Is it time to have the difficult conversation about masks and MCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know a single person who got sick from covid. Not a big deal even pre vaccine

C'mon. Up your troll game.

I absolutely believe that poster. I indirectly (e.g., friend of a friend) know of people that have been seriously ill, but none of my friends/family/coworkers with COVID had anything more than mild cold symptoms. Most were entirely asymptomatic.

I don't know a lot of elderly people, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know a single person who got sick from covid. Not a big deal even pre vaccine

C'mon. Up your troll game.

I absolutely believe that poster. I indirectly (e.g., friend of a friend) know of people that have been seriously ill, but none of my friends/family/coworkers with COVID had anything more than mild cold symptoms. Most were entirely asymptomatic.

I don't know a lot of elderly people, though.

I know some people overseas who died of COVID. I don’t know any in the USA. I had a few friends who got COVID but mild cases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know a single person who got sick from covid. Not a big deal even pre vaccine

C'mon. Up your troll game.

I absolutely believe that poster. I indirectly (e.g., friend of a friend) know of people that have been seriously ill, but none of my friends/family/coworkers with COVID had anything more than mild cold symptoms. Most were entirely asymptomatic.

I don't know a lot of elderly people, though.

THREE of my husband’s friends died from Covid. Three. They ranged in age from 48-55. Two were hospitalized for many weeks, both at Hopkins. My colleague’s husband passed away as well. He was older (60s) and had underlying health issues. Do not downplay what this virus has done because you don’t directly know someone who has lost their life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know a single person who got sick from covid. Not a big deal even pre vaccine

C'mon. Up your troll game.

I absolutely believe that poster. I indirectly (e.g., friend of a friend) know of people that have been seriously ill, but none of my friends/family/coworkers with COVID had anything more than mild cold symptoms. Most were entirely asymptomatic.

I don't know a lot of elderly people, though.

THREE of my husband’s friends died from Covid. Three. They ranged in age from 48-55. Two were hospitalized for many weeks, both at Hopkins. My colleague’s husband passed away as well. He was older (60s) and had underlying health issues. Do not downplay what this virus has done because you don’t directly know someone who has lost their life.

Only 1.64% of those infected, passed away. Your husband is either unlucky or has many many friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know a single person who got sick from covid. Not a big deal even pre vaccine

C'mon. Up your troll game.

I absolutely believe that poster. I indirectly (e.g., friend of a friend) know of people that have been seriously ill, but none of my friends/family/coworkers with COVID had anything more than mild cold symptoms. Most were entirely asymptomatic.

I don't know a lot of elderly people, though.

THREE of my husband’s friends died from Covid. Three. They ranged in age from 48-55. Two were hospitalized for many weeks, both at Hopkins. My colleague’s husband passed away as well. He was older (60s) and had underlying health issues. Do not downplay what this virus has done because you don’t directly know someone who has lost their life.

Only 1.64% of those infected, passed away. Your husband is either unlucky or has many many friends.

750K adults in the US died of covid. Millions more around the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The rare breakthrough cases can be just as serious - but generally only for the elderly and a very small handful of other immunocompromised people.

Yep. Even among old people and people with health conditions, the vaccine is very effective at reducing the chance of hospitalization or death from covid. It's just less effective among old people/people with health conditions than among younger people/people without health conditions. But that's not surprising, because old people/people with health conditions are more vulnerable to ANY health issue. Even if you're old/ill, your chances are still far better if you're vaccinated than if you're unvaccinated.

Especially if you get your booster.

There are no long term studies regarding this so you cannot say for sure how safe it is and vaccinated positive cases aren't that rare anymore.

CDC recommends masking indoors. CDC recommends masking in schools. Everyone screams to follow science. Science recommends masking.

Breakthrough infections are even more reason to get vaccinated and boosted. COVID isn't going away. That should be clear by now- even to you.

It was never going to go away as most people don't take COVID seriously. You can get boosted. No way I am. I did my part. I did my two and I'm done.

It doesn't matter to me whether you get more shots. Early on, vaccines were important tools to slow the spread. Now that a large portion of the population is vaccinated, the vaccines are mostly to protect the recipient.

So go right ahead and skip the boosters. But don't expect to anyone to feel sorry for you when you either get sick from COVID or when you refuse to re-enter society after everyone else moves on.

I cannot renter as I cannot risk Covid from you. I cannot take a booster as I reacted very poorly and had issues for months. You are so focused on your wants you stopped even understanding it’s not as simple for others as it is for you. Must be nice to have your health. Must be nice for your kids to have both parents alive.

Well, delivery drivers for you I guess. It's endemic at this point. We're close to as good as it gets. Hopefully you're not holding back your kids from living their lives, though...

We don't do delivery as its too expensive. We aren't as close to good as it gets. We'd be very close if selfish and entitled people like you would be more cautious. You'd have a lot to learn from my kids.

Hopefully, how to pull the escape cord on their 18th birthday.

That's fine. Plenty of ways to spend their college funds on us if they choose to escape at 18. But, unlike your kids who you need to get out of the house, ours actually enjoy spending time with us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The rare breakthrough cases can be just as serious - but generally only for the elderly and a very small handful of other immunocompromised people.

Yep. Even among old people and people with health conditions, the vaccine is very effective at reducing the chance of hospitalization or death from covid. It's just less effective among old people/people with health conditions than among younger people/people without health conditions. But that's not surprising, because old people/people with health conditions are more vulnerable to ANY health issue. Even if you're old/ill, your chances are still far better if you're vaccinated than if you're unvaccinated.

Especially if you get your booster.

There are no long term studies regarding this so you cannot say for sure how safe it is and vaccinated positive cases aren't that rare anymore.

CDC recommends masking indoors. CDC recommends masking in schools. Everyone screams to follow science. Science recommends masking.

Breakthrough infections are even more reason to get vaccinated and boosted. COVID isn't going away. That should be clear by now- even to you.

It was never going to go away as most people don't take COVID seriously. You can get boosted. No way I am. I did my part. I did my two and I'm done.

It doesn't matter to me whether you get more shots. Early on, vaccines were important tools to slow the spread. Now that a large portion of the population is vaccinated, the vaccines are mostly to protect the recipient.

So go right ahead and skip the boosters. But don't expect to anyone to feel sorry for you when you either get sick from COVID or when you refuse to re-enter society after everyone else moves on.

I cannot renter as I cannot risk Covid from you. I cannot take a booster as I reacted very poorly and had issues for months. You are so focused on your wants you stopped even understanding it’s not as simple for others as it is for you. Must be nice to have your health. Must be nice for your kids to have both parents alive.

Well, delivery drivers for you I guess. It's endemic at this point. We're close to as good as it gets. Hopefully you're not holding back your kids from living their lives, though...

We don't do delivery as its too expensive. We aren't as close to good as it gets. We'd be very close if selfish and entitled people like you would be more cautious. You'd have a lot to learn from my kids.

We're very close to being as good as it gets.

Reported case numbers will drop, as more people gain immunity through infection or vaccination/boosters. More significantly, we'll see less testing, as vaccinated individuals aren't going to bother with testing for cold-like symptoms. Similarly, schools will end survellience testing to a large degree soon after kids are vaccinated. Hospitalizations will drop too, as people gain protective immunity or die trying.

But COVID will still be out there, mostly harmlessly infected people who already have protective immunity. We're at that point now for people that choose to get vaccinated.

But COVID will be just as dangerous a year from now to antivaxxers and anyone that stayed in their basement to avoid infection.

MCPS has barely done any testing. MCPS has done no precautions. People who don't test and stay home sick are irresponsible.

Ranting about antivaxxers is silly and a pathetic talking point as the majority of adults in MoCo are vaccinated. So you need to come up with a better excuse of why our numbers look like they do when we are talking about MCPS and MoCo.

It is not mostly harmless. Vaccinated people are getting sick and dying.

These vaccines don't necessarily stop covid. They help reduce the spread but they don't stop covid. They also lesson symptoms for most, not all. But they don't fully stop it. You are relying way to much on being vaccinated and you are harming our community. It is not dangerous in MoCo because of those not vaccinated as those not vaccinated are kids who only recently became eligible or are under 5 and not eligible. It is dangerous because of covid deniers like you who refuse to take any precautions, test or keep your kids home when they are sick as you are crappy entitled parents who never should have been parents in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know a single person who got sick from covid. Not a big deal even pre vaccine

C'mon. Up your troll game.

I absolutely believe that poster. I indirectly (e.g., friend of a friend) know of people that have been seriously ill, but none of my friends/family/coworkers with COVID had anything more than mild cold symptoms. Most were entirely asymptomatic.

I don't know a lot of elderly people, though.

THREE of my husband’s friends died from Covid. Three. They ranged in age from 48-55. Two were hospitalized for many weeks, both at Hopkins. My colleague’s husband passed away as well. He was older (60s) and had underlying health issues. Do not downplay what this virus has done because you don’t directly know someone who has lost their life.

Only 1.64% of those infected, passed away. Your husband is either unlucky or has many many friends.

750K adults in the US died of covid. Millions more around the world.

754 k out of 46 million infections. That’s a rate of 1.64%. Statistically speaking it is unlikely to know so many people who passed away fromCOVId.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know a single person who got sick from covid. Not a big deal even pre vaccine

C'mon. Up your troll game.

I absolutely believe that poster. I indirectly (e.g., friend of a friend) know of people that have been seriously ill, but none of my friends/family/coworkers with COVID had anything more than mild cold symptoms. Most were entirely asymptomatic.

I don't know a lot of elderly people, though.

THREE of my husband’s friends died from Covid. Three. They ranged in age from 48-55. Two were hospitalized for many weeks, both at Hopkins. My colleague’s husband passed away as well. He was older (60s) and had underlying health issues. Do not downplay what this virus has done because you don’t directly know someone who has lost their life.

Only 1.64% of those infected, passed away. Your husband is either unlucky or has many many friends.

He does have many friends. Two of the three were friends for many years. The third he met when one of our kids played on the same sports team with one of his kids (this man he only knew for about 7 years). Yes, he knew all three of these men personally. Why in the hell would I make up such a thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know a single person who got sick from covid. Not a big deal even pre vaccine

C'mon. Up your troll game.

I absolutely believe that poster. I indirectly (e.g., friend of a friend) know of people that have been seriously ill, but none of my friends/family/coworkers with COVID had anything more than mild cold symptoms. Most were entirely asymptomatic.

I don't know a lot of elderly people, though.

THREE of my husband’s friends died from Covid. Three. They ranged in age from 48-55. Two were hospitalized for many weeks, both at Hopkins. My colleague’s husband passed away as well. He was older (60s) and had underlying health issues. Do not downplay what this virus has done because you don’t directly know someone who has lost their life.

I'm not oblivious to the damage COVID has done, particularly to old and unhealthy individuals. But it's not reasonable to expect kids and young adults to continue to bear the brunt of mitigations primarily to help old people. It's time for old and sick people to protect themselves and let everyone else get on with their lives. It's not particularly unusual for people to die of various health conditions in their 50s and 60s.

As health care improves, we seem to have more and more people trying to ignore our inherent mortality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The rare breakthrough cases can be just as serious - but generally only for the elderly and a very small handful of other immunocompromised people.

Yep. Even among old people and people with health conditions, the vaccine is very effective at reducing the chance of hospitalization or death from covid. It's just less effective among old people/people with health conditions than among younger people/people without health conditions. But that's not surprising, because old people/people with health conditions are more vulnerable to ANY health issue. Even if you're old/ill, your chances are still far better if you're vaccinated than if you're unvaccinated.

Especially if you get your booster.

There are no long term studies regarding this so you cannot say for sure how safe it is and vaccinated positive cases aren't that rare anymore.

CDC recommends masking indoors. CDC recommends masking in schools. Everyone screams to follow science. Science recommends masking.

Breakthrough infections are even more reason to get vaccinated and boosted. COVID isn't going away. That should be clear by now- even to you.

It was never going to go away as most people don't take COVID seriously. You can get boosted. No way I am. I did my part. I did my two and I'm done.

It doesn't matter to me whether you get more shots. Early on, vaccines were important tools to slow the spread. Now that a large portion of the population is vaccinated, the vaccines are mostly to protect the recipient.

So go right ahead and skip the boosters. But don't expect to anyone to feel sorry for you when you either get sick from COVID or when you refuse to re-enter society after everyone else moves on.

I cannot renter as I cannot risk Covid from you. I cannot take a booster as I reacted very poorly and had issues for months. You are so focused on your wants you stopped even understanding it’s not as simple for others as it is for you. Must be nice to have your health. Must be nice for your kids to have both parents alive.

Well, delivery drivers for you I guess. It's endemic at this point. We're close to as good as it gets. Hopefully you're not holding back your kids from living their lives, though...

We don't do delivery as its too expensive. We aren't as close to good as it gets. We'd be very close if selfish and entitled people like you would be more cautious. You'd have a lot to learn from my kids.

We're very close to being as good as it gets.

Reported case numbers will drop, as more people gain immunity through infection or vaccination/boosters. More significantly, we'll see less testing, as vaccinated individuals aren't going to bother with testing for cold-like symptoms. Similarly, schools will end survellience testing to a large degree soon after kids are vaccinated. Hospitalizations will drop too, as people gain protective immunity or die trying.

But COVID will still be out there, mostly harmlessly infected people who already have protective immunity. We're at that point now for people that choose to get vaccinated.

But COVID will be just as dangerous a year from now to antivaxxers and anyone that stayed in their basement to avoid infection.

MCPS has barely done any testing. MCPS has done no precautions. People who don't test and stay home sick are irresponsible.

Ranting about antivaxxers is silly and a pathetic talking point as the majority of adults in MoCo are vaccinated. So you need to come up with a better excuse of why our numbers look like they do when we are talking about MCPS and MoCo.

It is not mostly harmless. Vaccinated people are getting sick and dying.

These vaccines don't necessarily stop covid. They help reduce the spread but they don't stop covid. They also lesson symptoms for most, not all. But they don't fully stop it. You are relying way to much on being vaccinated and you are harming our community. It is not dangerous in MoCo because of those not vaccinated as those not vaccinated are kids who only recently became eligible or are under 5 and not eligible. It is dangerous because of covid deniers like you who refuse to take any precautions, test or keep your kids home when they are sick as you are crappy entitled parents who never should have been parents in the first place.

Public health officials fed into unrealistic expectations regarding herd immunity. It was always clear COVID would become endemic, and that we'd be primarily relying on the vaccine to protect individuals, rather than stopping COVID entirely. So of course you're right- the vaccine doesn't stop spread. Nothing will. But that only makes the vaccine and boosters **more** important. In spite of what people like you might want, we're not going to keep masking, distancing, and other COVID restrictions forever. Want to improve your own chances? Get one of the vaccines and the boosters when recommended. If one vaccine doesn't work for you, get a different one the next time around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The rare breakthrough cases can be just as serious - but generally only for the elderly and a very small handful of other immunocompromised people.

Yep. Even among old people and people with health conditions, the vaccine is very effective at reducing the chance of hospitalization or death from covid. It's just less effective among old people/people with health conditions than among younger people/people without health conditions. But that's not surprising, because old people/people with health conditions are more vulnerable to ANY health issue. Even if you're old/ill, your chances are still far better if you're vaccinated than if you're unvaccinated.

Especially if you get your booster.

There are no long term studies regarding this so you cannot say for sure how safe it is and vaccinated positive cases aren't that rare anymore.

CDC recommends masking indoors. CDC recommends masking in schools. Everyone screams to follow science. Science recommends masking.

Breakthrough infections are even more reason to get vaccinated and boosted. COVID isn't going away. That should be clear by now- even to you.

It was never going to go away as most people don't take COVID seriously. You can get boosted. No way I am. I did my part. I did my two and I'm done.

It doesn't matter to me whether you get more shots. Early on, vaccines were important tools to slow the spread. Now that a large portion of the population is vaccinated, the vaccines are mostly to protect the recipient.

So go right ahead and skip the boosters. But don't expect to anyone to feel sorry for you when you either get sick from COVID or when you refuse to re-enter society after everyone else moves on.

I cannot renter as I cannot risk Covid from you. I cannot take a booster as I reacted very poorly and had issues for months. You are so focused on your wants you stopped even understanding it’s not as simple for others as it is for you. Must be nice to have your health. Must be nice for your kids to have both parents alive.

Well, delivery drivers for you I guess. It's endemic at this point. We're close to as good as it gets. Hopefully you're not holding back your kids from living their lives, though...

We don't do delivery as its too expensive. We aren't as close to good as it gets. We'd be very close if selfish and entitled people like you would be more cautious. You'd have a lot to learn from my kids.

We're very close to being as good as it gets.

Reported case numbers will drop, as more people gain immunity through infection or vaccination/boosters. More significantly, we'll see less testing, as vaccinated individuals aren't going to bother with testing for cold-like symptoms. Similarly, schools will end survellience testing to a large degree soon after kids are vaccinated. Hospitalizations will drop too, as people gain protective immunity or die trying.

But COVID will still be out there, mostly harmlessly infected people who already have protective immunity. We're at that point now for people that choose to get vaccinated.

But COVID will be just as dangerous a year from now to antivaxxers and anyone that stayed in their basement to avoid infection.

MCPS has barely done any testing. MCPS has done no precautions. People who don't test and stay home sick are irresponsible.

Ranting about antivaxxers is silly and a pathetic talking point as the majority of adults in MoCo are vaccinated. So you need to come up with a better excuse of why our numbers look like they do when we are talking about MCPS and MoCo.

It is not mostly harmless. Vaccinated people are getting sick and dying.

These vaccines don't necessarily stop covid. They help reduce the spread but they don't stop covid. They also lesson symptoms for most, not all. But they don't fully stop it. You are relying way to much on being vaccinated and you are harming our community. It is not dangerous in MoCo because of those not vaccinated as those not vaccinated are kids who only recently became eligible or are under 5 and not eligible. It is dangerous because of covid deniers like you who refuse to take any precautions, test or keep your kids home when they are sick as you are crappy entitled parents who never should have been parents in the first place.

The numbers are great in MoCo and MCPS. If you don't think so, I'm not sure that you have a role in public society any more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The rare breakthrough cases can be just as serious - but generally only for the elderly and a very small handful of other immunocompromised people.

Yep. Even among old people and people with health conditions, the vaccine is very effective at reducing the chance of hospitalization or death from covid. It's just less effective among old people/people with health conditions than among younger people/people without health conditions. But that's not surprising, because old people/people with health conditions are more vulnerable to ANY health issue. Even if you're old/ill, your chances are still far better if you're vaccinated than if you're unvaccinated.

Especially if you get your booster.

There are no long term studies regarding this so you cannot say for sure how safe it is and vaccinated positive cases aren't that rare anymore.

CDC recommends masking indoors. CDC recommends masking in schools. Everyone screams to follow science. Science recommends masking.

Breakthrough infections are even more reason to get vaccinated and boosted. COVID isn't going away. That should be clear by now- even to you.

It was never going to go away as most people don't take COVID seriously. You can get boosted. No way I am. I did my part. I did my two and I'm done.

It doesn't matter to me whether you get more shots. Early on, vaccines were important tools to slow the spread. Now that a large portion of the population is vaccinated, the vaccines are mostly to protect the recipient.

So go right ahead and skip the boosters. But don't expect to anyone to feel sorry for you when you either get sick from COVID or when you refuse to re-enter society after everyone else moves on.

I cannot renter as I cannot risk Covid from you. I cannot take a booster as I reacted very poorly and had issues for months. You are so focused on your wants you stopped even understanding it’s not as simple for others as it is for you. Must be nice to have your health. Must be nice for your kids to have both parents alive.

Well, delivery drivers for you I guess. It's endemic at this point. We're close to as good as it gets. Hopefully you're not holding back your kids from living their lives, though...

We don't do delivery as its too expensive. We aren't as close to good as it gets. We'd be very close if selfish and entitled people like you would be more cautious. You'd have a lot to learn from my kids.

We're very close to being as good as it gets.

Reported case numbers will drop, as more people gain immunity through infection or vaccination/boosters. More significantly, we'll see less testing, as vaccinated individuals aren't going to bother with testing for cold-like symptoms. Similarly, schools will end survellience testing to a large degree soon after kids are vaccinated. Hospitalizations will drop too, as people gain protective immunity or die trying.

But COVID will still be out there, mostly harmlessly infected people who already have protective immunity. We're at that point now for people that choose to get vaccinated.

But COVID will be just as dangerous a year from now to antivaxxers and anyone that stayed in their basement to avoid infection.

MCPS has barely done any testing. MCPS has done no precautions. People who don't test and stay home sick are irresponsible.

Ranting about antivaxxers is silly and a pathetic talking point as the majority of adults in MoCo are vaccinated. So you need to come up with a better excuse of why our numbers look like they do when we are talking about MCPS and MoCo.

It is not mostly harmless. Vaccinated people are getting sick and dying.

These vaccines don't necessarily stop covid. They help reduce the spread but they don't stop covid. They also lesson symptoms for most, not all. But they don't fully stop it. You are relying way to much on being vaccinated and you are harming our community. It is not dangerous in MoCo because of those not vaccinated as those not vaccinated are kids who only recently became eligible or are under 5 and not eligible. It is dangerous because of covid deniers like you who refuse to take any precautions, test or keep your kids home when they are sick as you are crappy entitled parents who never should have been parents in the first place.

The numbers are great in MoCo and MCPS. If you don't think so, I'm not sure that you have a role in public society any more.

I don't think she's interested in one- she's just happy to complain from her basement.

The sad thing is her kids are stuck with her. Remember the movie Blast from the Past with Brendan Fraser re-entering society after being stuck in a bomb shelter with his crazy parents? It's going to be like that, except I doubt it will work out well for them. Probably more like the Bates family.

[Anonymous]

So European countries are moving to a model where testing is going to be reserved for unvaccinated and healthcare workers. They (N Europe) suspended Moderna for under 30s and have no plans to vaccinate children. Is entire Europe COVID deniers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know a single person who got sick from covid. Not a big deal even pre vaccine

C'mon. Up your troll game.

I absolutely believe that poster. I indirectly (e.g., friend of a friend) know of people that have been seriously ill, but none of my friends/family/coworkers with COVID had anything more than mild cold symptoms. Most were entirely asymptomatic.

I don't know a lot of elderly people, though.

I think you must just not know a lot of people, period?