UHC CEO Gunned Down in Midtown Manhattan

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I suspect the apologist for the insurance industry who's been posting in this thread all day in fact is an employed wonk with the insurance industry. LOL.

Yeah, that poster seems to be worshipping soundbites.

workshopping

Well they aren’t working.

Honestly, healthcare IS a basic human right. As a society we’ve developed the science to treat disease and ease suffering. Why a big fat insurance CEO needs to get a big cash bonus before humans are treated is simply bizarre.

I get it money, makes the world go around it is what it is. But health insurance companies should not be publicly traded and should be as doctor/patient focused as possible. The responsibility to the shareholders cannot outweigh the responsibility to the customers who need the care.

What about a responsibility to their customers to keep premiums down?

It’s easier to keep premiums down when you’re not paying a bunch of execs multi million dollar salaries.

This whole thing has made really re-evaluate how we think of money in this country. So many people think rich people deserve it because they “worked hard” and think of money in terms of belonging to someone.

But the reality is that money is a form of currency created by our government for the benefit of its citizens. It is printed by our treasury, insured by our FDIC, and taxed through our IRS. To make money, corporations benefit from things like federally funded highways, government research grants, etc.

We need to start looking at money as something inherently belonging to our country and our policies are how we think the money should be transferred around to incentivize creation, but also provide societal stability. No one is inherently entitled to money and just because we *can* create the current system where most of the money is owned by a small percent of people (and often recirculated amongst the offspring of those people or tucked away in a bank) doesn’t mean we should do that.

I’m not saying we need to be a socialist country, but I do think we need to stop with the mentality of money being something that belongs to particular individuals.

Executive salaries and cash bonuses are a *tiny* fraction of health insurance corporate spending. And much of their compensation comes in the form of stock awards and stock options. These are often newly issues shares, meaning they're effectively coming from other shareholders rather than from customer premiums.

No matter.

Get ‘em!!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Luigi had no authority to be judge and executioner.

But the insurance companies do?

Health care isn’t a right. It’s cost money and is an expense. Insurance is a means to pay. But they don’t cover anything and everything on everyone. If there is treatment or med you think you need and they won’t pay, you are welcome to find another means to pay for it.

I mean, it can be a right if we as a nation decide it is. That's how rights work.

No, insurance policies don't cover everything.
And also many insurers renege on covering what they claim to cover.
Both of these things can be true at the same time. Do you actually not understand this?

But keep telling yourself how insurance companies are the good guys, and only demanding, unreasonable, stupid patients get their claims denied. Maybe that will work out for you.

You and many others really don’t get how complex the health system works. Someone told you no and you decided it was their fault.

This economist explains it better than I can.

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-main

Thank you PP, that was an interesting read. As new drugs are developed for diseases that are not common yet cause significant disease burden or death (i.e. spinal muscular atrophy, sickle cell disease, etc.) that literally cost millions per DOSE, it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

Right but everyone is blaming the insurers instead of the biotech and pharma companies for the inflated prices. Apparently the insurers should just pay them whatever they ask.

Also don’t work in insurance, HR actually.

Don't forget the overpaid specialists- namely, anesthesiologists and radiologists.

Sorry insurance PR person. The radiologist, anesthesiologist or surgeon actually treats a patient and often saves their life. It takes years of medical school and training. The insurance leech just wants to take premiums and deny services to make money, The insurance companies are toxic leeches.

Lol

Everyone, not just med school grads, knows what they say about radiologists, anesthesiologists, oral surgeons and cosmetic surgeons.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Luigi had no authority to be judge and executioner.

But the insurance companies do?

Health care isn’t a right. It’s cost money and is an expense. Insurance is a means to pay. But they don’t cover anything and everything on everyone. If there is treatment or med you think you need and they won’t pay, you are welcome to find another means to pay for it.

I mean, it can be a right if we as a nation decide it is. That's how rights work.

No, insurance policies don't cover everything.
And also many insurers renege on covering what they claim to cover.
Both of these things can be true at the same time. Do you actually not understand this?

But keep telling yourself how insurance companies are the good guys, and only demanding, unreasonable, stupid patients get their claims denied. Maybe that will work out for you.

You and many others really don’t get how complex the health system works. Someone told you no and you decided it was their fault.

This economist explains it better than I can.

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-main

Thank you PP, that was an interesting read. As new drugs are developed for diseases that are not common yet cause significant disease burden or death (i.e. spinal muscular atrophy, sickle cell disease, etc.) that literally cost millions per DOSE, it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

Right but everyone is blaming the insurers instead of the biotech and pharma companies for the inflated prices. Apparently the insurers should just pay them whatever they ask.

Also don’t work in insurance, HR actually.

Don't forget the overpaid specialists- namely, anesthesiologists and radiologists.

Sorry insurance PR person. The radiologist, anesthesiologist or surgeon actually treats a patient and often saves their life. It takes years of medical school and training. The insurance leech just wants to take premiums and deny services to make money, The insurance companies are toxic leeches.

I'm sure those radiologists and anesthesiologists aren't interesting in making money. Their $500k incomes are just a coincidence.

Gotta give people diagnosing cancer a salary haircut. The insurance executives’ $10M salaries don’t pay themselves.

Mo’ cancer and preventative care and tests = more income

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Murder without rational motive is typically due to mental illness. This CEO didn’t even know him or affect him personally

Or cults and indoctrination. Luigi thinks what he did was warranted and necessary, and will save the world.

I don’t think he is mentally ill unless doing a few too many shrooms is mental illness. He probably is getting an astronomical amount of prison fan mail so he probably won’t feel like he did a bad thing. His manifesto and writings are extremely clear. He probably thinks of himself as some special revolutionary who stuck it to the man.

His note is not clear. It’s mumbo jumbo cliches tied to each other.

C- material at Gilman or Penn

Who TF are you and why are you so unhinged?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the apologist for the insurance industry who's been posting in this thread all day in fact is an employed wonk with the insurance industry. LOL.

Yeah, that poster seems to be worshipping soundbites.

workshopping

Well they aren’t working.

Honestly, healthcare IS a basic human right. As a society we’ve developed the science to treat disease and ease suffering. Why a big fat insurance CEO needs to get a big cash bonus before humans are treated is simply bizarre.

Amen! Free healthcare for all!

The murderer was a fan of AOC so this all makes sense.

You seem simple minded and trying to politicize this. He was also a fan of many right wing and libertarian personalities. His close associates reported he was very "anti woke" but also "not particularly political."

This is a type. The young, privileged white guy who voted for Bernie and then Trump twice.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why is anyone the target?!

But what about the the unaffordable cost of health care and claims that get denied?

People except too much. Sorry, but they do. As a population we are over treated and over medicated. It’s not sustainable. I’m 40 and I honestly can’t think of a single female friend that isn’t on an SSRI, anti anxiety, or stimulant med. 75% of the population had eaten their way into diabetes, being overweight or obesity. Now we need an expensive drug to fix it because no one wants to eat less. Women want to wait to have kids into their mid 30s and 40s use IVF. People used to have kids in their 20s or just accept kids weren’t in the cards if it didn’t happen naturally. Not anymore. I don’t think our problem is healthcare, it’s our expectations. People want to live until 100 and have every single aliment and discomfort alleviated. Getting sick and dying is part of life. Curing and fixing everything on everyone, every time, at all ages (or using up tons of resources trying) is not sustainable

Sure, UHC is doing us all a favor by charging us ever increasing premiums and then refusing to pay out.

If this is the best talking point the insurance industry can ciome up with, no wonder their share prices are getting decimated.

See how much you’d be paying without insurance involved. All you people seem to think that $20K is a reasonable cost for a broken leg in the ER and insurance should just pay it are the problem. We are a nation of spoiled, poorly educated children.

What dummy is going to the ER room and not an orthopedist for a broken leg.

And no, it wouldn’t be $20k at an ER room to set a leg cast after X-rays. Stop wasting their time and our time with your nonsense

I've had 3 broken bones in the last 18 years. One was actually 4 breaks (wrist). I went to the ER each time. You get ortho referral and see ortho later. The last one was my leg (fell off ladder, same as what did my wrist but this time on a wood floor instead of a cast iron/porcelain clawfoot bathtub--those suckers are dangerous!). I don't even remember if I saw ortho after (may have just been a very routine check)--it as a very simple fracture, top of tibia, they gave me a big ol wrap brace at the ER and I was gtg.

I found out there is a ortho urgent care, never heard of that.

What an uninformed rip off you are.

ER docs make fun of people like you (and the opioid regulars), but are happy to take your $500 copayment and up charge you for their triage time.

Even urgimeds take X-rays and give boots or splints.

Glad you don’t have kids and take them to the $$$&& ER room at every sniffle or fracture. What a hoot.

If “actually you need to wait three weeks while in excruciating pain to see an orthopedist when you break a bone” is the tack that the insurance PP flunky here is trying out, I’m not sensing insurance companies are gonna be winning the PR battle any time soon.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:How long with a prep boy last in prison?

I wonder if he will do time? Probably will because he killed another white man.

Life sentence. or death penalty if its legal.

No way. If POSs like OJ and Rittenhouse walked, this guy should def walk too. P Diddy on the other hand deserves the death penalty.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The young ones are also taking no crap from Josh Shapiro about this. They are very upset with him and also treating this situation as "unserious" as they say. It is interesting how the 'support' for Mangione doesn't seem based in political ideology, but rather social/power strata differences.

https://www.tiktok.com/@spacepinata/video/7446908246150974763?lang=en

https://www.tiktok.com/@dulcedeletii/video/7446569595961412906

Yeah. Mangione was a member of the underclass. /s

But even the wealthy get f***ed by insurance companies. We have a HHI but had a huge problem with an insurance company. I completely understand Mangione’s rage. I have felt it (still do from time to time) but obviously I didn’t go shoot the CEO of Aetna. I was literally running the cost of suing Aetna against the cost of paying for a procedure out of pocket. Suing a large insurance company is super expensive because they have a team of lawyers whereas I would probably be penniless from hiring one lawyer to sue. I don’t think most people understand how expensive a lawsuit is and how draining emotionally and financially it would be. You may win coverage but you will spend everything in lawyer fees.

But that doesn’t sound like what even happened to him. He wanted a particular spinal surgery and the doctor refused to do it. Seems like it wasn’t indicated, wouldn’t help, risk didn’t out weigh the benefits, etc. It wasn’t even a matter of insurance. But this stuff happens ALL the time. People think they need a lot of things that they really don’t. And him being as “smart” of course thinks he knows better than the doctors and it’s all a conspiracy

We the public do not know if he got surgery or not, if he recovered or not, if he paid off his part of his care or not
.
We know nothing. Young adults posting online to friends or strangers is 80% BS and posturing.

This will be a fascinating case in that the 26 yo left BS and true social media posts and emails and reviews everywhere. Some true, many false (as is the nature with people’s online self).

It will also play into the current court case where the young adult with the AI friend commit suicide. My VC/ psychologist contact is as expert witness on that one. It’s a lot to process. also in any court system I believe.

Moral of the story: Delete ALL your reviews and posts on social media and news sites NOW!

😅

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The young ones are also taking no crap from Josh Shapiro about this. They are very upset with him and also treating this situation as "unserious" as they say. It is interesting how the 'support' for Mangione doesn't seem based in political ideology, but rather social/power strata differences.

https://www.tiktok.com/@spacepinata/video/7446908246150974763?lang=en

https://www.tiktok.com/@dulcedeletii/video/7446569595961412906

Yeah. Mangione was a member of the underclass. /s

But even the wealthy get f***ed by insurance companies. We have a HHI but had a huge problem with an insurance company. I completely understand Mangione’s rage. I have felt it (still do from time to time) but obviously I didn’t go shoot the CEO of Aetna. I was literally running the cost of suing Aetna against the cost of paying for a procedure out of pocket. Suing a large insurance company is super expensive because they have a team of lawyers whereas I would probably be penniless from hiring one lawyer to sue. I don’t think most people understand how expensive a lawsuit is and how draining emotionally and financially it would be. You may win coverage but you will spend everything in lawyer fees.

But that doesn’t sound like what even happened to him. He wanted a particular spinal surgery and the doctor refused to do it. Seems like it wasn’t indicated, wouldn’t help, risk didn’t out weigh the benefits, etc. It wasn’t even a matter of insurance. But this stuff happens ALL the time. People think they need a lot of things that they really don’t. And him being as “smart” of course thinks he knows better than the doctors and it’s all a conspiracy

We the public do not know if he got surgery or not, if he recovered or not, if he paid off his part of his care or not
.
We know nothing. Young adults posting online to friends or strangers is 80% BS and posturing.

This will be a fascinating case in that the 26 yo left BS and true social media posts and emails and reviews everywhere. Some true, many false (as is the nature with people’s online self).

It will also play into the current court case where the young adult with the AI friend commit suicide. My VC/ psychologist contact is as expert witness on that one. It’s a lot to process. also in any court system I believe.

Moral of the story: Delete ALL your reviews and posts on social media and news sites NOW!

Better yet...don't put posts and reviews out there.

Have no voice. Don’t try to fix things

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Did he want to get caught? Why didn’t he fly back to Hawaii? What’s his relation to middle PA?

TSA uses facial recognition now. There's no way he could have flown.

He could have flown the day it happened before his partial photo was everywhere.

A young man randomly hanging out in the middle of nowhere PA makes you look extremely suspicious. Dead-end rust belt towns are all townies and elderly people.

They would have tracked him if he’d flown.

I don't know that they would have, or if they did, it would take awhile. He could have been across the globe in a country without an extradition treaty before they even released their crappy pics.

Flying is expensive and requires credit cards and valid IDs. Would also have to toss all of the fake IDs.

That said, should have bought a Rolex on a credit card and flown to a foreign country. Rolex can be sold for quick cash.

Hanging out in middle PA is a lame after such apparent methodical planning.

This is a pretty wacky ending. How could he think this was a good idea? Did the popular reaction make him cocky? People might talk a big game when they're behind a keyboard at home, but it turns out people are nervous around murderers.

It's much, much easier to plan a surprise attack than to escape detection afterward.
It's a sudden huge shift in advantage in the scenario.
It's a different universe before vs after. It's bound to collapse.

He probably thought they were going to catch him much faster. He probably could have bought himself time if he flew that day

Flying would have brought with it a huge risk of the police waiting for him when the plane landed, with the assumption that it was just a matter of time before his face was on camera somewhere.

Not if changed his appearance, which is what an intelligent, meticulous person would do. He planned the rest to perfection, why couldn’t he have plucked his brows a bit and put on glasses?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Poor little rich boy (who appears to have issue been salty about a lot more than insurance companies.) gee, maybe we shouldn’t valorize premeditated murder?

Why would him being rich change anyone’s opinion about the CEO and United Healthcare’s business practices?

NP here. Well learning that his parents made their fortune from assisted living facilities, it’s like pick your poison. Do I screw over people via health insurance or do I screw over elderly and disabled people who have dementia, Alzheimer’s, etc and milk their families dry.

Yeah, neither family has clean hands here. Not saying it justifies murder but the hypocrisy is stunning. He’s no Robin Hood.

He is a separate individual from his parents, no? Furthermore, he sounds like he was estranged from them. Even if he wasn’t, children should not be responsible for their parents’ sins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He looks different in every photo.

Handsome in all of them

+1. The more I see and read about him, and the more information that comes out about the murder victim, the more torn and confuse I become.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If there’s anybody doubting that they got the right guy, he is now been forensically tied to the crime scene through his fingerprints.

How so? There wouldn't be any of his prints at the crime scene - the only thing he touched was the gun.

Maybe the engraved bullet casings?

The water bottle. The bike.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Murder without rational motive is typically due to mental illness. This CEO didn’t even know him or affect him personally

Financial ruin and poor health are highly personal

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:His mother, family members, or friends likely recognized him and possibly notified NYPD or the FBI, but that information was not released to the public. That wouldn't necessarily help law enforcement find him.

They specifically said that nobody had called in with his name.

I really think there was disbelief that their friend, their son, their relative was the shooter. They probably thought it was funny that the shooter look like their friend.

Wow.

Bet they had already lawyered up and screen grabbed all his socials.

His social in the form of “ X “ was briefly reinstated by one Elon Musk yesterday.

Know what jumps out at you? His book list.

It’s mostly nonfiction concerning PSILOCYBIN MUSHROOMS.

Plus the Dr Suess book, The Lorax.

He is 26 years old, but his parents still reported him “missing” to police back in November. Several of his friends reported Luigi stopped communicating in September.

A mental health crisis was suffered by Luigi in the September - November time frame.

Wasn’t he in Hawaii for part of that time?

Or Japan? Wtf?

Who takes a flight to Japan w chronic back pain?

I passed out in an airport due to chronic back pain. I didn't want my life to be not worth living so I kept working and work requried travel.

they are saying the back surgery caused ED. And he's upset about that.

His stopping to flirt knowing he couldn’t do anything for her is kinda funny