Fire in upper NW?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am depressed over this case. I truly am heartbroken. I can't sleep at night. I wish I didn't listen to the Voicemail. The little boys voice rings in my ear every second.

Again- see above. This is not normal.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if people will now be less likely to pressure/expect their assistants/personal employees to do random things without asking questions ... this is what can happen when you create an employment culture where people are conditioned to not ask questions because they'll get in trouble. They don't ask questions even when it's blatantly obvious they should ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:18:37. Love this post. Keep doing the great work you are doing. If it is not you, you clearly know enough to let us know that the US Attorney's office is doing great work, and I feel reassured that we are in good hands.

It's idiotic that you think:
-that someone involved in this case is posting on dcum right now
-that the US atty's office doesn't know exactly what they are doing

This is the kind of productive post that this community needs imo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree they did plan all along to murder everyone but, even from the criminal perspective, why oh why did they have to torture/murder that poor child? SS would have done anything to get them the $$ without them torturing his child, don't you think? And wouldn't the mere threat of torture/hurting the child be enough to make him go as fast as he could w/ getting the $$? And, really, they didn't need to involve the child at all in any of it. They could have tied him up somewhere away from the rest/out of the way and I think they still could have (if not for the pizza) gotten away with this crime and wouldn't have had to worry too much about the child being able to ID them...I doubt most kids would really be able to ID someone in a situation like this...just so unimaginably awful that they did any of this, but especially the parts involving the child

We don't know that the child was tortured. For all we know, the child was restrained but not physically harmed until the last moments when the murders were committed.

Second, a 10 year old who had spent hours with the suspects would know many valuable facts. He knows their sex, race, general build. He knows how many of them there were, etc. Remember, before the surveillance video came out people were speculating this was a Mafia hit. From the perspective of the murderers, their odds of escaping capture were much better killing all four of them (and anyone else who had the misfortune of stumbling into this). That's simple logic.

Only stupid people.

OK, so you're assumption is that without the video and the DNA evidence (which the criminals assumed wouldn't exist when he/they were making these calculations), the police would have immediately known it's a black suspect?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:anybody else wish we had the ability to "like" posts on this thread?

Hit the quote button in upper right of the post, then add +1 under the quote, +1,000,000 if you really liked it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in DC, if I did, (and you all represent a group who could do something) I would be pressing my policy and prosecutor on why the five found with Wint are not being held on aiding and abetting. This is outrageous. How are people to feel safe?

First of all, the police were executing a warrant for the arrest of DW. There was no warrant drawn up on the others, so there would be no immediately reason to arrest them.

Once the others were found with him, the issue becomes, first, whether you have probably cause of a criminal offense on any of them. If so, you can obtain arrest warrants while they're in custody, but this means you start the clock on the presentment process, etc.

By not charging them (and potentially releasing them), you can continue to monitor them (which you can be assured is happening) while you collect more evidence. This also allows the suspects to continue taking actions which help you connect the web of contacts, etc. You can also conduct voluntary interviews with them (if they consent), which allows you to obtain impeachable statements.

Ultimately, I'd be very surprised if some of these individuals aren't charged, but it may take some time to build up evidence against them, and you can rest assured they are under a tight watch.

By the way, the prosecutor here is the U.S. Attorney's Office, so this is not some dumb local prosecutor with no sophistication.

This +100000 Prosecutors here actually know wtf they are doing. It's nothing like a state prosecution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree they did plan all along to murder everyone but, even from the criminal perspective, why oh why did they have to torture/murder that poor child? SS would have done anything to get them the $$ without them torturing his child, don't you think? And wouldn't the mere threat of torture/hurting the child be enough to make him go as fast as he could w/ getting the $$? And, really, they didn't need to involve the child at all in any of it. They could have tied him up somewhere away from the rest/out of the way and I think they still could have (if not for the pizza) gotten away with this crime and wouldn't have had to worry too much about the child being able to ID them...I doubt most kids would really be able to ID someone in a situation like this...just so unimaginably awful that they did any of this, but especially the parts involving the child

We don't know that the child was tortured. For all we know, the child was restrained but not physically harmed until the last moments when the murders were committed.

Second, a 10 year old who had spent hours with the suspects would know many valuable facts. He knows their sex, race, general build. He knows how many of them there were, etc. Remember, before the surveillance video came out people were speculating this was a Mafia hit. From the perspective of the murderers, their odds of escaping capture were much better killing all four of them (and anyone else who had the misfortune of stumbling into this). That's simple logic.

True, we don't know for sure that he was tortured but it sure sounds like he was from the facts we do have. I can see why the murderers would think they had to kill everyone. BUT, I was saying they could have had 1 guy immediately upon entering the house and starting the hostage situation, while wearing a mask and gloves, etc., take the child away to some far corner of the house and tie him up/gag him whatever and leave him there, never interacting w/ him again for the whole time. I know that is not the top priority (obviously) for heartless murderers, I'm just saying they could have done something like this where the child didn't need to be hurt AND wouldn't have really been a liability to them either. That is all. I'll drop this topic now because I don't want to get off onto a long tangent of what ifs

We can drop it with this... but my theory is that they were not masked when they first entered the house. Instead, they used a ruse to gain voluntary entry. Second, when you are holding people hostage for 15+ hours, it's tough to do what you're suggesting in practice (isolating a hostage in a way in which he'd have no relevant knowledge for police). When they first got there, it was probably just the child and the nanny anyway. In the mind of a criminal like this, the child is collateral damage.

yeah, i doubt they were masked when they first went in either. I just hate thinking about not only the awfulness they displayed but also how senseless it all was...child likely tortured/died a gruesome death, 3 adults also brutally murdered...for what, 40k and a car to drive around for an hour or so? just nothing to come up with to say about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am depressed over this case. I truly am heartbroken. I can't sleep at night. I wish I didn't listen to the Voicemail. The little boys voice rings in my ear every second.

Again- see above. This is not normal.

Different poster here, but it's normal to feel empathy/heartbreak over things that happen to people you don't know. For example, I'm heartbroken when I watch video of Auschwitz, and I am not Jewish nor do I have any relatives who were killed in the Holocaust. Cut people some slack. The details of this case and are in fact heartbreaking. Jurors won't sleep either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in DC, if I did, (and you all represent a group who could do something) I would be pressing my policy and prosecutor on why the five found with Wint are not being held on aiding and abetting. This is outrageous. How are people to feel safe?

First of all, the police were executing a warrant for the arrest of DW. There was no warrant drawn up on the others, so there would be no immediately reason to arrest them.

Once the others were found with him, the issue becomes, first, whether you have probably cause of a criminal offense on any of them. If so, you can obtain arrest warrants while they're in custody, but this means you start the clock on the presentment process, etc.

By not charging them (and potentially releasing them), you can continue to monitor them (which you can be assured is happening) while you collect more evidence. This also allows the suspects to continue taking actions which help you connect the web of contacts, etc. You can also conduct voluntary interviews with them (if they consent), which allows you to obtain impeachable statements.

Ultimately, I'd be very surprised if some of these individuals aren't charged, but it may take some time to build up evidence against them, and you can rest assured they are under a tight watch.

By the way, the prosecutor here is the U.S. Attorney's Office, so this is not some dumb local prosecutor with no sophistication.

DC is handled by US Attorneys because DC isn't a state. They prosecute all criminal cases in DC.

This +100000 Prosecutors here actually know wtf they are doing. It's nothing like a state prosecution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:now that he has been caught and arrested along with his brother and several other people, is it reasonable to assume that he had accomplices? I am thinking he and his brothers were the ones actually in the house/who committed the kidnapping, extortion, torture, murder, arson, robbery and then there was someone else (I am guessing one of the women, for no particular reason just a hunch since women are generally seen as less threatening than men) who drove the suspects to the S house or was somehow involved in helping the other suspect(s) (the one(s) who did not take the Porsche) get away from the scene.

Here is what I think happened (no revelations here, just what seems to me to be pretty obvious based on what we know): DW and/or his brother went up to the door Wed afternoon, possibly wearing some type of uniform/disguise--dressed to appear as utility workers or construction workers or delivery men, etc-- Housekeeper (VF) was home w/ Philip. Housekeeper answered the door and they pushed past her into the house, leaving no sign of a forced entry. They quickly subdued/tied up VF and PS, forced VF to call AS and tell her there was some emergency w Philip. AS rushes home in the Porsche (which is why it was reportedly seen speeding Wed afternoon). AS returns, DW subdues her, forces her to call SS and get him home ASAP, he receives call while at dojo in Chantilly, goes home earlier than planned, telling other housekeeper (NG) that AS needs him to watch Philip because AS is going out Wed night. SS returns home and finds AS, PS and VF bound, being threatened, he doesn't attempt to fight off DW/accomplice for fear of them hurting the others if he resists them. The whole ordeal plays out over Wed. night and Thurs morning, with SS desperately and repeatedly attempting to get DW/accomplice what they want ($$, valuables). They use threats/torture of PS, AS, VF to compel/force SS to make all these calls in attempts to get as much $$ as possible together, they also ask him who might be showing up at the house Thurs. who could potentially interrupt/interfere with the $$ drop so that is why SS is allowed/forced to call NG and tell her not to come Thurs. SS tries til the end to get them more and more $$ but he is not able to get more than the 40k delivered and DW/accomplice are upset that they can't get more out of him and possibly feel that they need to wrap the whole thing up and get out of there finally (perhaps having VF's husband come by the house spurs them to get out faster as well) so, being the psychopaths and hateful, worthless people that they are, they murder everyone and set the house on fire. DW drives off in the Porsche, i wonder if he was anticipating that he might get caught even sooner than he did, maybe even that he'd be caught while driving the Porsche and he thought that would be a dramatic way to go out. The accomplice(s) either take off in another vehicle (someone--I'm guessing a woman--picked any accomplice(s) of DW's up in a different car). They all meet back up afterward in MD and go and immediately spend their cash on whatever...drugs, strip club, prostitutes, something not easily traced...the end?

Late on this but I think you've nailed it. They may also have hidden some of the money.

I think this is exactly what happened.

It is doubtful that the murders were committed because the criminals were "upset" about not getting more money. Do you think if SS had gotten $200k delivered that they criminals would have just said, "thanks, we're going to leave now, please don't tell anyone about this"?

The end result (murder) was probably inevitable from the outset, as it was the strategic move that made the most sense for the criminals given that the victims almost certainly knew their faces/voices/build, if not their actual identities. I'm sure that they expected that they would get away with it (and perhaps they would have if not for the mistake when eating the pizza).

I am the poster of the long detailed account above. Yeah, you are right, I think they would have murdered everyone regardless of how much $$ they got. I guess I was thinking of it from the perspective of the S family, thinking maybe, possibly if they raised more $$, their lives might be spared. Like another PP, I just keep thinking about this crime over and over in my head and all the missed opportunities and what ifs...so I guess that was my 'what if they had been able to get more $$ together,' but you are right. Realistically, I'm sure the end result of murder (and even of the fire as a cover up) was inevitable and what the perps planned all along

I agree they did plan all along to murder everyone but, even from the criminal perspective, why oh why did they have to torture/murder that poor child? SS would have done anything to get them the $$ without them torturing his child, don't you think? And wouldn't the mere threat of torture/hurting the child be enough to make him go as fast as he could w/ getting the $$? And, really, they didn't need to involve the child at all in any of it. They could have tied him up somewhere away from the rest/out of the way and I think they still could have (if not for the pizza) gotten away with this crime and wouldn't have had to worry too much about the child being able to ID them...I doubt most kids would really be able to ID someone in a situation like this...just so unimaginably awful that they did any of this, but especially the parts involving the child

Speaks volumes about the perpetrator, doesn't it?

[Anonymous]

Awful, awful awful people. So much entitlement in our society, so little sense of what we owe to others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree they did plan all along to murder everyone but, even from the criminal perspective, why oh why did they have to torture/murder that poor child? SS would have done anything to get them the $$ without them torturing his child, don't you think? And wouldn't the mere threat of torture/hurting the child be enough to make him go as fast as he could w/ getting the $$? And, really, they didn't need to involve the child at all in any of it. They could have tied him up somewhere away from the rest/out of the way and I think they still could have (if not for the pizza) gotten away with this crime and wouldn't have had to worry too much about the child being able to ID them...I doubt most kids would really be able to ID someone in a situation like this...just so unimaginably awful that they did any of this, but especially the parts involving the child

Speaks volumes about the perpetrator, doesn't it?

Their odds of ultimately getting caught increase if they don't burn the house at the end. So now you're adding the layer where they're going to escort the kid with them after the murders (again, without him identifying relevant facts about them) and drop him off somewhere, all the while not decreasing their chances of getting away from the crime scene without being identified? Come on, now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Awful, awful awful people. So much entitlement in our society, so little sense of what we owe to others.

You have no idea. Nothing can make everyday people act out like the rich. It's ugly. I am actually surprised this doesn't happen more often, as warped as it is. I'm surprised people don't "crack" at the rich more often. It happens in subtle ways every day, but there is no excuse for this. None. People need to get a grip, and they need to start being accountable for their own selves, instead of trying to mind what other people are doing or earning, etc. I'm no more entitled to your piece of the pie than the next guy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in DC, if I did, (and you all represent a group who could do something) I would be pressing my policy and prosecutor on why the five found with Wint are not being held on aiding and abetting. This is outrageous. How are people to feel safe?

First of all, the police were executing a warrant for the arrest of DW. There was no warrant drawn up on the others, so there would be no immediately reason to arrest them.

Once the others were found with him, the issue becomes, first, whether you have probably cause of a criminal offense on any of them. If so, you can obtain arrest warrants while they're in custody, but this means you start the clock on the presentment process, etc.

By not charging them (and potentially releasing them), you can continue to monitor them (which you can be assured is happening) while you collect more evidence. This also allows the suspects to continue taking actions which help you connect the web of contacts, etc. You can also conduct voluntary interviews with them (if they consent), which allows you to obtain impeachable statements.

Ultimately, I'd be very surprised if some of these individuals aren't charged, but it may take some time to build up evidence against them, and you can rest assured they are under a tight watch.

By the way, the prosecutor here is the U.S. Attorney's Office, so this is not some dumb local prosecutor with no sophistication.

This +100000 Prosecutors here actually know wtf they are doing. It's nothing like a state prosecution.

True. Federal prosecutors (at US government expense) are one of the benefits of being a federal city. This is why I scratch my head when the DC statehood types want to create a local prosecutor's office to replace the US attorney for local crimes. If that happened, not only would quality suffer (and local politics likely interfere in prosecutorial decisions), but DC taxpayers would bear a significant additional cost.

[Anonymous]

Couldn't they charge the hostage holding as kidnapping, which is a federal crime. With murder associated with the kidnapping, that would make the lowlife eligible for the death penalty.