Youngkin and TJ

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:tax returns

How could a school system possibly get access to tax returns?

Also wondering this. Does anyone know?

They could ask parents who want to be considered for ED preference to provide them?

The TJ admissions office is not set up to evaluate individual tax returns.

They don’t need to. Plenty of jealous people out here will tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:tax returns

How could a school system possibly get access to tax returns?

Also wondering this. Does anyone know?

They could ask parents who want to be considered for ED preference to provide them?

The TJ admissions office is not set up to evaluate individual tax returns.

They don’t need to. Plenty of jealous people out here will tell.

Maybe they could set up bounties like in Texas to rat out your neigbhors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like they have the time, money and wherewithal to address this properly, lol.

Gaming the system wins often.

Money always wins.

It will probably catch up to them

In the case of TJ over the past decade a lot of families have been able to buy admission by spending tens of thousands at the various prep centers. One even boasted that 30% of the incoming class attended their center. THe problem is this makes often average kids seem gifted and once they're there it starts to cause problems. It has helped foster the toxicity that people are always talking about.

I love how people mask their racism by using a term like “toxicity” instead.

This is a nice try, but if you have been around TJ for any length of time you know that its unique brand of toxicity long predates the dominance by South Asians.

Toxicity at TJ takes the form of:

1) A slavish obsession with elite college admissions
2) Constant comparison between students
3) A belief that TJ students are inherently better than everyone else
4) A belief that TJ should be entirely populated with only students who are completely STEM-focused and are certain at the age of 12-13 that they intend to pursue a career in STEM

These attitudes around TJ have ALWAYS existed and are by no means particular to Asians or even South Asians.

People who insist that “toxicity” is a surrogate for “Asian-ness” betray their lack of understanding of TJ’s history and are not to be taken seriously.

I'm not seeing the connection between your complaint about testing centers and the alleged toxicity.

It seems that kids who prepped for TJ may have greater humility and might be more likely to believe they got there through hard work and preparation, rather than some inherent advantage.

Conversely, now that FCPS is guaranteeing slots at TJ to a minimum number of students from every middle school, it's entirely possible that comparisons between those who got in from the more rigorous middle schools and the less rigorous ones will increase.

And there's no reason to think that TJ won't continue to have students who believe they are "inherently better than everyone else." If anything, the School Board seems to embrace that mindset, while just wanting to make sure that more Black, brown, and low-income kids are the ones espousing it.

So I'm not taking you seriously, since you constantly claim to have some inside edge when it comes to understanding TJ's culture, while simultaneously pushing your own set of stereotypes based on assumptions that are anything but compelling.

That sounds wrong. The idea that some middle schools are more rigorous is flawed. They're about the same with the same teachers and curriculum. The difference is mainly wealthier areas send their darlings to $10k test prep classes which makes them present as gifted when more often than not the majority of these kids would test lower than their peers from the "less rigorous" schools without all the outside enrichment that they've been given. This leads to many kids being admitted who don't have the ability to thrive at places like TJ and causes the toxicity.

lol Look at the SOL scores. You are such a clown.

I did and the PP was right. The vast majority of the overprepped kids from the wealthy schools are just mediocre whereas the less affluent kids who've managed to succeed show far greater promise.

Shhhh, there are parents who hate it when you point this truth out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like they have the time, money and wherewithal to address this properly, lol.

Gaming the system wins often.

Money always wins.

It will probably catch up to them

In the case of TJ over the past decade a lot of families have been able to buy admission by spending tens of thousands at the various prep centers. One even boasted that 30% of the incoming class attended their center. THe problem is this makes often average kids seem gifted and once they're there it starts to cause problems. It has helped foster the toxicity that people are always talking about.

I love how people mask their racism by using a term like “toxicity” instead.

This is a nice try, but if you have been around TJ for any length of time you know that its unique brand of toxicity long predates the dominance by South Asians.

Toxicity at TJ takes the form of:

1) A slavish obsession with elite college admissions
2) Constant comparison between students
3) A belief that TJ students are inherently better than everyone else
4) A belief that TJ should be entirely populated with only students who are completely STEM-focused and are certain at the age of 12-13 that they intend to pursue a career in STEM

These attitudes around TJ have ALWAYS existed and are by no means particular to Asians or even South Asians.

People who insist that “toxicity” is a surrogate for “Asian-ness” betray their lack of understanding of TJ’s history and are not to be taken seriously.

I'm not seeing the connection between your complaint about testing centers and the alleged toxicity.

It seems that kids who prepped for TJ may have greater humility and might be more likely to believe they got there through hard work and preparation, rather than some inherent advantage.

Conversely, now that FCPS is guaranteeing slots at TJ to a minimum number of students from every middle school, it's entirely possible that comparisons between those who got in from the more rigorous middle schools and the less rigorous ones will increase.

And there's no reason to think that TJ won't continue to have students who believe they are "inherently better than everyone else." If anything, the School Board seems to embrace that mindset, while just wanting to make sure that more Black, brown, and low-income kids are the ones espousing it.

So I'm not taking you seriously, since you constantly claim to have some inside edge when it comes to understanding TJ's culture, while simultaneously pushing your own set of stereotypes based on assumptions that are anything but compelling.

That sounds wrong. The idea that some middle schools are more rigorous is flawed. They're about the same with the same teachers and curriculum. The difference is mainly wealthier areas send their darlings to $10k test prep classes which makes them present as gifted when more often than not the majority of these kids would test lower than their peers from the "less rigorous" schools without all the outside enrichment that they've been given. This leads to many kids being admitted who don't have the ability to thrive at places like TJ and causes the toxicity.

lol Look at the SOL scores. You are such a clown.

I did and the PP was right. The vast majority of the overprepped kids from the wealthy schools are just mediocre whereas the less affluent kids who've managed to succeed show far greater promise.

Shhhh, there are parents who hate it when you point this truth out.

Stop. Just stop. You are calling a bunch of canards "the truth." What exactly is an "overprepped kid" versus a gifted kid that preps? What exactly is a "wealthy school" and what if you are not wealthy and attend that school? What do you mean by "mediocre" and how is that measured and compared to who and what? What makes you "less affluent" and does it matter where you go to school? And what exactly do you mean by "far greater promise" - some aspirational and subjective wish versus actual results?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like they have the time, money and wherewithal to address this properly, lol.

Gaming the system wins often.

Money always wins.

It will probably catch up to them

In the case of TJ over the past decade a lot of families have been able to buy admission by spending tens of thousands at the various prep centers. One even boasted that 30% of the incoming class attended their center. THe problem is this makes often average kids seem gifted and once they're there it starts to cause problems. It has helped foster the toxicity that people are always talking about.

I love how people mask their racism by using a term like “toxicity” instead.

This is a nice try, but if you have been around TJ for any length of time you know that its unique brand of toxicity long predates the dominance by South Asians.

Toxicity at TJ takes the form of:

1) A slavish obsession with elite college admissions
2) Constant comparison between students
3) A belief that TJ students are inherently better than everyone else
4) A belief that TJ should be entirely populated with only students who are completely STEM-focused and are certain at the age of 12-13 that they intend to pursue a career in STEM

These attitudes around TJ have ALWAYS existed and are by no means particular to Asians or even South Asians.

People who insist that “toxicity” is a surrogate for “Asian-ness” betray their lack of understanding of TJ’s history and are not to be taken seriously.

I'm not seeing the connection between your complaint about testing centers and the alleged toxicity.

It seems that kids who prepped for TJ may have greater humility and might be more likely to believe they got there through hard work and preparation, rather than some inherent advantage.

Conversely, now that FCPS is guaranteeing slots at TJ to a minimum number of students from every middle school, it's entirely possible that comparisons between those who got in from the more rigorous middle schools and the less rigorous ones will increase.

And there's no reason to think that TJ won't continue to have students who believe they are "inherently better than everyone else." If anything, the School Board seems to embrace that mindset, while just wanting to make sure that more Black, brown, and low-income kids are the ones espousing it.

So I'm not taking you seriously, since you constantly claim to have some inside edge when it comes to understanding TJ's culture, while simultaneously pushing your own set of stereotypes based on assumptions that are anything but compelling.

That sounds wrong. The idea that some middle schools are more rigorous is flawed. They're about the same with the same teachers and curriculum. The difference is mainly wealthier areas send their darlings to $10k test prep classes which makes them present as gifted when more often than not the majority of these kids would test lower than their peers from the "less rigorous" schools without all the outside enrichment that they've been given. This leads to many kids being admitted who don't have the ability to thrive at places like TJ and causes the toxicity.

lol Look at the SOL scores. You are such a clown.

I did and the PP was right. The vast majority of the overprepped kids from the wealthy schools are just mediocre whereas the less affluent kids who've managed to succeed show far greater promise.

Shhhh, there are parents who hate it when you point this truth out.

Stop. Just stop. You are calling a bunch of canards "the truth." What exactly is an "overprepped kid" versus a gifted kid that preps? What exactly is a "wealthy school" and what if you are not wealthy and attend that school? What do you mean by "mediocre" and how is that measured and compared to who and what? What makes you "less affluent" and does it matter where you go to school? And what exactly do you mean by "far greater promise" - some aspirational and subjective wish versus actual results?

Tryly gifted children don't require prep. It's strictly for the strivers.

[Anonymous]

You could say that about TJ as a whole, yet the TJ AAG types clearly were heavily invested in "diversifying" TJ when the real equity move would have been to disband it entirely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You could say that about TJ as a whole, yet the TJ AAG types clearly were heavily invested in "diversifying" TJ when the real equity move would have been to disband it entirely.

Just so you know, wishful thinking almost never comes true.

Didn't happen under a dem guv. Ain't happening under a Republican.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like they have the time, money and wherewithal to address this properly, lol.

Gaming the system wins often.

Money always wins.

It will probably catch up to them

In the case of TJ over the past decade a lot of families have been able to buy admission by spending tens of thousands at the various prep centers. One even boasted that 30% of the incoming class attended their center. THe problem is this makes often average kids seem gifted and once they're there it starts to cause problems. It has helped foster the toxicity that people are always talking about.

I love how people mask their racism by using a term like “toxicity” instead.

This is a nice try, but if you have been around TJ for any length of time you know that its unique brand of toxicity long predates the dominance by South Asians.

Toxicity at TJ takes the form of:

1) A slavish obsession with elite college admissions
2) Constant comparison between students
3) A belief that TJ students are inherently better than everyone else
4) A belief that TJ should be entirely populated with only students who are completely STEM-focused and are certain at the age of 12-13 that they intend to pursue a career in STEM

These attitudes around TJ have ALWAYS existed and are by no means particular to Asians or even South Asians.

People who insist that “toxicity” is a surrogate for “Asian-ness” betray their lack of understanding of TJ’s history and are not to be taken seriously.

I'm not seeing the connection between your complaint about testing centers and the alleged toxicity.

It seems that kids who prepped for TJ may have greater humility and might be more likely to believe they got there through hard work and preparation, rather than some inherent advantage.

Conversely, now that FCPS is guaranteeing slots at TJ to a minimum number of students from every middle school, it's entirely possible that comparisons between those who got in from the more rigorous middle schools and the less rigorous ones will increase.

And there's no reason to think that TJ won't continue to have students who believe they are "inherently better than everyone else." If anything, the School Board seems to embrace that mindset, while just wanting to make sure that more Black, brown, and low-income kids are the ones espousing it.

So I'm not taking you seriously, since you constantly claim to have some inside edge when it comes to understanding TJ's culture, while simultaneously pushing your own set of stereotypes based on assumptions that are anything but compelling.

That sounds wrong. The idea that some middle schools are more rigorous is flawed. They're about the same with the same teachers and curriculum. The difference is mainly wealthier areas send their darlings to $10k test prep classes which makes them present as gifted when more often than not the majority of these kids would test lower than their peers from the "less rigorous" schools without all the outside enrichment that they've been given. This leads to many kids being admitted who don't have the ability to thrive at places like TJ and causes the toxicity.

lol Look at the SOL scores. You are such a clown.

I did and the PP was right. The vast majority of the overprepped kids from the wealthy schools are just mediocre whereas the less affluent kids who've managed to succeed show far greater promise.

Shhhh, there are parents who hate it when you point this truth out.

Stop. Just stop. You are calling a bunch of canards "the truth." What exactly is an "overprepped kid" versus a gifted kid that preps? What exactly is a "wealthy school" and what if you are not wealthy and attend that school? What do you mean by "mediocre" and how is that measured and compared to who and what? What makes you "less affluent" and does it matter where you go to school? And what exactly do you mean by "far greater promise" - some aspirational and subjective wish versus actual results?

Tryly gifted children don't require prep. It's strictly for the strivers.

And.. what's wrong with striving? Are you raising your kids to be slackers? Training them to live off the strivers maybe? What's your game plan? It's the strivers that build the world and society you mooch off of... Not some random geniuses or slackers (like your kids will be, based on your disdain for strivers).

[Anonymous]

Striver could be used to describe kids look look after younger siblings until their parent(s) get home from work. It could describe those who work minimum wage jobs after school to pay the household bills. Those are activities that hinder being able to do extra prep for a school that none of your community go to and you can’t afford the bus or extra commuting time required to attend anyway.

Prep is fine but for a public education access should be equally accessible to all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Striver could be used to describe kids look look after younger siblings until their parent(s) get home from work. It could describe those who work minimum wage jobs after school to pay the household bills. Those are activities that hinder being able to do extra prep for a school that none of your community go to and you can’t afford the bus or extra commuting time required to attend anyway.

Prep is fine but for a public education access should be equally accessible to all.

Fine. Then for kids that just aren't that bright - what do we do for them? Since it should be equally accessible to all, it sounds like you are advocating for a lottery with no minimum requirements. A lottery will also help provide equal access for the lazy kids too. Great plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like they have the time, money and wherewithal to address this properly, lol.

Gaming the system wins often.

Money always wins.

It will probably catch up to them

In the case of TJ over the past decade a lot of families have been able to buy admission by spending tens of thousands at the various prep centers. One even boasted that 30% of the incoming class attended their center. THe problem is this makes often average kids seem gifted and once they're there it starts to cause problems. It has helped foster the toxicity that people are always talking about.

I love how people mask their racism by using a term like “toxicity” instead.

This is a nice try, but if you have been around TJ for any length of time you know that its unique brand of toxicity long predates the dominance by South Asians.

Toxicity at TJ takes the form of:

1) A slavish obsession with elite college admissions
2) Constant comparison between students
3) A belief that TJ students are inherently better than everyone else
4) A belief that TJ should be entirely populated with only students who are completely STEM-focused and are certain at the age of 12-13 that they intend to pursue a career in STEM

These attitudes around TJ have ALWAYS existed and are by no means particular to Asians or even South Asians.

People who insist that “toxicity” is a surrogate for “Asian-ness” betray their lack of understanding of TJ’s history and are not to be taken seriously.

I'm not seeing the connection between your complaint about testing centers and the alleged toxicity.

It seems that kids who prepped for TJ may have greater humility and might be more likely to believe they got there through hard work and preparation, rather than some inherent advantage.

Conversely, now that FCPS is guaranteeing slots at TJ to a minimum number of students from every middle school, it's entirely possible that comparisons between those who got in from the more rigorous middle schools and the less rigorous ones will increase.

And there's no reason to think that TJ won't continue to have students who believe they are "inherently better than everyone else." If anything, the School Board seems to embrace that mindset, while just wanting to make sure that more Black, brown, and low-income kids are the ones espousing it.

So I'm not taking you seriously, since you constantly claim to have some inside edge when it comes to understanding TJ's culture, while simultaneously pushing your own set of stereotypes based on assumptions that are anything but compelling.

That sounds wrong. The idea that some middle schools are more rigorous is flawed. They're about the same with the same teachers and curriculum. The difference is mainly wealthier areas send their darlings to $10k test prep classes which makes them present as gifted when more often than not the majority of these kids would test lower than their peers from the "less rigorous" schools without all the outside enrichment that they've been given. This leads to many kids being admitted who don't have the ability to thrive at places like TJ and causes the toxicity.

lol Look at the SOL scores. You are such a clown.

I did and the PP was right. The vast majority of the overprepped kids from the wealthy schools are just mediocre whereas the less affluent kids who've managed to succeed show far greater promise.

Shhhh, there are parents who hate it when you point this truth out.

Stop. Just stop. You are calling a bunch of canards "the truth." What exactly is an "overprepped kid" versus a gifted kid that preps? What exactly is a "wealthy school" and what if you are not wealthy and attend that school? What do you mean by "mediocre" and how is that measured and compared to who and what? What makes you "less affluent" and does it matter where you go to school? And what exactly do you mean by "far greater promise" - some aspirational and subjective wish versus actual results?

Tryly gifted children don't require prep. It's strictly for the strivers.

Not sure what a "striver" is, but I assume you mean hard working children that work to close the ability gap. We certainly reward strivers in sports, music, etc. - basically anywhere merit is a measure. Not sure a "striver" needs prep, but maybe that want to bust ass and leave no doubt that they belong by doing the best they can do and "striving" to crush the admissions test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Striver could be used to describe kids look look after younger siblings until their parent(s) get home from work. It could describe those who work minimum wage jobs after school to pay the household bills. Those are activities that hinder being able to do extra prep for a school that none of your community go to and you can’t afford the bus or extra commuting time required to attend anyway.

Prep is fine but for a public education access should be equally accessible to all.

I agree with that. Problem is how to provide an "elite" education for free for everyone that qualifies. We will need many more TJs for this to happen. More tax if need be (I'm willing to pay). However, that's unlikely to happen. So the fight for limited resources will continue. As you point out, some of the strivers (as you define it) unfortunately cannot attend TJ given the extra time commitment. So why the hatred from folks against parents/kids that can make it happen for their kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Striver could be used to describe kids look look after younger siblings until their parent(s) get home from work. It could describe those who work minimum wage jobs after school to pay the household bills. Those are activities that hinder being able to do extra prep for a school that none of your community go to and you can’t afford the bus or extra commuting time required to attend anyway.

Prep is fine but for a public education access should be equally accessible to all.

It would appear that current school system logic is that families of poor students do not have the same time or focus to devote to studies as average students. Therefore, a metric (GPA) which is based primarily on devoting time and focus to studies will put poor students at a relative advantage.

It wouldn't be controversial to say that the new system successfully does one thing: it uses criteria that's sufficiently non-discerning, that the the candidate pool is broad and thus selection by population distribution is possible.

I do not believe that the new system can successfully distinguish which students have inflated their GPA through blow-off classes.
I do not believe that the new system is better at distinguishing students who have above-and-beyond intellectual intuition.
I do not believe that the new system emphasizes things in the right way to allow students to succeed if they are poor but measurably smarter than everyone else (I say this as someone with parents who were in this category).
I do not believe that the new system sufficiently precludes selecting people based on preferential personal politics and ability to tell a good sob story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Striver could be used to describe kids look look after younger siblings until their parent(s) get home from work. It could describe those who work minimum wage jobs after school to pay the household bills. Those are activities that hinder being able to do extra prep for a school that none of your community go to and you can’t afford the bus or extra commuting time required to attend anyway.

Prep is fine but for a public education access should be equally accessible to all.

I agree with that. Problem is how to provide an "elite" education for free for everyone that qualifies. We will need many more TJs for this to happen. More tax if need be (I'm willing to pay). However, that's unlikely to happen. So the fight for limited resources will continue. As you point out, some of the strivers (as you define it) unfortunately cannot attend TJ given the extra time commitment. So why the hatred from folks against parents/kids that can make it happen for their kids?

The hatred is because they are Asian or White.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like they have the time, money and wherewithal to address this properly, lol.

Gaming the system wins often.

Money always wins.

It will probably catch up to them

In the case of TJ over the past decade a lot of families have been able to buy admission by spending tens of thousands at the various prep centers. One even boasted that 30% of the incoming class attended their center. THe problem is this makes often average kids seem gifted and once they're there it starts to cause problems. It has helped foster the toxicity that people are always talking about.

I love how people mask their racism by using a term like “toxicity” instead.

This is a nice try, but if you have been around TJ for any length of time you know that its unique brand of toxicity long predates the dominance by South Asians.

Toxicity at TJ takes the form of:

1) A slavish obsession with elite college admissions
2) Constant comparison between students
3) A belief that TJ students are inherently better than everyone else
4) A belief that TJ should be entirely populated with only students who are completely STEM-focused and are certain at the age of 12-13 that they intend to pursue a career in STEM

These attitudes around TJ have ALWAYS existed and are by no means particular to Asians or even South Asians.

People who insist that “toxicity” is a surrogate for “Asian-ness” betray their lack of understanding of TJ’s history and are not to be taken seriously.

I'm not seeing the connection between your complaint about testing centers and the alleged toxicity.

It seems that kids who prepped for TJ may have greater humility and might be more likely to believe they got there through hard work and preparation, rather than some inherent advantage.

Conversely, now that FCPS is guaranteeing slots at TJ to a minimum number of students from every middle school, it's entirely possible that comparisons between those who got in from the more rigorous middle schools and the less rigorous ones will increase.

And there's no reason to think that TJ won't continue to have students who believe they are "inherently better than everyone else." If anything, the School Board seems to embrace that mindset, while just wanting to make sure that more Black, brown, and low-income kids are the ones espousing it.

So I'm not taking you seriously, since you constantly claim to have some inside edge when it comes to understanding TJ's culture, while simultaneously pushing your own set of stereotypes based on assumptions that are anything but compelling.

That sounds wrong. The idea that some middle schools are more rigorous is flawed. They're about the same with the same teachers and curriculum. The difference is mainly wealthier areas send their darlings to $10k test prep classes which makes them present as gifted when more often than not the majority of these kids would test lower than their peers from the "less rigorous" schools without all the outside enrichment that they've been given. This leads to many kids being admitted who don't have the ability to thrive at places like TJ and causes the toxicity.

lol Look at the SOL scores. You are such a clown.

I did and the PP was right. The vast majority of the overprepped kids from the wealthy schools are just mediocre whereas the less affluent kids who've managed to succeed show far greater promise.

Shhhh, there are parents who hate it when you point this truth out.

Stop. Just stop. You are calling a bunch of canards "the truth." What exactly is an "overprepped kid" versus a gifted kid that preps? What exactly is a "wealthy school" and what if you are not wealthy and attend that school? What do you mean by "mediocre" and how is that measured and compared to who and what? What makes you "less affluent" and does it matter where you go to school? And what exactly do you mean by "far greater promise" - some aspirational and subjective wish versus actual results?

Tryly gifted children don't require prep. It's strictly for the strivers.

Tell that to all the national math and science contest winners, or even to the average USAMO qualifier. They must have done it all without trying because they are so gifted!

The quicker you discard "gifted children" from your vocabulary, the farther you will go in life.