Why don’t schools have stronger policies about redshirting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have a normal, bright child, then redshirting seems crazy. They're going to be bored repeating the same grade, they should be with children at similar maturity levels and you're going to give the kid an inferiority complex. They're going to wonder why they were held back when kids who are the same age moved ahead.

Do you think parents don’t talk to bright four and five year olds? If you ask my daughter why she is in preK another year she’ll tell you it’s to learn more of her second language and do more global travel. She’s not weeping about being “held back”

Are you seriously asking me to take a preschooler's word for it?

Makes a heck of a lot more sense than taking some random angry person on the internet’s word for how a hypothetical kid she’s never met and doesn’t care about feels.

DP but no one should take the word of a preschooler who claims they need to repeat preschool in order to focus on "global travel" and burnish her second language. That's idiotic.

If you say so, but that’s what she’s doing instead of looking at a computer in a room full of kids more than a year older than her, which is what she’d be doing if we sent “on time”. Make whatever choices for your kids you want but you’re not going to somehow convince me my bilingual, well traveled, literate five year old is somehow a victim.

Sounds like you have bigger problems. No elementary school kid should be staring at a laptop. You need to find a new school.

[Anonymous]

My kid is in 3rd grade in a decent but not great public elementary school and has literally never spent hours staring at a laptop. Yes there is screen time (too much!) but most kids I know are getting more screen time at home than at school.

Kindergarten was usually:

About 60-90 of direct instruction (including small groups for more personalized instruction).

About 90 minutes of centers time (and yes one of the centers was tablets for I-Ready, but they rotated through them and the other centers were all hands on and interactive -- games, blocks, magnetiles, etc.)

90 minutes of specials (they rotated, so on any given day this would be PE, music, Spanish, or art). No screens in specials.

90 minute of lunch and recess (I wish less of this time was spent lining up, walking to the cafeteria, lining up, walking to the playground, lining up, walking back to the classroom).

The rest of the time was stuff like morning meeting, clean up time, etc.

It was much more academic than preschool but it was still an active, developmentally appropriate day. I would have liked more outdoor time and fewer worksheets, but it's public and I know it's never going to be perfect.

Some of you are talking about kindergarten like it's jail or something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in 3rd grade in a decent but not great public elementary school and has literally never spent hours staring at a laptop. Yes there is screen time (too much!) but most kids I know are getting more screen time at home than at school.

Kindergarten was usually:

About 60-90 of direct instruction (including small groups for more personalized instruction).

About 90 minutes of centers time (and yes one of the centers was tablets for I-Ready, but they rotated through them and the other centers were all hands on and interactive -- games, blocks, magnetiles, etc.)

90 minutes of specials (they rotated, so on any given day this would be PE, music, Spanish, or art). No screens in specials.

90 minute of lunch and recess (I wish less of this time was spent lining up, walking to the cafeteria, lining up, walking to the playground, lining up, walking back to the classroom).

The rest of the time was stuff like morning meeting, clean up time, etc.

It was much more academic than preschool but it was still an active, developmentally appropriate day. I would have liked more outdoor time and fewer worksheets, but it's public and I know it's never going to be perfect.

Some of you are talking about kindergarten like it's jail or something.

Less than an hour per day outside, screen time, and significant time on worksheets are all absolutely not “developmentally appropriate” for a 4 year old. Don’t kid yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in 3rd grade in a decent but not great public elementary school and has literally never spent hours staring at a laptop. Yes there is screen time (too much!) but most kids I know are getting more screen time at home than at school.

Kindergarten was usually:

About 60-90 of direct instruction (including small groups for more personalized instruction).

About 90 minutes of centers time (and yes one of the centers was tablets for I-Ready, but they rotated through them and the other centers were all hands on and interactive -- games, blocks, magnetiles, etc.)

90 minutes of specials (they rotated, so on any given day this would be PE, music, Spanish, or art). No screens in specials.

90 minute of lunch and recess (I wish less of this time was spent lining up, walking to the cafeteria, lining up, walking to the playground, lining up, walking back to the classroom).

The rest of the time was stuff like morning meeting, clean up time, etc.

It was much more academic than preschool but it was still an active, developmentally appropriate day. I would have liked more outdoor time and fewer worksheets, but it's public and I know it's never going to be perfect.

Some of you are talking about kindergarten like it's jail or something.

Less than an hour per day outside, screen time, and significant time on worksheets are all absolutely not “developmentally appropriate” for a 4 year old. Don’t kid yourself.

My kid wasn't 4 in kindergarten, she was 5. And stuff like worksheets and lack of outdoor time also suck when your kid is 6. But there really were not tons of worksheets in K, and there was more outdoor time than later grades (in addition to recess, PE was outside weather permitting, some lessons took place in the garden or outdoor classroom, and aftercare was entirely outside, so it really wasn't much different from preschool in terms of outdoor time). The screen time in K is really minimal IME -- like 15 minutes on a tablet while waiting for small group time, or watching a 10 minute video about the moon or something.

The added academic instruction in K, as compared to preschool, was almost entirely teacher led. That's a good thing! My kid loved small groups for math and reading, and got a lot out of whole group instruction too, even when it involved worksheets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in 3rd grade in a decent but not great public elementary school and has literally never spent hours staring at a laptop. Yes there is screen time (too much!) but most kids I know are getting more screen time at home than at school.

Kindergarten was usually:

About 60-90 of direct instruction (including small groups for more personalized instruction).

About 90 minutes of centers time (and yes one of the centers was tablets for I-Ready, but they rotated through them and the other centers were all hands on and interactive -- games, blocks, magnetiles, etc.)

90 minutes of specials (they rotated, so on any given day this would be PE, music, Spanish, or art). No screens in specials.

90 minute of lunch and recess (I wish less of this time was spent lining up, walking to the cafeteria, lining up, walking to the playground, lining up, walking back to the classroom).

The rest of the time was stuff like morning meeting, clean up time, etc.

It was much more academic than preschool but it was still an active, developmentally appropriate day. I would have liked more outdoor time and fewer worksheets, but it's public and I know it's never going to be perfect.

Some of you are talking about kindergarten like it's jail or something.

Less than an hour per day outside, screen time, and significant time on worksheets are all absolutely not “developmentally appropriate” for a 4 year old. Don’t kid yourself.

My kid wasn't 4 in kindergarten, she was 5. And stuff like worksheets and lack of outdoor time also suck when your kid is 6. But there really were not tons of worksheets in K, and there was more outdoor time than later grades (in addition to recess, PE was outside weather permitting, some lessons took place in the garden or outdoor classroom, and aftercare was entirely outside, so it really wasn't much different from preschool in terms of outdoor time). The screen time in K is really minimal IME -- like 15 minutes on a tablet while waiting for small group time, or watching a 10 minute video about the moon or something.

The added academic instruction in K, as compared to preschool, was almost entirely teacher led. That's a good thing! My kid loved small groups for math and reading, and got a lot out of whole group instruction too, even when it involved worksheets.

Ok, but “on time” means four for August and September birthdays. It’s not developmentally appropriate to spend less than an hour outdoors, whatever you think about screen time and worksheets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in 3rd grade in a decent but not great public elementary school and has literally never spent hours staring at a laptop. Yes there is screen time (too much!) but most kids I know are getting more screen time at home than at school.

Kindergarten was usually:

About 60-90 of direct instruction (including small groups for more personalized instruction).

About 90 minutes of centers time (and yes one of the centers was tablets for I-Ready, but they rotated through them and the other centers were all hands on and interactive -- games, blocks, magnetiles, etc.)

90 minutes of specials (they rotated, so on any given day this would be PE, music, Spanish, or art). No screens in specials.

90 minute of lunch and recess (I wish less of this time was spent lining up, walking to the cafeteria, lining up, walking to the playground, lining up, walking back to the classroom).

The rest of the time was stuff like morning meeting, clean up time, etc.

It was much more academic than preschool but it was still an active, developmentally appropriate day. I would have liked more outdoor time and fewer worksheets, but it's public and I know it's never going to be perfect.

Some of you are talking about kindergarten like it's jail or something.

Less than an hour per day outside, screen time, and significant time on worksheets are all absolutely not “developmentally appropriate” for a 4 year old. Don’t kid yourself.

My kid wasn't 4 in kindergarten, she was 5. And stuff like worksheets and lack of outdoor time also suck when your kid is 6. But there really were not tons of worksheets in K, and there was more outdoor time than later grades (in addition to recess, PE was outside weather permitting, some lessons took place in the garden or outdoor classroom, and aftercare was entirely outside, so it really wasn't much different from preschool in terms of outdoor time). The screen time in K is really minimal IME -- like 15 minutes on a tablet while waiting for small group time, or watching a 10 minute video about the moon or something.

The added academic instruction in K, as compared to preschool, was almost entirely teacher led. That's a good thing! My kid loved small groups for math and reading, and got a lot out of whole group instruction too, even when it involved worksheets.

Ok, but “on time” means four for August and September birthdays. It’s not developmentally appropriate to spend less than an hour outdoors, whatever you think about screen time and worksheets.

Dp. Are your kids not spending time outdoors after school? Aftercare at our school is outdoors, which is great because the kids who are 6, 7, 8, etc, need outdoor time too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in 3rd grade in a decent but not great public elementary school and has literally never spent hours staring at a laptop. Yes there is screen time (too much!) but most kids I know are getting more screen time at home than at school.

Kindergarten was usually:

About 60-90 of direct instruction (including small groups for more personalized instruction).

About 90 minutes of centers time (and yes one of the centers was tablets for I-Ready, but they rotated through them and the other centers were all hands on and interactive -- games, blocks, magnetiles, etc.)

90 minutes of specials (they rotated, so on any given day this would be PE, music, Spanish, or art). No screens in specials.

90 minute of lunch and recess (I wish less of this time was spent lining up, walking to the cafeteria, lining up, walking to the playground, lining up, walking back to the classroom).

The rest of the time was stuff like morning meeting, clean up time, etc.

It was much more academic than preschool but it was still an active, developmentally appropriate day. I would have liked more outdoor time and fewer worksheets, but it's public and I know it's never going to be perfect.

Some of you are talking about kindergarten like it's jail or something.

Less than an hour per day outside, screen time, and significant time on worksheets are all absolutely not “developmentally appropriate” for a 4 year old. Don’t kid yourself.

My kid wasn't 4 in kindergarten, she was 5. And stuff like worksheets and lack of outdoor time also suck when your kid is 6. But there really were not tons of worksheets in K, and there was more outdoor time than later grades (in addition to recess, PE was outside weather permitting, some lessons took place in the garden or outdoor classroom, and aftercare was entirely outside, so it really wasn't much different from preschool in terms of outdoor time). The screen time in K is really minimal IME -- like 15 minutes on a tablet while waiting for small group time, or watching a 10 minute video about the moon or something.

The added academic instruction in K, as compared to preschool, was almost entirely teacher led. That's a good thing! My kid loved small groups for math and reading, and got a lot out of whole group instruction too, even when it involved worksheets.

Ok, but “on time” means four for August and September birthdays. It’s not developmentally appropriate to spend less than an hour outdoors, whatever you think about screen time and worksheets.

Dp. Are your kids not spending time outdoors after school? Aftercare at our school is outdoors, which is great because the kids who are 6, 7, 8, etc, need outdoor time too.

My kid? Is spending 4-6 hours outdoors because her preK program focuses on it. From Nov-March there just aren’t enough daylight hours to get younger kids outside if the whole school day only provides 30-60 min.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody with a brain wants their kid to be the youngest so this is a game that always has losers.

Many people would prefer this.

Being on the older side:

It makes them more socially mature when can help navigate school situations easier.

All top students end up on accelerated tracks so they just end up at the very highest or beyond accelerated track.

An extra year of AP classes in high school can save a year of college tuition.

Depending on the sport, it can give them an extra year to train and grow before college recruitment.


This idea that kids need to struggle is probably true, however you let them struggle on a highest accelerated track rather than the standard track.

What makes you assume younger kids will not academically achieve? So, you hold the, back, pay an extra year of preschool to pressure them to speed up to skip a year of college. Why skip a year of college?

They aren’t more mature. They are less mature if they are older with younger kids.

Just as an example, my kid was already 2 years ahead academically and then we redshirted and now 3+ years ahead academically. It didn’t slow him down at all because he would always need acceleration. What the class covers would never be helpful.

What, do you have your kid tested? What is with mothers claiming their five year old are 2 years ahead academically? With regard to what exactly ? Then keep a kid back with kids a year younger so he could be the big smart kid ?

“ It’s not what the class covers.” No kidding, it’s kindergarten. Unless he was socially awkward and that might be the case there would be no reason to repeat preschool. If he was in fact two years ahead, and I’m not sure what that means at this age, the preschool would say he needs to move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody with a brain wants their kid to be the youngest so this is a game that always has losers.

Many people would prefer this.

Being on the older side:

It makes them more socially mature when can help navigate school situations easier.

All top students end up on accelerated tracks so they just end up at the very highest or beyond accelerated track.

An extra year of AP classes in high school can save a year of college tuition.

Depending on the sport, it can give them an extra year to train and grow before college recruitment.


This idea that kids need to struggle is probably true, however you let them struggle on a highest accelerated track rather than the standard track.

What makes you assume younger kids will not academically achieve? So, you hold the, back, pay an extra year of preschool to pressure them to speed up to skip a year of college. Why skip a year of college?

They aren’t more mature. They are less mature if they are older with younger kids.

Just as an example, my kid was already 2 years ahead academically and then we redshirted and now 3+ years ahead academically. It didn’t slow him down at all because he would always need acceleration. What the class covers would never be helpful.

What, do you have your kid tested? What is with mothers claiming their five year old are 2 years ahead academically? With regard to what exactly ? Then keep a kid back with kids a year younger so he could be the big smart kid ?

“ It’s not what the class covers.” No kidding, it’s kindergarten. Unless he was socially awkward and that might be the case there would be no reason to repeat preschool. If he was in fact two years ahead, and I’m not sure what that means at this age, the preschool would say he needs to move on.

Most high quality preKs around here have redshirt classrooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody with a brain wants their kid to be the youngest so this is a game that always has losers.

Many people would prefer this.

Being on the older side:

It makes them more socially mature when can help navigate school situations easier.

All top students end up on accelerated tracks so they just end up at the very highest or beyond accelerated track.

An extra year of AP classes in high school can save a year of college tuition.

Depending on the sport, it can give them an extra year to train and grow before college recruitment.


This idea that kids need to struggle is probably true, however you let them struggle on a highest accelerated track rather than the standard track.

What makes you assume younger kids will not academically achieve? So, you hold the, back, pay an extra year of preschool to pressure them to speed up to skip a year of college. Why skip a year of college?

They aren’t more mature. They are less mature if they are older with younger kids.

Just as an example, my kid was already 2 years ahead academically and then we redshirted and now 3+ years ahead academically. It didn’t slow him down at all because he would always need acceleration. What the class covers would never be helpful.

What, do you have your kid tested? What is with mothers claiming their five year old are 2 years ahead academically? With regard to what exactly ? Then keep a kid back with kids a year younger so he could be the big smart kid ?

“ It’s not what the class covers.” No kidding, it’s kindergarten. Unless he was socially awkward and that might be the case there would be no reason to repeat preschool. If he was in fact two years ahead, and I’m not sure what that means at this age, the preschool would say he needs to move on.

Yes, reading level, math skills, and writing were tested. Those were conservative estimates, reading level is currently 5-6 grade levels ahead. Kid gets pulled out for advanced individual work regardless of the specific grade level work that the other kids are covering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody with a brain wants their kid to be the youngest so this is a game that always has losers.

Many people would prefer this.

Being on the older side:

It makes them more socially mature when can help navigate school situations easier.

All top students end up on accelerated tracks so they just end up at the very highest or beyond accelerated track.

An extra year of AP classes in high school can save a year of college tuition.

Depending on the sport, it can give them an extra year to train and grow before college recruitment.


This idea that kids need to struggle is probably true, however you let them struggle on a highest accelerated track rather than the standard track.

What makes you assume younger kids will not academically achieve? So, you hold the, back, pay an extra year of preschool to pressure them to speed up to skip a year of college. Why skip a year of college?

They aren’t more mature. They are less mature if they are older with younger kids.

Just as an example, my kid was already 2 years ahead academically and then we redshirted and now 3+ years ahead academically. It didn’t slow him down at all because he would always need acceleration. What the class covers would never be helpful.

What, do you have your kid tested? What is with mothers claiming their five year old are 2 years ahead academically? With regard to what exactly ? Then keep a kid back with kids a year younger so he could be the big smart kid ?

“ It’s not what the class covers.” No kidding, it’s kindergarten. Unless he was socially awkward and that might be the case there would be no reason to repeat preschool. If he was in fact two years ahead, and I’m not sure what that means at this age, the preschool would say he needs to move on.

Most high quality preKs around here have redshirt classrooms.

Correct, kid was in a redshirt only classroom so it was not a repeat of K but had a differentiated curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody with a brain wants their kid to be the youngest so this is a game that always has losers.

Many people would prefer this.

Being on the older side:

It makes them more socially mature when can help navigate school situations easier.

All top students end up on accelerated tracks so they just end up at the very highest or beyond accelerated track.

An extra year of AP classes in high school can save a year of college tuition.

Depending on the sport, it can give them an extra year to train and grow before college recruitment.


This idea that kids need to struggle is probably true, however you let them struggle on a highest accelerated track rather than the standard track.

What makes you assume younger kids will not academically achieve? So, you hold the, back, pay an extra year of preschool to pressure them to speed up to skip a year of college. Why skip a year of college?

They aren’t more mature. They are less mature if they are older with younger kids.

Just as an example, my kid was already 2 years ahead academically and then we redshirted and now 3+ years ahead academically. It didn’t slow him down at all because he would always need acceleration. What the class covers would never be helpful.

What, do you have your kid tested? What is with mothers claiming their five year old are 2 years ahead academically? With regard to what exactly ? Then keep a kid back with kids a year younger so he could be the big smart kid ?

“ It’s not what the class covers.” No kidding, it’s kindergarten. Unless he was socially awkward and that might be the case there would be no reason to repeat preschool. If he was in fact two years ahead, and I’m not sure what that means at this age, the preschool would say he needs to move on.

Most high quality preKs around here have redshirt classrooms.

Correct, kid was in a redshirt only classroom so it was not a repeat of K but had a differentiated curriculum.

I will add that being an adult sucks so we had the option to let our kid have another year at childhood and jumped at it. If that upsets you, look in the mirror and figure out what that says about yourself.

[Anonymous]

Whatever you may think of it, the trend in public education in the last few years is towards greater, and not less, parent choice. It’s safe to assume redshirting will continue or increase, and so smart parents will work with their children to make sure they can thrive with peers across several years. Stomping feet and hoping that someone makes it so you can control the choices other families make is unlikely to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whatever you may think of it, the trend in public education in the last few years is towards greater, and not less, parent choice. It’s safe to assume redshirting will continue or increase, and so smart parents will work with their children to make sure they can thrive with peers across several years. Stomping feet and hoping that someone makes it so you can control the choices other families make is unlikely to help.

Or just go to a Montessori. There's virtually no computers, there's no weird psychodramas about which kid is the youngest and what that could possibly mean, and the kids are free to run as far ahead of their peers as they like. It's totally normal for one kid in a class to be working on material that's two grades ahead alongside another kid who is behind grade level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whatever you may think of it, the trend in public education in the last few years is towards greater, and not less, parent choice. It’s safe to assume redshirting will continue or increase, and so smart parents will work with their children to make sure they can thrive with peers across several years. Stomping feet and hoping that someone makes it so you can control the choices other families make is unlikely to help.

DC just did the opposite. They are now enforcing rules against redshirting.

Not to say that there isn't wisdom in your advice...