Tell us about Kenyon...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kenyon is located where?

Oberlin is located where?

Sending a student to any college in OHIO where they are leaning towards removing all vaccine requirements. Ie measels, polio, MMR etc

Amazing parents you all are. Just fantastic. Not to mention curriculums are about to change worse than in Florida. Amazing pay tons of money to get a crap education in a state that will jail your daughters. Amazing.

It's Ohio, not Yemen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Always wise to check first year retention rate for any school being given serious consideration.

First year retention rates: (Data for period 0f 2017 through Fall 2020)

Kenyon 90%
Grinnell 90%
Oberlin 89%
Denison 88%

According to US News, there are 41 LACs with retention rates above 90%.

90% is very good, but not excellent.

This data is iffy, but it makes sense that lower ranked schools see more transfers than higher ranked schools. A few kids for whom it was more of a Likely than a Reach maybe feel they can climb the ladder. Nowhere for you to really climb if you are already at Williams or Amherst.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have any experiences with Kenyon merit aid (how much for what stats)? From what I've heard, Oberlin is often more generous for high achieving students but I have pretty limited experience knowing kids attending Kenyon (or elsewhere instead) where Kenyon merit aid was a factor that led them to enroll or decide otherwise.

My understanding is about 25 pct of class gets merit aid of 10k to 25k (or maybe higher). DC got in ED with a 33 but not straight As and received goose egg. ED is supposed to be just as eligible for merit but some speculate it’s not since they already have you.

I believe Oberlin automatically gives 10k to everyone (so it’s not really merit aid but tuition is just lower). Oberlin has a reasonably large endowment as does Grinnell which they seem to use to incentivize families to come to the Midwest. Denison has a large endowment and throws merit aid around too. So Kenyon has to compete with all that.

From what I’ve seen on chat boards high stat RD students (maybe scores above median and strong transcript), if admitted (demonstrated interest is a factor there), will normally get decent merit aid at Kenyon.

Very happy DC is Kenyon bound. Acceptance rate is not as low as some other LACs but the caliber of students is higher than many of the schools USNWR places above it (just compare the CDS to a Bates, Richmond or Colorado). Culturally and academically, it’s as appealing as any other LAC in my opinion, and the alumni seem fanatical. The only issue is location if not from Midwest. Very pleased DC will be attending (though merit aid would have been nice!)

NP also interested - Thank you. Did you fill out FAFSA? I’m wondering if they consider likelihood money would impact decision. Not applicable, I understand to ED, but a family in RD who doesn’t fill it out probably less persuaded by money than a $175,000/year donut hole family?

You might have you're logic wrong, wealthy families love a coupon and bragging rights if it's a scholarship. Kenyon is not need blind, they can use their carrots any way they want.

???

I suspect the vast majority of families could be swayed on the margin by $40-$140k in savings (perhaps not mega millionaires or billionaires). And there is perhaps an emotional component to it, you may be partial to the school that shows you more love. I think for almost anyone, if you are somewhat undecided between two schools, merit aid is an easy tie breaker as it is hard to justify why one school is worth so much more than another similarly prestigious school.

Exactly, it's an emotional coupon. And if the wealthy family is more valuable, than the middle class family, you give them the coupon.

But I think they are most interested in getting the best students, so the coupons go to the high stat kids. This is why Kenyon's acceptance rate is a bit elevated. They are chasing the high stat kids who either didn't get into top 10 LACs and/or can be swayed by merit aid. This may explain why Kenyon has higher test score profiles than other schools with lower acceptance rates (who are perhaps letting even more kids in ED or practicing yield control more aggressively). Frankly, I'd rather my kid attends the school seeking the best students rather than the one gaming the system to have a low acceptance rate.

Parents like to pretend the school is purchasing the student (their high stats kid is valuable) when in reality they are purchasing an education from the school. The school wants the best buyer, someone who can pay for four years and smooth any bumps along the way. They can get good stats at the same time. Paying for test prep is an example of smoothing bumps. Giving a wealthy family a coupon makes sense, word gets out, and more families from their circle apply next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kenyon is located where?

Oberlin is located where?

Sending a student to any college in OHIO where they are leaning towards removing all vaccine requirements. Ie measels, polio, MMR etc

Amazing parents you all are. Just fantastic. Not to mention curriculums are about to change worse than in Florida. Amazing pay tons of money to get a crap education in a state that will jail your daughters. Amazing.

I'm as rad as they come. Get over yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always wise to check first year retention rate for any school being given serious consideration.

First year retention rates: (Data for period 0f 2017 through Fall 2020)

Kenyon 90%
Grinnell 90%
Oberlin 89%
Denison 88%

According to US News, there are 41 LACs with retention rates above 90%.

90% is very good, but not excellent.

This data is iffy, but it makes sense that lower ranked schools see more transfers than higher ranked schools. A few kids for whom it was more of a Likely than a Reach maybe feel they can climb the ladder. Nowhere for you to really climb if you are already at Williams or Amherst.

My guess is that the first year retention rates for the 4 listed schools - I've visited all them - represents frosh realizing that the remote location is not a good fit for them. Some also may want to see if they can trade up. But that happens at large schools too. I know kids who traded in T20s for T10s after their first year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kenyon is located where?

Oberlin is located where?

Sending a student to any college in OHIO where they are leaning towards removing all vaccine requirements. Ie measels, polio, MMR etc

Amazing parents you all are. Just fantastic. Not to mention curriculums are about to change worse than in Florida. Amazing pay tons of money to get a crap education in a state that will jail your daughters. Amazing.

Oh please. Get off your high horse. There is nothing worse than liberals who fail to recognize their own privilege in shaming those trying to make choices. And maybe you ought to be grateful that there are liberal bastions in purple states like Ohio and Michigan. It's super easy to surround yourself with like-minded liberals and pat yourself on your back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always wise to check first year retention rate for any school being given serious consideration.

First year retention rates: (Data for period 0f 2017 through Fall 2020)

Kenyon 90%
Grinnell 90%
Oberlin 89%
Denison 88%

According to US News, there are 41 LACs with retention rates above 90%.

90% is very good, but not excellent.

This data is iffy, but it makes sense that lower ranked schools see more transfers than higher ranked schools. A few kids for whom it was more of a Likely than a Reach maybe feel they can climb the ladder. Nowhere for you to really climb if you are already at Williams or Amherst.

My guess is that the first year retention rates for the 4 listed schools - I've visited all them - represents frosh realizing that the remote location is not a good fit for them. Some also may want to see if they can trade up. But that happens at large schools too. I know kids who traded in T20s for T10s after their first year.

Looking at US News data, there seems to be a pretty clear correlation between ranking and retention rate. About 5% of the freshmen leave at the top schools (there is always a reason for an 18 year old to be unhappy), up to 10% leave at lower ranked schools. The delta is probably mostly "trade up" effect. Remoteness probably contributes a little, as does cold in the New England schools (just anecdotally).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kenyon is located where?

Oberlin is located where?

Sending a student to any college in OHIO where they are leaning towards removing all vaccine requirements. Ie measels, polio, MMR etc

Amazing parents you all are. Just fantastic. Not to mention curriculums are about to change worse than in Florida. Amazing pay tons of money to get a crap education in a state that will jail your daughters. Amazing.

Oh please. Get off your high horse. There is nothing worse than liberals who fail to recognize their own privilege in shaming those trying to make choices. And maybe you ought to be grateful that there are liberal bastions in purple states like Ohio and Michigan. It's super easy to surround yourself with like-minded liberals and pat yourself on your back.

So it seems the children of parents who believe their opinions are better than everyone else's, and who will scream at you all day long, and who don't believe in civil dialogue, and who ultimately don't believe in a liberal arts education (because there is only one right answer - theirs), will not be attending college in Ohio. And this is a bad thing for Ohio schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always wise to check first year retention rate for any school being given serious consideration.

First year retention rates: (Data for period 0f 2017 through Fall 2020)

Kenyon 90%
Grinnell 90%
Oberlin 89%
Denison 88%

According to US News, there are 41 LACs with retention rates above 90%.

90% is very good, but not excellent.

This data is iffy, but it makes sense that lower ranked schools see more transfers than higher ranked schools. A few kids for whom it was more of a Likely than a Reach maybe feel they can climb the ladder. Nowhere for you to really climb if you are already at Williams or Amherst.

Why do you think that the "data is iffy" ? Especially since it is the schools which provided the data over the 4 year period immediately before Covid struck.

Actually these retention rates probably do not accurately reflect student satisfaction since all of these schools utilize a golden handcuffs approach of widespread, fairly generous merit scholarship grant awards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always wise to check first year retention rate for any school being given serious consideration.

First year retention rates: (Data for period 0f 2017 through Fall 2020)

Kenyon 90%
Grinnell 90%
Oberlin 89%
Denison 88%

According to US News, there are 41 LACs with retention rates above 90%.

90% is very good, but not excellent.

This data is iffy, but it makes sense that lower ranked schools see more transfers than higher ranked schools. A few kids for whom it was more of a Likely than a Reach maybe feel they can climb the ladder. Nowhere for you to really climb if you are already at Williams or Amherst.

Why do you think that the "data is iffy" ? Especially since it is the schools which provided the data over the 4 year period immediately before Covid struck.

Actually these retention rates probably do not accurately reflect student satisfaction since all of these schools utilize a golden handcuffs approach of widespread, fairly generous merit scholarship grant awards.

I was finding different figures as I searched but the US News data is probably correct. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/freshmen-least-most-likely-return

I stand by my observation that it is mostly correlated with rankings. Carleton has a very high retention rate and Northfield MN isn't exactly non-remote. Nor is Lexington VA but W&L is 97%. Most of these schools are in fairly isolated locations, and some of them have very depressing winters. But the midwest schools certainly have more kids who live more than a few hours from home (the east coast schools tend to skew towards east coast kids whereas the midwest schools are really national with a lot of east coast). Distance from home is probably a variable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always wise to check first year retention rate for any school being given serious consideration.

First year retention rates: (Data for period 0f 2017 through Fall 2020)

Kenyon 90%
Grinnell 90%
Oberlin 89%
Denison 88%

According to US News, there are 41 LACs with retention rates above 90%.

90% is very good, but not excellent.

This data is iffy, but it makes sense that lower ranked schools see more transfers than higher ranked schools. A few kids for whom it was more of a Likely than a Reach maybe feel they can climb the ladder. Nowhere for you to really climb if you are already at Williams or Amherst.

Agree with this although I think the reason why kids transfer from Williams to say Columbia would apply to Kenyon -- some kids realize they really miss being in or near a city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always wise to check first year retention rate for any school being given serious consideration.

First year retention rates: (Data for period 0f 2017 through Fall 2020)

Kenyon 90%
Grinnell 90%
Oberlin 89%
Denison 88%

According to US News, there are 41 LACs with retention rates above 90%.

90% is very good, but not excellent.

This data is iffy, but it makes sense that lower ranked schools see more transfers than higher ranked schools. A few kids for whom it was more of a Likely than a Reach maybe feel they can climb the ladder. Nowhere for you to really climb if you are already at Williams or Amherst.

My guess is that the first year retention rates for the 4 listed schools - I've visited all them - represents frosh realizing that the remote location is not a good fit for them. Some also may want to see if they can trade up. But that happens at large schools too. I know kids who traded in T20s for T10s after their first year.

Totally! DD's friend was basically filling out the Harvard transfer application the summer before she went to Hopkins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always wise to check first year retention rate for any school being given serious consideration.

First year retention rates: (Data for period 0f 2017 through Fall 2020)

Kenyon 90%
Grinnell 90%
Oberlin 89%
Denison 88%

According to US News, there are 41 LACs with retention rates above 90%.

90% is very good, but not excellent.

This data is iffy, but it makes sense that lower ranked schools see more transfers than higher ranked schools. A few kids for whom it was more of a Likely than a Reach maybe feel they can climb the ladder. Nowhere for you to really climb if you are already at Williams or Amherst.

Agree with this although I think the reason why kids transfer from Williams to say Columbia would apply to Kenyon -- some kids realize they really miss being in or near a city.

What does that mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always wise to check first year retention rate for any school being given serious consideration.

First year retention rates: (Data for period 0f 2017 through Fall 2020)

Kenyon 90%
Grinnell 90%
Oberlin 89%
Denison 88%

According to US News, there are 41 LACs with retention rates above 90%.

90% is very good, but not excellent.

This data is iffy, but it makes sense that lower ranked schools see more transfers than higher ranked schools. A few kids for whom it was more of a Likely than a Reach maybe feel they can climb the ladder. Nowhere for you to really climb if you are already at Williams or Amherst.

Agree with this although I think the reason why kids transfer from Williams to say Columbia would apply to Kenyon -- some kids realize they really miss being in or near a city.

What does that mean?

DP--I think this is a grammatical confusion-- it's the REASON--that WOULD APPLY (meaning be applicable) not the KID who would APPLY (meaning seek to gain admission) to KENYON. I love language!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always wise to check first year retention rate for any school being given serious consideration.

First year retention rates: (Data for period 0f 2017 through Fall 2020)

Kenyon 90%
Grinnell 90%
Oberlin 89%
Denison 88%

According to US News, there are 41 LACs with retention rates above 90%.

90% is very good, but not excellent.

This data is iffy, but it makes sense that lower ranked schools see more transfers than higher ranked schools. A few kids for whom it was more of a Likely than a Reach maybe feel they can climb the ladder. Nowhere for you to really climb if you are already at Williams or Amherst.

Agree with this although I think the reason why kids transfer from Williams to say Columbia would apply to Kenyon -- some kids realize they really miss being in or near a city.

What does that mean?

NP- seems like kids may transfer for all kinds of reasons. I've heard: 1) too small 2) too large 3) too cold 4) too rural 5) too urban 6) too far from home 7) not making friends 8) health/mental health 9) family circumstances. The one thing that seems constant though is that they are less likely to transfer FROM highly ranked schools because it's pretty hard to justify. Kids may be unhappy at HYP but most of the time the rational thing to do will be to make the best of it. If a kid is unhappy and there is upgrade potential, or even if not particularly unhappy, you can see the temptation to send out some transfer applications.