary.

It’s actually a whole code related to a mindset about preserving family inheritance and downplaying ostentation, so it’s a little more coherent than it looks on the surface.

There’s one poster who knows a fair amount but gets parts wrong (and won’t back down), and that adds a touch of arbitrariness. No, you don’t need to breed dogs and show them at Westminster, and in fact that’s actually a pretty middle class thing these days (watch Best in Show). Old money on the Upper East Side isn’t showing horses.

Daughters of billionaires seem to do this. I think there is a Gates daughter who does and a Dell daughter. Bloomberg's daughter as well.

As does/did Springsteen’s daughter.These are all new money, though, fwiw.

I know numerous UMC and even MC daughters in the DMV area who do this—DC’s classmates and friends’ kids.

The point is, show jumping/dressage is not a marker of old money, or “class” if you want, contrary to what’s been said here.

The

Anyone who can afford it would do show jumping because it is the most fun thing to do with oodles of money. Those particular girls are famous because their parents are famous - there are PLENTY of older money daughters doing it as well. Also remember there is "competing in show jumping" and then there is being a national competitor and then there is the Springsteen/Gates level shit. Those guys invented a whole circuit of completely ridiculous events with insane backdrops - under the Eiffel Tower, on the beach in Miami, by the water in Monaco - I think just because Frank McCourt's new wife is into horses. You gotta have stupid money to do that and no desire to hold onto it. There are also a lot of international kleptocrats who get into it especially in Florida. Anyway you need a LOT more money to do that then you do to just keep a few nice show hunters in Middleburg, which is also pretty f-ing classy imo. A good way to judge is if the person jumps over 1.20m or does actual fox hunting (because those people are mostly insane/delightful). Both are legit. "Cynthia takes weekly lessons and recently purchased a Children's Hunter we hope can also do the Big Eq" is EXTREMELY LOW CLASS it's like the horse equivalent of Instagramming your new Camry or something or living in Rockville but you call it Potomac. Or living in Potomac, for that matter.

Anyway, do you guys know why so many Small Pony Hunters are gray (white, to you non-equestrians)? It's because they systematically kill the other ones shortly after birth.

Also guys there is a genuinely weird lady in Middleburg who may or may not have paid for a series of bonkers, dubiously factual magazine features about herself with a field full of pony clones. Not kidding.

wow a beach that's fun I guess


That's a Bloomberg and some Rockefellers and the Eiffel Tower, which I guess they like rented?


tfw Charlotte Casiraghi is also on your showjumping "team"

That second picture is taken at the Champs Mars, in Paris. Not on a beach.

Listen I can't help you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The working class man, like the rich man, is sentimental and driven by comfort. He usually eats the same meals and has least adventurous palate of all the classes. The working class house is full of items of personal significance, such as family photos, and a quilt made by grandma. Decor also includes wallpaper borders, Americana themes, and signs with touching phrases like "bless this mess". Working class vacations usually involve staying with relatives or camping, and aspirational vacations are Disney or a cruise. Hawaii is working class Valhalla. Entertainment includes television, movies, sports bars, bowling, being a spectator at sporting events such as baseball or football, hosting potlucks, and hosting MLM parties. Education is regarded as career advancement; degree programs like nursing are considered superior to degrees like Economics, which are perceived as lacking job opportunities and practical application.

Paul Fussell?

He’s dead, but this does read like him.

So wait. Profiling PP was quoting Fussell all along?

Profile writer here. I wasn't quoting Fussell but this certainly tracks with his book on the topic. As someone who is obviously very interested in class, I have read his book. Twice.

I admire your honesty about your interests! Just, when you get called out on things like dog shows and Portugal (does Fussell mention Portugal?), don’t keep insisting on them, is all.

I didn't weigh in on dog shows. But I've got to put my foot down about Portugal as not being de rigueur among the rich.

I would imagine there are some UC who go to Portugal. Just like some UC go to Walt Disney World/Disneyland (for their kids).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, this thread is increasingly seeming destined to become a DCUM classic

We are debating whether UC WASPs go to Portugal and the class distinctions signaled by Pottery Barn vs. Stickley (as if this were a question).

What’s wrong with stickler?

It’s hand made, all wood stuff (no veneer or particle board)

Curious about this too.

I really hate to be this person. But it’s a reproduction of a (great) original.

[Anonymous]

And I didn't answer about Fussell. He doesn't discuss Portugal. His book is at least 30 years old and although the concepts are still broadly valid, the specifics have changed (esp wrt the middle class, which has experienced massive upheaval). I make my assessment about Portugal because of the contexts in which I see it discussed, the fact that it's always being advertised on Travelzoo, the timing of its popularity in relation to the spike in the value of the euro, and the fact that none of the rich people in my life have mentioned, even in passing interest, going to Portugal. When I've discussed Croatia as a place I want to visit, the rich I socialize with cannot understand why I would go to that region and hit Croatia instead of Greece. When I say I have already been to Greece, that doesn't make sense as an answer to them because if I have been there, I know it's nice. The UMC desire to go to all countries isn't shared by the rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The working class man, like the rich man, is sentimental and driven by comfort. He usually eats the same meals and has least adventurous palate of all the classes. The working class house is full of items of personal significance, such as family photos, and a quilt made by grandma. Decor also includes wallpaper borders, Americana themes, and signs with touching phrases like "bless this mess". Working class vacations usually involve staying with relatives or camping, and aspirational vacations are Disney or a cruise. Hawaii is working class Valhalla. Entertainment includes television, movies, sports bars, bowling, being a spectator at sporting events such as baseball or football, hosting potlucks, and hosting MLM parties. Education is regarded as career advancement; degree programs like nursing are considered superior to degrees like Economics, which are perceived as lacking job opportunities and practical application.

Paul Fussell?

He’s dead, but this does read like him.

So wait. Profiling PP was quoting Fussell all along?

Profile writer here. I wasn't quoting Fussell but this certainly tracks with his book on the topic. As someone who is obviously very interested in class, I have read his book. Twice.

I admire your honesty about your interests! Just, when you get called out on things like dog shows and Portugal (does Fussell mention Portugal?), don’t keep insisting on them, is all.

I didn't weigh in on dog shows. But I've got to put my foot down about Portugal as not being de rigueur among the rich.

Who said de rigueur? It’s just that you wrote like the UC wouldn’t be caught dead there, and that’s just not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, this thread is increasingly seeming destined to become a DCUM classic

We are debating whether UC WASPs go to Portugal and the class distinctions signaled by Pottery Barn vs. Stickley (as if this were a question).

What’s wrong with stickler?

It’s hand made, all wood stuff (no veneer or particle board)

Curious about this too.

I really hate to be this person. But it’s a reproduction of a (great) original.

Lol what isn’t?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And I didn't answer about Fussell. He doesn't discuss Portugal. His book is at least 30 years old and although the concepts are still broadly valid, the specifics have changed (esp wrt the middle class, which has experienced massive upheaval). I make my assessment about Portugal because of the contexts in which I see it discussed, the fact that it's always being advertised on Travelzoo, the timing of its popularity in relation to the spike in the value of the euro, and the fact that none of the rich people in my life have mentioned, even in passing interest, going to Portugal. When I've discussed Croatia as a place I want to visit, the rich I socialize with cannot understand why I would go to that region and hit Croatia instead of Greece. When I say I have already been to Greece, that doesn't make sense as an answer to them because if I have been there, I know it's nice. The UMC desire to go to all countries isn't shared by the rich.

Maybe not the rich you know. They sound very provincial. The rich I know want to do crazy things like go to the moon and have their bodies frozen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And I didn't answer about Fussell. He doesn't discuss Portugal. His book is at least 30 years old and although the concepts are still broadly valid, the specifics have changed (esp wrt the middle class, which has experienced massive upheaval). I make my assessment about Portugal because of the contexts in which I see it discussed, the fact that it's always being advertised on Travelzoo, the timing of its popularity in relation to the spike in the value of the euro, and the fact that none of the rich people in my life have mentioned, even in passing interest, going to Portugal. When I've discussed Croatia as a place I want to visit, the rich I socialize with cannot understand why I would go to that region and hit Croatia instead of Greece. When I say I have already been to Greece, that doesn't make sense as an answer to them because if I have been there, I know it's nice. The UMC desire to go to all countries isn't shared by the rich.

Did you see any episodes of the British reality show "Born in Chelsea: Croatia?" The show is full of UMC millionaire kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And I didn't answer about Fussell. He doesn't discuss Portugal. His book is at least 30 years old and although the concepts are still broadly valid, the specifics have changed (esp wrt the middle class, which has experienced massive upheaval). I make my assessment about Portugal because of the contexts in which I see it discussed, the fact that it's always being advertised on Travelzoo, the timing of its popularity in relation to the spike in the value of the euro, and the fact that none of the rich people in my life have mentioned, even in passing interest, going to Portugal. When I've discussed Croatia as a place I want to visit, the rich I socialize with cannot understand why I would go to that region and hit Croatia instead of Greece. When I say I have already been to Greece, that doesn't make sense as an answer to them because if I have been there, I know it's nice. The UMC desire to go to all countries isn't shared by the rich.

You’re thinking of the cheesy timeshares in some places of Portugal. That’s definitely not the whole country. There’s a ton of stuff for the non—timeshare crowd to love.

[Anonymous]

Stickley makes really beautiful, hand made, in lay furniture. The in lays especially are a work of art and add a ton of visual interest to a room. Definitely not something you’d find at your average mass produced big box store.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And I didn't answer about Fussell. He doesn't discuss Portugal. His book is at least 30 years old and although the concepts are still broadly valid, the specifics have changed (esp wrt the middle class, which has experienced massive upheaval). I make my assessment about Portugal because of the contexts in which I see it discussed, the fact that it's always being advertised on Travelzoo, the timing of its popularity in relation to the spike in the value of the euro, and the fact that none of the rich people in my life have mentioned, even in passing interest, going to Portugal. When I've discussed Croatia as a place I want to visit, the rich I socialize with cannot understand why I would go to that region and hit Croatia instead of Greece. When I say I have already been to Greece, that doesn't make sense as an answer to them because if I have been there, I know it's nice. The UMC desire to go to all countries isn't shared by the rich.

Maybe not the rich you know. They sound very provincial. The rich I know want to do crazy things like go to the moon and have their bodies frozen.

Wealth does not equal class.

[Anonymous]

That PP knows nothing about rich people if she thinks Croatia isn’t a destination for he rich.

Hvar anyone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, this thread is increasingly seeming destined to become a DCUM classic

We are debating whether UC WASPs go to Portugal and the class distinctions signaled by Pottery Barn vs. Stickley (as if this were a question).

What’s wrong with stickler?

It’s hand made, all wood stuff (no veneer or particle board)

Super weird that you assume that Stickley was the lower class of the two. I guess you know what that means about your own class status

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of the criteria listed by folks here seem so arbitrary.

It’s actually a whole code related to a mindset about preserving family inheritance and downplaying ostentation, so it’s a little more coherent than it looks on the surface.

There’s one poster who knows a fair amount but gets parts wrong (and won’t back down), and that adds a touch of arbitrariness. No, you don’t need to breed dogs and show them at Westminster, and in fact that’s actually a pretty middle class thing these days (watch Best in Show). Old money on the Upper East Side isn’t showing horses.

Daughters of billionaires seem to do this. I think there is a Gates daughter who does and a Dell daughter. Bloomberg's daughter as well.

As does/did Springsteen’s daughter.These are all new money, though, fwiw.

I know numerous UMC and even MC daughters in the DMV area who do this—DC’s classmates and friends’ kids.

The point is, show jumping/dressage is not a marker of old money, or “class” if you want, contrary to what’s been said here.

The

Anyone who can afford it would do show jumping because it is the most fun thing to do with oodles of money. Those particular girls are famous because their parents are famous - there are PLENTY of older money daughters doing it as well. Also remember there is "competing in show jumping" and then there is being a national competitor and then there is the Springsteen/Gates level shit. Those guys invented a whole circuit of completely ridiculous events with insane backdrops - under the Eiffel Tower, on the beach in Miami, by the water in Monaco - I think just because Frank McCourt's new wife is into horses. You gotta have stupid money to do that and no desire to hold onto it. There are also a lot of international kleptocrats who get into it especially in Florida. Anyway you need a LOT more money to do that then you do to just keep a few nice show hunters in Middleburg, which is also pretty f-ing classy imo. A good way to judge is if the person jumps over 1.20m or does actual fox hunting (because those people are mostly insane/delightful). Both are legit. "Cynthia takes weekly lessons and recently purchased a Children's Hunter we hope can also do the Big Eq" is EXTREMELY LOW CLASS it's like the horse equivalent of Instagramming your new Camry or something or living in Rockville but you call it Potomac. Or living in Potomac, for that matter.

Anyway, do you guys know why so many Small Pony Hunters are gray (white, to you non-equestrians)? It's because they systematically kill the other ones shortly after birth.

Also guys there is a genuinely weird lady in Middleburg who may or may not have paid for a series of bonkers, dubiously factual magazine features about herself with a field full of pony clones. Not kidding.

wow a beach that's fun I guess


That's a Bloomberg and some Rockefellers and the Eiffel Tower, which I guess they like rented?


tfw Charlotte Casiraghi is also on your showjumping "team"

Our family friends are horse trainers/handlers for some of these billionaire American families whose daughters are show jumpers. They don't even breed the horses; they just train, care for, and transport the horses to these events on behalf of the owners.

They own 5 homes due to the insane amounts of money they make in this line of business - Malibu, Palm Springs, a ranch in Colorado, a house in West Palm, etc. They follow their clientele around the world and make ungodly sums of money doing so. They don't appear to have any equity stakes in these horses, they just give these families their time, knowledge, and expertise. And get highly compensated for doing so.

There's so many other billionaire and 9-figure families in the US (and around the world) that we haven't even heard of. So many of their daughters are trying to become show jumpers and their boys are trying to play polo. It's ridiculous and they have the cash to burn.

What do you think someone like Eve Jobs spends on her show jumping career on a yearly basis? I follow her on Instagram and she seems to be constantly riding at events all over the world. She's also currently studying at Stanford, but she seems to barely spend any time at the school. There's a bunch of tech tycoon kids at Stanford right now doing the same - jetting off to St Barthes, Vail, or Europe every weekend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, this thread is increasingly seeming destined to become a DCUM classic

We are debating whether UC WASPs go to Portugal and the class distinctions signaled by Pottery Barn vs. Stickley (as if this were a question).

What’s wrong with stickler?

It’s hand made, all wood stuff (no veneer or particle board)

Super weird that you assume that Stickley was the lower class of the two. I guess you know what that means about your own class status

People were laughing at the suggestion that Stickley is a store worth buying from. I was wondering why they are scoffing.

Apparently because they don’t make “original” one of a kind furniture.

Personally I live Stickley and have bought a lot of furniture from them. My dining set was over 12k on sale.