Annoying things people make their whole personality

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women who think being a doctor's wife makes THEM a doctor/expert on healthcare/how hospitals operate.

Similarly women who gave up biglaw as an associate bc they couldn't handle it and their biglaw boyfriend proposed and then when biglaw husband makes partner, THEY feel they made partner; uh sweetie congrats to your man, but YOU are not a partner at this firm, so we don't need YOUR opinion on how things should be done.

Wow that one sounds personal, Susan.

DP and actually I have encountered this as well, specifically the former biglaw associate who talks about her DH's career as if it's her own. It is especially annoying when you are at the same firm as the husband and the wife talks to you like a colleague when she doesn't actually know what you do and you've never worked together, and she actually has not worked as a lawyer (or potentially at all) in many years.

I think women like this feel guilty or insecure about the fact that from the outside, it really seems like they went to law school and then worked for a couple years at a big firm to find a highly paid spouse, and then quit as soon as she'd locked him down. I don't actually care even if this was their plan all along (law school, the bar, and working at a biglaw firm are not easy, so if you want to use them to nab the husband you want, more power to you) but their need to act like they themselves are firm partners or that they are intimately familiar with your work when they couldn't possibly be is really grating.

+100.

Former BigLaw junior associate here who has happily dissociated from the field and married someone in an unrelated one. Here’s the thing, for some of us it wasn’t just hard, it was impossible because of the nonstop sexual harassment. Imagine succeeding with male partners and senior associates making constant sexual innuendos and outright passes. Imagine being penalized for rejecting said behaviors and imagine having some of the women partners and senior associates penalizing you, too, for being young and pretty.

Having gone through all of that, I appreciate why some of these women left the field, but relish in their husbands’ careers. They feel like that’s the closest they could get. And it is, but not for reasons of merit.

You have this so backwards.

When a woman who is married to a BigLaw partner talks to me, her husbands peer, as though she and I are professionally the same, she is contributing to the culture of devaluing women in this industry. I worked very hard to get to where I am and dealt with all the same BS that these women like you who left as juniors did, and then some. But I stuck it out and now I am in a position that you only get to if you work very hard for a long time.

When the wives of some of my colleagues, who may have spent 2-3 years as a junior associate at our firm or another firm, speak to me as though we are professional peers or they have intimate knowledge of my firm or my career, they are just contributing to the culture you are complaining about. Because I EARNED my position. I wish for them happiness in whatever life they have chosen for themselves, but being married to a BigLaw partner does not entitle you to act like you are one. My husband would never, for instance. This is all about their insecurity and trying to use their DH's position and status to assert themselves. It's retrograde and toxic.

How did you EARN your position? I ask this because I got taken off any matters when I didn’t return sexual favors. What did you do? How did you manage to stay assigned on a matter after rejecting a partner? Teach me, seriously, I’d love to know.

I earned it by doing my job diligently for 10 years, working on progressively more difficult matters, delivering good work product and having a good attitude, cultivating strong relationships in the firm and with the client.

Never once in my 14 year legal career have I been sexually propositioned by a superior, and certainly my ability to work on projects was never premised on "sexual favors." I am very sorry that happened to you but that doesn't reflect my experience at all.

I do think BigLaw can be really unfriendly to women, but I think that has more to do with how hard it is to be a mom in BigLaw, and the way you are penalized for taking any time off or for not working long hours 100% of the time. I was somewhat fortunate in that I had my babies as a counsel, which for me was a stop on the way to partner that actually afforded me a bit more flexility with my work and also allowed me to delegate some work during my maternity leaves without being taken off projects. But I was exceedingly fortunate in this timing and many women aren't. That's the biggest reason I know that many of my peers didn't stick it out for partner (well that and deciding that BigLaw just wasn't for them, which happens all the time).

I don't know anyone who was sexually harassed the way you describe and if I had, I would have joined them in reporting this up. At the moment, both my practice head and division chief are women, so I feel confident that behavior like that would be taken seriously at my firm.

This is from a few pages back, but as a former BigLaw associate I wanted to comment. I also tire of the women who “wear their husbands rank,” though I generally see it with women who were never particularly professionally ambitious, but rather were attractive women who married well, so to speak.

But I also take issue with the PP who thinks she got to partnership all on her own merit. Most people who can get a BigLaw job are capable of being partners. It’s deeply unfair of you not to acknowledge that who gets to the top isn’t always just based on merit. Maybe you remind someone of their kid. Went to the same law school, etc. Not saying you didn’t work very hard, but it’s disingenuous of you to think women who don’t make it to the top were just lazy, not talented, or out for a sugar daddy. My story? When I started expressing interest in partnership as a mid-level, I kept getting questions about what my husband did for a living. You can guess the end - I was managed out, the women who made it often had SAH spouses, were single, or were married to partners with way more low key jobs. Funny how the women married to say a surgeon or private equity partner just weren’t talented enough to make it there.

Just something for you to consider.

[Anonymous]

People who are “easily triggered.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow... so many things..what do people talk about then?

Literally anything. Just don't define your entire personality by it.

what does that mean? Like, that's the only thing you talk about?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow... so many things..what do people talk about then?

Literally anything. Just don't define your entire personality by it.

what does that mean? Like, that's the only thing you talk about?

Yes, that’s the point of the entire thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:wow... so many things..what do people talk about then?

As a reminder, having an interest or hobby and talking about it does not mean you have made it your personality. There are lots of things on this thread you might enjoy or do but aren’t who you are

[Anonymous]

People who constantly talk about their “mental health.”

[Anonymous]

Their “trauma”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wow... so many things..what do people talk about then?

Literally anything. Just don't define your entire personality by it.

what does that mean? Like, that's the only thing you talk about?

The fact that you are asking this question and don't seem to understand the very straightforward answer indicates to me that you feel called out by the thread and could maybe stand to address that. Have people in your life told you things like "I need a break from this subject right now" or "it really seems like you only care about X to the exclusion of everything else"? These are signs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women who think being a doctor's wife makes THEM a doctor/expert on healthcare/how hospitals operate.

Similarly women who gave up biglaw as an associate bc they couldn't handle it and their biglaw boyfriend proposed and then when biglaw husband makes partner, THEY feel they made partner; uh sweetie congrats to your man, but YOU are not a partner at this firm, so we don't need YOUR opinion on how things should be done.

Wow that one sounds personal, Susan.

DP and actually I have encountered this as well, specifically the former biglaw associate who talks about her DH's career as if it's her own. It is especially annoying when you are at the same firm as the husband and the wife talks to you like a colleague when she doesn't actually know what you do and you've never worked together, and she actually has not worked as a lawyer (or potentially at all) in many years.

I think women like this feel guilty or insecure about the fact that from the outside, it really seems like they went to law school and then worked for a couple years at a big firm to find a highly paid spouse, and then quit as soon as she'd locked him down. I don't actually care even if this was their plan all along (law school, the bar, and working at a biglaw firm are not easy, so if you want to use them to nab the husband you want, more power to you) but their need to act like they themselves are firm partners or that they are intimately familiar with your work when they couldn't possibly be is really grating.

+100.

Former BigLaw junior associate here who has happily dissociated from the field and married someone in an unrelated one. Here’s the thing, for some of us it wasn’t just hard, it was impossible because of the nonstop sexual harassment. Imagine succeeding with male partners and senior associates making constant sexual innuendos and outright passes. Imagine being penalized for rejecting said behaviors and imagine having some of the women partners and senior associates penalizing you, too, for being young and pretty.

Having gone through all of that, I appreciate why some of these women left the field, but relish in their husbands’ careers. They feel like that’s the closest they could get. And it is, but not for reasons of merit.

You have this so backwards.

When a woman who is married to a BigLaw partner talks to me, her husbands peer, as though she and I are professionally the same, she is contributing to the culture of devaluing women in this industry. I worked very hard to get to where I am and dealt with all the same BS that these women like you who left as juniors did, and then some. But I stuck it out and now I am in a position that you only get to if you work very hard for a long time.

When the wives of some of my colleagues, who may have spent 2-3 years as a junior associate at our firm or another firm, speak to me as though we are professional peers or they have intimate knowledge of my firm or my career, they are just contributing to the culture you are complaining about. Because I EARNED my position. I wish for them happiness in whatever life they have chosen for themselves, but being married to a BigLaw partner does not entitle you to act like you are one. My husband would never, for instance. This is all about their insecurity and trying to use their DH's position and status to assert themselves. It's retrograde and toxic.

How did you EARN your position? I ask this because I got taken off any matters when I didn’t return sexual favors. What did you do? How did you manage to stay assigned on a matter after rejecting a partner? Teach me, seriously, I’d love to know.

I earned it by doing my job diligently for 10 years, working on progressively more difficult matters, delivering good work product and having a good attitude, cultivating strong relationships in the firm and with the client.

Never once in my 14 year legal career have I been sexually propositioned by a superior, and certainly my ability to work on projects was never premised on "sexual favors." I am very sorry that happened to you but that doesn't reflect my experience at all.

I do think BigLaw can be really unfriendly to women, but I think that has more to do with how hard it is to be a mom in BigLaw, and the way you are penalized for taking any time off or for not working long hours 100% of the time. I was somewhat fortunate in that I had my babies as a counsel, which for me was a stop on the way to partner that actually afforded me a bit more flexility with my work and also allowed me to delegate some work during my maternity leaves without being taken off projects. But I was exceedingly fortunate in this timing and many women aren't. That's the biggest reason I know that many of my peers didn't stick it out for partner (well that and deciding that BigLaw just wasn't for them, which happens all the time).

I don't know anyone who was sexually harassed the way you describe and if I had, I would have joined them in reporting this up. At the moment, both my practice head and division chief are women, so I feel confident that behavior like that would be taken seriously at my firm.

This is from a few pages back, but as a former BigLaw associate I wanted to comment. I also tire of the women who “wear their husbands rank,” though I generally see it with women who were never particularly professionally ambitious, but rather were attractive women who married well, so to speak.

But I also take issue with the PP who thinks she got to partnership all on her own merit. Most people who can get a BigLaw job are capable of being partners. It’s deeply unfair of you not to acknowledge that who gets to the top isn’t always just based on merit. Maybe you remind someone of their kid. Went to the same law school, etc. Not saying you didn’t work very hard, but it’s disingenuous of you to think women who don’t make it to the top were just lazy, not talented, or out for a sugar daddy. My story? When I started expressing interest in partnership as a mid-level, I kept getting questions about what my husband did for a living. You can guess the end - I was managed out, the women who made it often had SAH spouses, were single, or were married to partners with way more low key jobs. Funny how the women married to say a surgeon or private equity partner just weren’t talented enough to make it there.

Just something for you to consider.

Did you read my post? I never said other people don't work hard or that people who don't make partners must not have earned it. In fact I explicitly point out that I got very fortunate with the timing of my pregnancies regarding my career and have friends who didn't get fortunate in this way and therefore were not able to reach partnership. Maybe before you lecture me, try reading for comprehension.

But I do take issue with the statement that "Most people who can get a BigLaw job are capable of being partners." That's just flatly untrue. I've worked with a lot of associates who were very clearly NOT cut out for BigLaw partnership. To their credit, most of them knew it -- many were just in it to pay down loans and planned from the beginning to bail by year 4 or 5 for a fed job or something in house. There were a few who didn't have this self-awareness though, and that can be painful. It's not for everyone. The time commitment and the level of dedication to clients required are very high. It is hard on families and without support, can ruin marriages (seen it happen) or really screw up kids. Also, to become a BigLaw partner, you have to eat a lot of $hit. Cancelled vacations or working through vacations, being in the line of fire with nightmare clients who are never happy, putting in the hours necessary to meet billable targets, plus learning to build your own book and discovering that you have to do this "on the side" while still hitting your billables and putting in the required FaceTime.

Sorry, but it's possible you just were not cut out for it. Also possible you got unlucky. Though honestly, the people I know who were really determined to make partner but ran into the kinds of obstacles you did? They lateralled to other firms and made it work. If you are good and have the chops, someone in this industry will want you on their team. It sounds to me like you were waiting for your firm to anoint you and it didn't happen, so you gave up.

[Anonymous]

Being a swiftie

Liking Disney world

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women who think being a doctor's wife makes THEM a doctor/expert on healthcare/how hospitals operate.

Similarly women who gave up biglaw as an associate bc they couldn't handle it and their biglaw boyfriend proposed and then when biglaw husband makes partner, THEY feel they made partner; uh sweetie congrats to your man, but YOU are not a partner at this firm, so we don't need YOUR opinion on how things should be done.

Wow that one sounds personal, Susan.

DP and actually I have encountered this as well, specifically the former biglaw associate who talks about her DH's career as if it's her own. It is especially annoying when you are at the same firm as the husband and the wife talks to you like a colleague when she doesn't actually know what you do and you've never worked together, and she actually has not worked as a lawyer (or potentially at all) in many years.

I think women like this feel guilty or insecure about the fact that from the outside, it really seems like they went to law school and then worked for a couple years at a big firm to find a highly paid spouse, and then quit as soon as she'd locked him down. I don't actually care even if this was their plan all along (law school, the bar, and working at a biglaw firm are not easy, so if you want to use them to nab the husband you want, more power to you) but their need to act like they themselves are firm partners or that they are intimately familiar with your work when they couldn't possibly be is really grating.

I'm curious what exactly these women say? How do they make it sound like she's talking about her husband's career (or yours) as though it's her own?

[Anonymous]

People who start their own charity/speaking tour/write a book based upon one traumatic experience even though there are established organizations, resources and expert help immediately available. The self-proclaimed expert now directs everyone on how to proceed the right way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women who think being a doctor's wife makes THEM a doctor/expert on healthcare/how hospitals operate.

Similarly women who gave up biglaw as an associate bc they couldn't handle it and their biglaw boyfriend proposed and then when biglaw husband makes partner, THEY feel they made partner; uh sweetie congrats to your man, but YOU are not a partner at this firm, so we don't need YOUR opinion on how things should be done.

Wow that one sounds personal, Susan.

DP and actually I have encountered this as well, specifically the former biglaw associate who talks about her DH's career as if it's her own. It is especially annoying when you are at the same firm as the husband and the wife talks to you like a colleague when she doesn't actually know what you do and you've never worked together, and she actually has not worked as a lawyer (or potentially at all) in many years.

I think women like this feel guilty or insecure about the fact that from the outside, it really seems like they went to law school and then worked for a couple years at a big firm to find a highly paid spouse, and then quit as soon as she'd locked him down. I don't actually care even if this was their plan all along (law school, the bar, and working at a biglaw firm are not easy, so if you want to use them to nab the husband you want, more power to you) but their need to act like they themselves are firm partners or that they are intimately familiar with your work when they couldn't possibly be is really grating.

I'm curious what exactly these women say? How do they make it sound like she's talking about her husband's career (or yours) as though it's her own?

Different field but a friend married to a doc said a lot of the other GFs and wives said stuff like “our residency” “our fellowship placement” etc.

I guess someway valid to frame that way bc if it requires a move it really is a whole family thing! (But annoying if it’s part of a larger trend of whole personality being wife of XX).

[Anonymous]

Peloton based exercisers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People who start their own charity/speaking tour/write a book based upon one traumatic experience even though there are established organizations, resources and expert help immediately available. The self-proclaimed expert now directs everyone on how to proceed the right way.

+100