Another Black Eye for Penn

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is buying this, you can stop spamming the forum. The rich spoiled layabout needs to get off Twitter and DCUM and go get a real job. Imagine the gall to pretend to be poor kid and you’ve never worked a day in your life.

Yes, because graduating with honors and supporting yourself through college isn't work?

Turns out that scared teenager writing in her journal was 100% right. People will often side with the abusers.

You are a broken record circling back to fake inflated grades. Nobody cares about a rich spoiled brat’s As and Bs at a ritzy day school or As and Bs in a soft major at Penn CAS. Or the soft master’s. No mention of standardized test scores because they are dire, which exposes her for the midwit leech she is.

WTF is wrong with you?

"Why do you care so much?" Again, the closed circle of response.

You are not allowed to question the story of Mackenzie Fierceton.

Who conveniently changed her last name in the run up to applying for the Rhodes. Totally normal and not at all deceptive behavior.

DP. She changed her name after her mother’s trial to try to make it harder for her mother to find her (since her mother had already been stalking her and harassing her at college). If she had changed her name before the trial, she would have had to disclose her new name to everyone involved, including her mother.

In other words Rhodes could google her and it would get new hits on her rich doctor
mom while she was lying to them about being a foster kid from a poor first gen family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is buying this, you can stop spamming the forum. The rich spoiled layabout needs to get off Twitter and DCUM and go get a real job. Imagine the gall to pretend to be poor kid and you’ve never worked a day in your life.

Yes, because graduating with honors and supporting yourself through college isn't work?

Turns out that scared teenager writing in her journal was 100% right. People will often side with the abusers.

You are a broken record circling back to fake inflated grades. Nobody cares about a rich spoiled brat’s As and Bs at a ritzy day school or As and Bs in a soft major at Penn CAS. Or the soft master’s. No mention of standardized test scores because they are dire, which exposes her for the midwit leech she is.

WTF is wrong with you?

"Why do you care so much?" Again, the closed circle of response.

You are not allowed to question the story of Mackenzie Fierceton.

Who conveniently changed her last name in the run up to applying for the Rhodes. Totally normal and not at all deceptive behavior.

DP. She changed her name after her mother’s trial to try to make it harder for her mother to find her (since her mother had already been stalking her and harassing her at college). If she had changed her name before the trial, she would have had to disclose her new name to everyone involved, including her mother.

In other words Rhodes could google her and it would get new hits on her rich doctor
mom while she was lying to them about being a foster kid from a poor first gen family?

Wouldn’t they know her real/original name no matter what because of her HS information and undergrad transcripts would have had her real name?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is buying this, you can stop spamming the forum. The rich spoiled layabout needs to get off Twitter and DCUM and go get a real job. Imagine the gall to pretend to be poor kid and you’ve never worked a day in your life.

Yes, because graduating with honors and supporting yourself through college isn't work?

Turns out that scared teenager writing in her journal was 100% right. People will often side with the abusers.

You are a broken record circling back to fake inflated grades. Nobody cares about a rich spoiled brat’s As and Bs at a ritzy day school or As and Bs in a soft major at Penn CAS. Or the soft master’s. No mention of standardized test scores because they are dire, which exposes her for the midwit leech she is.

WTF is wrong with you?

"Why do you care so much?" Again, the closed circle of response.

You are not allowed to question the story of Mackenzie Fierceton.

Who conveniently changed her last name in the run up to applying for the Rhodes. Totally normal and not at all deceptive behavior.

DP. She changed her name after her mother’s trial to try to make it harder for her mother to find her (since her mother had already been stalking her and harassing her at college). If she had changed her name before the trial, she would have had to disclose her new name to everyone involved, including her mother.

In other words Rhodes could google her and it would get new hits on her rich doctor
mom while she was lying to them about being a foster kid from a poor first gen family?

Wouldn’t they know her real/original name no matter what because of her HS information and undergrad transcripts would have had her real name?

Sure, but less likely. I never graduated high school, but nobody really looked at my high school transcripts after I graduated from university.

At some point they did, and it came up in medical school, but that was a pretty long run without anyone noticing I didn't have either a high school degree or a GED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please run that long post through some identification software and compare it to some of Mackenzie's previous writing?

Hey loser, you do it. This story reminds me of Monica Lewinsky. Essentially a kid held to a higher standard than the adults and institutions around her. And we know how well that story aged. It’s widely accepted now that Lewinsky was the victim of a higher coordinated bully campaign. Shameful. And that goes to those posting here relentlessly trying to deflect blame away from where it is deserved—her diabolical mother, her mother’s abusive boyfriend, the legal system, UPenn.

I'm the pp who said that I don't think Mackenzie deserves all the blame. She had a long psychiatric hospitalization. She definitely came from a dysfunctional family.
This doesn't excuse her from manipulating the system, but it doesn't mean that she was the victim in every possible way imaginable either.

The real truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

DP. Oh, agreed.

And I also don't want someone with that history -- and who is still doubling down and attacking others -- getting any support for moving into politics or being licensed to work over vulnerable people. She needs support for dealing with her history and damage. Her mother may well need to address her own issues, too.

But in no way does any of this make her either ready or somehow deserving of power or responsibility. She needs help.

She definitely needs help. Our society tends to like to paint people as angels or monsters. She can be sick and need kindness, not necessarily for the reasons she claims to need them, but for other reasons.

Frankly it's kind of tragic that someone so intelligent has managed to ruin their life like this at the age of 25. It wouldn't surprise me if they were familial issues contributing as well. This would not have gotten this far if her mother had spoken up way earlier.

Yeah. I don't have any problem believing there are few (if any) healthy people in this story. That includes the Penn profs who have been supporting her, as much as the mother.

I don't think we need to demonize someone to acknowledge that they did not qualify for a position that they achieved by untruthful means. You don't even have to "prove" it was deliberate to acknowledge that. I do think some posters here elide the two -- as if saying she shouldn't have X means you are either demonizing her, or that you are saying she was evil. But I think they think eliding it makes their argument stronger, somehow.

Nope. Just not qualified for it, by the specific qualifications of entry.

Except she was. By Penn and Questbridge’s very definitions. There’s no disputing that.

Why was it that the Rhodes committee asked her to withdraw her application, again?

Technically they didn’t. It was Penn that asked her to withdraw. The Rhodes investigative subcommittee issued a report recommending that the scholarship be rescinded, but Mackenzie had an opportunity to respond and challenge the subcommittee’s finding before a final determination was made by the Rhodes Trust. According to reports, Mackenzie wanted to submit a response but was advised not to by her attorney after Penn’s general counsel threatened to refer the matter to federal prosecutors based on alleged misrepresentations in her financial aid application (although it does not appear there were any actual misrepresentations in her federal financial aid applications). Mackenzie reportedly decided to withdraw her application instead.

The bit about having to support her disabled sister and needing money for that was not part of a federal financial aid application?

It actually wasn't, it was supposedly written in the Penn Financial Aid Supplement she submitted, which is a private form created by Penn or students who may qualify for financial assistance beyond federal student aid. Also, OSC confirmed that Mackenzie had set up a 529 account for her sister to use for college that had approximately $6k in in at the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is buying this, you can stop spamming the forum. The rich spoiled layabout needs to get off Twitter and DCUM and go get a real job. Imagine the gall to pretend to be poor kid and you’ve never worked a day in your life.

Yes, because graduating with honors and supporting yourself through college isn't work?

Turns out that scared teenager writing in her journal was 100% right. People will often side with the abusers.

You are a broken record circling back to fake inflated grades. Nobody cares about a rich spoiled brat’s As and Bs at a ritzy day school or As and Bs in a soft major at Penn CAS. Or the soft master’s. No mention of standardized test scores because they are dire, which exposes her for the midwit leech she is.

WTF is wrong with you?

"Why do you care so much?" Again, the closed circle of response.

You are not allowed to question the story of Mackenzie Fierceton.

Who conveniently changed her last name in the run up to applying for the Rhodes. Totally normal and not at all deceptive behavior.

DP. She changed her name after her mother’s trial to try to make it harder for her mother to find her (since her mother had already been stalking her and harassing her at college). If she had changed her name before the trial, she would have had to disclose her new name to everyone involved, including her mother.

In other words Rhodes could google her and it would get new hits on her rich doctor
mom while she was lying to them about being a foster kid from a poor first gen family?

Wouldn’t they know her real/original name no matter what because of her HS information and undergrad transcripts would have had her real name?

DP. Yes, Rhodes would have had her original name from prior transcripts and other records, and could have googled her all they liked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please run that long post through some identification software and compare it to some of Mackenzie's previous writing?

Hey loser, you do it. This story reminds me of Monica Lewinsky. Essentially a kid held to a higher standard than the adults and institutions around her. And we know how well that story aged. It’s widely accepted now that Lewinsky was the victim of a higher coordinated bully campaign. Shameful. And that goes to those posting here relentlessly trying to deflect blame away from where it is deserved—her diabolical mother, her mother’s abusive boyfriend, the legal system, UPenn.

I'm the pp who said that I don't think Mackenzie deserves all the blame. She had a long psychiatric hospitalization. She definitely came from a dysfunctional family.
This doesn't excuse her from manipulating the system, but it doesn't mean that she was the victim in every possible way imaginable either.

The real truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

DP. Oh, agreed.

And I also don't want someone with that history -- and who is still doubling down and attacking others -- getting any support for moving into politics or being licensed to work over vulnerable people. She needs support for dealing with her history and damage. Her mother may well need to address her own issues, too.

But in no way does any of this make her either ready or somehow deserving of power or responsibility. She needs help.

She definitely needs help. Our society tends to like to paint people as angels or monsters. She can be sick and need kindness, not necessarily for the reasons she claims to need them, but for other reasons.

Frankly it's kind of tragic that someone so intelligent has managed to ruin their life like this at the age of 25. It wouldn't surprise me if they were familial issues contributing as well. This would not have gotten this far if her mother had spoken up way earlier.

Yeah. I don't have any problem believing there are few (if any) healthy people in this story. That includes the Penn profs who have been supporting her, as much as the mother.

I don't think we need to demonize someone to acknowledge that they did not qualify for a position that they achieved by untruthful means. You don't even have to "prove" it was deliberate to acknowledge that. I do think some posters here elide the two -- as if saying she shouldn't have X means you are either demonizing her, or that you are saying she was evil. But I think they think eliding it makes their argument stronger, somehow.

Nope. Just not qualified for it, by the specific qualifications of entry.

Except she was. By Penn and Questbridge’s very definitions. There’s no disputing that.

Why was it that the Rhodes committee asked her to withdraw her application, again?

Technically they didn’t. It was Penn that asked her to withdraw. The Rhodes investigative subcommittee issued a report recommending that the scholarship be rescinded, but Mackenzie had an opportunity to respond and challenge the subcommittee’s finding before a final determination was made by the Rhodes Trust. According to reports, Mackenzie wanted to submit a response but was advised not to by her attorney after Penn’s general counsel threatened to refer the matter to federal prosecutors based on alleged misrepresentations in her financial aid application (although it does not appear there were any actual misrepresentations in her federal financial aid applications). Mackenzie reportedly decided to withdraw her application instead.

The bit about having to support her disabled sister and needing money for that was not part of a federal financial aid application?

It actually wasn't, it was supposedly written in the Penn Financial Aid Supplement she submitted, which is a private form created by Penn or students who may qualify for financial assistance beyond federal student aid. Also, OSC confirmed that Mackenzie had set up a 529 account for her sister to use for college that had approximately $6k in in at the time.

Was that the $6000 she thought her biological father might have deposited? In the -- account she set up, which she needed money from the government for?

[Anonymous]

Yeah, sounds like this all needs to go through the discovery process in the court case. The details will all get sorted out as matters of verifiable fact.

I'm sure the court will be accused of bullying the poor child who filed the lawsuit, but what can you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:there really are some dark hearted, hateful people on this thread. imagine if your loved ones knew the innerworkings of your heart and the evil lurking in your mind.

It is not dark hearted or hateful to acknowledge that there is a vast gap in how Fierceton was treated and how she would have been treated had she been anyone other than a very attractive white woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please run that long post through some identification software and compare it to some of Mackenzie's previous writing?

Hey loser, you do it. This story reminds me of Monica Lewinsky. Essentially a kid held to a higher standard than the adults and institutions around her. And we know how well that story aged. It’s widely accepted now that Lewinsky was the victim of a higher coordinated bully campaign. Shameful. And that goes to those posting here relentlessly trying to deflect blame away from where it is deserved—her diabolical mother, her mother’s abusive boyfriend, the legal system, UPenn.

I'm the pp who said that I don't think Mackenzie deserves all the blame. She had a long psychiatric hospitalization. She definitely came from a dysfunctional family.
This doesn't excuse her from manipulating the system, but it doesn't mean that she was the victim in every possible way imaginable either.

The real truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

DP. Oh, agreed.

And I also don't want someone with that history -- and who is still doubling down and attacking others -- getting any support for moving into politics or being licensed to work over vulnerable people. She needs support for dealing with her history and damage. Her mother may well need to address her own issues, too.

But in no way does any of this make her either ready or somehow deserving of power or responsibility. She needs help.

She definitely needs help. Our society tends to like to paint people as angels or monsters. She can be sick and need kindness, not necessarily for the reasons she claims to need them, but for other reasons.

Frankly it's kind of tragic that someone so intelligent has managed to ruin their life like this at the age of 25. It wouldn't surprise me if they were familial issues contributing as well. This would not have gotten this far if her mother had spoken up way earlier.

Yeah. I don't have any problem believing there are few (if any) healthy people in this story. That includes the Penn profs who have been supporting her, as much as the mother.

I don't think we need to demonize someone to acknowledge that they did not qualify for a position that they achieved by untruthful means. You don't even have to "prove" it was deliberate to acknowledge that. I do think some posters here elide the two -- as if saying she shouldn't have X means you are either demonizing her, or that you are saying she was evil. But I think they think eliding it makes their argument stronger, somehow.

Nope. Just not qualified for it, by the specific qualifications of entry.

Except she was. By Penn and Questbridge’s very definitions. There’s no disputing that.

Why was it that the Rhodes committee asked her to withdraw her application, again?

Technically they didn’t. It was Penn that asked her to withdraw. The Rhodes investigative subcommittee issued a report recommending that the scholarship be rescinded, but Mackenzie had an opportunity to respond and challenge the subcommittee’s finding before a final determination was made by the Rhodes Trust. According to reports, Mackenzie wanted to submit a response but was advised not to by her attorney after Penn’s general counsel threatened to refer the matter to federal prosecutors based on alleged misrepresentations in her financial aid application (although it does not appear there were any actual misrepresentations in her federal financial aid applications). Mackenzie reportedly decided to withdraw her application instead.

The bit about having to support her disabled sister and needing money for that was not part of a federal financial aid application?

It actually wasn't, it was supposedly written in the Penn Financial Aid Supplement she submitted, which is a private form created by Penn or students who may qualify for financial assistance beyond federal student aid. Also, OSC confirmed that Mackenzie had set up a 529 account for her sister to use for college that had approximately $6k in in at the time.

Was that the $6000 she thought her biological father might have deposited? In the -- account she set up, which she needed money from the government for?

DP. PFAS isn’t for federal aid, it’s for private financial assistance in addition to federal aid.

[Anonymous]

Lot of folks in this thread really invested in proving a girl from a rich white family can't be abused, yikes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:there really are some dark hearted, hateful people on this thread. imagine if your loved ones knew the innerworkings of your heart and the evil lurking in your mind.

It is not dark hearted or hateful to acknowledge that there is a vast gap in how Fierceton was treated and how she would have been treated had she been anyone other than a very attractive white woman.

You get that her mother got a huge dose of white lady privilege in how the abuse allegations were investigated, right? If you’re going to doubt Fierceton’s story based on white female privilege, you have to do the same for her mother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Any mother who *laughs to investigators* when asked about her BF molesting her daughter has a screw loose. I cannot take the mom seriously at all after that. Then the BF denies it happened? Even though there’s contemporaneous evidence that it did? And he’s been reported to police *twice* previously by girlfriends? And yet the mom blew off her daughter’s concerns about him? This is a ducked up family.

Also, what was the bit about her mom calling police when the BF showed Mackenzie his gun? It was sort of dropped in there with no context.

(If I posted in one other place am I supposed to say I did? Although not in a chain of posts).

BTW I did see the NY article as providing more detail than before (incidentally, I did not read "broken bones", I did read "bruised ribs") about her seizure at Penn. When the story first broke I was suspicious of the idea that a seizure could continue for an hour without the person entering status epilepticus state, but they may have been administering valium and O2 (my niece has epilepsy, and at times she has had grand mal seizures in clusters). I do wonder how those stairs and the basement are sent up, because ambulance gurneys are capable of folding into a chair shape to handle stairway turns. A little surprised it took a long time for seizures to occur after her original fall down the stairs.

But most telling is her mother's role, which is bizarre. If I had been her and did not want to risk my status or professional position in the community, I also might have fought the legal battles as she did, but other than that I would keep my mouth shut. I might be estranged from my daughter but I wouldn't keep stirring the pot as she seems to have. She got her criminal charges dropped, she got her name removed from the child abuse registry, she could have let her daughter go on leading her life with a new name.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lot of folks in this thread really invested in proving a girl from a rich white family can't be abused, yikes.

Yes, it very much shows their own bigotry as to what kinds of people abuse their kids (i.e., poor and/or non-white).

[Anonymous]

She reminds me of rich friends in college who would swipe whatever they want on daddy’s Amex, drove new SUVs, private school lifers, and grew up in mansions. You could literally be at their parents’ mansion and they would claim with a straight face they’re middle class and their family struggled growing up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, sounds like this all needs to go through the discovery process in the court case. The details will all get sorted out as matters of verifiable fact.

I'm sure the court will be accused of bullying the poor child who filed the lawsuit, but what can you do.

She’s not a kid or child. She’s 25. lol