Do you consider redshirting cheating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The law allows it. So it is not cheating. If you think the law is unfair work to change it.

Cheating isn't against the law. If so, every kid who committed plagiarism or adult who cheated on their spouse would be committing misdemeanors.

It isn't a legal question. It's a question of honestly playing by the rules. A key component of both cheating on a spouse and plagiarism is deception.

If a couple agrees to an open marriage, goes to a swingers party, or is openly polygamous, it's not considered cheating. They're open with each other and playing by the rules they've agreed to. While people outside the relationship would probably question the wisdom and morality of such an arrangement, of all the possible objections, I don't think anybody would claim it was cheating. (Adultery, incidentally, can be illegal depending on where you live. While it isn't likely to be prosecuted, it can certainly have legal ramificatioms in case of divorce.)

Similarly, plagiarism by definition involves deception by using somebody else's work as your own. Nobody would object to something as plagiarism if they cite the source. There might be questions of fair use, copyright, etc., if they use too much. However, redshirting is analagous to somebody who contacted the original author and got permission to reprint their work. They're open about what their doing, and they're doing it with official consent. While authors who haven't requested permission to republish the original work may think the author who did has an unfair advantage, there's nothing to keep them from also requesting permission to cite the original author in question.

While you are free to make whatever moral judgements you wish, redshirters are "playing by the rules". As pp indicated, you are free to lobby to have those rules changed - either the state laws or the local regulations. (Personally, I hope you are unsuccessful. I think redshirting benefits not only the students in question, but the rest of the class that is spared the disruptions caused by someone who isn't ready to be there.) There are plenty of other laws/policies that I think should be changed. However, while I may disagree with what someone is doing under current statutes, I recognize they have the right to do whatever wrong (in my opinion) thing they're doing.

Great answer.
I might add that there are penalties for "cheating"--whether they are legal penalties or no.

I still don't understand why PP thinks redshirting is cheating. The law states when a child is allowed to begin public school and when the child "must" be in school.

And, most people who redshirt are not trying to give their child an "advantage." They just want what is best for their child.

Well, yes. But if what they personally determine is best does not advantage the child, why would they do it? So, they are doing it for an advantage. We can all just be honest about that, right??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The law allows it. So it is not cheating. If you think the law is unfair work to change it.

Cheating isn't against the law. If so, every kid who committed plagiarism or adult who cheated on their spouse would be committing misdemeanors.

It isn't a legal question. It's a question of honestly playing by the rules. A key component of both cheating on a spouse and plagiarism is deception.

If a couple agrees to an open marriage, goes to a swingers party, or is openly polygamous, it's not considered cheating. They're open with each other and playing by the rules they've agreed to. While people outside the relationship would probably question the wisdom and morality of such an arrangement, of all the possible objections, I don't think anybody would claim it was cheating. (Adultery, incidentally, can be illegal depending on where you live. While it isn't likely to be prosecuted, it can certainly have legal ramificatioms in case of divorce.)

Similarly, plagiarism by definition involves deception by using somebody else's work as your own. Nobody would object to something as plagiarism if they cite the source. There might be questions of fair use, copyright, etc., if they use too much. However, redshirting is analagous to somebody who contacted the original author and got permission to reprint their work. They're open about what their doing, and they're doing it with official consent. While authors who haven't requested permission to republish the original work may think the author who did has an unfair advantage, there's nothing to keep them from also requesting permission to cite the original author in question.

While you are free to make whatever moral judgements you wish, redshirters are "playing by the rules". As pp indicated, you are free to lobby to have those rules changed - either the state laws or the local regulations. (Personally, I hope you are unsuccessful. I think redshirting benefits not only the students in question, but the rest of the class that is spared the disruptions caused by someone who isn't ready to be there.) There are plenty of other laws/policies that I think should be changed. However, while I may disagree with what someone is doing under current statutes, I recognize they have the right to do whatever wrong (in my opinion) thing they're doing.

Great answer.
I might add that there are penalties for "cheating"--whether they are legal penalties or no.

I still don't understand why PP thinks redshirting is cheating. The law states when a child is allowed to begin public school and when the child "must" be in school.

And, most people who redshirt are not trying to give their child an "advantage." They just want what is best for their child.

Well, yes. But if what they personally determine is best does not advantage the child, why would they do it? So, they are doing it for an advantage. We can all just be honest about that, right??

Well obviously people redshirt to benefit their child in some way. But typically the benefit is not to move them from average to top of the class, but rather to prevent failure and harm.

[Anonymous]

I plan to redshirt because my DD will do better socially with same age or younger kids. I do NOT care about academics. I don’t understand parents of 4 year olds that care about that. My DD was born 1 week shy from the cutoff so she is with her peer either way. Also, it really is NOT about competition. I do not really care about any other kid, but if I can protect my DD from hurt ache (from not being accepted from classmates because too young -it has appended) I wil!

[Anonymous]

Well obviously people redshirt to benefit their child in some way. But typically the benefit is not to move them from average to top of the class, but rather to prevent failure and harm.

Bingo!

[Anonymous]

I taught first grade and K. I'm going to share something that may shock those who are so against redshirting. The oldest child in the class is not necessarily the top student! And, neither is youngest necessarily the poorest student. There are exceptions to every rule. And, FWIW, I would not send my four year old to K. But, I've taught some who did fine. I also don't condemn those who do.

[Anonymous]

Well, I redshirted my child, so I don't think it's cheating. In general, I don't find anyone to openly have issues with me redshirting (late August), so I don't feel uncomfortable. And if they are secretly judging, oh well.

I don't think anyone would guess he was redshirted, right now he blends in well with personality, academics and height. He is less disruptive and needs less help with academics then he would have a year ago, so if anything, redshirting has benefited the class, as the teacher has more time to spend on the other kids.

[Anonymous]

It's cheating.

[Anonymous]

I think that people have a strong reaction to being told that they are cheaters. In this case as it is within the rules I don't think its cheating. More like one more way parents use money to equalize a child's deficiencies (perceived, actual or not even considered) . The parents who do this at 4 continue it, so those of us who have several/older kids have seen this. Most probably don't really care one way or the other about redshirting, if you say your kid is behind I believe you. Many of us do get tired at watching other parents constantly trying to control and manipulate every single facet of their kids existence, redshirting is just a signal about what type of parent one is dealing with as a generality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that people have a strong reaction to being told that they are cheaters. In this case as it is within the rules I don't think its cheating. More like one more way parents use money to equalize a child's deficiencies (perceived, actual or not even considered) . The parents who do this at 4 continue it, so those of us who have several/older kids have seen this. Most probably don't really care one way or the other about redshirting, if you say your kid is behind I believe you. Many of us do get tired at watching other parents constantly trying to control and manipulate every single facet of their kids existence, redshirting is just a signal about what type of parent one is dealing with as a generality.

Not a redshirting parent--but, you have a problem if you think this is control and manipulation. Deciding that your four year old (or just turned five) is not ready for K is not control and manipulation, in my opinion. It is basic common sense and good parenting.

[Anonymous]

Ok. "deciding" when you aren't a professional in childhood development (but a parent with very limited experience) it isn't really "deciding", its more like "feeling", but whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that people have a strong reaction to being told that they are cheaters. In this case as it is within the rules I don't think its cheating. More like one more way parents use money to equalize a child's deficiencies (perceived, actual or not even considered) . The parents who do this at 4 continue it, so those of us who have several/older kids have seen this. Most probably don't really care one way or the other about redshirting, if you say your kid is behind I believe you. Many of us do get tired at watching other parents constantly trying to control and manipulate every single facet of their kids existence, redshirting is just a signal about what type of parent one is dealing with as a generality.

Not a redshirting parent--but, you have a problem if you think this is control and manipulation. Deciding that your four year old (or just turned five) is not ready for K is not control and manipulation, in my opinion. It is basic common sense and good parenting.

Really? you're here defending yourself against a stranger who literally doesn't care about your individual choice in any way, yet you aren't slightly controlling and manipulative? Why are you trying to control how I feel about a decision you must be totally confident in?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that people have a strong reaction to being told that they are cheaters. In this case as it is within the rules I don't think its cheating. More like one more way parents use money to equalize a child's deficiencies (perceived, actual or not even considered) . The parents who do this at 4 continue it, so those of us who have several/older kids have seen this. Most probably don't really care one way or the other about redshirting, if you say your kid is behind I believe you. Many of us do get tired at watching other parents constantly trying to control and manipulate every single facet of their kids existence, redshirting is just a signal about what type of parent one is dealing with as a generality.

Not a redshirting parent--but, you have a problem if you think this is control and manipulation. Deciding that your four year old (or just turned five) is not ready for K is not control and manipulation, in my opinion. It is basic common sense and good parenting.

Unlike strategies aimed at rigging the game in your kids favor by making them smarter, this strategy does it by putting them against people who are younger than them. It simply moves your kid ahead of others by competing them against people from the grade below the one they are really in, developmentally speaking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that people have a strong reaction to being told that they are cheaters. In this case as it is within the rules I don't think its cheating. More like one more way parents use money to equalize a child's deficiencies (perceived, actual or not even considered) . The parents who do this at 4 continue it, so those of us who have several/older kids have seen this. Most probably don't really care one way or the other about redshirting, if you say your kid is behind I believe you. Many of us do get tired at watching other parents constantly trying to control and manipulate every single facet of their kids existence, redshirting is just a signal about what type of parent one is dealing with as a generality.

Not a redshirting parent--but, you have a problem if you think this is control and manipulation. Deciding that your four year old (or just turned five) is not ready for K is not control and manipulation, in my opinion. It is basic common sense and good parenting.

Unlike strategies aimed at rigging the game in your kids favor by making them smarter, this strategy does it by putting them against people who are younger than them. It simply moves your kid ahead of others by competing them against people from the grade below the one they are really in, developmentally speaking.[/quote]

And, that's the problem. You see education as a competition. It's not. Are you worried that your child won't be the top kid because another child is a month older? Here's a little piece of information--the kids are not all the same age in a class.

Didn't realize that all kids in the class are the same age--you do realize that some are months older than others?

[Anonymous]

If it isn't a competition your child would have done just as well with other kids their own age. They aren't competing with yours, right? So why did you redshirt?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that people have a strong reaction to being told that they are cheaters. In this case as it is within the rules I don't think its cheating. More like one more way parents use money to equalize a child's deficiencies (perceived, actual or not even considered) . The parents who do this at 4 continue it, so those of us who have several/older kids have seen this. Most probably don't really care one way or the other about redshirting, if you say your kid is behind I believe you. Many of us do get tired at watching other parents constantly trying to control and manipulate every single facet of their kids existence, redshirting is just a signal about what type of parent one is dealing with as a generality.

Not a redshirting parent--but, you have a problem if you think this is control and manipulation. Deciding that your four year old (or just turned five) is not ready for K is not control and manipulation, in my opinion. It is basic common sense and good parenting.

Unlike strategies aimed at rigging the game in your kids favor by making them smarter, this strategy does it by putting them against people who are younger than them. It simply moves your kid ahead of others by competing them against people from the grade below the one they are really in, developmentally speaking.

nobody is redshirting their child solely in an effort to "compete" them against younger children. ffs. that says a LOT more about how you view childrearing and elementary school, than it does about the reasons people actually redshirt.