Arlington Missing Middle Housing Q&A

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think many people assumed that MM developers would focus on areas near public transit or in locations that make sense for more density (e.g., walkable to a supermarket or on a major road). I think they also assumed that developers would build something reasonable to the location. Instead we're getting developers building the biggest possible thing they can with the most units possible without regard for the location. Below is a linkntk a 6plex that Arlington has permitted that in the middle of a neighborhood and that's not walkable to anything. To fit 6 units on the small lot, there will have to be no green space and the minimum required parking. Every adult living there will have a car given the location, with most of those cars being parked on the street.

Most people who live in apartments or condos appreciate being walkable to things. Those who live in non-walkable locations like having green space. This building will meet neither criteria. It's just developers cashing out at the cost to the community.

[/url]https://redf.in/Cqyjaf[url]

Of course they are. Why would anyone think this was going to turn out differently. And I never put much stock in the "oh, they can't build any bigger than a SFH". Well, Arlington doesn't seem inclined to actually enforce any existing setback/lot coverage/tree coverage requirements we already have for the massive SFHs. IMO, they should have kept it to 3 units max at at least 2 bedrooms if this was actually going to be "missing" housing types. We have plenty of 1-bedroom condos in Arlington, there is no reason to build a bunch of 6-plexes of them (with no parking) in SFH neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are putting our $1.5-1.6M SFH in North Arlignton on the market next month and I can only hope a developer will buy it and build a six-plex. My NIMBY limousine liberal neighbors all deserve it.

+1 Although my plan is to rent the house to the largest, most obnoxious Section 8 family I can find and then sell it to a plex builder after they trash it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there were a lot of issues with MM (the package that got passed, the lengthy yet shallow process, etc). But at the end of the day, we can just move if it's that bad. Arlington isn't the "be all end all." The schools are just ok to good-ish, the neighborhoods aren't very charming, and the only major positive is proximity to DC. I think people have really lost perspective. But I do understand the utter frustration with our county overlords. They aren't the sharpest tools in the shed for sure!

That's a really obnoxious thing to say. In addition to having built a community of friends in Arlington, many of us have invested into our homes. It's not that easy to "just move."

We happen to live next door to a gentleman who has lived in his home for almost 70 years. He's recently started having health problems. There's a very, very significant chance that his tiny house is going to be replaced by a 6plex in the next few years. So, do we stay in a home that we love and have spent a lot of money to remodel to our tastes and risk living next door to an apartment building? Do we risk the loss of privacy and quiet enjoyment of our yard? Do we risk the drop in our property value? Or do we move now and give up our interest rate and move our kids away from their friends? We'd been planning to stay in this house until our kids were in college, so probably another 15-20 years. It's literally a decision that affects if our leafy backyard remains private or is next door to a multistory apartment building.

I just hear whining. Should have lived further out

+1. If someone buys the lot it will be a multiplex or a new SFH, and all the trees will be cleared. You won't have a leafy private yard no matter what happens. Why are you so certain a 6 plex will get built anyway? Is this near metro or a busy road?

I love that people post snarky comments and then prove that they are clueless about MM. Why would you ask about busy roads or near a metro? You know that isn't in a requirements, right? There's no part of MM that focuses development in those locations, nor is that what's happening. Developers are building 4-6 unit apartment buildings in the middle of SFHs because they can.

If the MM housing is within a half mile of public transportation, such as Metro subway or buses on a busy road, the builder needs a half parking space per unit. Be careful of what is built, because you might have to do an ADA compliant unit and parking space that would require more room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many people assumed that MM developers would focus on areas near public transit or in locations that make sense for more density (e.g., walkable to a supermarket or on a major road). I think they also assumed that developers would build something reasonable to the location. Instead we're getting developers building the biggest possible thing they can with the most units possible without regard for the location. Below is a linkntk a 6plex that Arlington has permitted that in the middle of a neighborhood and that's not walkable to anything. To fit 6 units on the small lot, there will have to be no green space and the minimum required parking. Every adult living there will have a car given the location, with most of those cars being parked on the street.

Most people who live in apartments or condos appreciate being walkable to things. Those who live in non-walkable locations like having green space. This building will meet neither criteria. It's just developers cashing out at the cost to the community.

[/url]https://redf.in/Cqyjaf[url]

Of course they are. Why would anyone think this was going to turn out differently. And I never put much stock in the "oh, they can't build any bigger than a SFH". Well, Arlington doesn't seem inclined to actually enforce any existing setback/lot coverage/tree coverage requirements we already have for the massive SFHs. IMO, they should have kept it to 3 units max at at least 2 bedrooms if this was actually going to be "missing" housing types. We have plenty of 1-bedroom condos in Arlington, there is no reason to build a bunch of 6-plexes of them (with no parking) in SFH neighborhoods.

Says someone complete unfamiliar with setback/lot coverage requirements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there were a lot of issues with MM (the package that got passed, the lengthy yet shallow process, etc). But at the end of the day, we can just move if it's that bad. Arlington isn't the "be all end all." The schools are just ok to good-ish, the neighborhoods aren't very charming, and the only major positive is proximity to DC. I think people have really lost perspective. But I do understand the utter frustration with our county overlords. They aren't the sharpest tools in the shed for sure!

That's a really obnoxious thing to say. In addition to having built a community of friends in Arlington, many of us have invested into our homes. It's not that easy to "just move."

We happen to live next door to a gentleman who has lived in his home for almost 70 years. He's recently started having health problems. There's a very, very significant chance that his tiny house is going to be replaced by a 6plex in the next few years. So, do we stay in a home that we love and have spent a lot of money to remodel to our tastes and risk living next door to an apartment building? Do we risk the loss of privacy and quiet enjoyment of our yard? Do we risk the drop in our property value? Or do we move now and give up our interest rate and move our kids away from their friends? We'd been planning to stay in this house until our kids were in college, so probably another 15-20 years. It's literally a decision that affects if our leafy backyard remains private or is next door to a multistory apartment building.

I just hear whining. Should have lived further out

+1. If someone buys the lot it will be a multiplex or a new SFH, and all the trees will be cleared. You won't have a leafy private yard no matter what happens. Why are you so certain a 6 plex will get built anyway? Is this near metro or a busy road?

I love that people post snarky comments and then prove that they are clueless about MM. Why would you ask about busy roads or near a metro? You know that isn't in a requirements, right? There's no part of MM that focuses development in those locations, nor is that what's happening. Developers are building 4-6 unit apartment buildings in the middle of SFHs because they can.

I'm well aware of what passed. What I don't understand is why PP thinks there is a "very significant change" that a 6 plex will get built on a nearby lot. How could anyone know that with such certainty? I'm not being snarky, I don't want a 6 plex next door either but it's like anything else: we will move if the bad about Arlington outweighs the good. That's just how we feel.

It's a very privileged position not to have to worry about the costs of moving (financial, but also social emotional and on our time), as well as the immediate hit to our property value that comes as soon as a permit is granted for the lot next door.

Of course it's a privileged point of view. Most Arlington SFH owners are privileged, including us. We may not get our first choice of every scenario but we have options.

You, you I like. Someone is finally honest about the privileged lives of Arlington rather than trying to downplay their position!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://redf.in/Cqyjaf
Fixed link.

The schools aren't good in that neighborhood so maybe only older people will rent in the building and have only one car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are putting our $1.5-1.6M SFH in North Arlignton on the market next month and I can only hope a developer will buy it and build a six-plex. My NIMBY limousine liberal neighbors all deserve it.

+1 Although my plan is to rent the house to the largest, most obnoxious Section 8 family I can find and then sell it to a plex builder after they trash it.

You again? Sure, Jan. You are going to leave money on the table and risk all the extra hassle of renting section 8. You are terrible at trolling. You have to make there be at least a kernel of believability. Otherwise, people just roll their eyes at your nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://redf.in/Cqyjaf
Fixed link.

The schools aren't good in that neighborhood so maybe only older people will rent in the building and have only one car.

Well that's nonsense. They're above average for Arlington for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are putting our $1.5-1.6M SFH in North Arlignton on the market next month and I can only hope a developer will buy it and build a six-plex. My NIMBY limousine liberal neighbors all deserve it.

+1
DH and I have owned our SFH in Cherrydale on an average size lot for 25 years. When we bought, it was the largest house on the block but still had a large backyard by Arlington standards. Over the years almost all the houses around us have had huge additions put on or in more recent years been torn down and replaced with McMansions. Our house is now one of the smallest in the neighborhood and our backyard feels more like an enclosed courtyard, swallowed up thanks to the almost disappearance of our neighbors' backyards and trees. So when we retire and sell, I could care less what is built on our lot and given location, it will likely be a multiplex. As far as I am concerned my neighbors' additions and McMansions significantly effected the enjoyability of my home and increasing density in Arlington is inevitable.

[Anonymous]

I love how lots of people who claim to be Arlington homeowners think that MM will be a huge windfall for them because a builder is going to pay an astronomical sum for their land. If that's your plan, I would sell ASAP. I think there's a bit of a frenzy right now, and the future is uncertain at best.

Lots of factors could depress land values in the future including: (1) a market downtown, (2) success in court by those challenging MM, (3) difficulty selling or renting MM units due to location and/or oversupply, (4) too many homeowners flooding the market, (5) overcommitted builders, and (6) tighter lending standards.

If you want to sell, now is the time to do it while the euphoria among builders is at an all-time high before a single MM unit has even been constructed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love how lots of people who claim to be Arlington homeowners think that MM will be a huge windfall for them because a builder is going to pay an astronomical sum for their land. If that's your plan, I would sell ASAP. I think there's a bit of a frenzy right now, and the future is uncertain at best.

Lots of factors could depress land values in the future including: (1) a market downtown, (2) success in court by those challenging MM, (3) difficulty selling or renting MM units due to location and/or oversupply, (4) too many homeowners flooding the market, (5) overcommitted builders, and (6) tighter lending standards.

If you want to sell, now is the time to do it while the euphoria among builders is at an all-time high before a single MM unit has even been constructed.

I agree that there will be issues getting anything built due to loans. Big huge apartment buildings in Arlington are also getting delayed due to this issue. Everything is slowing down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are putting our $1.5-1.6M SFH in North Arlignton on the market next month and I can only hope a developer will buy it and build a six-plex. My NIMBY limousine liberal neighbors all deserve it.

+1 Although my plan is to rent the house to the largest, most obnoxious Section 8 family I can find and then sell it to a plex builder after they trash it.

You might find that Section 8 tenants are not that bad. We have rented my mom’s house in Arlington to a family of 8 who only have to pay 30% of the fair market rent. Because they need a 4 bed, we get a total of $3100 a month. This is about the same that we would get if it were rented to anyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think many people assumed that MM developers would focus on areas near public transit or in locations that make sense for more density (e.g., walkable to a supermarket or on a major road). I think they also assumed that developers would build something reasonable to the location. Instead we're getting developers building the biggest possible thing they can with the most units possible without regard for the location. Below is a linkntk a 6plex that Arlington has permitted that in the middle of a neighborhood and that's not walkable to anything. To fit 6 units on the small lot, there will have to be no green space and the minimum required parking. Every adult living there will have a car given the location, with most of those cars being parked on the street.

Most people who live in apartments or condos appreciate being walkable to things. Those who live in non-walkable locations like having green space. This building will meet neither criteria. It's just developers cashing out at the cost to the community.

[/url]https://redf.in/Cqyjaf[url]

Of course they are. Why would anyone think this was going to turn out differently. And I never put much stock in the "oh, they can't build any bigger than a SFH". Well, Arlington doesn't seem inclined to actually enforce any existing setback/lot coverage/tree coverage requirements we already have for the massive SFHs. IMO, they should have kept it to 3 units max at at least 2 bedrooms if this was actually going to be "missing" housing types. We have plenty of 1-bedroom condos in Arlington, there is no reason to build a bunch of 6-plexes of them (with no parking) in SFH neighborhoods.

Says someone complete unfamiliar with setback/lot coverage requirements.

says someone who doesn't realize Arlington just had to revoke an EHO permit because they couldn't be bothered to calculate lot coverage correctly before approving

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are putting our $1.5-1.6M SFH in North Arlignton on the market next month and I can only hope a developer will buy it and build a six-plex. My NIMBY limousine liberal neighbors all deserve it.

+1
DH and I have owned our SFH in Cherrydale on an average size lot for 25 years. When we bought, it was the largest house on the block but still had a large backyard by Arlington standards. Over the years almost all the houses around us have had huge additions put on or in more recent years been torn down and replaced with McMansions. Our house is now one of the smallest in the neighborhood and our backyard feels more like an enclosed courtyard, swallowed up thanks to the almost disappearance of our neighbors' backyards and trees. So when we retire and sell, I could care less what is built on our lot and given location, it will likely be a multiplex. As far as I am concerned my neighbors' additions and McMansions significantly effected the enjoyability of my home and increasing density in Arlington is inevitable.

This. You can’t complain about loss of trees and green space without complaining about the single-family monstrosities that have been going up for years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there were a lot of issues with MM (the package that got passed, the lengthy yet shallow process, etc). But at the end of the day, we can just move if it's that bad. Arlington isn't the "be all end all." The schools are just ok to good-ish, the neighborhoods aren't very charming, and the only major positive is proximity to DC. I think people have really lost perspective. But I do understand the utter frustration with our county overlords. They aren't the sharpest tools in the shed for sure!

That's a really obnoxious thing to say. In addition to having built a community of friends in Arlington, many of us have invested into our homes. It's not that easy to "just move."

We happen to live next door to a gentleman who has lived in his home for almost 70 years. He's recently started having health problems. There's a very, very significant chance that his tiny house is going to be replaced by a 6plex in the next few years. So, do we stay in a home that we love and have spent a lot of money to remodel to our tastes and risk living next door to an apartment building? Do we risk the loss of privacy and quiet enjoyment of our yard? Do we risk the drop in our property value? Or do we move now and give up our interest rate and move our kids away from their friends? We'd been planning to stay in this house until our kids were in college, so probably another 15-20 years. It's literally a decision that affects if our leafy backyard remains private or is next door to a multistory apartment building.

I just hear whining. Should have lived further out

+1. If someone buys the lot it will be a multiplex or a new SFH, and all the trees will be cleared. You won't have a leafy private yard no matter what happens. Why are you so certain a 6 plex will get built anyway? Is this near metro or a busy road?

I love that people post snarky comments and then prove that they are clueless about MM. Why would you ask about busy roads or near a metro? You know that isn't in a requirements, right? There's no part of MM that focuses development in those locations, nor is that what's happening. Developers are building 4-6 unit apartment buildings in the middle of SFHs because they can.

I'm well aware of what passed. What I don't understand is why PP thinks there is a "very significant change" that a 6 plex will get built on a nearby lot. How could anyone know that with such certainty? I'm not being snarky, I don't want a 6 plex next door either but it's like anything else: we will move if the bad about Arlington outweighs the good. That's just how we feel.

It's a very privileged position not to have to worry about the costs of moving (financial, but also social emotional and on our time), as well as the immediate hit to our property value that comes as soon as a permit is granted for the lot next door.

Of course it's a privileged point of view. Most Arlington SFH owners are privileged, including us. We may not get our first choice of every scenario but we have options.

You, you I like. Someone is finally honest about the privileged lives of Arlington rather than trying to downplay their position!!

Gotta keep it real. Don't love what passed and think it could have been crafted to encourage more ownership opportunities, but fine with jumping ship if this or any number of things makes Arlington less appealing.