Why don’t schools have stronger policies about redshirting?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:We live in a very heavy redshirt area. We moved from DC right before kinder. My son is June and his grade is very old. I just found out two more friends are now being held back. He’s incoming first. One has a Feb bday and the other March. Our cut off date is Sep1. They are struggling with reading but the gap is just becoming very large for the kids on time. This is a public school. Right now even with June he’s the youngest boy in the grade. When we started I actually asked admin these questions and they weren’t honest about it and said most went on time born in summer. Once we started I realized almost everyone from March on redshirted so he’s significantly younger. He’s doing fine but I wish the school was honest about it prior to starting as he’s made friends now so it would be a big transition to do it now.

Going back to MARCH?! I have never heard of such a thing barring a strong academic or social reason.

My second grader is a June, started on time, and has at least 4-5 classmates with summer birthdays.

yes. it tends to be hyperactive obnoxious boys with behavioral issues. sometimes the extra time helps and sometimes it doesn't. occasionally its a tiger parent.

The boys who are hyperactive obnoxious and have behavioral issues will still have them a year later.

Not necessarily. Unless you somehow think kids never grow up, mature or evolve.

DP but I think the PP is right. Maturity is one thing, but that's different than hyperactivity and behavioral issues.

Maturity issue that can improve with redshirting: A 4 yr old with a September birthday who gets the wiggles during a 15 minute reading lesson and starts climbing under the table or staring out the window. This child will mature into a longer attention span with a year delay.

Behavioral issue or SN: A 5 yr old who cannot sit still for more than 2-3 minutes, and impulsively sings or bangs on the table when he feels bored or distracted. This child may have ADHD or another SN, should be evaluated, and may actually benefit from starting on time with an IEP. A year delay for this child may result in these behaviors getting worse because they may be easier to mask in a PK classroom where there is less focus time or with younger kids whose immaturity helps masks this child's SNs.

Maturity issue: A younger child who is still grasping the concepts of sharing and waiting turns might struggle in a K classroom where older kids have learned to resolve these issues without crying or adult intervention. This child might benefit socially from redshirting, so that they can handle the behavioral expectations of K without being labeled a "crybaby" by peers.

Behavioral issue or SN: A child who resolves sharing/waiting issues by hitting or screaming at other kids is not immature, but has maladaptive behaviors that need to be treated or they will worsen with time. An elementary school is generally better equipped to deal with kids like this, with SN staffing and often a social worker on staff. Redshirting this child will not change these behaviors but could make them worse when they finally start K, as an older and bigger child who now seems more threatening to the other kids. He won't be labeled a crybaby but may be labeled a bully or "mean kid" even if these behaviors are impulsive or the result of neurodivergence that just needs intervention and treatment.

You are over generalizing. A child with sn is not going to be cured by holding back. They need support, guidance and therapies.

Not all four year olds are wiggly. Some six year olds are. Kids don’t need to be mature. It’s an inappropriate concept for young kids. My kid went a few weeks before five. K is where they learn, grow and mature. Holding the, back in the same preschool that did not prepare them in the first place makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Feel bad for the kids of the parents on this thread. Redshirting screams "I don't accept my kid for the person they are." And those parents are going to be *so* disappointed when redshirting (inevitable) fails to transform their child into the child they hoped for.

I accept my son for who he was. I don't accept the public school system that demands 5 year old boys sit still for hours on end doing worksheets. The education system is the problem, not my kid. Hence he will repeat PreK.

No kindergarten class sits for hours doing worksheets, that’s ridiculous. Repeating pre-k will bore a bright kid and kindergarten will happen, just a year later.

A day in a kindergarten classroom or pre-k classroom is generally so chaotic with lots of lining up to go to recess, wash hands, go to lunch, so much noise, crying, laughing, etc no kid is really bored the whole time. And if they are bored it’s probably because their parents drilled them to death with boring worksheets to teach them everything in advance just to make the experience worse?

Neither the preschool or kindergarten classrooms for my kids were "so chaotic." They were both nurturing, enjoyable environments. But they would have been bored in their preschool classroom largely because they were both starting to sound out words and phrases by the summer before K and knew their numbers and could do very basic addition and subtraction. My experience is that preschool would not have offered any enrichment in these areas, because that's just not the focus of preschool. Whereas their K classroom offered daily phonics instruction and small group lessons in math and reading, and this opened up a whole new world for them in terms of understanding the world around them. I don't know why I would delay that a full year.

Nothing against redshirting, there are of course kids who are not ready for K. But also there are definitely kids who are ready with K (even with summer birthdays, both my kids have summer birthdays) and if there isn't a tangible reason to hold back I have no idea why you would? K is really great.

Clearly you have never spent a single day in these classrooms. I used to volunteer in a classroom and I have no idea how those teachers did it day in and day out. If you’re used to working with adults all day, spending a day in a K classroom not remotely the same. Nobody is saying hold back every kid for no reason but certainly some want to eliminate the possibility of choice for all kids. And nobody is denying these kids anything, they will get to K when they get there and have an extra year of childhood to explore, wonder, and do what kids do. There’s no prize for finishing the youngest in class.

I've spent a lot of time in both pre-K and K classrooms. If they feel "chaotic" to you, then either the classrooms are poorly managed or you are overly sensitive. Kids this age need a lot of guidance, but good PK and K classrooms don't feel chaotic at all. It's not some wild free for all.

In any case, redshirting does not give kids "an extra year of childhood." I'm not anti redshirting, if my kid had a September birthday, for instance, I would definitely have redshirted, and I'd consider it for a summer birthday if they were on the immature side. But kids develop when they develop. Redshirting doesn't keep them younger longer. And if, for instance, a child is eager to read and enjoys academics, I do think it would be unfair to keep them from a K classroom they are old enough to be in, and delay them learning those skills an extra year, because becoming a reader is actually how many kids "explore, wonder, and do what kids do."

Redshirting can make sense but it won't magically make your kids younger than they are. I am wary of an argument that you should try to stunt your child's growth to help keep them children longer. That's just not how it works. Redshirting should be used to keep kids at similar maturity levels together, not to try and trick time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feel bad for the kids of the parents on this thread. Redshirting screams "I don't accept my kid for the person they are." And those parents are going to be *so* disappointed when redshirting (inevitable) fails to transform their child into the child they hoped for.

I accept my son for who he was. I don't accept the public school system that demands 5 year old boys sit still for hours on end doing worksheets. The education system is the problem, not my kid. Hence he will repeat PreK.

No kindergarten class sits for hours doing worksheets, that’s ridiculous. Repeating pre-k will bore a bright kid and kindergarten will happen, just a year later.

A day in a kindergarten classroom or pre-k classroom is generally so chaotic with lots of lining up to go to recess, wash hands, go to lunch, so much noise, crying, laughing, etc no kid is really bored the whole time. And if they are bored it’s probably because their parents drilled them to death with boring worksheets to teach them everything in advance just to make the experience worse?

Neither the preschool or kindergarten classrooms for my kids were "so chaotic." They were both nurturing, enjoyable environments. But they would have been bored in their preschool classroom largely because they were both starting to sound out words and phrases by the summer before K and knew their numbers and could do very basic addition and subtraction. My experience is that preschool would not have offered any enrichment in these areas, because that's just not the focus of preschool. Whereas their K classroom offered daily phonics instruction and small group lessons in math and reading, and this opened up a whole new world for them in terms of understanding the world around them. I don't know why I would delay that a full year.

Nothing against redshirting, there are of course kids who are not ready for K. But also there are definitely kids who are ready with K (even with summer birthdays, both my kids have summer birthdays) and if there isn't a tangible reason to hold back I have no idea why you would? K is really great.

Clearly you have never spent a single day in these classrooms. I used to volunteer in a classroom and I have no idea how those teachers did it day in and day out. If you’re used to working with adults all day, spending a day in a K classroom not remotely the same. Nobody is saying hold back every kid for no reason but certainly some want to eliminate the possibility of choice for all kids. And nobody is denying these kids anything, they will get to K when they get there and have an extra year of childhood to explore, wonder, and do what kids do. There’s no prize for finishing the youngest in class.

I've spent a lot of time in both pre-K and K classrooms. If they feel "chaotic" to you, then either the classrooms are poorly managed or you are overly sensitive. Kids this age need a lot of guidance, but good PK and K classrooms don't feel chaotic at all. It's not some wild free for all.

In any case, redshirting does not give kids "an extra year of childhood." I'm not anti redshirting, if my kid had a September birthday, for instance, I would definitely have redshirted, and I'd consider it for a summer birthday if they were on the immature side. But kids develop when they develop. Redshirting doesn't keep them younger longer. And if, for instance, a child is eager to read and enjoys academics, I do think it would be unfair to keep them from a K classroom they are old enough to be in, and delay them learning those skills an extra year, because becoming a reader is actually how many kids "explore, wonder, and do what kids do."

Redshirting can make sense but it won't magically make your kids younger than they are. I am wary of an argument that you should try to stunt your child's growth to help keep them children longer. That's just not how it works. Redshirting should be used to keep kids at similar maturity levels together, not to try and trick time.

Exactly what are your qualifications for any of the advice you are dispensing? You’re trying to sound like an authority, but wildly missing the mark.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feel bad for the kids of the parents on this thread. Redshirting screams "I don't accept my kid for the person they are." And those parents are going to be *so* disappointed when redshirting (inevitable) fails to transform their child into the child they hoped for.

I accept my son for who he was. I don't accept the public school system that demands 5 year old boys sit still for hours on end doing worksheets. The education system is the problem, not my kid. Hence he will repeat PreK.

No kindergarten class sits for hours doing worksheets, that’s ridiculous. Repeating pre-k will bore a bright kid and kindergarten will happen, just a year later.

A day in a kindergarten classroom or pre-k classroom is generally so chaotic with lots of lining up to go to recess, wash hands, go to lunch, so much noise, crying, laughing, etc no kid is really bored the whole time. And if they are bored it’s probably because their parents drilled them to death with boring worksheets to teach them everything in advance just to make the experience worse?

Neither the preschool or kindergarten classrooms for my kids were "so chaotic." They were both nurturing, enjoyable environments. But they would have been bored in their preschool classroom largely because they were both starting to sound out words and phrases by the summer before K and knew their numbers and could do very basic addition and subtraction. My experience is that preschool would not have offered any enrichment in these areas, because that's just not the focus of preschool. Whereas their K classroom offered daily phonics instruction and small group lessons in math and reading, and this opened up a whole new world for them in terms of understanding the world around them. I don't know why I would delay that a full year.

Nothing against redshirting, there are of course kids who are not ready for K. But also there are definitely kids who are ready with K (even with summer birthdays, both my kids have summer birthdays) and if there isn't a tangible reason to hold back I have no idea why you would? K is really great.

Clearly you have never spent a single day in these classrooms. I used to volunteer in a classroom and I have no idea how those teachers did it day in and day out. If you’re used to working with adults all day, spending a day in a K classroom not remotely the same. Nobody is saying hold back every kid for no reason but certainly some want to eliminate the possibility of choice for all kids. And nobody is denying these kids anything, they will get to K when they get there and have an extra year of childhood to explore, wonder, and do what kids do. There’s no prize for finishing the youngest in class.

I've spent a lot of time in both pre-K and K classrooms. If they feel "chaotic" to you, then either the classrooms are poorly managed or you are overly sensitive. Kids this age need a lot of guidance, but good PK and K classrooms don't feel chaotic at all. It's not some wild free for all.

In any case, redshirting does not give kids "an extra year of childhood." I'm not anti redshirting, if my kid had a September birthday, for instance, I would definitely have redshirted, and I'd consider it for a summer birthday if they were on the immature side. But kids develop when they develop. Redshirting doesn't keep them younger longer. And if, for instance, a child is eager to read and enjoys academics, I do think it would be unfair to keep them from a K classroom they are old enough to be in, and delay them learning those skills an extra year, because becoming a reader is actually how many kids "explore, wonder, and do what kids do."

Redshirting can make sense but it won't magically make your kids younger than they are. I am wary of an argument that you should try to stunt your child's growth to help keep them children longer. That's just not how it works. Redshirting should be used to keep kids at similar maturity levels together, not to try and trick time.

Our PreK taught reading and we considered it as parents our responsibility to teach reading at home. It’s too fundamental to leave up to chance. If you are not going to teach your kid to read you must absolutely send them to K as early as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Redshirting at the publics gives very little academic advantage in my experience. (I know privates are different, and I understand it's a different educational experience, with different norms and expectations, and classes carefully selected to weed out problem kids.) If you are considering redshirting for public, maybe you would be better off at a private, where it would actually make some difference. A public elementary generally will not provide differentiation for kids who are advanced are ahead of their peers.

Your experience seems to be limited if you can’t understand that parents could want to redshirt their kids for any reason besides gaining an advantage, academic or otherwise, over their peers. Have you considered that they may have troubles that the parents are hoping to mitigate by postponing K for a year to minimize the DISadvantages they would otherwise face?

Moreover, many kids (redshirted or not) would be better off at a private, but that doesn’t make it any more accessible to the majority of families, who just can’t afford it.

Obviously there are other very good and totally valid reasons for redshirting, but that doesnt change the fact that, say, a third of the redshirting cases are more about parental anxiety over their child's achievement. All I'm saying is that redshirting so your child can be top dog at a middling public school is foolish. I am pro redshirting for kids who actually need it, not these dumb strivers.