UHC CEO Gunned Down in Midtown Manhattan

[Anonymous]

I am surprised no one has focused on his family owning nursing homes, which also are notoriously awful places designed for the owners to strike it rich at the expense of low quality care. Almost if not worse than the insurance company outrage.

Of course, I have no idea what his family's nursing homes are like. Can someone enlighten us?

[Anonymous]

On Reddit they published the number where one could send money to his jailhouse account and apparently donations are adding up.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Luigi had no authority to be judge and executioner.

He thinks so.

We need to find out who/what was funding his life of luxury before this shooting.

He sold a house for 900k a few years back so presumably that.

Where was the 900k house? Also, when did he turn 26? Can we assume he was dropped from his parent's insurance on his last bday?

His parents gifted him a house that he then sold. So he made 900K and left for Hawaii.

Made $900K? Wtf math whiz. Only if they paid 100% equity and zero realtor fees to buy and sell it.

Have you taken your meds today?

Only an idiot thinks the sales price is all money in the bank.

They prob don’t even know what % a typical down payment or a mortgage is.

Like my BIL who thinks his gross salary is all coming to his bank account 100%. And forgets about income taxes and withholdings.

Those people exist. They don’t get it.

You don’t know how much the house sold for. Maybe he did make $900k if he sold it for more.

Sheesh, dude, take a breath.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How ironic. Even the $60,000 reward offer might get denied!

https://nypost.com/2024/12/11/us-news/who-gets-the-60k-reward-in-search-for-unitedhealthcare-ceos-killer/

Once the word gets out that you won’t really be paid, people won’t be as helpful.

Wrong.

Most people do the right thing. Especially when not in an echo chamber website or college setting.

They offer a reward because they find it works to encourage people to send in tips—not just for the heck of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is anyone the target?!

But what about the the unaffordable cost of health care and claims that get denied?

People except too much. Sorry, but they do. As a population we are over treated and over medicated. It’s not sustainable. I’m 40 and I honestly can’t think of a single female friend that isn’t on an SSRI, anti anxiety, or stimulant med. 75% of the population had eaten their way into diabetes, being overweight or obesity. Now we need an expensive drug to fix it because no one wants to eat less. Women want to wait to have kids into their mid 30s and 40s use IVF. People used to have kids in their 20s or just accept kids weren’t in the cards if it didn’t happen naturally. Not anymore. I don’t think our problem is healthcare, it’s our expectations. People want to live until 100 and have every single aliment and discomfort alleviated. Getting sick and dying is part of life. Curing and fixing everything on everyone, every time, at all ages (or using up tons of resources trying) is not sustainable

Well the fact so much of the population is obese, can’t afford to have kids until their fertility is declining, and need psych meds to function, evidences some societal failures that we aren’t going to “personal responsibility” our way out of. And unsurprisingly the hormone disrupters in the products we use, unhealthy changes to our food supply, and lack of family supports (e.g. paid parental leave) are brought to us courtesy of companies trying to increase their shareholder value.

Also, your post complete ignores the fact that anyone can become disabled or have an expensive accident that causes significant medical bills. Someone is going to have a baby in the NICU. Someone is going to have a bad fall. Someone is going to get cancer despite a healthy diet and working out. Someone is going to need medication to manage their health conditions. Insurance companies are supposed to be there for this when this happens after paying all our premiums.

We could absolutely have better coverage if we spent money on patients instead of allowing year over year record profits.

My take, too. The system isn't working for most people.

I agree with most of what PP is saying but the profits aren’t really the issue. UHC’s profits have been in the 5-6% range. So it could eliminate all its profits and still only provide 6% more care.
A non profit model doesn’t seem to be the solution — UPMC is a non profit and its CEO got an 8M bonus last year.

I think a big part of the problem is that we’ve had totally miraculous medical advances in the last 20 years. I know people with plain old ordinary health insurance getting gene therapy, biological treatments for autoimmune conditions, nerve blocking injections for pain, and bioengineered artificial skin transplants. All of which would have been sci fi just a decade or so ago. Insurance companies used to limit their cost by excluding the high priced participants, but they aren’t allowed to do that anymore so instead they try to come up with creative cost controls built around bureaucratic gate keeping. Which drives up costs even more as providers hire staff to deal with the bureaucracy. We need some sort of better national consensus on whether we are willing to pay for for health care or limit care more. I don’t think even a government health care system would solve the problem at this point, even if Americans were willing to move to that system, which it doesn’t seem like they want to.

Well, a conservative Trump-voting woman I know who is still paying off the birth of her six-year-old recently told me that she used to be dead-set against universal health care but she’s come around and now thinks it’s the solution. The rage at our health care system exists everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Luigi had no authority to be judge and executioner.

But the insurance companies do?

Health care isn’t a right. It’s cost money and is an expense. Insurance is a means to pay. But they don’t cover anything and everything on everyone. If there is treatment or med you think you need and they won’t pay, you are welcome to find another means to pay for it.

I mean, it can be a right if we as a nation decide it is. That's how rights work.

No, insurance policies don't cover everything.
And also many insurers renege on covering what they claim to cover.
Both of these things can be true at the same time. Do you actually not understand this?

But keep telling yourself how insurance companies are the good guys, and only demanding, unreasonable, stupid patients get their claims denied. Maybe that will work out for you.

You and many others really don’t get how complex the health system works. Someone told you no and you decided it was their fault.

This economist explains it better than I can.

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-main

People here don’t know how 20% down payments on a $900,000 property work either.

His parents have a real estate empire. They gave him this property, likely one they owned, as a gift. They didn't give it as "here's a property with 200k equity, the mortgage payments start June 1st. You're welcome." It's safe to assume he owned the place outright to do what he wanted to with it. It sold for 900k so he pocketed whatever 900 minus transaction fees were. Let's be totally outrageous and say those were 200k, he left with 700k and that was his funding. He's from a wealthy family in real estate, this is not an unusual gift for a 20 something kid from their parents.

Some local multi family homes in Baltimore = a real estate empire?!?

Gawd.

Glad you never met any intl students at college who really did own family empires.

Owing 2 golf course resorts, a radio station, and a dozen nursing homes is a bit more than "local multi family homes"

It's plenty to give your kid a starter home.

I agree. I was replying to the person insuating they didn’t have much money. They have plenty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he was upset about his mother’s treatment, why did he cut off contact leaving her to file a missing person report?

People are asking all these questions like he’s a sane rational actor. He is not. It is very sad. Everyone is talking about it because it happened to be UHC that his paranoia focused on. It could have been someone at his surf coop, or the head of his former employer, or a piliitican. But it obviously says something about where Americans are with healthcare that they are building this Robin Hood narrative around him.

Agree.
The biases are rampant.

#1 thing when dealing with a mentally ill person is not to assume normal, rationale motives. Or sometimes any motive.

Wait for the “voices told me to do it” defense.

Since when did murder = mental illness? Humans have been killing each other without being mentally-ill since Cain killed Able. If you're Christian, then you believe that in God's eye, there is no valid reason for murder. But that doesn't mean that people can't have internally rational motives for murder. Luigi's reasons are internally consistent: mental illness is not needed to explain them.

Luigi had no authority to be judge and executioner.

But the insurance companies do?

Health care isn’t a right. It’s cost money and is an expense. Insurance is a means to pay. But they don’t cover anything and everything on everyone. If there is treatment or med you think you need and they won’t pay, you are welcome to find another means to pay for it.

I mean, it can be a right if we as a nation decide it is. That's how rights work.

No, insurance policies don't cover everything.
And also many insurers renege on covering what they claim to cover.
Both of these things can be true at the same time. Do you actually not understand this?

But keep telling yourself how insurance companies are the good guys, and only demanding, unreasonable, stupid patients get their claims denied. Maybe that will work out for you.

You and many others really don’t get how complex the health system works. Someone told you no and you decided it was their fault.

This economist explains it better than I can.

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/insurance-companies-arent-the-main

Thank you PP, that was an interesting read. As new drugs are developed for diseases that are not common yet cause significant disease burden or death (i.e. spinal muscular atrophy, sickle cell disease, etc.) that literally cost millions per DOSE, it will be interesting to see how that plays out.

Right but everyone is blaming the insurers instead of the biotech and pharma companies for the inflated prices. Apparently the insurers should just pay them whatever they ask.

Also don’t work in insurance, HR actually.

Pharma will probably be next.

[Anonymous]

Pharma next and who else? Is this finally going to be the reckoning for the Fortune 500?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is anyone the target?!

But what about the the unaffordable cost of health care and claims that get denied?

People except too much. Sorry, but they do. As a population we are over treated and over medicated. It’s not sustainable. I’m 40 and I honestly can’t think of a single female friend that isn’t on an SSRI, anti anxiety, or stimulant med. 75% of the population had eaten their way into diabetes, being overweight or obesity. Now we need an expensive drug to fix it because no one wants to eat less. Women want to wait to have kids into their mid 30s and 40s use IVF. People used to have kids in their 20s or just accept kids weren’t in the cards if it didn’t happen naturally. Not anymore. I don’t think our problem is healthcare, it’s our expectations. People want to live until 100 and have every single aliment and discomfort alleviated. Getting sick and dying is part of life. Curing and fixing everything on everyone, every time, at all ages (or using up tons of resources trying) is not sustainable

Sure, UHC is doing us all a favor by charging us ever increasing premiums and then refusing to pay out.

If this is the best talking point the insurance industry can ciome up with, no wonder their share prices are getting decimated.

See how much you’d be paying without insurance involved. All you people seem to think that $20K is a reasonable cost for a broken leg in the ER and insurance should just pay it are the problem. We are a nation of spoiled, poorly educated children.

What dummy is going to the ER room and not an orthopedist for a broken leg.

And no, it wouldn’t be $20k at an ER room to set a leg cast after X-rays. Stop wasting their time and our time with your nonsense

WTF. Every normal person goes to the ER for a broken leg because that’s an emergency. You can’t get in to see an orthopedist without two weeks minimum wait.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How ironic. Even the $60,000 reward offer might get denied!

https://nypost.com/2024/12/11/us-news/who-gets-the-60k-reward-in-search-for-unitedhealthcare-ceos-killer/

Wouldn't surprise me if the McDonald's tip thing is fake and they actually quickly found out who he was via some creepy cyber Patriot Act / NSA / Palantir method and nabbed him when he logged onto the wi-fi via device(s) they were tracking. Who freakin' knows!

Never bet against police incompetence. All kinds of ways to bilk government dollars with tech that doesn't work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I am surprised no one has focused on his family owning nursing homes, which also are notoriously awful places designed for the owners to strike it rich at the expense of low quality care. Almost if not worse than the insurance company outrage.

Of course, I have no idea what his family's nursing homes are like. Can someone enlighten us?

It was covered many pages ago a day or two ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the apologist for the insurance industry who's been posting in this thread all day in fact is an employed wonk with the insurance industry. LOL.

Yeah, that poster seems to be worshipping soundbites.

workshopping

Well they aren’t working.

Honestly, healthcare IS a basic human right. As a society we’ve developed the science to treat disease and ease suffering. Why a big fat insurance CEO needs to get a big cash bonus before humans are treated is simply bizarre.

I get it money, makes the world go around it is what it is. But health insurance companies should not be publicly traded and should be as doctor/patient focused as possible. The responsibility to the shareholders cannot outweigh the responsibility to the customers who need the care.

What about a responsibility to their customers to keep premiums down?

It’s easier to keep premiums down when you’re not paying a bunch of execs multi million dollar salaries.

This whole thing has made really re-evaluate how we think of money in this country. So many people think rich people deserve it because they “worked hard” and think of money in terms of belonging to someone.

But the reality is that money is a form of currency created by our government for the benefit of its citizens. It is printed by our treasury, insured by our FDIC, and taxed through our IRS. To make money, corporations benefit from things like federally funded highways, government research grants, etc.

We need to start looking at money as something inherently belonging to our country and our policies are how we think the money should be transferred around to incentivize creation, but also provide societal stability. No one is inherently entitled to money and just because we *can* create the current system where most of the money is owned by a small percent of people (and often recirculated amongst the offspring of those people or tucked away in a bank) doesn’t mean we should do that.

I’m not saying we need to be a socialist country, but I do think we need to stop with the mentality of money being something that belongs to particular individuals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How ironic. Even the $60,000 reward offer might get denied!

https://nypost.com/2024/12/11/us-news/who-gets-the-60k-reward-in-search-for-unitedhealthcare-ceos-killer/

Wouldn't surprise me if the McDonald's tip thing is fake and they actually quickly found out who he was via some creepy cyber Patriot Act / NSA / Palantir method and nabbed him when he logged onto the wi-fi via device(s) they were tracking. Who freakin' knows!

Never bet against police incompetence. All kinds of ways to bilk government dollars with tech that doesn't work.

Just look at China. Facial recognition tech works. The search process would have been automated once his face appeared on CCTV.

But state and local govt, much less the feds, haven’t implemented it. It’s a privacy lawsuit nightmare. The Biden admin pretty much banned its widespread use domestically because of equity issues (aka facial recognition inaccurately tagging colored people). It’s a political landmine that also requires way too much inter-government collaboration to roll out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the apologist for the insurance industry who's been posting in this thread all day in fact is an employed wonk with the insurance industry. LOL.

Yeah, that poster seems to be worshipping soundbites.

workshopping

Well they aren’t working.

Honestly, healthcare IS a basic human right. As a society we’ve developed the science to treat disease and ease suffering. Why a big fat insurance CEO needs to get a big cash bonus before humans are treated is simply bizarre.

I get it money, makes the world go around it is what it is. But health insurance companies should not be publicly traded and should be as doctor/patient focused as possible. The responsibility to the shareholders cannot outweigh the responsibility to the customers who need the care.

What about a responsibility to their customers to keep premiums down?

It’s easier to keep premiums down when you’re not paying a bunch of execs multi million dollar salaries.

This whole thing has made really re-evaluate how we think of money in this country. So many people think rich people deserve it because they “worked hard” and think of money in terms of belonging to someone.

But the reality is that money is a form of currency created by our government for the benefit of its citizens. It is printed by our treasury, insured by our FDIC, and taxed through our IRS. To make money, corporations benefit from things like federally funded highways, government research grants, etc.

We need to start looking at money as something inherently belonging to our country and our policies are how we think the money should be transferred around to incentivize creation, but also provide societal stability. No one is inherently entitled to money and just because we *can* create the current system where most of the money is owned by a small percent of people (and often recirculated amongst the offspring of those people or tucked away in a bank) doesn’t mean we should do that.

I’m not saying we need to be a socialist country, but I do think we need to stop with the mentality of money being something that belongs to particular individuals.

Hi, comrade!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I suspect the apologist for the insurance industry who's been posting in this thread all day in fact is an employed wonk with the insurance industry. LOL.

Yeah, that poster seems to be worshipping soundbites.

workshopping

Well they aren’t working.

Honestly, healthcare IS a basic human right. As a society we’ve developed the science to treat disease and ease suffering. Why a big fat insurance CEO needs to get a big cash bonus before humans are treated is simply bizarre.

I get it money, makes the world go around it is what it is. But health insurance companies should not be publicly traded and should be as doctor/patient focused as possible. The responsibility to the shareholders cannot outweigh the responsibility to the customers who need the care.

What about a responsibility to their customers to keep premiums down?

It’s easier to keep premiums down when you’re not paying a bunch of execs multi million dollar salaries.

This whole thing has made really re-evaluate how we think of money in this country. So many people think rich people deserve it because they “worked hard” and think of money in terms of belonging to someone.

But the reality is that money is a form of currency created by our government for the benefit of its citizens. It is printed by our treasury, insured by our FDIC, and taxed through our IRS. To make money, corporations benefit from things like federally funded highways, government research grants, etc.

We need to start looking at money as something inherently belonging to our country and our policies are how we think the money should be transferred around to incentivize creation, but also provide societal stability. No one is inherently entitled to money and just because we *can* create the current system where most of the money is owned by a small percent of people (and often recirculated amongst the offspring of those people or tucked away in a bank) doesn’t mean we should do that.

I’m not saying we need to be a socialist country, but I do think we need to stop with the mentality of money being something that belongs to particular individuals.

Executive salaries and cash bonuses are a *tiny* fraction of health insurance corporate spending. And much of their compensation comes in the form of stock awards and stock options. These are often newly issues shares, meaning they're effectively coming from other shareholders rather than from customer premiums.