1st grade is a bad as we suspected

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But what’s done is done and being mad won’t help anything. Everyone - schools, teachers, and parents - all need to be working to get the behind kids caught up and/or have them repeat a grade if necessary. The situation will not right itself on its own.

The #1 thing that needs to be done is to grit our teeth and say no to ICU admissions of 75+ year olds with 2.6 preexisting medical conditions instead of shutting down schools again. And it will come down to that, look at cases in highly vaccinated UK and Israel. We did not vaccinate our way out of the pandemic. We cannot let a couple floors in the hospital shut down society again. And it is not just education, it is also mental health, obesity and people's livelihoods on the line.

I was saying this in April 2020. This is the only answer.

- signed, an actual expert in rationing healthcare.

While I agree with all of the above I don't see how they corrects the educational problem we already have. Rationing care is not going to teach a first grader her letter sounds.

We need to immediately begin withholding care from the 75+ with 2.6 pre-existing medical conditions going forward, because it appears the moment there is a concern anywhere in the country about ICU beds being scarce, schools are at risk of shutting down.

We also need to remove all mask mandates in schools for both students and teachers because that is deleterious to a child's development, particularly younger children.

Basically, we need to stop caring if any adults die from this, forcibly vaccinate all eligible 12+ individuals and if children without serious pre-existing health conditions start actually dying then we can reconsider. Harsh but true if we ever want to see an end to this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But what’s done is done and being mad won’t help anything. Everyone - schools, teachers, and parents - all need to be working to get the behind kids caught up and/or have them repeat a grade if necessary. The situation will not right itself on its own.

The #1 thing that needs to be done is to grit our teeth and say no to ICU admissions of 75+ year olds with 2.6 preexisting medical conditions instead of shutting down schools again. And it will come down to that, look at cases in highly vaccinated UK and Israel. We did not vaccinate our way out of the pandemic. We cannot let a couple floors in the hospital shut down society again. And it is not just education, it is also mental health, obesity and people's livelihoods on the line.

I was saying this in April 2020. This is the only answer.

- signed, an actual expert in rationing healthcare.

While I agree with all of the above I don't see how they corrects the educational problem we already have. Rationing care is not going to teach a first grader her letter sounds.

We need to immediately begin withholding care from the 75+ with 2.6 pre-existing medical conditions going forward, because it appears the moment there is a concern anywhere in the country about ICU beds being scarce, schools are at risk of shutting down.

We also need to remove all mask mandates in schools for both students and teachers because that is deleterious to a child's development, particularly younger children.

Basically, we need to stop caring if any adults die from this, forcibly vaccinate all eligible 12+ individuals and if children without serious pre-existing health conditions start actually dying then we can reconsider. Harsh but true if we ever want to see an end to this.

Is this a troll?

[Anonymous]

I am very glad vax is coming soon for 5+. I know that age rarely gets very sick, but long term impacts of having covid are yet to be known. I have no interest in allowing my child to be part of that experience if I can help it, which thanks to science, I can help. Vaccinating our children protects them from long term impacts of covid, and allows society to get back to normal to include totally normal school. Its not just protecting old people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But what’s done is done and being mad won’t help anything. Everyone - schools, teachers, and parents - all need to be working to get the behind kids caught up and/or have them repeat a grade if necessary. The situation will not right itself on its own.

The #1 thing that needs to be done is to grit our teeth and say no to ICU admissions of 75+ year olds with 2.6 preexisting medical conditions instead of shutting down schools again. And it will come down to that, look at cases in highly vaccinated UK and Israel. We did not vaccinate our way out of the pandemic. We cannot let a couple floors in the hospital shut down society again. And it is not just education, it is also mental health, obesity and people's livelihoods on the line.

I was saying this in April 2020. This is the only answer.

- signed, an actual expert in rationing healthcare.

While I agree with all of the above I don't see how they corrects the educational problem we already have. Rationing care is not going to teach a first grader her letter sounds.

We need to immediately begin withholding care from the 75+ with 2.6 pre-existing medical conditions going forward, because it appears the moment there is a concern anywhere in the country about ICU beds being scarce, schools are at risk of shutting down.

We also need to remove all mask mandates in schools for both students and teachers because that is deleterious to a child's development, particularly younger children.

Basically, we need to stop caring if any adults die from this, forcibly vaccinate all eligible 12+ individuals and if children without serious pre-existing health conditions start actually dying then we can reconsider. Harsh but true if we ever want to see an end to this.

Is this a troll?

No, just a public health expert who is a mother and also whose family all have been on the front lines in ORs this entire effing pandemic. This is is a coronavirus. It will become endemic. We need to let that happen, and masking in schools is affecting child development (and frankly is inefficient because young kids are touching their faces constantly, getting masks wet, etc.). Unless you're willing to prohibit all travel whatsoever (interstate as well as international) for several months after there are no more cases, there's literally no other answer.

I agree with Zeke's argument generally - https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/08/21/238642/a-doctor-and-medical-ethicist-argues-life-after-75-is-not-worth-living/. We've forsaken kids long enough.

All of that being said, I have been following all prescribed precautions thus far because I live in society. Now, it's time to change the rules and get back to life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But what’s done is done and being mad won’t help anything. Everyone - schools, teachers, and parents - all need to be working to get the behind kids caught up and/or have them repeat a grade if necessary. The situation will not right itself on its own.

The #1 thing that needs to be done is to grit our teeth and say no to ICU admissions of 75+ year olds with 2.6 preexisting medical conditions instead of shutting down schools again. And it will come down to that, look at cases in highly vaccinated UK and Israel. We did not vaccinate our way out of the pandemic. We cannot let a couple floors in the hospital shut down society again. And it is not just education, it is also mental health, obesity and people's livelihoods on the line.

I was saying this in April 2020. This is the only answer.

- signed, an actual expert in rationing healthcare.

While I agree with all of the above I don't see how they corrects the educational problem we already have. Rationing care is not going to teach a first grader her letter sounds.

We need to immediately begin withholding care from the 75+ with 2.6 pre-existing medical conditions going forward, because it appears the moment there is a concern anywhere in the country about ICU beds being scarce, schools are at risk of shutting down.

We also need to remove all mask mandates in schools for both students and teachers because that is deleterious to a child's development, particularly younger children.

Basically, we need to stop caring if any adults die from this, forcibly vaccinate all eligible 12+ individuals and if children without serious pre-existing health conditions start actually dying then we can reconsider. Harsh but true if we ever want to see an end to this.

Is this a troll?

No, just a public health expert who is a mother and also whose family all have been on the front lines in ORs this entire effing pandemic. This is is a coronavirus. It will become endemic. We need to let that happen, and masking in schools is affecting child development (and frankly is inefficient because young kids are touching their faces constantly, getting masks wet, etc.). Unless you're willing to prohibit all travel whatsoever (interstate as well as international) for several months after there are no more cases, there's literally no other answer.

I agree with Zeke's argument generally - https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/08/21/238642/a-doctor-and-medical-ethicist-argues-life-after-75-is-not-worth-living/. We've forsaken kids long enough.

All of that being said, I have been following all prescribed precautions thus far because I live in society. Now, it's time to change the rules and get back to life.

Also I said forcibly vaccinate for a bit of shock value - what I mean by that is mandate vaccination as a condition of using any public service (i.e., roads). If you literally want to sit on your property and never set foot outside of it, then you do you.

[Anonymous]

You are delusional. What you are saying would only make sense for a sterilizing vaccine (vaccinated are totally immune to infection) with no animal reservoirs. Every person on earth could be vaccinated FORCIBLY and this thing would still be here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are delusional. What you are saying would only make sense for a sterilizing vaccine (vaccinated are totally immune to infection) with no animal reservoirs. Every person on earth could be vaccinated FORCIBLY and this thing would still be here.

Who cares? The point is to reduce ICU admissions, not to eliminate COVID. Note that I said it'll be endemic. It will literally never ever be eliminated. But we can't have morons using societal resources and then thinking their idiot selves get to make choices about whether or not vaccines are safe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are delusional. What you are saying would only make sense for a sterilizing vaccine (vaccinated are totally immune to infection) with no animal reservoirs. Every person on earth could be vaccinated FORCIBLY and this thing would still be here.

Who cares? The point is to reduce ICU admissions, not to eliminate COVID. Note that I said it'll be endemic. It will literally never ever be eliminated. But we can't have morons using societal resources and then thinking their idiot selves get to make choices about whether or not vaccines are safe.

How many ICU admissions are being avoided by vaccinating healthy children or even healthy 20 something's? This is a money grab.

[Anonymous]

Teachers did it to themselves. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

So glad my kids were older.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are delusional. What you are saying would only make sense for a sterilizing vaccine (vaccinated are totally immune to infection) with no animal reservoirs. Every person on earth could be vaccinated FORCIBLY and this thing would still be here.

Who cares? The point is to reduce ICU admissions, not to eliminate COVID. Note that I said it'll be endemic. It will literally never ever be eliminated. But we can't have morons using societal resources and then thinking their idiot selves get to make choices about whether or not vaccines are safe.

How many ICU admissions are being avoided by vaccinating healthy children or even healthy 20 something's? This is a money grab.

PP here, and I honestly do agree for the most part. That being said, we need to just go back to normal. Without masks for elementary school and younger AND their teachers. So if we need less community spread for people to be politically okay to do that, vaccinate the shit out of everyone. Not only fire people who won't get it, remove them entirely from society. The point is not whether it works or not - the point is that the American public is pretty stupid and and way too empowered - the average person needs to feel way less comfortable with pushing back against scientific recommendation.

The point I'm trying to make is actually about teachers and mask mandates - that teachers need to be in-person, unmasked every. single. day and mask mandates in educational settings must go. They should also be vaccine mandates for teachers. I really don't care if they get sick and die, but they could infect students. Finally, no one who is dumb enough to be anti-vaxx should be teaching anything (or employed at all).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are delusional. What you are saying would only make sense for a sterilizing vaccine (vaccinated are totally immune to infection) with no animal reservoirs. Every person on earth could be vaccinated FORCIBLY and this thing would still be here.

Who cares? The point is to reduce ICU admissions, not to eliminate COVID. Note that I said it'll be endemic. It will literally never ever be eliminated. But we can't have morons using societal resources and then thinking their idiot selves get to make choices about whether or not vaccines are safe.

How many ICU admissions are being avoided by vaccinating healthy children or even healthy 20 something's? This is a money grab.

PP here, and I honestly do agree for the most part. That being said, we need to just go back to normal. Without masks for elementary school and younger AND their teachers. So if we need less community spread for people to be politically okay to do that, vaccinate the shit out of everyone. Not only fire people who won't get it, remove them entirely from society. The point is not whether it works or not - the point is that the American public is pretty stupid and and way too empowered - the average person needs to feel way less comfortable with pushing back against scientific recommendation.

The point I'm trying to make is actually about teachers and mask mandates - that teachers need to be in-person, unmasked every. single. day and mask mandates in educational settings must go. They should also be vaccine mandates for teachers. I really don't care if they get sick and die, but they could infect students. Finally, no one who is dumb enough to be anti-vaxx should be teaching anything (or employed at all).

You don't agree with me at all! You are an authoritarian! The point HAS to be whether it works or not, not about controlling people to the point of removing them from society. I am ashamed to share this country with people of your mindset.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are delusional. What you are saying would only make sense for a sterilizing vaccine (vaccinated are totally immune to infection) with no animal reservoirs. Every person on earth could be vaccinated FORCIBLY and this thing would still be here.

Who cares? The point is to reduce ICU admissions, not to eliminate COVID. Note that I said it'll be endemic. It will literally never ever be eliminated. But we can't have morons using societal resources and then thinking their idiot selves get to make choices about whether or not vaccines are safe.

How many ICU admissions are being avoided by vaccinating healthy children or even healthy 20 something's? This is a money grab.

PP here, and I honestly do agree for the most part. That being said, we need to just go back to normal. Without masks for elementary school and younger AND their teachers. So if we need less community spread for people to be politically okay to do that, vaccinate the shit out of everyone. Not only fire people who won't get it, remove them entirely from society. The point is not whether it works or not - the point is that the American public is pretty stupid and and way too empowered - the average person needs to feel way less comfortable with pushing back against scientific recommendation.

The point I'm trying to make is actually about teachers and mask mandates - that teachers need to be in-person, unmasked every. single. day and mask mandates in educational settings must go. They should also be vaccine mandates for teachers. I really don't care if they get sick and die, but they could infect students. Finally, no one who is dumb enough to be anti-vaxx should be teaching anything (or employed at all).

You don't agree with me at all! You are an authoritarian! The point HAS to be whether it works or not, not about controlling people to the point of removing them from society. I am ashamed to share this country with people of your mindset.

The feeling is entirely mutual. And yea, at this point I don’t give a flying fig about anti-vaxxers (or their idiot enablers - looking at you). I’m not suggesting we should execute them, just require their vaccination as a condition of participating in anything publicly funded. Do you not drive on the right side of the road? There are a million things we are required to do to participate in society.

And I agree that this might be a money-making thing but frankly I don’t care. Get vaccinated or get out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are delusional. What you are saying would only make sense for a sterilizing vaccine (vaccinated are totally immune to infection) with no animal reservoirs. Every person on earth could be vaccinated FORCIBLY and this thing would still be here.

Who cares? The point is to reduce ICU admissions, not to eliminate COVID. Note that I said it'll be endemic. It will literally never ever be eliminated. But we can't have morons using societal resources and then thinking their idiot selves get to make choices about whether or not vaccines are safe.

How many ICU admissions are being avoided by vaccinating healthy children or even healthy 20 something's? This is a money grab.

PP here, and I honestly do agree for the most part. That being said, we need to just go back to normal. Without masks for elementary school and younger AND their teachers. So if we need less community spread for people to be politically okay to do that, vaccinate the shit out of everyone. Not only fire people who won't get it, remove them entirely from society. The point is not whether it works or not - the point is that the American public is pretty stupid and and way too empowered - the average person needs to feel way less comfortable with pushing back against scientific recommendation.

The point I'm trying to make is actually about teachers and mask mandates - that teachers need to be in-person, unmasked every. single. day and mask mandates in educational settings must go. They should also be vaccine mandates for teachers. I really don't care if they get sick and die, but they could infect students. Finally, no one who is dumb enough to be anti-vaxx should be teaching anything (or employed at all).

You don't agree with me at all! You are an authoritarian! The point HAS to be whether it works or not, not about controlling people to the point of removing them from society. I am ashamed to share this country with people of your mindset.

The feeling is entirely mutual. And yea, at this point I don’t give a flying fig about anti-vaxxers (or their idiot enablers - looking at you). I’m not suggesting we should execute them, just require their vaccination as a condition of participating in anything publicly funded. Do you not drive on the right side of the road? There are a million things we are required to do to participate in society.

And I agree that this might be a money-making thing but frankly I don’t care. Get vaccinated or get out.

NP. The PP was referring to mandates for kids I believe. I agree with your posts - I strongly believe school and kids’ lives are more important than trying to keep anyone over 75 alive - but I think mandates for young kids are ethically questionable, given the marginal risk-benefit ratio in that age group with this virus. I will vaccinate mine, but only to end the restrictions being imposed on them by society, not because I think there is a medical imperative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am very glad vax is coming soon for 5+. I know that age rarely gets very sick, but long term impacts of having covid are yet to be known. I have no interest in allowing my child to be part of that experience if I can help it, which thanks to science, I can help. Vaccinating our children protects them from long term impacts of covid, and allows society to get back to normal to include totally normal school. Its not just protecting old people.

Well that’s the hope anyway. Hard to make conclusions about the long term with short term data!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are delusional. What you are saying would only make sense for a sterilizing vaccine (vaccinated are totally immune to infection) with no animal reservoirs. Every person on earth could be vaccinated FORCIBLY and this thing would still be here.

Who cares? The point is to reduce ICU admissions, not to eliminate COVID. Note that I said it'll be endemic. It will literally never ever be eliminated. But we can't have morons using societal resources and then thinking their idiot selves get to make choices about whether or not vaccines are safe.

How many ICU admissions are being avoided by vaccinating healthy children or even healthy 20 something's? This is a money grab.

PP here, and I honestly do agree for the most part. That being said, we need to just go back to normal. Without masks for elementary school and younger AND their teachers. So if we need less community spread for people to be politically okay to do that, vaccinate the shit out of everyone. Not only fire people who won't get it, remove them entirely from society. The point is not whether it works or not - the point is that the American public is pretty stupid and and way too empowered - the average person needs to feel way less comfortable with pushing back against scientific recommendation.

The point I'm trying to make is actually about teachers and mask mandates - that teachers need to be in-person, unmasked every. single. day and mask mandates in educational settings must go. They should also be vaccine mandates for teachers. I really don't care if they get sick and die, but they could infect students. Finally, no one who is dumb enough to be anti-vaxx should be teaching anything (or employed at all).

You don't agree with me at all! You are an authoritarian! The point HAS to be whether it works or not, not about controlling people to the point of removing them from society. I am ashamed to share this country with people of your mindset.

The feeling is entirely mutual. And yea, at this point I don’t give a flying fig about anti-vaxxers (or their idiot enablers - looking at you). I’m not suggesting we should execute them, just require their vaccination as a condition of participating in anything publicly funded. Do you not drive on the right side of the road? There are a million things we are required to do to participate in society.

And I agree that this might be a money-making thing but frankly I don’t care. Get vaccinated or get out.

I’m fine with mandating the vaccine for students next school year, when fully approved, consistent with what has been done for other vaccines. Although I will vaccinate my kids sooner than that to avoid unnecessary quarantines, I don’t think it should be mandated under EUA to attend public school. Not worth the legal headaches and could ultimately be counterproductive.