Another Black Eye for Penn

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She should not be demonized. She is a victim here, although I also believe she engaged in fraud. Victims can engage in fraud; it doesn’t take away from the abuse she suffered, and I believe she truly did suffer at least some abuse. The gum story seems ludicrous, but I also don’t believe the facts of the hospital stats are what she claims based on some inconsistencies.

But it does really bother me that if she were a young Black man or Latino man (or boy, since many of you infantilize her), she wouldn’t be getting fawning articles in major media or vociferous defenders or (admittedly creepy) professors going out of their way to help the kid. She is benefiting from systemic racism and specifically the treatment of pretty young white women. That aspect is really terrible, and I think fury about that is part of the anger people see directed to her.

Black or Latino man isn’t getting a “traumatizing” Zoom Q and A. They are escorted off campus in handcuffs.

[Anonymous]

there really are some dark hearted, hateful people on this thread. imagine if your loved ones knew the innerworkings of your heart and the evil lurking in your mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is buying this, you can stop spamming the forum. The rich spoiled layabout needs to get off Twitter and DCUM and go get a real job. Imagine the gall to pretend to be poor kid and you’ve never worked a day in your life.

Yes, because graduating with honors and supporting yourself through college isn't work?

Turns out that scared teenager writing in her journal was 100% right. People will often side with the abusers.

You are a broken record circling back to fake inflated grades. Nobody cares about a rich spoiled brat’s As and Bs at a ritzy day school or As and Bs in a soft major at Penn CAS. Or the soft master’s. No mention of standardized test scores because they are dire, which exposes her for the midwit leech she is.

WTF is wrong with you?

"Why do you care so much?" Again, the closed circle of response.

You are not allowed to question the story of Mackenzie Fierceton.

Who conveniently changed her last name in the run up to applying for the Rhodes. Totally normal and not at all deceptive behavior.

[Anonymous]

I hope she gets all the mental health support she clearly requires and that Penn is forced to pay for it all. And then some. And I wish her mother ill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please run that long post through some identification software and compare it to some of Mackenzie's previous writing?

Hey loser, you do it. This story reminds me of Monica Lewinsky. Essentially a kid held to a higher standard than the adults and institutions around her. And we know how well that story aged. It’s widely accepted now that Lewinsky was the victim of a higher coordinated bully campaign. Shameful. And that goes to those posting here relentlessly trying to deflect blame away from where it is deserved—her diabolical mother, her mother’s abusive boyfriend, the legal system, UPenn.

I'm the pp who said that I don't think Mackenzie deserves all the blame. She had a long psychiatric hospitalization. She definitely came from a dysfunctional family.
This doesn't excuse her from manipulating the system, but it doesn't mean that she was the victim in every possible way imaginable either.

The real truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

DP. Oh, agreed.

And I also don't want someone with that history -- and who is still doubling down and attacking others -- getting any support for moving into politics or being licensed to work over vulnerable people. She needs support for dealing with her history and damage. Her mother may well need to address her own issues, too.

But in no way does any of this make her either ready or somehow deserving of power or responsibility. She needs help.

She definitely needs help. Our society tends to like to paint people as angels or monsters. She can be sick and need kindness, not necessarily for the reasons she claims to need them, but for other reasons.

Frankly it's kind of tragic that someone so intelligent has managed to ruin their life like this at the age of 25. It wouldn't surprise me if they were familial issues contributing as well. This would not have gotten this far if her mother had spoken up way earlier.

Yeah. I don't have any problem believing there are few (if any) healthy people in this story. That includes the Penn profs who have been supporting her, as much as the mother.

I don't think we need to demonize someone to acknowledge that they did not qualify for a position that they achieved by untruthful means. You don't even have to "prove" it was deliberate to acknowledge that. I do think some posters here elide the two -- as if saying she shouldn't have X means you are either demonizing her, or that you are saying she was evil. But I think they think eliding it makes their argument stronger, somehow.

Nope. Just not qualified for it, by the specific qualifications of entry.

Except she was. By Penn and Questbridge’s very definitions. There’s no disputing that.

Why was it that the Rhodes committee asked her to withdraw her application, again?

Technically they didn’t. It was Penn that asked her to withdraw. The Rhodes investigative subcommittee issued a report recommending that the scholarship be rescinded, but Mackenzie had an opportunity to respond and challenge the subcommittee’s finding before a final determination was made by the Rhodes Trust. According to reports, Mackenzie wanted to submit a response but was advised not to by her attorney after Penn’s general counsel threatened to refer the matter to federal prosecutors based on alleged misrepresentations in her financial aid application (although it does not appear there were any actual misrepresentations in her federal financial aid applications). Mackenzie reportedly decided to withdraw her application instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is buying this, you can stop spamming the forum. The rich spoiled layabout needs to get off Twitter and DCUM and go get a real job. Imagine the gall to pretend to be poor kid and you’ve never worked a day in your life.

Yes, because graduating with honors and supporting yourself through college isn't work?

Turns out that scared teenager writing in her journal was 100% right. People will often side with the abusers.

You are a broken record circling back to fake inflated grades. Nobody cares about a rich spoiled brat’s As and Bs at a ritzy day school or As and Bs in a soft major at Penn CAS. Or the soft master’s. No mention of standardized test scores because they are dire, which exposes her for the midwit leech she is.

Your vitriol spewed at an abuse survivor suggests you have ulterior motives in being so vehement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is buying this, you can stop spamming the forum. The rich spoiled layabout needs to get off Twitter and DCUM and go get a real job. Imagine the gall to pretend to be poor kid and you’ve never worked a day in your life.

Yes, because graduating with honors and supporting yourself through college isn't work?

Turns out that scared teenager writing in her journal was 100% right. People will often side with the abusers.

You are a broken record circling back to fake inflated grades. Nobody cares about a rich spoiled brat’s As and Bs at a ritzy day school or As and Bs in a soft major at Penn CAS. Or the soft master’s. No mention of standardized test scores because they are dire, which exposes her for the midwit leech she is.

WTF is wrong with you?

Why is it so hard to reveal ACT/SAT or GRE/GMAT scores? She’s an open book right.

Strange request. Tucker is that you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is buying this, you can stop spamming the forum. The rich spoiled layabout needs to get off Twitter and DCUM and go get a real job. Imagine the gall to pretend to be poor kid and you’ve never worked a day in your life.

Yes, because graduating with honors and supporting yourself through college isn't work?

Turns out that scared teenager writing in her journal was 100% right. People will often side with the abusers.

You are a broken record circling back to fake inflated grades. Nobody cares about a rich spoiled brat’s As and Bs at a ritzy day school or As and Bs in a soft major at Penn CAS. Or the soft master’s. No mention of standardized test scores because they are dire, which exposes her for the midwit leech she is.

WTF is wrong with you?

"Why do you care so much?" Again, the closed circle of response.

You are not allowed to question the story of Mackenzie Fierceton.

Who conveniently changed her last name in the run up to applying for the Rhodes. Totally normal and not at all deceptive behavior.

DP. She changed her name after her mother’s trial to try to make it harder for her mother to find her (since her mother had already been stalking her and harassing her at college). If she had changed her name before the trial, she would have had to disclose her new name to everyone involved, including her mother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is buying this, you can stop spamming the forum. The rich spoiled layabout needs to get off Twitter and DCUM and go get a real job. Imagine the gall to pretend to be poor kid and you’ve never worked a day in your life.

Yes, because graduating with honors and supporting yourself through college isn't work?

Turns out that scared teenager writing in her journal was 100% right. People will often side with the abusers.

You are a broken record circling back to fake inflated grades. Nobody cares about a rich spoiled brat’s As and Bs at a ritzy day school or As and Bs in a soft major at Penn CAS. Or the soft master’s. No mention of standardized test scores because they are dire, which exposes her for the midwit leech she is.

WTF is wrong with you?

"Why do you care so much?" Again, the closed circle of response.

You are not allowed to question the story of Mackenzie Fierceton.

No, the question was about you. WTF is wrong with you?

[Anonymous]

I just started the article. Why on earth would the CPS worker talk to the mom before talking to Mackenzie? Why would she not interview the girl at school first? This is not how it works for most people coming to the attention of CPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please run that long post through some identification software and compare it to some of Mackenzie's previous writing?

Hey loser, you do it. This story reminds me of Monica Lewinsky. Essentially a kid held to a higher standard than the adults and institutions around her. And we know how well that story aged. It’s widely accepted now that Lewinsky was the victim of a higher coordinated bully campaign. Shameful. And that goes to those posting here relentlessly trying to deflect blame away from where it is deserved—her diabolical mother, her mother’s abusive boyfriend, the legal system, UPenn.

I'm the pp who said that I don't think Mackenzie deserves all the blame. She had a long psychiatric hospitalization. She definitely came from a dysfunctional family.
This doesn't excuse her from manipulating the system, but it doesn't mean that she was the victim in every possible way imaginable either.

The real truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

DP. Oh, agreed.

And I also don't want someone with that history -- and who is still doubling down and attacking others -- getting any support for moving into politics or being licensed to work over vulnerable people. She needs support for dealing with her history and damage. Her mother may well need to address her own issues, too.

But in no way does any of this make her either ready or somehow deserving of power or responsibility. She needs help.

She definitely needs help. Our society tends to like to paint people as angels or monsters. She can be sick and need kindness, not necessarily for the reasons she claims to need them, but for other reasons.

Frankly it's kind of tragic that someone so intelligent has managed to ruin their life like this at the age of 25. It wouldn't surprise me if they were familial issues contributing as well. This would not have gotten this far if her mother had spoken up way earlier.

Yeah. I don't have any problem believing there are few (if any) healthy people in this story. That includes the Penn profs who have been supporting her, as much as the mother.

I don't think we need to demonize someone to acknowledge that they did not qualify for a position that they achieved by untruthful means. You don't even have to "prove" it was deliberate to acknowledge that. I do think some posters here elide the two -- as if saying she shouldn't have X means you are either demonizing her, or that you are saying she was evil. But I think they think eliding it makes their argument stronger, somehow.

Nope. Just not qualified for it, by the specific qualifications of entry.

Except she was. By Penn and Questbridge’s very definitions. There’s no disputing that.

Why was it that the Rhodes committee asked her to withdraw her application, again?

Technically they didn’t. It was Penn that asked her to withdraw. The Rhodes investigative subcommittee issued a report recommending that the scholarship be rescinded, but Mackenzie had an opportunity to respond and challenge the subcommittee’s finding before a final determination was made by the Rhodes Trust. According to reports, Mackenzie wanted to submit a response but was advised not to by her attorney after Penn’s general counsel threatened to refer the matter to federal prosecutors based on alleged misrepresentations in her financial aid application (although it does not appear there were any actual misrepresentations in her federal financial aid applications). Mackenzie reportedly decided to withdraw her application instead.

The bit about having to support her disabled sister and needing money for that was not part of a federal financial aid application?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is buying this, you can stop spamming the forum. The rich spoiled layabout needs to get off Twitter and DCUM and go get a real job. Imagine the gall to pretend to be poor kid and you’ve never worked a day in your life.

Yes, because graduating with honors and supporting yourself through college isn't work?

Turns out that scared teenager writing in her journal was 100% right. People will often side with the abusers.

You are a broken record circling back to fake inflated grades. Nobody cares about a rich spoiled brat’s As and Bs at a ritzy day school or As and Bs in a soft major at Penn CAS. Or the soft master’s. No mention of standardized test scores because they are dire, which exposes her for the midwit leech she is.

WTF is wrong with you?

"Why do you care so much?" Again, the closed circle of response.

You are not allowed to question the story of Mackenzie Fierceton.

No, the question was about you. WTF is wrong with you?

Not me, DP. But given your response is to double-down on the same, I guess it does not matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is buying this, you can stop spamming the forum. The rich spoiled layabout needs to get off Twitter and DCUM and go get a real job. Imagine the gall to pretend to be poor kid and you’ve never worked a day in your life.

Yes, because graduating with honors and supporting yourself through college isn't work?

Turns out that scared teenager writing in her journal was 100% right. People will often side with the abusers.

You are a broken record circling back to fake inflated grades. Nobody cares about a rich spoiled brat’s As and Bs at a ritzy day school or As and Bs in a soft major at Penn CAS. Or the soft master’s. No mention of standardized test scores because they are dire, which exposes her for the midwit leech she is.

WTF is wrong with you?

"Why do you care so much?" Again, the closed circle of response.

You are not allowed to question the story of Mackenzie Fierceton.

Who conveniently changed her last name in the run up to applying for the Rhodes. Totally normal and not at all deceptive behavior.

DP. She changed her name after her mother’s trial to try to make it harder for her mother to find her (since her mother had already been stalking her and harassing her at college). If she had changed her name before the trial, she would have had to disclose her new name to everyone involved, including her mother.

Really does sound like a guilty as sin felon locked up in prison spending years cooking up laughable excuses and alibis. Nobody believes this nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Is it true she got a new BMW or some such for her first car?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please run that long post through some identification software and compare it to some of Mackenzie's previous writing?

Hey loser, you do it. This story reminds me of Monica Lewinsky. Essentially a kid held to a higher standard than the adults and institutions around her. And we know how well that story aged. It’s widely accepted now that Lewinsky was the victim of a higher coordinated bully campaign. Shameful. And that goes to those posting here relentlessly trying to deflect blame away from where it is deserved—her diabolical mother, her mother’s abusive boyfriend, the legal system, UPenn.

I'm the pp who said that I don't think Mackenzie deserves all the blame. She had a long psychiatric hospitalization. She definitely came from a dysfunctional family.
This doesn't excuse her from manipulating the system, but it doesn't mean that she was the victim in every possible way imaginable either.

The real truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

DP. Oh, agreed.

And I also don't want someone with that history -- and who is still doubling down and attacking others -- getting any support for moving into politics or being licensed to work over vulnerable people. She needs support for dealing with her history and damage. Her mother may well need to address her own issues, too.

But in no way does any of this make her either ready or somehow deserving of power or responsibility. She needs help.

She definitely needs help. Our society tends to like to paint people as angels or monsters. She can be sick and need kindness, not necessarily for the reasons she claims to need them, but for other reasons.

Frankly it's kind of tragic that someone so intelligent has managed to ruin their life like this at the age of 25. It wouldn't surprise me if they were familial issues contributing as well. This would not have gotten this far if her mother had spoken up way earlier.

Yeah. I don't have any problem believing there are few (if any) healthy people in this story. That includes the Penn profs who have been supporting her, as much as the mother.

I don't think we need to demonize someone to acknowledge that they did not qualify for a position that they achieved by untruthful means. You don't even have to "prove" it was deliberate to acknowledge that. I do think some posters here elide the two -- as if saying she shouldn't have X means you are either demonizing her, or that you are saying she was evil. But I think they think eliding it makes their argument stronger, somehow.

Nope. Just not qualified for it, by the specific qualifications of entry.

Except she was. By Penn and Questbridge’s very definitions. There’s no disputing that.

Why was it that the Rhodes committee asked her to withdraw her application, again?

Technically they didn’t. It was Penn that asked her to withdraw. The Rhodes investigative subcommittee issued a report recommending that the scholarship be rescinded, but Mackenzie had an opportunity to respond and challenge the subcommittee’s finding before a final determination was made by the Rhodes Trust. According to reports, Mackenzie wanted to submit a response but was advised not to by her attorney after Penn’s general counsel threatened to refer the matter to federal prosecutors based on alleged misrepresentations in her financial aid application (although it does not appear there were any actual misrepresentations in her federal financial aid applications). Mackenzie reportedly decided to withdraw her application instead.

That's right. This is the part of the New Yorker article that I was remembering:

In April, 2021, an investigative subcommittee for the Rhodes Trust issued a report recommending that Mackenzie’s scholarship be rescinded. The report acknowledged, “This is a tragic story,” but said that truthfulness “cannot be overridden by appeal to trauma.” It referred to childhood pictures—enclosed in a twenty-two-page letter written to the Rhodes Trust, in mid-December, by an anonymous sender who displayed a great deal of familiarity with Mackenzie’s childhood—that showed Mackenzie engaging in “typical upper middle-class childhood activities,” like horseback riding and going to the beach. Though the Trust said that Mackenzie’s abuse allegations were beyond the scope of its investigation, it repeated an argument originally advanced by Morrison’s lawyer at trial: that there were discrepancies between Mackenzie’s medical records and an essay she’d written to get into college—evidence, it said, of a broader pattern of misrepresentation.

And also,

If trauma creates a kind of narrative void, Mackenzie seemed to respond by leaning into a narrative that made her life feel more coherent, fitting into boxes that people want to reward. Perhaps her access to privilege helped her understand, in a way that other disadvantaged students might not, the ways that élite institutions valorize certain kinds of identities. There is currency to a story about a person who comes from nothing and thrives in a prestigious setting. These stories attract attention, in part because they offer comfort that, at least on occasion, such things happen.