Fire in upper NW?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I said it makes charges in play. It certainly is enough to detain and question them. In the charging documents, one of the women in the car said she was given a stack of cash by one of the men in the truck and went and purchased money orders. There was cash and money orders in both vehicles.

Oh, agreed that it's enough to detain and question them. In fact, do we have any reason to believe that didn't happen? However, you would never be able to prove a case without more than that, and a suspect has no obligation to talk, so if they simply declined to speak, there would be no basis to charge unless the police have more on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I read through all of this stuff, I think I am subconsciously hoping that I'm going to find the loophole, revise something, and it turns out that the 4 of them escape. Some different phone call. Some random stroke of good luck. Does anyone else find themselves reading and hoping they can somehow revise the ending?

No, that's not realistic or productive, honestly.

[Anonymous]

What happens now with the two daughters? Where will they live, who will take care of them, how will their school be paid? I believe there are relatives in Florida, perhaps they'd move down there? Just so heartbreaking for them. I pray they'll be able to move onward and get the help they need, emotionally, spiritually, monetarily. I couldn't imagine being in their shoes. Those poor girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:now that he has been caught and arrested along with his brother and several other people, is it reasonable to assume that he had accomplices? I am thinking he and his brothers were the ones actually in the house/who committed the kidnapping, extortion, torture, murder, arson, robbery and then there was someone else (I am guessing one of the women, for no particular reason just a hunch since women are generally seen as less threatening than men) who drove the suspects to the S house or was somehow involved in helping the other suspect(s) (the one(s) who did not take the Porsche) get away from the scene.

Here is what I think happened (no revelations here, just what seems to me to be pretty obvious based on what we know): DW and/or his brother went up to the door Wed afternoon, possibly wearing some type of uniform/disguise--dressed to appear as utility workers or construction workers or delivery men, etc-- Housekeeper (VF) was home w/ Philip. Housekeeper answered the door and they pushed past her into the house, leaving no sign of a forced entry. They quickly subdued/tied up VF and PS, forced VF to call AS and tell her there was some emergency w Philip. AS rushes home in the Porsche (which is why it was reportedly seen speeding Wed afternoon). AS returns, DW subdues her, forces her to call SS and get him home ASAP, he receives call while at dojo in Chantilly, goes home earlier than planned, telling other housekeeper (NG) that AS needs him to watch Philip because AS is going out Wed night. SS returns home and finds AS, PS and VF bound, being threatened, he doesn't attempt to fight off DW/accomplice for fear of them hurting the others if he resists them. The whole ordeal plays out over Wed. night and Thurs morning, with SS desperately and repeatedly attempting to get DW/accomplice what they want ($$, valuables). They use threats/torture of PS, AS, VF to compel/force SS to make all these calls in attempts to get as much $$ as possible together, they also ask him who might be showing up at the house Thurs. who could potentially interrupt/interfere with the $$ drop so that is why SS is allowed/forced to call NG and tell her not to come Thurs. SS tries til the end to get them more and more $$ but he is not able to get more than the 40k delivered and DW/accomplice are upset that they can't get more out of him and possibly feel that they need to wrap the whole thing up and get out of there finally (perhaps having VF's husband come by the house spurs them to get out faster as well) so, being the psychopaths and hateful, worthless people that they are, they murder everyone and set the house on fire. DW drives off in the Porsche, i wonder if he was anticipating that he might get caught even sooner than he did, maybe even that he'd be caught while driving the Porsche and he thought that would be a dramatic way to go out. The accomplice(s) either take off in another vehicle (someone--I'm guessing a woman--picked any accomplice(s) of DW's up in a different car). They all meet back up afterward in MD and go and immediately spend their cash on whatever...drugs, strip club, prostitutes, something not easily traced...the end?

Late on this but I think you've nailed it. They may also have hidden some of the money.

I think this is exactly what happened.

It is doubtful that the murders were committed because the criminals were "upset" about not getting more money. Do you think if SS had gotten $200k delivered that they criminals would have just said, "thanks, we're going to leave now, please don't tell anyone about this"?

The end result (murder) was probably inevitable from the outset, as it was the strategic move that made the most sense for the criminals given that the victims almost certainly knew their faces/voices/build, if not their actual identities. I'm sure that they expected that they would get away with it (and perhaps they would have if not for the mistake when eating the pizza).

I am the poster of the long detailed account above. Yeah, you are right, I think they would have murdered everyone regardless of how much $$ they got. I guess I was thinking of it from the perspective of the S family, thinking maybe, possibly if they raised more $$, their lives might be spared. Like another PP, I just keep thinking about this crime over and over in my head and all the missed opportunities and what ifs...so I guess that was my 'what if they had been able to get more $$ together,' but you are right. Realistically, I'm sure the end result of murder (and even of the fire as a cover up) was inevitable and what the perps planned all along

I agree they did plan all along to murder everyone but, even from the criminal perspective, why oh why did they have to torture/murder that poor child? SS would have done anything to get them the $$ without them torturing his child, don't you think? And wouldn't the mere threat of torture/hurting the child be enough to make him go as fast as he could w/ getting the $$? And, really, they didn't need to involve the child at all in any of it. They could have tied him up somewhere away from the rest/out of the way and I think they still could have (if not for the pizza) gotten away with this crime and wouldn't have had to worry too much about the child being able to ID them...I doubt most kids would really be able to ID someone in a situation like this...just so unimaginably awful that they did any of this, but especially the parts involving the child

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is when I'd really like to have the ancient practice of "an eye for an eye" back on the books. Karma. Hope this bastard rots in hell, and has a miserable life of being in fear and pain before it's his time to go. And any others that were involved as well. Good riddance.

What, like the Islamic state, and sharia law? No thanks.

Yes, and I'd gladly be the first in line to douse them with gasoline and light the first match up. In a heartbeat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is doubtful that the murders were committed because the criminals were "upset" about not getting more money. Do you think if SS had gotten $200k delivered that they criminals would have just said, "thanks, we're going to leave now, please don't tell anyone about this"?

The end result (murder) was probably inevitable from the outset, as it was the strategic move that made the most sense for the criminals given that the victims almost certainly knew their faces/voices/build, if not their actual identities. I'm sure that they expected that they would get away with it (and perhaps they would have if not for the mistake when eating the pizza).

I am the poster of the long detailed account above. Yeah, you are right, I think they would have murdered everyone regardless of how much $$ they got. I guess I was thinking of it from the perspective of the S family, thinking maybe, possibly if they raised more $$, their lives might be spared. Like another PP, I just keep thinking about this crime over and over in my head and all the missed opportunities and what ifs...so I guess that was my 'what if they had been able to get more $$ together,' but you are right. Realistically, I'm sure the end result of murder (and even of the fire as a cover up) was inevitable and what the perps planned all along

Yes - one of the tragic aspects here is that I can imagine SS contemplating how this situation could be resolved without him and his family being killed, but realizing that there was no such path. If he doesn't cooperate, they get murdered. If he gives them what they want, they get murdered. If you are in a home invasion situation and you are going to be able to identify the assailant(s), it is difficult to think of a logical way that you could talk the assailant(s) into a course of action that doesn't end with you being murdered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am depressed over this case. I truly am heartbroken. I can't sleep at night. I wish I didn't listen to the Voicemail. The little boys voice rings in my ear every second.

I dont don't think it was the boy. It sounded like someone gagged or taped trying to scream "help me!" Probably the mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree they did plan all along to murder everyone but, even from the criminal perspective, why oh why did they have to torture/murder that poor child? SS would have done anything to get them the $$ without them torturing his child, don't you think? And wouldn't the mere threat of torture/hurting the child be enough to make him go as fast as he could w/ getting the $$? And, really, they didn't need to involve the child at all in any of it. They could have tied him up somewhere away from the rest/out of the way and I think they still could have (if not for the pizza) gotten away with this crime and wouldn't have had to worry too much about the child being able to ID them...I doubt most kids would really be able to ID someone in a situation like this...just so unimaginably awful that they did any of this, but especially the parts involving the child

We don't know that the child was tortured. For all we know, the child was restrained but not physically harmed until the last moments when the murders were committed.

Second, a 10 year old who had spent hours with the suspects would know many valuable facts. He knows their sex, race, general build. He knows how many of them there were, etc. Remember, before the surveillance video came out people were speculating this was a Mafia hit. From the perspective of the murderers, their odds of escaping capture were much better killing all four of them (and anyone else who had the misfortune of stumbling into this). That's simple logic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am depressed over this case. I truly am heartbroken. I can't sleep at night. I wish I didn't listen to the Voicemail. The little boys voice rings in my ear every second.

I dont don't think it was the boy. It sounded like someone gagged or taped trying to scream "help me!" Probably the mom.

I am depressed about it too, PP. It is just so unspeakably awful and chilling, it has been on my mind a lot. I kind of wish I never started reading about it and I certainly wish I had never clicked on this thread. I am SO glad I didn't listen to the voicemail, no matter what was on it but particularly if it really was the little boy's voice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And where the hell is the $30,000.00.

I read somewhere that they bought money orders, which were also found in the truck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is doubtful that the murders were committed because the criminals were "upset" about not getting more money. Do you think if SS had gotten $200k delivered that they criminals would have just said, "thanks, we're going to leave now, please don't tell anyone about this"?

The end result (murder) was probably inevitable from the outset, as it was the strategic move that made the most sense for the criminals given that the victims almost certainly knew their faces/voices/build, if not their actual identities. I'm sure that they expected that they would get away with it (and perhaps they would have if not for the mistake when eating the pizza).

I am the poster of the long detailed account above. Yeah, you are right, I think they would have murdered everyone regardless of how much $$ they got. I guess I was thinking of it from the perspective of the S family, thinking maybe, possibly if they raised more $$, their lives might be spared. Like another PP, I just keep thinking about this crime over and over in my head and all the missed opportunities and what ifs...so I guess that was my 'what if they had been able to get more $$ together,' but you are right. Realistically, I'm sure the end result of murder (and even of the fire as a cover up) was inevitable and what the perps planned all along

Yes - one of the tragic aspects here is that I can imagine SS contemplating how this situation could be resolved without him and his family being killed, but realizing that there was no such path. If he doesn't cooperate, they get murdered. If he gives them what they want, they get murdered. If you are in a home invasion situation and you are going to be able to identify the assailant(s), it is difficult to think of a logical way that you could talk the assailant(s) into a course of action that doesn't end with you being murdered.

He probably hoped his bank, assistant, the employee at AIW who helped get the 40k in cash together would have thought something was up. Even if his business used large amounts of cash, the whole "dropping off" etc sounds fishy. Why didn't Savvas do it himself? The assistant sounds dumb as rocks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree they did plan all along to murder everyone but, even from the criminal perspective, why oh why did they have to torture/murder that poor child? SS would have done anything to get them the $$ without them torturing his child, don't you think? And wouldn't the mere threat of torture/hurting the child be enough to make him go as fast as he could w/ getting the $$? And, really, they didn't need to involve the child at all in any of it. They could have tied him up somewhere away from the rest/out of the way and I think they still could have (if not for the pizza) gotten away with this crime and wouldn't have had to worry too much about the child being able to ID them...I doubt most kids would really be able to ID someone in a situation like this...just so unimaginably awful that they did any of this, but especially the parts involving the child

We don't know that the child was tortured. For all we know, the child was restrained but not physically harmed until the last moments when the murders were committed.

Second, a 10 year old who had spent hours with the suspects would know many valuable facts. He knows their sex, race, general build. He knows how many of them there were, etc. Remember, before the surveillance video came out people were speculating this was a Mafia hit. From the perspective of the murderers, their odds of escaping capture were much better killing all four of them (and anyone else who had the misfortune of stumbling into this). That's simple logic.

True, we don't know for sure that he was tortured but it sure sounds like he was from the facts we do have. I can see why the murderers would think they had to kill everyone. BUT, I was saying they could have had 1 guy immediately upon entering the house and starting the hostage situation, while wearing a mask and gloves, etc., take the child away to some far corner of the house and tie him up/gag him whatever and leave him there, never interacting w/ him again for the whole time. I know that is not the top priority (obviously) for heartless murderers, I'm just saying they could have done something like this where the child didn't need to be hurt AND wouldn't have really been a liability to them either. That is all. I'll drop this topic now because I don't want to get off onto a long tangent of what ifs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree they did plan all along to murder everyone but, even from the criminal perspective, why oh why did they have to torture/murder that poor child? SS would have done anything to get them the $$ without them torturing his child, don't you think? And wouldn't the mere threat of torture/hurting the child be enough to make him go as fast as he could w/ getting the $$? And, really, they didn't need to involve the child at all in any of it. They could have tied him up somewhere away from the rest/out of the way and I think they still could have (if not for the pizza) gotten away with this crime and wouldn't have had to worry too much about the child being able to ID them...I doubt most kids would really be able to ID someone in a situation like this...just so unimaginably awful that they did any of this, but especially the parts involving the child

We don't know that the child was tortured. For all we know, the child was restrained but not physically harmed until the last moments when the murders were committed.

Second, a 10 year old who had spent hours with the suspects would know many valuable facts. He knows their sex, race, general build. He knows how many of them there were, etc. Remember, before the surveillance video came out people were speculating this was a Mafia hit. From the perspective of the murderers, their odds of escaping capture were much better killing all four of them (and anyone else who had the misfortune of stumbling into this). That's simple logic.

Only stupid people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:18:37. Love this post. Keep doing the great work you are doing. If it is not you, you clearly know enough to let us know that the US Attorney's office is doing great work, and I feel reassured that we are in good hands.

It's idiotic that you think:
-that someone involved in this case is posting on dcum right now
-that the US atty's office doesn't know exactly what they are doing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree they did plan all along to murder everyone but, even from the criminal perspective, why oh why did they have to torture/murder that poor child? SS would have done anything to get them the $$ without them torturing his child, don't you think? And wouldn't the mere threat of torture/hurting the child be enough to make him go as fast as he could w/ getting the $$? And, really, they didn't need to involve the child at all in any of it. They could have tied him up somewhere away from the rest/out of the way and I think they still could have (if not for the pizza) gotten away with this crime and wouldn't have had to worry too much about the child being able to ID them...I doubt most kids would really be able to ID someone in a situation like this...just so unimaginably awful that they did any of this, but especially the parts involving the child

We don't know that the child was tortured. For all we know, the child was restrained but not physically harmed until the last moments when the murders were committed.

Second, a 10 year old who had spent hours with the suspects would know many valuable facts. He knows their sex, race, general build. He knows how many of them there were, etc. Remember, before the surveillance video came out people were speculating this was a Mafia hit. From the perspective of the murderers, their odds of escaping capture were much better killing all four of them (and anyone else who had the misfortune of stumbling into this). That's simple logic.

True, we don't know for sure that he was tortured but it sure sounds like he was from the facts we do have. I can see why the murderers would think they had to kill everyone. BUT, I was saying they could have had 1 guy immediately upon entering the house and starting the hostage situation, while wearing a mask and gloves, etc., take the child away to some far corner of the house and tie him up/gag him whatever and leave him there, never interacting w/ him again for the whole time. I know that is not the top priority (obviously) for heartless murderers, I'm just saying they could have done something like this where the child didn't need to be hurt AND wouldn't have really been a liability to them either. That is all. I'll drop this topic now because I don't want to get off onto a long tangent of what ifs

We can drop it with this... but my theory is that they were not masked when they first entered the house. Instead, they used a ruse to gain voluntary entry. Second, when you are holding people hostage for 15+ hours, it's tough to do what you're suggesting in practice (isolating a hostage in a way in which he'd have no relevant knowledge for police). When they first got there, it was probably just the child and the nanny anyway. In the mind of a criminal like this, the child is collateral damage.