Youngkin and TJ

[Anonymous]

What’s the issue with taking the top 1.5% of each MS?

Seems like we’d end up with a highly-qualified cohort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This is called "a healthy work-life balance". Second-generation Asian-Americans largely believe in it, because we know what happened to us and our friends as children.

PP here. I don't disagree with you. For my own kids, practicing their musical instrument 30 minutes/day is plenty. If they routinely had more than 2 hours of homework per night, I'd be encouraging them to drop down from at least AP/Honors classes. If I thought my kids would be in the bottom half of TJ, I'd discourage them from applying because it would be too much work. My kid is strongly into math contests, practices somewhat, and then loses to the Asian kids who practice more while my kid is playing video games. I'm totally fine with all of that. But, the natural result of that is that there are (primarily Asian) kids who have worked harder and are thus more advanced than mine. I don't begrudge them that, nor do I expect my kids to be selected for things like TJ or orchestra over these kids. They chose to prioritize TJ and academics. My family didn't. It's all fine.

See, and that's great for you and your family. I really appreciate your perspective on this.

What I have a problem with is an admissions process that incentivizes unhealthy behaviors and an early streamlining of academic priorities with children who are 11 and 12 years old. There are children who display exceptional natural ability at those ages in particular areas, and that's wonderful and should be nurtured.

But what I see in practice in Northern Virginia are too many parents who envy those children with those exceptional natural abilities and will spare no expense or resource to pose their child as one with those same abilities. And then I see them get to TJ and have to stay up until all hours of the night, forsake all of the things that give them joy, AND spare even greater expense in outside tutoring in order for them to still end up in the bottom third of their class, miserable with their experience, and disappointed when they end up at VCU or Ohio State.

So what I don't want is for the admissions process in its final form (which I hope it is not yet) to confer advantages to people for posing their kids as something they're not. And I've watched it happen for too long.

Where are you getting this from? My oldest went to TJ, played a travel sport, and never stayed up past midnight. He's at a T20 school. Will there be kids in the bottom 1/3rd of TJ! Of course? That's the law of numbers. But guess what? Regardless of where those kids end up, they are more than prepared to kick ass.

Also, until the state delegates parenting rights of those kids to you, you have no say in how those parents raise their kids. NONE WHATSOEVER. STFU and move on.

Oh, and here's the other point. Of course I have no say in how these parents raise their kids. You have a right to do whatever the hell you want with your kids.

But if we're here to talk about TJ in a thread entitled "Youngkin and TJ", I'm going to advocate for an admissions process that DOES NOT incentivize streamlining a child's path at the age of 11 for admission to the crown jewel of Virginia's public education system.

I'm going to advocate for an admissions process that DOES NOT have children crying inconsolably outside of Rocky Run Middle School on the day of the exam both on their way in AND on their way out.

I'm going to advocate for an admissions process that DOES NOT confer an advantage to a parent who decides to spend $5K on a course that teaches their child the tricks that the exam is evaluating their ability to come up with on their own.

And I'm going to advocate for an admissions process that DOES NOT create a cocoon of parents that seem to think that their approach to parenting is the only one that has any right to a seat at an exceptional public high school.

Advocate all you want. Good luck at the next school board elections.

It will be a blood bath for all of them.

[Anonymous]

We do have ED from a prior year:
https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/TJ%20admitted%20class%202016.editdocx.pdf

333 applicants (11.6% of total)
10 (2.1% of total)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What’s the issue with taking the top 1.5% of each MS?

Seems like we’d end up with a highly-qualified cohort.

I think it's an awesome idea, providing that you have a comprehensive enough application that you can even identify the top 1.5%. The current process is not it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We do have ED from a prior year:
https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/TJ%20admitted%20class%202016.editdocx.pdf

333 applicants (11.6% of total)
10 (2.1% of total)

~20% of all FCPS kids applied
~9% of kids from ED families applied

16.8% overall admit rate
3% ED admit rate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the issue with taking the top 1.5% of each MS?

Seems like we’d end up with a highly-qualified cohort.

I think it's an awesome idea, providing that you have a comprehensive enough application that you can even identify the top 1.5%. The current process is not it.

I'll tell you - I'm probably the loudest pro-reform advocate on here, but you're right. I vastly prefer it to what we had before, but the process definitely needs some additional factors in it.

I would advocate for a re-engineered teacher recommendation form first and foremost, that emphasizes the student's total contribution to the classroom.

I would be okay with optional exam submissions too, to be honest. Took the SHSAT? Submit that! Want to submit your Cogats or SOLs? Sure! And layer those in as a piece of the application. That would give the Admissions Committee an opportunity to identify and take some students who are exceptional exam performers but whose communication skills might be a little lacking or are too shy to be ready to contribute in class. It's one way to circumvent the problem of exams being expensive for districts to assess.

And of course, I would ensure that SPS questions include a discussion of a student's proudest STEM achievement, but also their proudest non-STEM achievement. TJ is a better place when students are able to find their niche.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We do have ED from a prior year:
https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/TJ%20admitted%20class%202016.editdocx.pdf

333 applicants (11.6% of total)
10 (2.1% of total)

Pretty good detective work. Nice job!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do have ED from a prior year:
https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/TJ%20admitted%20class%202016.editdocx.pdf

333 applicants (11.6% of total)
10 (2.1% of total)

Pretty good detective work. Nice job!

$49,800 per year for family of 4 will make the student from such family ineligible for farms but that ain’t wealthy or privileged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do have ED from a prior year:
https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/TJ%20admitted%20class%202016.editdocx.pdf

333 applicants (11.6% of total)
10 (2.1% of total)

Pretty good detective work. Nice job!

$49,800 per year for family of 4 will make the student from such family ineligible for farms but that ain’t wealthy or privileged.

Of course. If you have more data on incomes/applicants that would be helpful, but we're just working with the data that we have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We do have ED from a prior year:
https://www.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/TJ%20admitted%20class%202016.editdocx.pdf

333 applicants (11.6% of total)
10 (2.1% of total)

~20% of all FCPS kids applied
~9% of kids from ED families applied

16.8% overall admit rate
3% ED admit rate

Looking a little more at who was applying and who was admitted...

For the 2016 admissions cycle:
~20% of all FCPS 8th graders applied (2868/14000)
~3% of all 8th graders were admitted (483/14000)
16.8% admit rate

Asian:
~54% of 8th graders from Asian families applied (1518/(14000*20%))
~12% of 8th graders from Asian families were admitted (335/(14000*20%))
52.9% of applicants
22% admit rate
69.4% of admitted class

Economically Disadvantaged:
~9% of 8th graders from ED families applied (333/(14000*27%))
~0.2% of 8th graders from ED families were admitted (10/(14000*27%))
11.6% of applicants
3% admit rate
2.1% of admitted class


Disclaimers:
I made a couple of assumptions but since we are looking at relative %s and used them consistently so shouldn't throw things off too much.
all applicants were FCPS
14000 8th graders in 2016
20% kids from Asian families
27% kids from ED families

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the issue with taking the top 1.5% of each MS?

Seems like we’d end up with a highly-qualified cohort.

I think it's an awesome idea, providing that you have a comprehensive enough application that you can even identify the top 1.5%. The current process is not it.

I'll tell you - I'm probably the loudest pro-reform advocate on here, but you're right. I vastly prefer it to what we had before, but the process definitely needs some additional factors in it.

I would advocate for a re-engineered teacher recommendation form first and foremost, that emphasizes the student's total contribution to the classroom.

I would be okay with optional exam submissions too, to be honest. Took the SHSAT? Submit that! Want to submit your Cogats or SOLs? Sure! And layer those in as a piece of the application. That would give the Admissions Committee an opportunity to identify and take some students who are exceptional exam performers but whose communication skills might be a little lacking or are too shy to be ready to contribute in class. It's one way to circumvent the problem of exams being expensive for districts to assess.

And of course, I would ensure that SPS questions include a discussion of a student's proudest STEM achievement, but also their proudest non-STEM achievement. TJ is a better place when students are able to find their niche.

On your last comment, I think non-STEM achievements are fair to consider, but TJ should maintain top priority on STEM by far. Students who are not top-tier STEM achievers should be able to find their niche elsewhere. For example, if the Lewis Leadership Academy takes off and succeeds, that should be the type of program that humanities-focused students could aim for.

[Anonymous]

I wish we had the FCPS only numbers. LCPS has a decent number of seats, and almost all of them will be claimed by UMC Asians. I would imagine that the APS admits are also affluent, but maybe a bit whiter. This will skew the numbers a little.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What’s the issue with taking the top 1.5% of each MS?

Seems like we’d end up with a highly-qualified cohort.

I'm OK with that since it is a public school. However, no bonus for experience factors and FARMS etc. and let the actual top 1.5% go to TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the issue with taking the top 1.5% of each MS?

Seems like we’d end up with a highly-qualified cohort.

I'm OK with that since it is a public school. However, no bonus for experience factors and FARMS etc. and let the actual top 1.5% go to TJ.

That makes sense

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wish we had the FCPS only numbers. LCPS has a decent number of seats, and almost all of them will be claimed by UMC Asians. I would imagine that the APS admits are also affluent, but maybe a bit whiter. This will skew the numbers a little.

Loudoun County's TJ delegation is approximately 90% Asian every year. Overwhelmingly Indian.