Do you consider redshirting cheating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that people have a strong reaction to being told that they are cheaters. In this case as it is within the rules I don't think its cheating. More like one more way parents use money to equalize a child's deficiencies (perceived, actual or not even considered) . The parents who do this at 4 continue it, so those of us who have several/older kids have seen this. Most probably don't really care one way or the other about redshirting, if you say your kid is behind I believe you. Many of us do get tired at watching other parents constantly trying to control and manipulate every single facet of their kids existence, redshirting is just a signal about what type of parent one is dealing with as a generality.

Not a redshirting parent--but, you have a problem if you think this is control and manipulation. Deciding that your four year old (or just turned five) is not ready for K is not control and manipulation, in my opinion. It is basic common sense and good parenting.

Unlike strategies aimed at rigging the game in your kids favor by making them smarter, this strategy does it by putting them against people who are younger than them. It simply moves your kid ahead of others by competing them against people from the grade below the one they are really in, developmentally speaking.[/quote]

And, that's the problem. You see education as a competition. It's not. Are you worried that your child won't be the top kid because another child is a month older? Here's a little piece of information--the kids are not all the same age in a class.

Didn't realize that all kids in the class are the same age--you do realize that some are months older than others?

Of course I do, I have several kids in school. You do realize that if you decide to hold that child, when they start next September they are a year older than they were? Okay then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If it isn't a competition your child would have done just as well with other kids their own age. They aren't competing with yours, right? So why did you redshirt?

Do you think social skills are a kind of competition? Real question. My DS (who I did not redshirt in the end) is markedly socially immature compared to his friends, and very young for the grade as well. I did not redshirt him, but if I had, it would have been to try to smooth the way for him socially -- ie, that he would have some good friends and not be bullied for baby-like behavior. Is this competition?

I don't think I want to live in your world ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that people have a strong reaction to being told that they are cheaters. In this case as it is within the rules I don't think its cheating. More like one more way parents use money to equalize a child's deficiencies (perceived, actual or not even considered) . The parents who do this at 4 continue it, so those of us who have several/older kids have seen this. Most probably don't really care one way or the other about redshirting, if you say your kid is behind I believe you. Many of us do get tired at watching other parents constantly trying to control and manipulate every single facet of their kids existence, redshirting is just a signal about what type of parent one is dealing with as a generality.

Not a redshirting parent--but, you have a problem if you think this is control and manipulation. Deciding that your four year old (or just turned five) is not ready for K is not control and manipulation, in my opinion. It is basic common sense and good parenting.

Unlike strategies aimed at rigging the game in your kids favor by making them smarter, this strategy does it by putting them against people who are younger than them. It simply moves your kid ahead of others by competing them against people from the grade below the one they are really in, developmentally speaking.

nobody is redshirting their child solely in an effort to "compete" them against younger children. ffs. that says a LOT more about how you view childrearing and elementary school, than it does about the reasons people actually redshirt.

Like their kid is shorter than the other kids? Or their kid can't sit still as long as the other kids? Or that they can't read as well as others yet and K is "now academic"? How are you getting those determinations unless you are comparing your child to the others in the class? If you say you don't do that, great, but its a huge disservice to your argument to claim that you don't care or notice what other kids do.....then base your decision for YOUR child around exactly that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it isn't a competition your child would have done just as well with other kids their own age. They aren't competing with yours, right? So why did you redshirt?

Do you think social skills are a kind of competition? Real question. My DS (who I did not redshirt in the end) is markedly socially immature compared to his friends, and very young for the grade as well. I did not redshirt him, but if I had, it would have been to try to smooth the way for him socially -- ie, that he would have some good friends and not be bullied for baby-like behavior. Is this competition?

I don't think I want to live in your world ...

Well, thats your choice. I'm not going anywhere. Please don't off yourself over this though. Its literally just an opinion from a stranger.

It's just illogical to say that to determine readiness we look at other children, and when we (lacking education or experience, generally, in child development) make determinations for our kids based on those other children, then decide that our child would "do better" against younger children, there is absolutely no degree of competition. If you think that redshirting is a guarantee of social status (or freedom from bullying) well....thats the control or manipulation I talked about,.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that people have a strong reaction to being told that they are cheaters. In this case as it is within the rules I don't think its cheating. More like one more way parents use money to equalize a child's deficiencies (perceived, actual or not even considered) . The parents who do this at 4 continue it, so those of us who have several/older kids have seen this. Most probably don't really care one way or the other about redshirting, if you say your kid is behind I believe you. Many of us do get tired at watching other parents constantly trying to control and manipulate every single facet of their kids existence, redshirting is just a signal about what type of parent one is dealing with as a generality.

Not a redshirting parent--but, you have a problem if you think this is control and manipulation. Deciding that your four year old (or just turned five) is not ready for K is not control and manipulation, in my opinion. It is basic common sense and good parenting.

Unlike strategies aimed at rigging the game in your kids favor by making them smarter, this strategy does it by putting them against people who are younger than them. It simply moves your kid ahead of others by competing them against people from the grade below the one they are really in, developmentally speaking.

nobody is redshirting their child solely in an effort to "compete" them against younger children. ffs. that says a LOT more about how you view childrearing and elementary school, than it does about the reasons people actually redshirt.

Like their kid is shorter than the other kids? Or their kid can't sit still as long as the other kids? Or that they can't read as well as others yet and K is "now academic"? How are you getting those determinations unless you are comparing your child to the others in the class? If you say you don't do that, great, but its a huge disservice to your argument to claim that you don't care or notice what other kids do.....then base your decision for YOUR child around exactly that.

You never had a kid you needed to consider redshirting, obviously. Generally, redshirting is considered for kids who have clear differences and will just do better with a younger cohort. It has nothing to do with competition, but rather the environment. Your viewpoint seems to be that kindergarten (!) is a zero-sum game. Mine is more like the process you go through when choosing between jobs: you pick the kind of environment and colleagues that suit you. Trust me, had I decided to redshirt (which I didn't) my boy would NOT have been some kind of unfair competition for your child.

[Anonymous]

Again with words. Words mean things. If your child "needed" redshirting.......based on what? Parental determination means nothing without credentials.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it isn't a competition your child would have done just as well with other kids their own age. They aren't competing with yours, right? So why did you redshirt?

Do you think social skills are a kind of competition? Real question. My DS (who I did not redshirt in the end) is markedly socially immature compared to his friends, and very young for the grade as well. I did not redshirt him, but if I had, it would have been to try to smooth the way for him socially -- ie, that he would have some good friends and not be bullied for baby-like behavior. Is this competition?

I don't think I want to live in your world ...

Well, thats your choice. I'm not going anywhere. Please don't off yourself over this though. Its literally just an opinion from a stranger.

It's just illogical to say that to determine readiness we look at other children, and when we (lacking education or experience, generally, in child development) make determinations for our kids based on those other children, then decide that our child would "do better" against younger children, there is absolutely no degree of competition. If you think that redshirting is a guarantee of social status (or freedom from bullying) well....thats the control or manipulation I talked about,.

redshirting decisions are almost ALWAYS made WITH THE ADVICE of teachers, administrators, and doctors/therapists. Plus, there's really persuasive research that being young for the grade contributes to the risk of an ADHD diagnosis.

Why do you care so much about other people's parenting decisions in this regard?

Your fixation on this idea of "control" and "manipulation" say a LOT more about your concerns than me.

[Anonymous]

Unlike strategies aimed at rigging the game in your kids favor by making them smarter

By the time kids are going to school, it is too late to pick an intelligent partner, eat well during pregnancy, and breastfeed for as long as possible to make your child smarter than they might otherwise have been.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that people have a strong reaction to being told that they are cheaters. In this case as it is within the rules I don't think its cheating. More like one more way parents use money to equalize a child's deficiencies (perceived, actual or not even considered) . The parents who do this at 4 continue it, so those of us who have several/older kids have seen this. Most probably don't really care one way or the other about redshirting, if you say your kid is behind I believe you. Many of us do get tired at watching other parents constantly trying to control and manipulate every single facet of their kids existence, redshirting is just a signal about what type of parent one is dealing with as a generality.

Not a redshirting parent--but, you have a problem if you think this is control and manipulation. Deciding that your four year old (or just turned five) is not ready for K is not control and manipulation, in my opinion. It is basic common sense and good parenting.

Unlike strategies aimed at rigging the game in your kids favor by making them smarter, this strategy does it by putting them against people who are younger than them. It simply moves your kid ahead of others by competing them against people from the grade below the one they are really in, developmentally speaking.

nobody is redshirting their child solely in an effort to "compete" them against younger children. ffs. that says a LOT more about how you view childrearing and elementary school, than it does about the reasons people actually redshirt.

Like their kid is shorter than the other kids? Or their kid can't sit still as long as the other kids? Or that they can't read as well as others yet and K is "now academic"? How are you getting those determinations unless you are comparing your child to the others in the class? If you say you don't do that, great, but its a huge disservice to your argument to claim that you don't care or notice what other kids do.....then base your decision for YOUR child around exactly that.

You never had a kid you needed to consider redshirting, obviously. Generally, redshirting is considered for kids who have clear differences and will just do better with a younger cohort. It has nothing to do with competition, but rather the environment. Your viewpoint seems to be that kindergarten (!) is a zero-sum game. Mine is more like the process you go through when choosing between jobs: you pick the kind of environment and colleagues that suit you. Trust me, had I decided to redshirt (which I didn't) my boy would NOT have been some kind of unfair competition for your child.

Clear differences? You mean like getting treatment/therapies? That's different and I would agree. I thought you meant the parents on here, talking about height and vague "immaturity" issues, not clear medical/social differences. My fault. We agree.

As to the bolded, if jobs were free and guaranteed by the Federal Government, yes, it would be like that. Most people choosing public school don't have that luxury, so can't "school/age/grade" shop like you can, which makes a difference for their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it isn't a competition your child would have done just as well with other kids their own age. They aren't competing with yours, right? So why did you redshirt?

Do you think social skills are a kind of competition? Real question. My DS (who I did not redshirt in the end) is markedly socially immature compared to his friends, and very young for the grade as well. I did not redshirt him, but if I had, it would have been to try to smooth the way for him socially -- ie, that he would have some good friends and not be bullied for baby-like behavior. Is this competition?

I don't think I want to live in your world ...

Well, thats your choice. I'm not going anywhere. Please don't off yourself over this though. Its literally just an opinion from a stranger.

It's just illogical to say that to determine readiness we look at other children, and when we (lacking education or experience, generally, in child development) make determinations for our kids based on those other children, then decide that our child would "do better" against younger children, there is absolutely no degree of competition. If you think that redshirting is a guarantee of social status (or freedom from bullying) well....thats the control or manipulation I talked about,.

redshirting decisions are almost ALWAYS made WITH THE ADVICE of teachers, administrators, and doctors/therapists. Plus, there's really persuasive research that being young for the grade contributes to the risk of an ADHD diagnosis.

Why do you care so much about other people's parenting decisions in this regard?

Your fixation on this idea of "control" and "manipulation" say a LOT more about your concerns than me.

I care about a lot of parenting decisions. Vaccinations. Proper health care. Fair and equal and accessible public schooling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it isn't a competition your child would have done just as well with other kids their own age. They aren't competing with yours, right? So why did you redshirt?

Do you think social skills are a kind of competition? Real question. My DS (who I did not redshirt in the end) is markedly socially immature compared to his friends, and very young for the grade as well. I did not redshirt him, but if I had, it would have been to try to smooth the way for him socially -- ie, that he would have some good friends and not be bullied for baby-like behavior. Is this competition?

I don't think I want to live in your world ...

Well, thats your choice. I'm not going anywhere. Please don't off yourself over this though. Its literally just an opinion from a stranger.

It's just illogical to say that to determine readiness we look at other children, and when we (lacking education or experience, generally, in child development) make determinations for our kids based on those other children, then decide that our child would "do better" against younger children, there is absolutely no degree of competition. If you think that redshirting is a guarantee of social status (or freedom from bullying) well....thats the control or manipulation I talked about,.

redshirting decisions are almost ALWAYS made WITH THE ADVICE of teachers, administrators, and doctors/therapists. Plus, there's really persuasive research that being young for the grade contributes to the risk of an ADHD diagnosis.

Why do you care so much about other people's parenting decisions in this regard?

Your fixation on this idea of "control" and "manipulation" say a LOT more about your concerns than me.

Great! then it should be up to dr's/therapists, not parents. If a child has "clear differences" I would hope that they are already receiving supplemental care!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Unlike strategies aimed at rigging the game in your kids favor by making them smarter

By the time kids are going to school, it is too late to pick an intelligent partner, eat well during pregnancy, and breastfeed for as long as possible to make your child smarter than they might otherwise have been.

Sure. Do you think that its mostly people who don't have intelligent partners and don't eat well in pregnancy or don't breastfeed who can afford to pay another year of chidcare? I don't, but admire your hopefulness.

The stats are pretty clear on all of this, you don't have to trust my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that people have a strong reaction to being told that they are cheaters. In this case as it is within the rules I don't think its cheating. More like one more way parents use money to equalize a child's deficiencies (perceived, actual or not even considered) . The parents who do this at 4 continue it, so those of us who have several/older kids have seen this. Most probably don't really care one way or the other about redshirting, if you say your kid is behind I believe you. Many of us do get tired at watching other parents constantly trying to control and manipulate every single facet of their kids existence, redshirting is just a signal about what type of parent one is dealing with as a generality.

Not a redshirting parent--but, you have a problem if you think this is control and manipulation. Deciding that your four year old (or just turned five) is not ready for K is not control and manipulation, in my opinion. It is basic common sense and good parenting.

Unlike strategies aimed at rigging the game in your kids favor by making them smarter, this strategy does it by putting them against people who are younger than them. It simply moves your kid ahead of others by competing them against people from the grade below the one they are really in, developmentally speaking.

nobody is redshirting their child solely in an effort to "compete" them against younger children. ffs. that says a LOT more about how you view childrearing and elementary school, than it does about the reasons people actually redshirt.

Like their kid is shorter than the other kids? Or their kid can't sit still as long as the other kids? Or that they can't read as well as others yet and K is "now academic"? How are you getting those determinations unless you are comparing your child to the others in the class? If you say you don't do that, great, but its a huge disservice to your argument to claim that you don't care or notice what other kids do.....then base your decision for YOUR child around exactly that.

You never had a kid you needed to consider redshirting, obviously. Generally, redshirting is considered for kids who have clear differences and will just do better with a younger cohort. It has nothing to do with competition, but rather the environment. Your viewpoint seems to be that kindergarten (!) is a zero-sum game. Mine is more like the process you go through when choosing between jobs: you pick the kind of environment and colleagues that suit you. Trust me, had I decided to redshirt (which I didn't) my boy would NOT have been some kind of unfair competition for your child.

Clear differences? You mean like getting treatment/therapies? That's different and I would agree. I thought you meant the parents on here, talking about height and vague "immaturity" issues, not clear medical/social differences. My fault. We agree.

As to the bolded, if jobs were free and guaranteed by the Federal Government, yes, it would be like that. Most people choosing public school don't have that luxury, so can't "school/age/grade" shop like you can, which makes a difference for their kids.

No, I don't mean only diagnosed special needs -- because in many cases (not all), going to school on time is the right answer for SN kids, because there's no other way to access therapies. There can be clear differences without a diagnosis. And I think you should butt out and stop seeing this all as a zero-sum game, because it's not. Not sure why you are so panicked that your kid is going to be out-competed in Kindergarten. It's pretty ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If it isn't a competition your child would have done just as well with other kids their own age. They aren't competing with yours, right? So why did you redshirt?

Do you think social skills are a kind of competition? Real question. My DS (who I did not redshirt in the end) is markedly socially immature compared to his friends, and very young for the grade as well. I did not redshirt him, but if I had, it would have been to try to smooth the way for him socially -- ie, that he would have some good friends and not be bullied for baby-like behavior. Is this competition?

I don't think I want to live in your world ...

Well, thats your choice. I'm not going anywhere. Please don't off yourself over this though. Its literally just an opinion from a stranger.

It's just illogical to say that to determine readiness we look at other children, and when we (lacking education or experience, generally, in child development) make determinations for our kids based on those other children, then decide that our child would "do better" against younger children, there is absolutely no degree of competition. If you think that redshirting is a guarantee of social status (or freedom from bullying) well....thats the control or manipulation I talked about,.

redshirting decisions are almost ALWAYS made WITH THE ADVICE of teachers, administrators, and doctors/therapists. Plus, there's really persuasive research that being young for the grade contributes to the risk of an ADHD diagnosis.

Why do you care so much about other people's parenting decisions in this regard?

Your fixation on this idea of "control" and "manipulation" say a LOT more about your concerns than me.

I care about a lot of parenting decisions. Vaccinations. Proper health care. Fair and equal and accessible public schooling.

Are you the crazy lady who thinks that people who redshirt are racist? Please, find something else to spend your energy on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Again with words. Words mean things. If your child "needed" redshirting.......based on what? Parental determination means nothing without credentials.

Not PP, but I KNOW my child better than a specialist and better than you. She will be redshirted because I want to save her from being left alone with none to play with. My child does not have special needs that need to be diagnosed by a specialist, but she is very sensitive and absolutely needs to fit in and have friends. Older girls usually don’t want to play with her and she is left out. Same age or younger girls always play with her and she is SO MUCH HAPPIER. That’s all I need for me to redshirt (since I am allowed to do so)