Arlington Missing Middle Housing Q&A

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I sincerely hope hope the MM passes.

It’s exactly what SFH’s in N Arl deserve for creating a Democrat stranglehold on everything. This is what they voted for, this is what they created, and it’s amazingly awesome to watch all the phony liberals freak out over MM 😂😂

MM++ -- I am a SFH owner in N Arlington and support MM. Requiring SFH zoning has been shown to be historically racist. Let's fix that.

+1

I'd like to see more restrictions on new construction in general re: parking, trees, lot coverage, but that's not specific to MM. I'm good with MM itself.

-SFH owner in $$$ neighborhood

Let me tell you how this goes. First they pass the MM initiative so there's no restriction on multi-family housing. Next they have some kind of "opportunity" for affordable housing. Maybe a church is being redeveloped or someone donates some land, who knows. From there, it's a fairly easy process for them to allow bonus density, extra height, etc. because we "need the housing." All of the sudden there's an approved project that covers the entire lot and is twice as high as the zoning would otherwise allow.

Wouldn't happen? They did it in my neighborhood, they will do it in yours.

So you admit, that the fear is that undesirable not rich people will move in. And not only one or two of the, but a like 10 or more. The horror!
What happened to everyone is welcome here?

The problem is infrastructure. Schools, parks, sewer systems, parking, etc. Adding more people makes quality of life worse for people already here. The underlying assumption of increased density is that we should all just be fine with it and sacrifice for the cause.

The underlying principle for my support of MM is that people have to live somewhere and density is greener than sprawl. I care about what sort of planet I'm leaving for my children. People who think sprawl is A+++ total excellence can move out beyond the Beltway to enjoy big houses and big commutes.

Density is what makes Arlington desirable. With density comes shopping and restaurants. People want the best of both worlds — the walkability and urban amenities from a dense community — and the open space of a suburb.

People don’t want unlimited density. That’s why so many people move from DC to Arlington. Is it really that difficult to understand?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I sincerely hope hope the MM passes.

It’s exactly what SFH’s in N Arl deserve for creating a Democrat stranglehold on everything. This is what they voted for, this is what they created, and it’s amazingly awesome to watch all the phony liberals freak out over MM 😂😂

MM++ -- I am a SFH owner in N Arlington and support MM. Requiring SFH zoning has been shown to be historically racist. Let's fix that.

+1

I'd like to see more restrictions on new construction in general re: parking, trees, lot coverage, but that's not specific to MM. I'm good with MM itself.

-SFH owner in $$$ neighborhood

Let me tell you how this goes. First they pass the MM initiative so there's no restriction on multi-family housing. Next they have some kind of "opportunity" for affordable housing. Maybe a church is being redeveloped or someone donates some land, who knows. From there, it's a fairly easy process for them to allow bonus density, extra height, etc. because we "need the housing." All of the sudden there's an approved project that covers the entire lot and is twice as high as the zoning would otherwise allow.

Wouldn't happen? They did it in my neighborhood, they will do it in yours.

So you admit, that the fear is that undesirable not rich people will move in. And not only one or two of the, but a like 10 or more. The horror!
What happened to everyone is welcome here?

The problem is infrastructure. Schools, parks, sewer systems, parking, etc. Adding more people makes quality of life worse for people already here. The underlying assumption of increased density is that we should all just be fine with it and sacrifice for the cause.

The underlying principle for my support of MM is that people have to live somewhere and density is greener than sprawl. I care about what sort of planet I'm leaving for my children. People who think sprawl is A+++ total excellence can move out beyond the Beltway to enjoy big houses and big commutes.

Density is what makes Arlington desirable. With density comes shopping and restaurants. People want the best of both worlds — the walkability and urban amenities from a dense community — and the open space of a suburb.

People don’t want unlimited density. That’s why so many people move from DC to Arlington. Is it really that difficult to understand?

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I sincerely hope hope the MM passes.

It’s exactly what SFH’s in N Arl deserve for creating a Democrat stranglehold on everything. This is what they voted for, this is what they created, and it’s amazingly awesome to watch all the phony liberals freak out over MM 😂😂

MM++ -- I am a SFH owner in N Arlington and support MM. Requiring SFH zoning has been shown to be historically racist. Let's fix that.

+1

I'd like to see more restrictions on new construction in general re: parking, trees, lot coverage, but that's not specific to MM. I'm good with MM itself.

-SFH owner in $$$ neighborhood

Let me tell you how this goes. First they pass the MM initiative so there's no restriction on multi-family housing. Next they have some kind of "opportunity" for affordable housing. Maybe a church is being redeveloped or someone donates some land, who knows. From there, it's a fairly easy process for them to allow bonus density, extra height, etc. because we "need the housing." All of the sudden there's an approved project that covers the entire lot and is twice as high as the zoning would otherwise allow.

Wouldn't happen? They did it in my neighborhood, they will do it in yours.

You can bet money on this scenario playing out if MM gets adopted. This is a Arl Co. Board initiative, not the residents of Arlington County asking for this.

[Anonymous]

I think a lot of residents have a problem with this because they see developers getting rich on the backs of this effort to add even more families into Arlington whereas meanwhile the schools are not set up to have the numbers they have.

In a way Arlington benefitted from the pandemic because the school overcrowding became less of a problem when so many kids went private.

But now the county is doubling down on density and attempting to add even more families and kids, whereas meanwhile there's no fourth high school, we don't have that much common land to build more elementary or middle schools. And builders are neither responsible for nor paying into county resources to fund the infrastructure required to support more families in Arlington. So this creates a bigger problem for schools but the schools won't get the support they need for it.

Maybe I can vote for Clement? I didn't think I could, but I might!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I sincerely hope hope the MM passes.

It’s exactly what SFH’s in N Arl deserve for creating a Democrat stranglehold on everything. This is what they voted for, this is what they created, and it’s amazingly awesome to watch all the phony liberals freak out over MM 😂😂

MM++ -- I am a SFH owner in N Arlington and support MM. Requiring SFH zoning has been shown to be historically racist. Let's fix that.

Too bad MMH isn’t fixing the racial disparity with home ownership in Arlington. That is just a strawman MMH proponents like to use. Again, this is simply about providing more million dollar homes.

Sadly, MMH will force out more POC who are renting in Halls Hill and Green Valley, two black communities. The others with lower incomes who live in market rate housing and CAFs will continue to be ghettoized by Arlington County in South Arlington and around Arlington BLvd.

The desirable poors — older people, disabled, and white — will be allowed into North Arlington’s CAFs and set asides

Meanwhile, Plan Langston BLvd woukd have provided 1,600 affordable units and 4,600 market rate units off Langston BLvd. Scared of that possibility in an election year, the ACB pushed aside PLB for MMH that will benefit people who can well affirm to live in Arlington, just not in the type of housing to which they feel entitled. MMH will do nothing to enhance racial diversity or affordability in Arlington.


That means if any builder will bother to build the housing.

Aren’t most of the original homeowners in Hall’s Hill and Green Valley POC? Why aren’t they allowed to build equity or cash out like all the original white homeowners elsewhere in Arlington?

Considering home sites were sold in the early 20h Century in both Halls Hills and Nauck (now Green Valley), I suspect there are no original homeowners in those two communities. Even if there were, I referred to renters in the two communities, not homeowners. Most of the rental properties are owned by old white families that bought properties after World War II when African Americans were able to move more readily to outlying areas that were more amenable to them than heavily segregated Arlington

Of course, the African American homeowners throughout Arlington can sell their properties and realized the economic gain they deserve. It is more likely that anything new built on the properties will be sold to whites who value Arlington more than African Americans. This will diminish the diversity of Arlington even more, except for the ghettoized parts of South Arlington that are more likely to be Hispanic or refugees from the Middle East, Africa, and Central America.

[Anonymous]

So here is a good read on MM from ArlNow: https://www.arlnow.com

I particular like this quote:

6. Against: Arlington should not be guinea pig for Missing Middle (Sun Gazette)

"I introduced myself to County Board Chair Katie Cristol at the end of the session, and was shocked when she told me that she wants to pass Missing Middle zoning changes because she wants Arlington to be the first county on the entire East Coast to introduce this ordinance. I couldn’t believe what she said. I don’t want Arlington to be guinea pig for an unproven idea. This is not a contest to see who is first. I am assuming the County Board Members are looking for this to be part of their résumés. Changing the zoning planning needs to be done in a methodical and responsible way."

So this is a Katie Cristol pet project that is being shoved down our throats? And she wants to be first on the East Coast to pass this when it has had terrible results elsewhere?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I sincerely hope hope the MM passes.

It’s exactly what SFH’s in N Arl deserve for creating a Democrat stranglehold on everything. This is what they voted for, this is what they created, and it’s amazingly awesome to watch all the phony liberals freak out over MM 😂😂

MM++ -- I am a SFH owner in N Arlington and support MM. Requiring SFH zoning has been shown to be historically racist. Let's fix that.

Too bad MMH isn’t fixing the racial disparity with home ownership in Arlington. That is just a strawman MMH proponents like to use. Again, this is simply about providing more million dollar homes.

Sadly, MMH will force out more POC who are renting in Halls Hill and Green Valley, two black communities. The others with lower incomes who live in market rate housing and CAFs will continue to be ghettoized by Arlington County in South Arlington and around Arlington BLvd.

The desirable poors — older people, disabled, and white — will be allowed into North Arlington’s CAFs and set asides

Meanwhile, Plan Langston BLvd woukd have provided 1,600 affordable units and 4,600 market rate units off Langston BLvd. Scared of that possibility in an election year, the ACB pushed aside PLB for MMH that will benefit people who can well affirm to live in Arlington, just not in the type of housing to which they feel entitled. MMH will do nothing to enhance racial diversity or affordability in Arlington.


That means if any builder will bother to build the housing.

Aren’t most of the original homeowners in Hall’s Hill and Green Valley POC? Why aren’t they allowed to build equity or cash out like all the original white homeowners elsewhere in Arlington?

Considering home sites were sold in the early 20h Century in both Halls Hills and Nauck (now Green Valley), I suspect there are no original homeowners in those two communities. Even if there were, I referred to renters in the two communities, not homeowners. Most of the rental properties are owned by old white families that bought properties after World War II when African Americans were able to move more readily to outlying areas that were more amenable to them than heavily segregated Arlington

Of course, the African American homeowners throughout Arlington can sell their properties and realized the economic gain they deserve. It is more likely that anything new built on the properties will be sold to whites who value Arlington more than African Americans. This will diminish the diversity of Arlington even more, except for the ghettoized parts of South Arlington that are more likely to be Hispanic or refugees from the Middle East, Africa, and Central America.

Green valley is already upzoned. So is a portion of Halls Hill. Feel free to move on to the next red herring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So this is a Katie Cristol pet project that is being shoved down our throats? And she wants to be first on the East Coast to pass this when it has had terrible results elsewhere?

There is nothing wrong with being involved in local politics to be set up for state or even national level

The problem is when you start taking policy positions to advance those higher aspirations. IMO this has always been the problem with Cristol - its fine if County government is just a stepping stone, but you still have to give a shit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So this is a Katie Cristol pet project that is being shoved down our throats? And she wants to be first on the East Coast to pass this when it has had terrible results elsewhere?

There is nothing wrong with being involved in local politics to be set up for state or even national level

The problem is when you start taking policy positions to advance those higher aspirations. IMO this has always been the problem with Cristol - its fine if County government is just a stepping stone, but you still have to give a shit

Agreed. The Amazon deal, Barcroft/Columbia Pike deal, and MM are all to garner national attention - they are NOT for the people of Arlington County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I sincerely hope hope the MM passes.

It’s exactly what SFH’s in N Arl deserve for creating a Democrat stranglehold on everything. This is what they voted for, this is what they created, and it’s amazingly awesome to watch all the phony liberals freak out over MM 😂😂

MM++ -- I am a SFH owner in N Arlington and support MM. Requiring SFH zoning has been shown to be historically racist. Let's fix that.

+1

I'd like to see more restrictions on new construction in general re: parking, trees, lot coverage, but that's not specific to MM. I'm good with MM itself.

-SFH owner in $$$ neighborhood

Let me tell you how this goes. First they pass the MM initiative so there's no restriction on multi-family housing. Next they have some kind of "opportunity" for affordable housing. Maybe a church is being redeveloped or someone donates some land, who knows. From there, it's a fairly easy process for them to allow bonus density, extra height, etc. because we "need the housing." All of the sudden there's an approved project that covers the entire lot and is twice as high as the zoning would otherwise allow.

Wouldn't happen? They did it in my neighborhood, they will do it in yours.

So you admit, that the fear is that undesirable not rich people will move in. And not only one or two of the, but a like 10 or more. The horror!
What happened to everyone is welcome here?

The problem is infrastructure. Schools, parks, sewer systems, parking, etc. Adding more people makes quality of life worse for people already here. The underlying assumption of increased density is that we should all just be fine with it and sacrifice for the cause.

The underlying principle for my support of MM is that people have to live somewhere and density is greener than sprawl. I care about what sort of planet I'm leaving for my children. People who think sprawl is A+++ total excellence can move out beyond the Beltway to enjoy big houses and big commutes.

ARL doesn't have sprawl. It has older neighborhoods with small lot SFH and others mixed. Take a drive from Herndon [south of the town] through Chantilly, Cville, etc. Loo like ARL? No.

Here's a multifamily unit-paved over almost 100% of land. 3 units -[2 bedrooms each?] so ? https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/1227-N-Utah-St-22201/home/11244058

So if that pave over is allowed and clearly exists, I guess ARL could do a triplex and allow pave over on this https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/1005-N-Madison-St-22205/home/11240858

[Anonymous]

Haven’t read all the pages on this, but just scanned a Boston fed report on increased density - even they say increased density makes neighborhoods less valuable/perceived quality declines for homeowners.

https://www.bostonfed.org/news-and-events/news/2022/10/boston-fed-research-relaxing-density-restrictions-best-way-to-increase-multifamily-housing.aspx

“House prices would likely fall with rents if greater housing density is allowed
The authors find that zoning reform that relaxes density restrictions doesn’t just reduce rents. It also causes house prices to fall—including single-family house prices. Their analysis shows that allowing one more housing unit per acre in a Greater Boston neighborhood increases the number of units in that neighborhood by an average of 0.4. This increase results in the neighborhood’s rents dropping more than 5% and house prices falling more than 7% on average (see graphic). House prices drop because the housing supply increases. Or they fall because when a neighborhood becomes denser, its perceived quality declines.“

Obviously, Boston is bigger than Arlington so our supply may not make a difference to prices but the perceived quality sure will decline!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I sincerely hope hope the MM passes.

It’s exactly what SFH’s in N Arl deserve for creating a Democrat stranglehold on everything. This is what they voted for, this is what they created, and it’s amazingly awesome to watch all the phony liberals freak out over MM 😂😂

MM++ -- I am a SFH owner in N Arlington and support MM. Requiring SFH zoning has been shown to be historically racist. Let's fix that.

+1

I'd like to see more restrictions on new construction in general re: parking, trees, lot coverage, but that's not specific to MM. I'm good with MM itself.

-SFH owner in $$$ neighborhood

Let me tell you how this goes. First they pass the MM initiative so there's no restriction on multi-family housing. Next they have some kind of "opportunity" for affordable housing. Maybe a church is being redeveloped or someone donates some land, who knows. From there, it's a fairly easy process for them to allow bonus density, extra height, etc. because we "need the housing." All of the sudden there's an approved project that covers the entire lot and is twice as high as the zoning would otherwise allow.

Wouldn't happen? They did it in my neighborhood, they will do it in yours.

So you admit, that the fear is that undesirable not rich people will move in. And not only one or two of the, but a like 10 or more. The horror!
What happened to everyone is welcome here?

Oh fck off. I'm not rich. I have equity in my house. That's not realized until I sell. I bought my house when my salary was 65,000 and my wife's was 72,000. Zero help from our parents and 30,000 in student loan to boot. We bought what we could afford, where we could afford. Fck all this nonsense that it's racist that some 23 year old Hispanic dude can't own in Lyon Village while he cuts lawns for a living.

This is why people vote for Trump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I sincerely hope hope the MM passes.

It’s exactly what SFH’s in N Arl deserve for creating a Democrat stranglehold on everything. This is what they voted for, this is what they created, and it’s amazingly awesome to watch all the phony liberals freak out over MM 😂😂

MM++ -- I am a SFH owner in N Arlington and support MM. Requiring SFH zoning has been shown to be historically racist. Let's fix that.

+1

I'd like to see more restrictions on new construction in general re: parking, trees, lot coverage, but that's not specific to MM. I'm good with MM itself.

-SFH owner in $$$ neighborhood

Let me tell you how this goes. First they pass the MM initiative so there's no restriction on multi-family housing. Next they have some kind of "opportunity" for affordable housing. Maybe a church is being redeveloped or someone donates some land, who knows. From there, it's a fairly easy process for them to allow bonus density, extra height, etc. because we "need the housing." All of the sudden there's an approved project that covers the entire lot and is twice as high as the zoning would otherwise allow.

Wouldn't happen? They did it in my neighborhood, they will do it in yours.

So you admit, that the fear is that undesirable not rich people will move in. And not only one or two of the, but a like 10 or more. The horror!
What happened to everyone is welcome here?

Oh fck off. I'm not rich. I have equity in my house. That's not realized until I sell. I bought my house when my salary was 65,000 and my wife's was 72,000. Zero help from our parents and 30,000 in student loan to boot. We bought what we could afford, where we could afford. Fck all this nonsense that it's racist that some 23 year old Hispanic dude can't own in Lyon Village while he cuts lawns for a living.

This is why people vote for Trump.

+1. There are neighborhoods in Arlington that I’d love to live in and can’t afford. When I was 25 I couldn’t have afforded my current house. This sense that everyone should have whatever they want is ridiculous. We worked hard to afford this house and have built up equity with improvements we have done over the years within our budget.

Do I want a 6plex going in next door that will tank the value I’ve been working so hard for all these years because someone thinks they deserve to live in my neighborhood? No. It’s not racism; it’s economics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I sincerely hope hope the MM passes.

It’s exactly what SFH’s in N Arl deserve for creating a Democrat stranglehold on everything. This is what they voted for, this is what they created, and it’s amazingly awesome to watch all the phony liberals freak out over MM 😂😂

MM++ -- I am a SFH owner in N Arlington and support MM. Requiring SFH zoning has been shown to be historically racist. Let's fix that.

+1

I'd like to see more restrictions on new construction in general re: parking, trees, lot coverage, but that's not specific to MM. I'm good with MM itself.

-SFH owner in $$$ neighborhood

Let me tell you how this goes. First they pass the MM initiative so there's no restriction on multi-family housing. Next they have some kind of "opportunity" for affordable housing. Maybe a church is being redeveloped or someone donates some land, who knows. From there, it's a fairly easy process for them to allow bonus density, extra height, etc. because we "need the housing." All of the sudden there's an approved project that covers the entire lot and is twice as high as the zoning would otherwise allow.

Wouldn't happen? They did it in my neighborhood, they will do it in yours.

So you admit, that the fear is that undesirable not rich people will move in. And not only one or two of the, but a like 10 or more. The horror!
What happened to everyone is welcome here?

The problem is infrastructure. Schools, parks, sewer systems, parking, etc. Adding more people makes quality of life worse for people already here. The underlying assumption of increased density is that we should all just be fine with it and sacrifice for the cause.

The underlying principle for my support of MM is that people have to live somewhere and density is greener than sprawl. I care about what sort of planet I'm leaving for my children. People who think sprawl is A+++ total excellence can move out beyond the Beltway to enjoy big houses and big commutes.

ARL doesn't have sprawl. It has older neighborhoods with small lot SFH and others mixed. Take a drive from Herndon [south of the town] through Chantilly, Cville, etc. Loo like ARL? No.

Here's a multifamily unit-paved over almost 100% of land. 3 units -[2 bedrooms each?] so ? https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/1227-N-Utah-St-22201/home/11244058

So if that pave over is allowed and clearly exists, I guess ARL could do a triplex and allow pave over on this https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/1005-N-Madison-St-22205/home/11240858

I gasped at how ugly this is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I sincerely hope hope the MM passes.

It’s exactly what SFH’s in N Arl deserve for creating a Democrat stranglehold on everything. This is what they voted for, this is what they created, and it’s amazingly awesome to watch all the phony liberals freak out over MM 😂😂

MM++ -- I am a SFH owner in N Arlington and support MM. Requiring SFH zoning has been shown to be historically racist. Let's fix that.

+1

I'd like to see more restrictions on new construction in general re: parking, trees, lot coverage, but that's not specific to MM. I'm good with MM itself.

-SFH owner in $$$ neighborhood

+1 at least make front porches mandatory

Let me tell you how this goes. First they pass the MM initiative so there's no restriction on multi-family housing. Next they have some kind of "opportunity" for affordable housing. Maybe a church is being redeveloped or someone donates some land, who knows. From there, it's a fairly easy process for them to allow bonus density, extra height, etc. because we "need the housing." All of the sudden there's an approved project that covers the entire lot and is twice as high as the zoning would otherwise allow.

Wouldn't happen? They did it in my neighborhood, they will do it in yours.

So you admit, that the fear is that undesirable not rich people will move in. And not only one or two of the, but a like 10 or more. The horror!
What happened to everyone is welcome here?

The problem is infrastructure. Schools, parks, sewer systems, parking, etc. Adding more people makes quality of life worse for people already here. The underlying assumption of increased density is that we should all just be fine with it and sacrifice for the cause.

The underlying principle for my support of MM is that people have to live somewhere and density is greener than sprawl. I care about what sort of planet I'm leaving for my children. People who think sprawl is A+++ total excellence can move out beyond the Beltway to enjoy big houses and big commutes.

ARL doesn't have sprawl. It has older neighborhoods with small lot SFH and others mixed. Take a drive from Herndon [south of the town] through Chantilly, Cville, etc. Loo like ARL? No.

Here's a multifamily unit-paved over almost 100% of land. 3 units -[2 bedrooms each?] so ? https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/1227-N-Utah-St-22201/home/11244058

So if that pave over is allowed and clearly exists, I guess ARL could do a triplex and allow pave over on this https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/1005-N-Madison-St-22205/home/11240858

I gasped at how ugly this is.